the british prisoner group cage , who knew mohammed. >> surprised to know the man i knew was extremely kind, extremely gentle extremely soft-spoken was the most humble young person that i knew. amy: and then to attica's ghost. we look at the savage conditions inside the new york jail today where three guards nearly beat a prisoner to death in 2011. just before the trial was to begin this week, the guards pled guilty to misdemeanor they will not serve jail time. you will speak with reporter tom robbins and former attica prisoner antonio yarbough, who served 20 years for triple murder but was exonerated last year and released. first, to obamacare. the supreme court has heard arguments in a case to determine if millions of people can keep receiving tax subsidies to help pay for private health insurance. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the justice department is calling for a major overhaul of ferguson's criminal justice system after finding systemic discrimination against african-american residents. a comprehensive report says police disproportionately stopped, arrested and used force against blacks without reasonable suspicion, and then acted as a "collection agency" to operate off of their fines. unveiling the probe's findings outgoing attorney general eric holder described how residents were targeted for arrest and then saddled with penalties. >> some officers even compete to see who can issue the largest number of citations during a single stop. a total that at least one instance, rose as high as 14. we have observed even minor code violations can sometimes result in multiple arrests, jail time, and payments that exceed the cost of the original ticket many times over. now, for example in 2007, 1 woman received two working tickets that together totaled $152. to date, she is paid $550 in fines and fees to the city of ferguson. she has been arrested twice for having unpaid tickets, and she is spent six days in jail. yet today, she is still inexplicably owing ferguson $541. amy: the report details many other examples of police harassment, abuse, and racial profiling of african-americans. dogs were let loose, only on blacks and sometimes without warning. one man was accused of being a pedophile for sitting in his car after playing basketball in a public park. after objecting to a car search, he was arrested at gunpoint on charges that ultimately cost him his job as a federal contractor. other instances were found of taser attacks without cause and people called the n-word. saying the racial bias was pervasive, attorney general holder demanded "wholesale and structural corrective action." cook's communities where local authorities consistently approach law enforcement not as a means for protecting public safety, but as a way to generate revenue. a community were both policing and municipal court practices were found to be disproportionately harmful to african-american residents, a community where this harm frequently appears to stem at least in part from racial bias both implicit and explicit, now that our investigation has reached its conclusion. it is time -- it is time for ferguson's leaders to take immediate wholesale and structural corrective action. let me be very clear. united states department of justice reserves all of its rights and abilities to force compliance and implement basic change. nothing is off the table. amy: the justice department says it will take legal action if ferguson doesn't comply with its demands, which include a "shift from policing to raise revenue to policing in partnership with the entire ferguson community." in a statement, the st. louis-based don't shoot coalition said -- "now that the lived experience of our community being regularly targeted and harassed by law enforcement has been acknowledged, we hope the ferguson police department will be brought to justice through a doj lawsuit that results in federal oversight." in response, ferguson mayor james knowles said he is determined to address the issues raised by the probe, but did not say whether he will comply with its demands. mayor knowles did announce the firing of a police supervisor found to have written racist emails, and the suspension of two others. >> let me be clear. this type of behavior will not be tolerated in the ferguson police department or in any department in the city of ferguson. immediately upon leaving that meeting, the three individuals were placed on administrative leave pending an investigation. one has since been terminated and the other two are still awaiting the outcome of an internal investigation. amy: the probe has renewed calls for the dismissal of ferguson police chief tom jackson, but knowles did not comment on his future. in unveiling the findings on the ferguson police, the justice department also confirmed police officer darren wilson will not face civil rights charges for the fatal shooting of unarmed african-american teenager michael brown last august. holder said there is not enough evidence to support a prosecution. >> the facts do not support the filing of criminal charges against officer darren wilson in this case. michael brown's death, though a tragedy, did not involve rescue double conduct -- prosecutable conduct on the part of officer wilson. this conclusion represents the sound, considered, and independent judgment of the expert career prosecutors within the department of justice. i have been personally briefed on multiple occasions about these findings. i concur with the investigative team's judgment and the determination about our inability to meet required federal standard. amy: wilson avoided criminal prosecution after a grand jury declined to indict him in november. the justice department's rejection of