Cooperation agreement on july test in two thousand to take the relationship is now even closer. On todays program where can i get to have mrs stephen pate and whos the director of the new zealand industry and commerce and Industry Office heating taipei taiwan to share with us to stay off the bow tied to relations between new zealand and taiwan. Well come to provo and stephen thank you very much thank you for having me on your program and im delighted to get to talk to. Many people around the world about what new zealand and taiwan to be doing to get the recently yes and this silly thing applies here too happy on the program and then the one that sweet discuss those new zealand has always had a very close relationship with how one instance of tree comers Investment Education culture many areas. But neil gillis issued two landmark agreement Economic Cooperation between the two sides. Bill was signed on to like ten in two thousand and eight. And the name of the agreement is called the agreement between new zealand and the separate customs territory of the Taiwan Police who came in and matsui on Economic Cooperation while and stacked the show. What is the significance of signing up this Economic Cooperation thank you very much is that denying that the u s trade data to now full to the base is coated and stick to it at its worst its been a mainstay is certainly a significant development. For new zealand and taiwan. In forever nice to sit together tom. A mistake as both economic and political significance. Okay i think ultimately economically its probably more significant for new zealand than in taiwan not because taiwan is such a big mac at Telecom New Zealand compared to the small black and a single review of the open market and bought it its its called Economic Significance of both of us and optimistically that i won of course its very significant because its the first such agreement that taiwan has been able to negotiate with an oecd member and economy out with that economy that is the state have formal diplomatic relations with taiwan and so do it with minutes to open up a pot and a pathway to protect others can follow the most sickening have done it weve done something thats very significant for but for this years and will stand the negotiation has taken place for the past few years and also lee was conducted in such a way that was scary how long did it the pto Legal Framework and which is the dead will be as neil some local folk model for other countries that might be interested in signing something similar the Economic Cooperation agreement with taiwan. Hell meet me to consider when even anyone in the future of sydney we had to find a way of doing this because in the absence of formal government cup and relations in and out we couldnt use to the normal approach. For the sorts of trade agreements or Economic Cooperation agreements in the end of the park later we found was to negotiate as steward of the tm in this because we have both nimbus of the wto that night and the sorts of agreements. Ive generally it negotiated in terms of wto rules and they refer to the wto standards and wto approaches so it was in that role. Mean mean that all Legal Framework to it all and then use havent succeeded. Using this methodology has a twitter this is them. When approached about this stuff up on next thing im not thinking about it may not be the anyway as of the taiwan can negotiate with another economy in the future for the sydney now we proved it one way ok and will extended negotiations taking the number of years. The lse human eye it mean that defra said he had discussed about this. And in the league in on the fact is they give us the pain you know periods of points being the negotiation process. There were some differences between the two sides for example on this fee settlement. And then go with dinner at the moment or moments that the two sides held that he wears heels really too far apart on the species that though we know how the people have problems with people with their ever moments like that they were very few are they waiting a little bit without a cue from. Negotiation handle the states that relate to to it and took the lead of two years its that last bit this i did actually its one of the fastest that new zealands if the company is certainly time. So we when we formally announce that we werent stepping into been to this on to the top flight in october two thousand with them we had had some discussions before that time preliminary discussions but the october two thousand and we announce that we would both undertake independent studies excited to see if we wanted to proceed. Now i think a on both sides have probably already done a bit with it. So those studies didnt take long itll take just one month later knighted in the two thousand uneven we formally announce that we would. Take this the knicks to get all of the joint study them and that was sweet we sat down to give a moment and we check to buy cat threw up what might be in the agreement has been talked about what we would want on outside what the side with one hand we built for the bonus that Common Ground peanuts and we tried to start that we have a sensitive issues would be ok and at the end of it consists in fact the new zealand side took the full decision to proceed of club but i think i won it probably already decided at that point we have slightly different ways of doing the sling. And so the unknown. In july nineteen ninety two thousand total thats when we go once the negotiations for molly and i took a little bit every year. She seemed resigned in july this year. With that since they had the ratification process is how we voted for the parliaments in both economies had to rectify the meal and in that it has entered into force. I changed into force on the fist it does seem to be. So to just a little over two years and now you asked about the prom with thirty points wee wee. Almost all go a little road with a win would not show with the we can proceed on inevitably he has a twist on the areas of difference thats when negotiations isabel. Ended after a scrum i think it would be no secret to say that that way you relate to