This is overheard. [evan] mary lynn, welcome. [mary lynn] hi. [both] nice to see you. Very nice to meet you. So, im catching you now as youre out on tour doing standup, which you do a fair amount of these days. Yes. Thank you for catching me. [evan] well, happy to catch you. Everybody coming here at the last minute. [evan] thank you for being caught. [mary lynn] its exciting. [evan] good to have you. Many of us know you through the front door as an actress. We know you from 24 or some of the other stuff youve done. Youve been a comedian for a long time. Do you selfdefine these days as a comedian who acts or as an actress who does standup . Its hard to say at this point. I dont really know. Maybe theres no one or the other, its both. Yeah, i kind of change once i get on the road. Last time. I just got into austin, so things havent gotten too crazy yet. Last night was pretty mellow, but i was just in atlanta, and when i landed, i called my husband, i miss you, i dont know what im doing, why am i doing this . And, then had a great show, and i dont usually go out that much, and then the comedians were like, come out with us and then ended up going out, having a crazy night. [evan] yeah, its a scene. You enjoy it, still. Youve been doing this a long time, but you still enjoy it. I enjoy it, its just the transition between, why am i doing this . And then, once im on the road and doing it, theres really nothing like it. And is it possible to do both at the same time . Can you act during the day and then do standup at night . Or do you have to take off a period of time to do a season of 24 when youre filming . Thats a good question. The last installment of 24, we were in london for five months, and even preparing to go to london was sort of like youre mentally in the space of 24. And we were bringing the show back after four years. And so. Even though i did have down time, enough time to go do standup, i was really focused on that. But by the end of my five months in london, if i knew i was gonna have a stretch of days off, i started sort of investigating the scene and going to comedy rooms and stuff like that. Ready to get back in front of an audience. Yeah. A lot of people who do comedy, and especially these days where people talk a lot about the things that influenced them as a kid, theyll say, well, i listened to George Carlins records as a kid, or steve martin, or andy kaufman. And, my understanding of your backstory here is that you didnt necessarily think, as a kid, i wanna be a a comedian, i wanna do standup. You dont necessarily have that same story. No, no, not at all. If anything, it was more of, i want to be an actor. But i didnt even really think that. I didnt really have the capacity to think that i was somebody who could do Something Like that. You hear that a lot from people, maybe, i didnt know that was a possibility, or, especially with comedy, i just thought, im female, im kind of odd, im kind of an interior person. And comedy was something where it was mostly a guy talking about his thoughts and being real. Right, extroverted. Extroverted, but as time went on, it started with me doing Performance Art, and then people. My Performance Art was always performeraudience based and i started getting laughter in places where i didnt necessarily intend to get laughter. Sometimes good, sometimes not, right . Exactly, and then i kind of started intersecting with my art school Performance Art world in San Francisco with other comedians, and that was sort of a good. I like how you called acting the front door. It was a good back door into comedy in that it wasnt so intimidating. It was the same for me with acting. I moved to los angeles to do live performance. If i had gone there thinking, im gonna do this, i have my head shots, ive changed my name. I would have known that i was gonna do it. No, no, raskjub is awesome. I wouldnt actually. Its good. How many raskjubs are there, right . [mary lynn] no. My family. [evan] not very many. So, lets come to San Francisco in a second. So, family. So you grew up in detroit. [mary lynn] yes, yes. [evan] in a suburb of detroit. Family is not in the entertainment business. Absolutely not. They must have thought, howd you end up. . For them, this thought that you wanted to do what youre doing now must have been an interesting thing. I did some acting as a kid, and definitely in high school. Like community plays and theater. Yeah, and in high school it really was the only thing that i could focus on or had any interest in, and thankfully there was a pretty decent Theater Program at the school. So they supported me in having that interest and they certainly love whats happened, and its been really exciting for them. But it wasnt an obvious choice for you as a kid, given the environment in which you grew up, or the place you grew up. Detroit in those days, a little bit of a different detroit, maybe a more optimistic detroit than there is now, right . Yeah, i dont know, depending on who you talk to. I havent really been back in detroit properly in the city for a while, but some people say theres a great art scene there now, which i would like to go and check out. Lots of stuff happening, and hopefully a rebirth at some point. The citys coming back. You went to art school in detroit first, before going at San Francisco. [mary lynn] yes. Different experience than being out in the west coast . Absolutely, i mean, i love detroit a lot. That was a really exciting time in my life because i kind of went to art school because i wasnt a good student, i didnt. Study very much. College wasnt. I just thought, ehh, i dont wanna do that, im gonna have to take subjects over again that i was never interested in the first place, or im gonna have to get a job. So i found art school just to [evan] perfect pause. [mary lynn] to not have to do any of those, and i thought, oh, let me try to draw something, and get a portfolio, not really knowing what i was doing, and once i got in there, it was just like, it spoke to my heart in bigger ways. It took immediately. What a sculpture