federal civil rights charges against wilson comes just days after it reached the same conclusion for george zimmerman, the florida man who shot dead unarmed african-american teen trayvon martin three years ago this month. in a statement, michael brown's parents, lesley mcspadden and michael brown, sr. said -- "while we are saddened by this decision, we are encouraged that the doj will hold the ferguson police department accountable for the pattern of racial bias and profiling they found in their handling of interactions with people of color. it is our hope that through this action, true change will come not only in ferguson, but around the country. if that change happens, our son's death will not have been in vain." in syria, dozens of people are dead following a rebel attack on a government intelligence building in the embattled city of aleppo. jihadist groups including the al qaeda-linked nusra front have claimed responsibility. it comes just days after opposition fighters rejected a temporary truce in aleppo, saying they won't accept any deal that keeps basher al-assad in power. u.s. and iranian negotiators have reported progress in their bid to reach a nuclear deal before a march 31 deadline. the talks will reconvene on march 15 after concluding on wednesday. the advances come as israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu has returned to israel following his trip to washington seeking to stop the deal. iranian foreign minister said while caps remain, negotiators are resisting the pressure of warmongers and scare mongers. >> we're not far from reaching an agreement. there are cap's that need to be field, serious ones, but that doesn't mean we're not capable of moving forward. we have one very serious problem, and that is there is a great deal of pressure that is being imposed by warmongers, scare mongers, who are trying to prevent a deal by lying demagoguery, and that is an impediment to the necessary atmosphere that is required to reach an agreement. netanyahu sought to undermine the deal by speaking before congress, which could potentially block any easing of u.s.-led sanctions under the potential agreement. the u.s. ambassador to south korea has been attacked by knife wielding assailant during a public event in seoul. mark lippert was preparing to give a lecture when he was slashed in the face. the assailant reportedly shouted antiwar slogans denouncing ongoing military drills between the u.s. and south korea. north korea testfired short-range missiles. north korea's official news agency has praised a knife attack, telling it "expression of resistance." the ambassador tweeted he is doing well after being taken to the hospital and undergoing surgery. through public and controlled senate has held override president obama's veto of a measure approving construction of the keystone xl pipeline. obama rejected the bill last week to allow for the completion of a state department reviewed. a former new jersey environment official says the office of governor chris christie pushed through a favorable settlement the potentially save the oil giant exxon mobil millions of dollars. last week, new jersey quietly agreed to accept just $250 million from exxon after initially seeking $8.9 billion for environment of contamination more than a decade ago. the settlement came just two month after the state attorney general's top us made a strong demand for the original $8.9 billion claim, saying in a court -- quote -- bradley campbell, the former commissioner new jersey, department of environmental protection says governor christie's chief counsel, christopher perino -- and those are some of the headlines, this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i am amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. >> welcome to all our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. we turn to the supreme court which heard arguments wednesday in another challenge to the affordable care act, or obamacare. if the government loses the case known as king versus burwell millions of people would lose tax subsidies needed to help pay for private health insurance. the challenge was brought by the competitive enterprise institute, which is backed by the koch brothers. inside the courtroom, justices appeared sharply divided. the white house warned of catastrophic damage if the court rules against the subsidies. amy: for more, we're joined by ian millhiser, senior fellow at the center for american progress action fund and the editor of think breast justice. he is the author of the forthcoming book, "injustices." he attended wednesday's supreme court oral arguments in king v. burwell. describe the scene inside the courtroom and explain just what this case is all about. >> so this is really a case about whether or not the justices are capable of reading more than six words. the plaintiffs in this case hone in on these six words in the law in exchange established by the state, and they claim those words appear in a place which makes it the case that if you are in one of the 36 states that has a federally run exchange instead of one of the ones that is a state run health exchange under the law, you do not get these tax credits. we are talking about hundreds of billions of dollars worth of tax credits that help people pay for the law were help people pay for insurance. the problem with other -- with it, the word exchange is defined in the law, defined in a way that deems state exchanges of federal exchanges to be the exact same thing. very's provisions of the law become absurd if you accept the plaintiff's reading of what those words mean. and then there is this problem that if in fact the plaintiffs are right -- and this came up a lot at oral argument -- it can