take a Cocoa Products. In a particular what new zealand exports by waitakere Cocoa Products in taiwan. Tom and the seeds of a decent day at our concerns on the part of a can of coke from the ski and then im about to whither they can continue their iron production. In the face of competition from new zealand me. Now the reality is that with very few real concerns like that. New zealands agriculture and taiwan second coat of very different taiwan has a tropical subtropical agriculture new zealands temperate zone nine the nostril so we come from each other very well including the native culture and thats why it seems to taiwan would be able to motivate the coco cooks from the ceiling. But there were a couple of areas in particular and if you look at the end the outcome of the year of the negotiation that you know that the that the agreement itself. On the two areas where im from we have agreed to a long face and nine so the current era productions take place over long period of time copious been to the areas of liquid milk ok and de avila but oh no im not sure where the mania vera are you a swift would of told the developer would be an issue then a tight negotiation like this but it was because it is one area when we bought it from is producing the same product in time to teach me in competition with each other and held his hands. And so does so. Dell is really a point of contention because of me i can list the real sensitive issues i have to just sew them. There were a few other things but basically the negotiation and very well mostly think about it was a toddler can do with the teams on both sides we can turn on a thousand times yes but to ultimately be successful. And that given the fact that deal with these negotiations took them to steal altogether fun start to finish. Over two years and then actual official negotiations with the lessons that bill fourteen months altogether people signing in july two thousand fifty. And the meal you mention the fact that because the two economies. Actually more complementary to each other saying hell cup competition against it. Also hell get to the fact that you know what will be pleasantly surprised but the fact that she said you know this is the first no such Economic Cooperation agreement thats how once i did with anybody in a livable a member of gold cd he is developing common. And though the practice hell come on isnt really being involved in this type of bilateral multilateral negotiation for some time. Those that do people feel the new zealand what kind of surprise folks like myself pleasantly. They were able to bowl scene so quickly. You know and since negotiation is such a short period of time. I guess us apart is the only new zealand side to the people were a bit surprised to see that we were doing the negotiation an old man. I mistakenly that we did the complete with this politically as it did to me and reached a such a good conclusion. The Indian Government official period of time okay. I would have the time to say that in response to your comment on this is not the first time that taiwan has been involved in technicolor job because im the least having serious issues and in taiwan has some of the five of six that a good regular units with some of your diplomatic allies set on the particularly from that i get there from the wto accession is this which was a very big. The negotiation than the taiwanese they need economy inking the wto that im addicted theres a lot of experience they are reading and then we found that when he sat down at the table with taiwans negotiate this. They did this if it all seemed good. And though were looking at me on to regional pictures. We all know ourselves. Will that and then the signing of the aztec help me clean the ceiling in taiwan was surly be a very important meal. He knows hell first that bobo sites in terms of becoming more active on the regionals the ahl for example how one sortie. Hell sign the phone with china and also healed knew that new zealand is part of the ppp has also lost. And that given the fact that note i was also trying to pee more often regional economics family. The asia pacific. Oh would you think hell truly from the uks me all your observer no point of view dad said this will help both sites into sub branch email and maybe penetrating deeper into the other markets that might be of interest in the intermediate longer term we shouldnt forget of course that hes anti was also signed with singapore heres another very important state that you take in a state has some up from new zealands point of view we negotiate over taiwan. Not as a state towards it i once that is a patient in ttp or us people or things like that we negotiated for financial reasons. Taiwan is a very important market for new zealand could hide theories time since being out late teen died just a tv in both the present time if it goes on and that taiwan is a very reliable and loyal lack of adult meal we had some very longstanding that commercial relationships in this market which are very important to the new zealand thailand and media was to improve access to pile on the basis of and that we negotiated with the lace um i mean from taiwans what you mean i i know the prison than others the pope a lot about taiwans interest in joining tp to the side youll very aware of whats going on in the region andy you very wise to be falling the cuts because things are moving a particularly when ppp is is done and with aussie acting of the lease has been important developments. I answered taiwan needs to be thinking about the positioning itself to an end. Although it was a bit in a scene set our own hair and teach them. Neither the mates i think the negotiation that the taiwan is now done with the zeal and in with the singapore for example and does it to the experience that i won already. It is and its more than just the negotiators at the table in the scenes. Ideally you have to find team of negotiators from the ministry of economic status but the spirit of the supreme its a very complicated than my info but the wide range of government agencies. And and other organizations sometimes im in one of those have to have some experience. Its