was, so it was really exciting to get a basic understanding of everything. And being in detroit was really fun. But there was a lot of, like, found scrap metal object art making. There was one class where we had to document churches that were falling apart in detroit. [evan] uplifting. [mary lynn] very uplifting. So you made the decision to go west, because you thought, maybe therell be a different vibe out there. Yes, and i loved San Francisco immediately. Its such a gorgeous place, and that was just really exciting and fun for me. I just rode the bus for fun, you know. See the environment out there. Im interested in what you said about the Performance Art giving way to what became comedy, or even alternative comedy is the phrase that we hear. You were part of a scene out there of people. We talked before about patton oswalt, somebody who you saw early, and who actually has recently, in his book, documented what that scene was like at the time, both in the bay area and then migrating down to los angeles. Seems like a really exciting time, and a lot of really great people came out of that comedy world. It really was, i feel very lucky because i was meeting comedians in San Francisco, because a lot of comedy clubs were closing, but the alternative scenes were starting, so they were mixing with local poets. And it was patton oswalt, greg behrendt, and then a group of people said, were going to la to do live shows. And i had no reason to go or not to go. I just thought, well, that sounds fun, and thats what im interested in doing. Thats the next thing to do. [mary lynn] live shows. And it was jack black, and david cross, just tons of people, it was a really amazing scene. Into that group at that time. How did your style develop . You are not the sort of person i imagine writing a bunch of jokes and then going out on stage and then, tell a joke. Your personality is particular, and your comedy is particular. So how did your own understanding of your own version of comedy develop . Well, in la at that time, it was a great time to do comedy because everybody, the comedians. Like patton oswalt, he was very polished, and he knew how to be funny, but in these smaller rooms, people were much more personal and the comedy was more storytelling and it was more therapeutic, almost. You would see comedians saying things that they would never have the opportunity to say in a comedy club where it was all about the joke and all about competing to be the best in that environment. So thats what was really exciting to me, was that people, those moments between the joke where you see somebodys personality, and a lot of the shows at that time were all peoples personality. But for me in particular, i was just really. Socially. Kind of terrified, but for some reason, i was really drawn and compelled to perform. I think, looking back, it was sort of my own neuroses. I needed to do that in order. Not to survive, not to be that dramatic, but it really was something i couldnt really. My personality is probably more of a painter, but i really needed to communicate and be around people. It was an outlet for you. It was an outlet in more ways than one. I was driven by needing the social scene and needing the creativity and needing the expression. Were you influenced by anybody . Im trying to think about an equivalent to your style. Steven wright, somebody who was more of an observational person, who kind of comes at things from the side rather than the way youd imagine. Im trying to think about if there are people who you might have seen as influences or people who maybe you might have admired at that time and thought, well this is the kind of comedy i enjoy. I was very much influenced by the people that were around me at that time. Right, your contemporaries. Wed talk backstage, it was Karen Kilgariff and Janeane Garofalo and all the people we just mentioned. That was so exciting, to see people doing things that were out of the box and doing stuff because they felt like doing it, you know . Jumping ahead now, i think about it, a lot of the people youve mentioned have gone on to be very mainstream big successes. Will ferrells the obvious example of that, Janeane Garofalo, david cross, Karen Kilgariff, there were a number of other people who were associated with that scene in San Francisco or los angeles who went on to be part of either mr. Show or the ben stiller show. Before that, some of the people who were associated later with Larry Sanders, as you were, thats some extraordinary comedy youre mining. Those people, and to see how that scene has become kind of the mainstream scene. Its been a real transition. And of course, you ended up on one of the most Popular Network shows of our lifetimes, right . [mary lynn] yes, that was. [evan] hard to imagine . Also, unexpected. Something you didnt necessarily set out to do. I was around for a lot of those early mr. Shows. I dont know how much it really happens like this anymore, with the internet and people filming their own things and having the ability to quickly do that, but it was bob odenkirk and david cross doing live shows to test the material that would become that tv show. And they would throw me in there and i was almost kind of like a mascot, i didnt really know what was going on. I loved performing, but i almost feel like its only now that im a more wellrounded person and kind of putting together the pieces of. Its not all some big experimental art piece. But if you look back at the chaos that was the basis for that show, as you describe it, it actually held together remarkably well and really was something. And people generally regarded it, i know there was a Rolling Stones story that talked about it as one of the greatest sketch comedy shows of all time. No, yeah, those guys were brilliant. Look at how influential it was on so much else. Absolutely, i think i was very chaotic in my own approach, i didnt really know what was going on. Those guys were always brilliant and very focused and kind of magical together, worked very hard to make that. I wanna ask you about