set off what is called a death spiral, where it creates a shock to the insurance market that could potentially collapse those markets in many states, leaving people in individual insurance markets unable to buy insurance at any price. nermeen: could you explain how that would happen? what would the impact be of a decision against, in this case, on insurance companies and premiums? >> sure thing. so, these tax credits cover -- depending on what state you're in, an average of 60% to 80% of many of the average person premium. so if this case go south, you will secret deals go up to 600% in many states. once that happens, healthy people stop dropping out of the health insurance market because the premiums have gone up so much, they can no longer afford their care. when healthy people drop out of the market, the insurance companies no longer have enough revenue to cover the cost of their sick customers. so they have to jack up premiums even more. when they do that, more people drop out, which causes premiums to go up more, which is causing more people to drop out. that is the death spiral deck of potentially collapse the market. what was interesting yesterday justice kennedy, there's a doctor messes states cannot be subjected to unconstitutional coercion. they can be forced to do something under penalty of a terrible consequence. kennedy seemed to think that if the plaintiffs are right about how this law was written forcing states to choose between setting up their own exchange were dealing with this death spiral is unconstitutional and for that reason, i think he is more likely than not going to vote with the government and say, no, we're plaintiff's readings because it is to unconstitutional and would coerce the state and that is not acceptable. amy: it is not as if they're going back hundreds of years to try to figure out how this law was passed, to determine what is meant by the term "established by the state." people debated this. they wrote about it. what about that legal history the intent of those who wrote the law? >> there is no question here what this law is supposed to be. you don't even have to look at -- there is a brief filed by any members of congress saying, no, that is not what we meant. the plaintiffs in their brief caught up former senator ben nelson and claimed that nelson wanted it to be this way. nelson wrote a letter saying, no, that is not how i wanted it. there's no question this is not how the law was intended to work. but you don't need to look at intention or even look at what these members of congress are saying, all you have to do is read the law. the word "exchange" is defined in the law to say that any exchange, whether it is run by the state or by the federal government, shall be deemed to be in exchange that is established by a state. that is really all you need to know. the word "exchange" is defined in the law, the law clearly says state and federal exchanges are the exact same thing. and if these justices follow the law and aren't consumed by partisan politics, this should be an easy case. nermeen: i want to turn to the group behind the case, the competitive enterprise institute. the group's website says this case -- yaris regulate violates the plain language of the law enacted by congress to either set up such exchanges themselves or stay out of the program. could you explain what is the competitive enterprise institute and what is their interest in this case? >> they don't like obamacare. their interest is, they are opposed to this policy and they want to use the supreme court as their agent in order to enact -- to get rid of this policy they don't like. look, there's a lot of right-wing groups in washington, d.c. -- particularly verlin group. former board chair wrote a blog post for you compare the affordable care act to the holocaust. think about that. he compared giving health insurance to millions of people so that they can live to the holocaust. you are thinking -- dealing with some folks here who don't really have the same perspective that many people have, and they're hoping there are five justices that essentially will be their agents to enact an agenda they could not get through congress to engage in a very political, very partisan attack on president obama's chief of congressman's. amy: as we wrap up "the new york times headline, at least one justice is in play as workers health case. where this goes from here? >> i think is more likely than not the justices will reject this challenge. kennedy seemed to feel is the plaintiffs were right, that would be unconstitutional. so the court should avoid construction of the law that is unconstitutional. chief justice roberts was dead silent, but roberts upheld the law three years ago and this legal challenge is so weak -- robert is very conservatively -- he is very smart. i think the most likely outcome is 63 outcome -- 6 to 3 outcome. it is still up in the air. we won't know until the decision comes down. obviously, it would be very very frightening. we're talking about an estimate of his 10,000 people will die every year if this case goes against the government. amy: ian millhiser, thank you for being with us senior fellow , at the center for american progress action fund and the editor of thinkprogress justice. he is the author of the forthcoming book, "injustices: the supreme court's history of comforting the comfortable and afflicting the afflicted." when we come back, we go to london to talk about the man who can to be known as jihadi john. stay with us. ♪ [music break] amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. nermeen: we turn now to the case of the islamist militant nicknamed jihadi john. he first came to prominence in beheading videos released by