not in vain you who dont call those agencies nieces are the typical experience of these things and they have to develop that contains a three d experience of anstey and the steep that this helps you pull something caught the extent of the um the skill of popcorn might do more to it. And also consulting time. Privately he has a twin with with industry with Key Stakeholders through the precious name so that people are surprised away by what to think and i get older are you. Its important to build up experience around is the swelling sat and then youve got the experience that so that you all are a bad day just like this have to pay a fee so that they come to this agreement or understanding what that is able to them able to see certain that all complete two to approve. The its a very important for step one lot of heat detecting not to take negotiates the would you take the first break on the program will be back in just two minutes. Fans. Eye it is. Sells. Says the sea the eye. Welcome back to the second part of todays world and beyond that of wild look on the host read will will continue our conversation with mr stephen pate and acoustic effect it off to new zealand commerce and Industry Office here in taipei taiwan. Steve no more talking book signing off as it flew this talk about some of the intangibles built the process of course meal was finished in a little more than the year which is a meal possibly a record. And then that given the fact that hell do what women then said motivation on both sites but there were also some of old tactics that would use but both sides to try to demonstrate a sense of appreciation and sensitivity del course the position of your site up some of the more sensitive issues of the bill for example to negotiation it was very little if gnome much at all ill in the News Coverage of the negotiation itself. And then beat the signing ceremony in on july ten. The pair we took place in the university. You know back home in wellington and then the deal also be known though very few if any no senior officials from either side. Hell presiding at the signing ceremony. You are the one of course represented. You know in new zealand and the all the scenes tentacles key to think that really helped interests of both sides help building up confidence each other. Also keep the negotiations is going for school. Well family is having those were important issues this out but it can i just distinguish between them into two states of issues please some one is question of how much publicity is given to a negotiation as the proceeds and from the negotiators point of view the us has the least the bits of corn now im. Its clear that the year the and to the legislation is another people like that. Would like to know what is going on about the reality is you cannot compare to the Trading Commission issue like this on the front page of the newspaper or woman on the internet not it does need a degree of confidentiality of its kind in the in quite a few people of our info and then consulted during the course of folk negotiation. And its important that both sides trying keeps take Key Stakeholders that hed been in touch with whats happening movement particularly those in the realm of the vm them the most sensitive issues which maggie. You need to be negotiated very carefully in the final stages but generally speaking its not helpful to have a lot of publicity. The end of this negotiation and never speak was no different from any other one that the wood to concoct an outcome. So that viewers may be a winner of all the discussion thats going on around cpp for example. And they have come there is a more publicity to a pre negotiating round is being held in a different economy in a different city and that will not in our stakeholders are invited to come along so they can be priests during the course of two of the week or ten days of mom that if a man. Around this time. Inside theres a bit more. People want a lot more done with information about whats happening in the third layout being disappointed because uconn conduct a negotiation that way not in the in the case it was the realm of the straightforward negotiation the wood seats to the peace that stakeholders would be consulted on both sides through the negotiation but we when telling the world it freed me to. We had lists of things that end i dont think people would consider going down. If the point where we came to arrive today to start is interesting to them with a fixed the bin there was a lot of consultation of people were wounded with them. A brief two thousand and eight. There was opportunity to question to protect it and now they want it to the issues of the other set of issues is a is really about the fact that in the absence of the government a cup of the relationship and in terms of the one china policy that new zealand operates um we head to the conduct of the mission but differently to how we would do a normal the negotiation time ive already mentioned that we had to find a different legal bae systems around the distinctive name bishops of the wto to abandon some of the areas we have to observe a certain form mohawk negotiation. So that we couldnt fit to keep what we wanted to do than he i make a distinction between form and substance. The substance was the important stuff inside to achieve that we had to observe certain form. For example gets there was a fitting the key signing ceremony held at them. A Sydney University in wellington a very attractive venue i have to say i tend to view this tea had some relationships with the proceeds. One of their academics that the matter independent study and look like that hancock and the fact that i had the privilege of signing them rather than say new zealand he kept the minister was another way in which we had to adopt a different approach because of the circumstances but ultimately we have come up with that of a world class agreement. That no one has objected to go. In fact its being widely welcomed around the world and yet do articles in the economist magazine in the wall street journal about the disagreement in town. Now that doesnt happen with the knee. Other agreements that new