Larry Sanders because that still looms large in everyones mind, and you know you had a great opportunity there. And i wanna ask about how you got 24 and the experience of making that program, because again, we have all now kind of embraced long format, episodic television, that kind of a drama you can throw a rock and hit one these days on television and off. 24 was kind of revolutionary in its own way at the time that it came on. Talk about Larry Sanders. How daunting it must be to be with some of those guys, shanlding and rip torn and tambor and all those guys who are just amazing, even back then. It really was, and i feel very lucky that i was sort of able to learn on the job. Per episode, i would have a scene or two, or three, maybe, so it was just enough to keep me from not completely freaking out and melting down because i really was learning while i was doing it. I remember i just learned so much about acting and comedy. There was one moment where Gary Shandling said to me, it was some line of, yeah, im gonna do that later. Some normal line, and he looked at me and said, what are you thinking . And i said, i was thinking, ill do that later. Kind of just thinking just what i said. Hes like, no, well, but what else are you thinking about . He just called me out in that moment, and i sort of never looked back. He was telling me about subtext, which is the bedrock of being a good actor is that maybe you have other things going on inside of you other than the thing that youre saying, and he completely recognized that i didnt have any other intentions or thoughts or feelings in that moment, and. Again, i had already filmed a couple takes, and so. Just changed everything. It was really fun for me. And i had a proclivity for that, so i was going in the right direction, i just was very untrained. So how did you get from that to 24 . If you think about mr. Show and Larry Sanders, theyre both subversive shows, and theyre clearly comedy shows. 24, subversive in its own way, but the exact opposite of those shows. Its funny, because a lot of places i go, people only know me from 24. I recently, a few years ago, did a guest spot on modern family, and one of the creators, i said, i think i know him from years ago, and i dont know if he knows me. I know they know me enough to give me this job. And he came and he sat down next to me and he goes, now, can you believe you were on 24 . And that was the way he said hi to me, and i just had a good laugh because. He knew you from the old days. Yeah, and theres a lot of people in the business that are now sort of, oh, shes doing comedy again, because theres a huge chunk of time where i was just something completely different. [evan] you were just chloe. So, how did that happen . How did it come to you, and how did you decide you wanted to do it . I got a call from my agent and she said, they want to read you for this. And i rarely got drama auditions, and i had recently had a horrible drama audition. I think it was for csi or something. For like, you know, abused woman. [evan] dead body. [mary lynn] dead whatever. Its weird because its not that i. I believed in my ability, but its almost the transition of coming into the audition room, and once i did the part i believe i was good and fine, but it was walking in the room and going, hey guys, so this woman in the scene is all. Im sure they were like, what is wrong with this girl . I was just being probably silly and uncomfortable and odd, and they were all so serious, and the part was so serious, and i thought, well that was horrible, and i dont wanna do that again. Not gonna get it, its gonna be fine. And so my agent said, they really wanna see you. And i said, ah, its hot today. I dont wanna drive. I just had this csi thing. And she said, they really wanna see you. sigh okay. So, its the next day and i watch two or three. And i started season 3 [evan] you came in season 3, you were not there in the beginning. So it was already kind of a thing, so i crammed as many episodes as i could before the meeting, and i go in there, and joel surnow, the creator, he meets me in the hallway. This never happens, and again its one of these awesome. He says, well, i think youre great, and we wanna write a write a part for you. Were gonna write a part for you. And there was a part on the page, but really there was nothing to it yet because every time they start a new season, theyve gotta cast the whole. Each different plot line they have a cast of characters, and theres always new people in the ctu, and so it was just, yes, jack. No, jack. And i said, well, thank you, i can go home now. You just validated me whether. I didnt believe it was gonna happen necessarily, but really, as an actor, youre like, great, thats gonna keep me going for another year or two. The fact that someone would even say that because you dont know if its gonna happen or not. And were talking and he says, so, what do you think of the show . I said, i think its great. He said, you dont really watch the show, do you . Because he knew that once people watch it, they love it, and since i had just watched a few episodes to kind of cram it i was like, yes, its a fantastic show. And he called me out, he knew. But youre not really a 24 fan. And i was like, no, i just watched it last night. So he had seen me in a movie called punchdrunk love, directed by paul thomas anderson, and i play a bossy overbearing sister to adam sandler and he liked that quality, that special quality that i had, and. I think it was. That may have been the best thing that came out of that whole movie, right . Its a pretty good movie. I like the movie. But look what it did. So he liked that, and he said, i want mary lynn for this show. And they didnt imagine this as a character who would be on the show for. [mary lynn] absolutely not. [evan] you had the most episodes of any character in the history of the show other than jack. Its amazing. [evan] other than Kiefer Sutherland. And when i started it was like, okay, we want you to do two episodes. Okay, we want you to do four episodes. And