the islamic state. we will have that clip for you in a moment. last week, press accounts identified the man known as jihadi john as a londoner named mohammed emwazi who was originally from kuwait. emwazi moved to britain as a child and studied computer science at the university of westminster. the story has touched off a debate in britain over policing and monitoring of potential threats. a big question remains over when and how emwazi became radicalized. according to british government accounts, emwazi was a member of a network in contact with one of the men convicted of trying to bomb the london underground in 2005. he was also believed to be part of a group involved in procuring funds and equipment "for terrorism-related purposes" in somalia. amy: but the prisoner advocacy group cage has presented a different side of the story. they say emwazi became radicalized after years of harassment by british security agencies who attempted to recruit him as a spy. in 2009, emwazi approached cage after he was detained and interrogated by the british intelligence agency mi5 on what he called a safari vacation in tanzania. in 2010, after emwazi was barred from returning to kuwait, he wrote -- "i had a job waiting for me and marriage to get started. but now i feel like a prisoner only not in a cage, in london." cage posted audio of emwazi recounting an interrogation by a british agent in 2009. in the recording, emwazi describes how he condemned 9/11 and the deadly july 7, 2005 attacks on the london subway. >> i look to him face-to-face and he looked at me and said, mohammed, what do you think of 7/7? i said, innocent people -- what do you think, this is extremism. he said, ok, what did you think of the war in afghanistan? i said, what do i think? we see innocent people are being killed. he said, what did you think of 9/11? i said what happened was wrong. what would you want me to say? [indiscernible] i think what happened is wrong. nermeen: this is a video of emwazi last year and a beheading video released by the islamic state. >> obama, i am back the covers of your insistence of continuing your bombings, despite our serious warnings. you, obama, have yet to gain through your actions, just another american citizen. just as your missiles continue just like our people, our lives will continue to strike neck thes of our people. amy: to find out more about mohammed emwazi, we go to london, to talk to asim qureshi, research director at cage. he had been in regular contact with emwazi till he left britain in 2012. welcome to democracy now! when you heard that video, well before he was identified by security, did you wonder if it was emwazi since you knew him? >> know, i didn't have any idea it was him until the reporter from "the washington post suggested to me that the two men might be the same and then played me the video. then i saw the restriping some letters between them but even then i could not be certain. amy: tell us who mohammed emwazi was, when you came to know him and tell us the story he told you of what was happening to him over the years. >> absolutely. what we have to remember is that when ethiopia invaded somalia in 2006-2007, what happened was the u.k. security agencies made some assumptions about the threats that might be posed to the u.k. they started becoming worried about those people who hailed from the horn of africa region but also those were traveling to that region as well. we saw a large number of men who were traveling, for example, kenya or tanzania or other countries nearby, being stopped or even though some ideas traveling to somalia young men were also getting stopped as well, and questioned a great deal. what was happening on the streets of london was mi5 and other members of the security apparatus were combing through these communities for suggesting to these individuals thought they were extremist, thought they had acquaintances that were problematic, but also trying to recruit them to spy -- to become spies within a communities will stop this was the environment created post 2007. when mohammed emwazi and his two friends went to tanzania, they went very much in that environment as well. while they were there intense and yet, they were detained by the tanzanian authorities to tell them that we were told to stop you by the british and send you back. they were deported back to holland where they had transit and and subsequently, on to the u.k. both in the netherlands were the were stopped and in the u.k. they were questioned by british security officials from mi5. a lot of those conversations were quite strange for these young men. in the case of mohammed emwazi they were obviously trying to suggest that he was trying to go to el-shabazz in somalia. mohammed's response was, there is an entire country kenya between tanzania in somalia, how can you be suggesting such a thing about me? this is from what he was telling me. what i think really convinced mohammed this was some kind of fishing expedition and a way of trying to turn him as an individual, they said, look, we have spoken to your fiancé in kuwait and spoken her family and we have met them and, you know, they know about the fact you are on our radar. mi5's questioning resulted in his engagement haven't broken off. what specifically told mohammed -- actually, they knew all along they had -- they knew i was trying to build a future for myself, i like myself in kuwait. after this whole period he comes back to the u.k., then what happens is at first he tells ministry of what happened there with the deportation and then he gets a contact -- whatever efforts he is making to build a life for himself in kuwait are being stopped. on the face of it by the kuwaiti authorities, information he received from kuwait, it was at the behest of the british. at no point was he ever arrested or charged with any crimes. at the moment, we still haven't seen any actual evidence to suggest he is never been involved in any wrongdoing. nermeen: when did mohammed emwazi first get in touch with you, 2009? you maintained a correspondence with them until 2012, is that right? >> that is correct, yes. that correspondence, we published it online, the cage website, and you can see that he is trying to use all of the mechanisms in order to change the situation that he has. he did work in kuwait for about eight months. when his father requested he come back to the u.k. for a weekend in order to help them with family members, when he tried -- that is when his block happen. we put them in touch with lawyers and politicians, to his embassy, try to encourage them to use diplomatic means to get this resolved. we've reduced him to a journalist in order to publicly raise awareness about the difficulties he was having. what is interesting about all of that communication is in order to try to use the mechanisms to bring about a change in the situation, i think that is something that hasn't been really focused on here in the u.k. -- at least within the media, but this is a young man who didn't just let it go. he was trying very, very hard to bring about a change in his situation within the confines of the law. amy: let's return to the words of mohammed emwazi, or jihadi john. in this section of the audio that your group cage released, he recounts what he said when asked his opinion about jews as well as islam, and also explains how the agent responded at the end of the interrogation. >> he's like, what did you think of the jews? everyone has their own believe. he wants to know about my background. i told him, we don't force anyone to come into religion. i told him everything that is been happening is extreme. after all of this, he looked at me and he said, i still believe you're going to somalia to train. i said, after what i just told you, after i told you what is happening is extremism in this and that, you're still suggesting i am an extremist? he kept trying to put words in my mouth saying you're doing this and this and this and we're going to keep a close eye on you. amy: that was a recording cage made with mohammed emwazi when your first talking to him. if you could comment on that and then what happened in 2012, you said you were in e-mail contact with him, corresponding with him, then he abruptly -- did he just abruptly stop and this was the point he went on to isis? >> well, the reason why mohammed and his friends first came to me was because they had seen our involvement in raising the profiles of other individuals within his community that had been harassed for the reasons i set out already. they came to us. at that time, speaking -- i found these young men seem to be very, very genuine about their indignation, about the way they have been treated. they genuinely were giving me the impression at least that a wrongdoing had happened against them. they did not seem contrived in any way. i think this was quite important, for me, at least, that i felt like these were young men who needed help him and needed assistance and who also wanted to register and log their story because they had seen what was happening with others in a committee as well. the key to that, i never actually felt any kind of them expressing any opinions or beliefs but i thought, well, that is a bit controversial unlawful in some way, or might speak to certain mindset especially a mindset that was potentially going to show that would join the islamic state. i did not seen of those markers. i am someone who is dealing with the muslim community all the time. they're very honest with me about their opinions, with a believe in, even those who are sympathetic to isis and who are critical against the approaches i take, which is to work within the law and work within the system. they don't have any difficulty in expressing their views and beliefs to me. i don't think these young men were being contrived in any way. but i mean, going forward, that e-mail can medication happened for quite some time until -- can medication happened for quite some time until january 2012, which is the last time i met him. i am not sure why does he did not come back to me again. it is not after august 2013 that he leaves the u.k., but even in that 1.5 year period come he's still making efforts behind the scenes. nermeen: i want to ask about your exchange with boris johnson on his lbc phone-in. the mayor criticized your position on mohammed emwazi. this is part of what he said. >> i really, really think that the focus of your indignation and your outrage should be on people who go about to join groups that throw gays off cliffs, the had people that don't subscribe to their version of islam, that glorifying the execution of innocent journalists and aid workers. they should be the object of your wrath, not the securities services were trying to keep us safe. nermeen: that was london's mayor boris johnson speaking earlier this week. could you respond to what he said? also it you say when you were in touch with mohammed emwazi you saw no indications, no markers of a potential radicalization. so in your view, what happened in that period of time because it is quite a germanic shift than from 2009-2014 were we ended up seeing him go? >> to deal with a statement by the london mayor boris johnson first, we feel our position hasn't been understood. we have a great deal of indignation for anybody who has carried out acts of torture, rendition of traditional killings, but that includes isis, then yes, and if that includes jihadi john then, yes but our