it was like that for a good three, four years. No guarantee it was gonna keep going. No. Whats Kiefer Sutherland like . Did you enjoy working with him . [mary lynn] yeah. [evan] you know, his reputation is kind of big. What did you think about working with him . Hes great, hes one of those guys who. We all know his history as an actor. Hes somebody who has the pedigree and the dedication, and he comes out of a Certain School of acting. I really learned a lot from him about how to. Hes a star, hes the star of the show. He drives that show, hes the real thing. And for somebody like me, i tend to try to avoid things or, even things that i love, im just like, nyuh, well see about that. And hes somebody who really jumps into it, and really has a dedication, and he sets the pace for that show, and i think thats a really. Thats a really hard character to be, if you think about it, because half of 24 is. I dont wanna say ridiculous, its an amazing show, half of it is like, unbelievable. Its fantastical. Its fantastical. Youre like, no way would that ever happen. The other half is rooted in real things that are happening. And he rides that line. He threw himself fully into every episode. But in a sense that he didnt. I dont know quite how to articulate it, but its not like he. You believe him as that guy. Hes not over the top, and hes not too understated. He knows how to play it, and i think theres very few people that can pull that off. Except that you made that character you, and indistinguishable from you, and in fact, weve talked to you for a short little time here, you get a sense of the personality that you have and the personality of the characters are not that different. [mary lynn] really . Dont you think you made that character to be more like you . Yes. Was the character necessarily written to be that way . Or did it just basically happen because of how you evolved it . They wrote to me, and i did my version of what i would be like if i were a computer genius who could save the world from a terrorist attack. Right, nothing big, no. But if you go back to the time you were in art school, or the Performance Art you did, or the comedy scene on the west coast, would you have imagined that this would have been the part that would have been the defining part . [mary lynn] never. [evan] you would agree that is the defining part of your career . [mary lynn] yes. [evan] people probably see you on the street and, if theyre gonna yell anything, theyll probably yell, chloe. Absolutely. Youre comfortable with that, youre good with that . Sure, what am i gonna do . Well, nothing. It wasnt the answer exactly that i was looking for. But thats okay. Im learning, im learning. We have a couple minutes left. So tv has been a big part of your. Youve done a bunch of parts in movies. That was the worst. I give the worst answers. No, thats okay, its fine. I just keep going. Im such a petulant child, yeah, i dunno. What do you think . Ill work on that. Well just edit that out in post. For my oscars speech, yeah, cool, you guys. I guess. Youre continuing to work in tv, or what passes for tv. You had mentioned that you had just done a pilot for amazon. [mary lynn] yes. [evan] i guess thats tv. Right . Do we think of amazon and netflix [mary lynn] sure is. [evan]. And hulu and all those nonconnected, cablecorded shows as tv . In hollywood, in the world of getting acting jobs, its as much tv as anything else. In fact, if you look at the award nominations, which you know are worth basically the statues that are produced for them, so what . But its all netflix and amazon and a lot of the cable programs that maybe once upon a time wouldnt have been thought to be. Right, from my end as an actor and a performer you look for interesting, good material that has integrity, and then you hope for eyeballs on it. Obviously you hope the project comes together, and then you want viewers, so thats the interesting part for me. I loved working with amazon. They really took time and care to put together all the aspects of it. Well see how it comes out, well see if people watch it. And the principal Creative Force behind that program was somebody who had been connected with the film nebraska. Yes, the writer of the pilot wrote the movie nebraska, the directors. The husband and wife team that directed little miss sunshine, and its about a kid who sees imaginary people. Hes 19 years old. I play his mother, Chris Parnell plays his father, and were very wellmeaning, and we dont know whether to have him committed or not, and we support him but we let him know hes not normal, and. Im guessing its a comedy. Its a comedy, its a very dry comedy. But the people that hes talking to, you see them as an audience member, you see what he sees, so it was Shaquille Oneal and flea. Actually, i dont know if im supposed to be saying this or not. Youll cut this out if im going to get in trouble, right . [evan] nobody on pbs knows who flea is except for you and me, so its okay. I think thats supposed to be a surprise announcement for later, i got carried away. With the relaxed atmosphere here. I like you carried away, thats good. Mary lynn raskjub, great to have a chance to talk to you and fun to go back and listen to your stories. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Good luck with everything youre doing. Mary lynn raskjub, thanks very much. [voiceover] wed love to have you join us in the studio. Visit our website at klru. Org overheard to find invitations to interviews, q and as with our audience and guests, and an archive of past episodes. The fictional tv show thats in californication, i play a writer on that show, and i was surrounded by men, and i really hated men, and instead of being nude and having sex like everybody does on that show i got to trade that for vomiting, so that was a really. [voiceover] funding for overheard with evan smith is provided in part by mfi foundation, improving the quality of life within our community. Also by hillco partners, a texas Government Affairs consultancy. And by the alice keberg reynolds foundation