work started with the orange jumpsuits and guantanamo bay and our desire to see an end of the geneva conventions being flaunted by the u.s. government the way we saw the same orange jumpsuits being used by isis in iraq, we felt like we had responsibility as a consequence of the war on terror to speak out where we felt there were wrongdoing's taking place. i think the london mayor has really tried to fudge the issue. what we want to know about the security agency is some a there is a period mohammed emwazi is in the u.k., where he feels like he is constantly under threat constantly being harassed, and his communications not only with me but also with the reporter who he was having other e-mail exchanges with -- you know, they really show and speak to certain mindset that increasingly, he was of the opinion that he had no place to belong in this society. and that is a question we at cage are asking. that in this period, what is it about his interactions with the security agencies that made him feel like he did not belong? and the reason we want to ask that question is because if that contributed to him leaving the u.k. and then trying to find a sense of belonging elsewhere for example, with the islamic state, then we want to learn lessons from that so our youth in the u.k. don't repeat that process if they're going through similar forms of harassment. amy: let me ask you something. it is not only the london mayor who has attacked cage as you races questions, but amnesty international said earlier this week it is considering severing links with cage. john dalhuisen, amnesty's director for europe and central asia, put out a statement saying -- "we are currently undergoing a review of our policy regarding any future association with the group cage." in 2010, gita sahgal left a senior position at amnesty international over the group's association with cage. following the controversy over jihadi john, sahgal said -- "this is active promotion of a certain form of jihadism. there was an atmosphere where you were basically bound to see these not simply as people who were facing human rights violations, but people who should be listened to and followed. that's very disturbing." can you respond to what she said? >> that is completely incorrect. and try to mischaracterize what we're trying to do. the very important points we're trying to raise. they're always try to attack the personalities rather than taking on the issues that we are raising in the very important points we're trying to make. in terms of amnesty international, of course amnesty is an organization we have worked with closely in the past. we worked with him on a number of projects, but it is up to them whether or not they wish to continue working with us. as for us, we are one to just carry on doing our work, working with our communities that do feel they're being placed under undue suspicion, that are being abused by many different operators of the state. we have a responsibility to them to keep on working. if others work cooperatively with us, we welcome them. amy: risa prized mohammed emwazi is jihadi john? >> i really hope it turns out to be untrue, but if it is, not just surprised, really saddens me and i am -- asim qureshi, thank you for being with us research director , at the london-based prisoner advocacy group cage. when we come back, we go back 40 years, 1971, more than 40 years to the uprising at attica. we also look at what is happening at that prison today. the beating of a young prisoner who was honest been the death in 2011. today, just before the prison guards trial, they plead guilty. they will not spend time in jail. stay with us. ♪ [music break] >> amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. nermeen: more than four decades after the notorious uprising, the upstate new york prison attica is back in the news this week. three guards at attica prisoner have pleaded guilty to brutally beating an inmate, but they themselves will not spend time behind bars. sergeant sean warner, officer keith swack and officer matthew rademacher are accused of breaking both legs of george williams, as well as his shoulder, his eye socket and his ribs. the beating took place three years ago in front of other prisoners. but it only came to light when williams had to be taken to a hospital outside attica to treat his injuries. on monday, each guard pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of misconduct. in exchange for quitting their jobs, they were spared any jail time. they will also be allowed to keep their pensions. this marks the first time a prison guard in new york has been criminally charged with a nonsexual assault of a prisoner. it is also the first time in state history a guard has pleaded guilty to committing an unauthorized violent act against an prisoner while on duty. amy: more than 2,200 men are walled inside attica, and reports of guards using force against them are up 25 percent in the last four years. the maximum security prison has few security cameras, and prosecutors in the case say this has let guards and prisoners get away with violence. this is first assistant district attorney vincent hemming of wyoming county. crooks i do not fathom why we don't have cameras in the hallways of attica. cameras in attica protect both attica inmates and cushions officers. but it will check the truth more than anything else. amy: meanwhile, others have called for attica prison to be shut down. this comes as a fourth officer who beat williams saw his charges dropped after he testified before a grand jury, and is now back to work in his old job. all of this is detailed in an explosive new investigation headlined, "a brutal beating wakes attica's ghosts: a prison infamous for bloodshed, faces a reckoning as guards go on trial." it was reported by our guest tom robbins, with the marshall project, and published in collaboration with "the new york times." a big front-page spread on sunday. the marshall project is a nonprofit news outlet focused on criminal justice issues, and named after the late supreme court justice thurgood marshall. we are also joined by antonio yarbough, who served 20 years in attica prison. he was convicted for a triple murder he did not commit, and was released last year after he was fully exonerated. welcome both of you to democracy now! tom, let's begin with you on the williams case. just lay it out for us. >> this was an incident in the summer of 2011 that took place on c block antonio will tell you is one of the toughest places in attica. guards went to the cell of george williams, 29-year-old from new jersey, who is serving a two to four year sentence for robbing a couple of jewelry stores. took him down the hall to a day room and told him that they were bringing him there for a drug test. as he was walking into the room, he felt summoned clobber him on the ribs on the right side knocked him to the ground and then assaulted, pummeled by kick s and batons. he said someone jumped on his ankle. he said he open his eyes and saw an officer taking a step back, aiming a tick to his face. he said it was like getting a football punter -- incredibly brutal beating. his screams pleading for his life were so loud that inmate two floors below heard him. people i talked to a attica said, yeah, we heard him that night. about a day later after -- he was taken to solitary, initially. amy: than the guards said -- >> we're not going to take him in her life this, we're gone and taken to the infirmary. a nurse said, we can't handle him here, you have to go to an outside hospital. at the hospital, doctors had to use a plate and six screws to reset one of his legs. he was operated on. the thing that happened that was different with this case was that an investigation began. investigation began by the inspector general and state police joined it. it led, ultimately, the criminal charges filed by the district attorney in wyoming county where attica is located, a small rural community near buffalo. they charged four officers initially with gang assault which is a statute normally used against gangs inside a prison. they faced up to 25 years on that. there were also charged with felony counts of evidence tampering and mis-filings. the case lingered for about three years. nermeen: the officers claimed the justification for the beating was suspicion he had weapons on him? >> yes, that was the officers -- amy: what did prisoners say? they did this in front of a number of prisoners, right? >> prisoners relocated across the hall from the day room that were able to see what was going on. the prisoners described that they jumped on him as soon as he came in the day room. one of them said he counted as many as 50 kicks in a dozen thwacks from these long batons that the officers carry. another one said that george williams was picked up because he could not walk anybody was wearing a red shirt and then realized he was just trenched in blood. they also saw him brought to the stairs. when williams said, i can't walk down the stairs, my ankles are broken, he was shoved from behind. he was handcuffed so he fell down. at the bottom of the stairs, -- this is where the story gets worse. at the bottom of the stairs someone grabbed his head and smashed it against the wall and left him standing there for quite a long time. one of the rules in attica when you're taken to solitary, which was where the retaking him next they're supposed to be a camera crew, a separate detail of guards. he heard them shout, "the cameras are coming." one of the guards picked up a dirty wet mop and wiped his face. it is such a gruesome story. and what has really struck me in the time i spent in attica getting the story, it is not surprising to the inmates. they say it happens all the time. amy: explain how it went from felony charges of this gang assault today won't be serving any time in jail -- just this week, this plea bargain. >> there were innumerable hearings and changes in the case over the last three years. initially, it was thrown out on a technicality. it was represented to new grand jury by the district attorney up there. finally, ready for trial just last week. at the last minute him of the defendants decided they would take a deal that have been on the table for more than two years that provided for them no jail time in exchange for pleading guilty and quitting their jobs. essentially, the criminal sanction is very little. i jumped a turnstile 106 it and i got a conditional discharge as long as i stayed out of trouble for a year. i did not lose my job, but the district attorney in wyoming county was the first one to ever bring this case. it deftly took some nerve for them to do it. nermeen: what was george wayne's reaction to the settlement? >> clearly disappointment there was no gel time but i think he is relieved to put this line him. i don't think he was looking for to being on the stand and being grilled by top defense attorneys which the union had help these guards raise funds for. they were set to grow george and other witnesses. amy: before we go to the history, antonio yarbough you're quoted in tom's piece, you're at attica for how long? >> 20 years. amy: convicted of trouble murder, then fully exonerated and released. the c block thomas to scrubbing you lived on. >> know, but i did spend time in c. it depends the type of program you want to select while you were there. it puts you on any block they put you on. i worked at a metal shop onthe d block. you could work as a portal or school quarter or something like that. c block, no one really wants to go there. it is a laundry in the hospital, you know, go and work there. nermeen: could you describe what the conditions were inadequate for those 20 years -- and attica for this 20 years? >> it is a horrifying situation. you wake up not knowing what the day is going to bring you. but the person your lot nextthey have this kosher there that, this attitude that anyone who comes from the city -- i come from the city, the five boroughs. you're a gang member or you are there for what the paper says there therefore. the majority of the time, none of it is true or half is true. straight out the gate, they let you know what type of situation you are coming into. they let you know you're coming into a violent situation. whereas, if you come in their -- one of the first speeches i ever got if you eff up, you're going to get effed up. they tell you that right out of the gate. you do it officers tell you what to do and don't question them. you know what you're getting into or were you are going into the moment you arrive there. they take you, please to the side outside the presence of other inmates or prisoners and surround you with four or five guards saying -- they give you the threat speech right out the gate. you are ready know what you're entering the moment you get there. that is what happened with me. when i first arrived, i was 100 45 pounds soaking wet. i had never been in trouble. all of this stuff was -- you know the history of attica from watching the story about attica, the riot. going there, you get in there they lay a hammer down to let you know this is what it is will stop know what i'm saying? amy: tom, this history of attica the people all over the country may not know, what happened, another september 11 twin september nin9-13. >> one of the most hideous incidents i think in american history is certainly the last century, in inmate rebellion that took place amid a very restless, political summer in attica. inmates who were trying to petition the governor at the time for better conditions. they wanted more than one shower a week, more than one role of full of paper a month, the right to get letters written by family members. the guards were throwing them away. they wanted better education programs. there are asking for basic human right. tensions within the prison that summer around those issues because the governor and his corrections commissioner did not respond, eventually, spiked. one spot incident set off -- one small incident set off a riot september 9 that led, eventually -- there's a nexis of these four tunnels that crisscross in the middle of this huge institution. a caller times square. inmates are being brought back from breakfast that morning rioted and assaulted a guard in charge of the bubble, they call it, controlling the gates. he was fatally beaten. she died a couple of days later. his name was william win, the father of three little girls. they rampaged throughout the rest of the prison, took it over, took some 40 hostages initially. some were released because of their injuries but the standoff with the state police went on for the next four days until governor rockefeller decided to send in the troops. amy: they were negotiating aqsa, and asking governor rockefeller to come. >> that was the big demand, we want rockefeller to come here. one of before hostages named mike smith, who still lives just a few miles away from attica ribbon a guard, young first-year guard talked about how he is in a hostage at the time. there was a camera crew allowed in the yard is sunday night before the monday retaking. mike smith was put in front of the cameras and he said, governor, you need to get your ass here now. tom wicca wrote a marvelous book called "a time to die" that i commend -- everyone knew this would end terribly less someone intervene. there been virtually no planning as to how to do it, we later learned. amy: i want to go to the clip of him called "ghosts of attica." this is the story of the man you're talking about known as big black frank smith. yes died since. a prisoner who played a prominent role in the rebellion and who was tortured by officers, and liz fink, who served as the lead counsel for the former attica prisoners. >> everywhere you looked around, all you seen [indiscernible] >> people lying all over, bleeding and bloody and stuff. everybody know now that it is real, this is it. you know they are here now. there in the yard. they've got control. >> state troopers took their clubs and beat them down the stairs. grow people's legs broke to be as. on our back, on her head and genitals, on their front. wherever they could hit them that is where they beat them. >> on telling you, my name is being called, where is big black? get up, black. get up. they clipped me with a nigger stick. a club ask. he is a 38 in his hand. he hits my side, my back. he made me run with my hand on my head over to the side. before i got over there, two or three more corrections officers, then everybody is hitting me. amy: that was former attica prisoner frank "big black" smith. not to be confused with mike smith, who was a guard. tom robbins and antonio yarbough , thank you for being here. should attica be closed? >> there such festering fear at this place, it needs something very radical. closure would certainly be a good response. >> yes, it should be closed. amy: we will do part two of this discussion after the show and post it democracynow.org. we will link to the major new york times piece tom robbins has written. he works now with the marshall project. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. 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