in a state of, let's say high alert right now. the university of maryland, baltimore, has been shut down, in the middle of all of this. milwaukee county sheriff david clark, dr. alveda king joining us right now. dr. king the niece of martin luther king, taking all of this in. you had written a letter to the mayor, trying to urge caution here and to dial that language back. >> i was trying to explain to the mayor and i hope she got it it's an open letter on social media. maybe the viewer can help us get that to her. of you look at those children throwing the rocks and the anger and then being stirred on by outside agitators. in the 1960s the children's march, we were calm, we were orderly, we were prayerful and so we knew how to demonstrate peacefully. no one has instructes these young children. then the mayor gives an invitation to destroy and economically and morally that's disaster and i don't know if she -- if she is the head of the city she should be thinking. >> she did use the line a couple of times enough space for those who want to destroy. what do you think she meant by that? >> i'm trying to wrap my head around it. i it just doesn't make sense. if she is saying there will be people who want to destroy, we need to be prepared and be ready, that's one thing. but that's not what she said. make space for those who want to destroy. get out of the way of the destruction? i'm trying to understand what that means. >> sheriff david clark, if you're with me here, obviously the signal went out through the local police force not to look too aggressive, not to look like you would be in the protesters' face, they got that. but does that then put this situation and make it even more alarming? >> sure does. thanks for having me. how are you doing dr. alveda king? >> hi, sheriff. >> when i heard the comment by the mayor i thought has this mayor lost her mind? basically sanctioned a riot. thuggery rioting looting is felonious behavior there can be no daylight between what proper behavior is in these situations, socially acceptable behavior, and criminal conduct. once the rocks and bottles are being thrown, all bets are off. i expect the police in baltimore, baltimore's finest, by the way -- to be reasonable but i expect it to be aggressive assertive, and to send a message to reiters and looters, you're going to lose and we're going to win. >> how do you convey that message now in the middle of this? >> well, first of all, heard reports that the mayor had -- the governor, anyway, of maryland sent the national guard for standby it's a call she has to make but this thing -- as you can see today compared to yesterday these things grow out of control as the day goes on, and as the hours go by, because they're not sending a message. no fault of the boot more police they're acting on ordered. you cannot appease these individuals. you cannot an witness -- cap pit few late to this looting and as soon as you scene the message there will be consequences, lawful consequences, but i expect them to act aggressively and assertively for the law-abiding people. the many law-abiding people in baltimore. i want to give kudos to the gray family for the message they sent yesterday, condemns this felonious conduct. my thoughts and prayers are with them and god rest his soul, freddie gray. the process will work in baltimore. these clowns are not given a chance for the process to work. they don't care about the process. they're exploiting a situation tragic situation here. i don't know what happened with freddie gray and his contact with the police, but time will tell. >> al vote tacoma i'm hearing that the reverend al sharpton plans to visit baltimore this week. i don't know if he is there today. doesn't look like it. but has come at the invitation of reverend lesley west who has been an active spokesman on behalf of the gray family doom you worry that too many chefs are getting into what gets to be a very, very hot kitchen? >> well, again first i echo with sheriff the family is the first consideration and our hearts hearts and prayers are we them. the reverend sharp shawn no justice no peace going back to 2015 no peace no justice. there are too many and if they're going to be -- rabble-rousing. i you want teens how to protest peacely, visit our web site. >> a lot of them are angry they still have no adequate explanation as to why freddie gray died in police custody. and even to this hour we have gotten scant details on that. there might be perfectly good reasons i'm unaware of. do you think that feeds this? >> sheriff clark i cone want to put you on the spot. we need the answer us but isn't it true it takes time to get answers? the sheriff can explain why. we can't rush to justice without having the right information. >> that's a very good opinion. that triggered a lot of the -- that we were nothing -- shortly after the funeral, any reason given to why there was this funeral today, and why predie gray is -- freddie gray is dead. mights be perfectly sound reasons. do you question the timing of the funeral on this monday? should it have been over the weekend? should the police have had more answer than they did and in that vacuum maybe unintentionally triggered this? >> when the funeral was held was up to the family. i want to be sensitive to that. these things take time. i've worked homocide investigations for a number of years. they're painstaking investigations you. can leave no stone unturned. you have to talk to all the people involved. you have to look at all the evidence. you have fountain everything together. interview as men people as you. the double edged sword if you rush oust with a determination early on, you're going to get claims you rushed into this and just rushed over it to get something out here, and then people aren't going be happy as well. the police need to be allowed and the prosecutors in baltimore there need to be allowed the time -- i understand the -- as more time goes on, people get nor frustrated, but there's a socially acceptable way to deal with frustration and it is not rioting, looting and not throwing rocks and bottles and bricks at the law. officers who are trying to protect and defend that city for the law-abiding people. people at the orioles game yesterday were held hostage due to some of the rioting going on. those are the people that need to be thought of right now. not the rioters and looters and the quicker -- the sooner that baltimore police can get their arms around this thing and restore order -- that's job one right now restore order and don't worry about the optics. >> we have a local -- >> expect to be reasonable. >> we have a local reporter on the scene from wbff. >> -- in a confrontation with police at this hour. >> watch out! >> we're going to walk this way. >> we did -- i think he is interview something witnesses. >> to give you a vantage point on the other side here. police doing what they can to keep order. police advancing now. they're advancing. advancing on the crowd. brian, walk this way. they're advancing on the crowd. you can see the teenagers as police advance -- they run away, bricks and rocks still incoming here. of course we're doing our best not to be part of the problem. we're move though right here. we don't want to be tarring. at one point they were throwing rocks at the media as well. in fact, one journalist, he identified himself as rob from a european news outlet, someone hit him in the mouth. he helped him over to police to get some aid. he was bleeding from the mouth. to the left here you see police still advancing on the crowd. trying to get things under control here. you have people on their poaches, on their stoops, watching this unfold in front of their homes. there's the journalist i was referring to, the gentleman with the red hair there. there's the gentleman who was hit earlier today by a demonstrator. he does not want to talk to the media. he say he is okay but swounds just walked up to him and decked him. for lack of a better word. but he is okay now. police now using pepper spray to try to do what they took disperse the crowd. we're just going to let these pictures unfold in front of us just for a moment. [shouting] >> sheriff clark of you're still with us, a lot of things hang in the balance here. they shut down the university of maryland baltimore a big baltimore orioles game tonight. you mentioned one last night that was disrupted when people tried to leave and account. it wasn't very safe. this game tonight -- what do you do? how would you advise that? advise the orioles cancel play tonight? >> for the safety over the fans i think they have to unfortunately. public safety comes first. the thing that, like baltimore like ferguson, like new york and many other areas failed liberalolicies have led to high unemployment, chronic poverty, failing schools. this is what besets the baltimore area. 90% of the homocide victims in the baltimore area are black and as are 90% of the suspects. that's a bigger problem than freddie gray. i'm not trying to dismiss the death of freddie gray but these individual that are riot and can looting and throwing rocks and bottle does not know freddie gray do not care about freddie gray and if they were in a nightclub in baltimore would shoot and kill them for bumping into them on the dance floor. that's not an overstatement. just the slightest provocation and these individuals are so willing to settle disputes with violence. that's what we're seeing play out here right now in baltimore. >> you know, alveda, i'm sure you growing up and of course your dad and your uncle, martin luther king, they had seen and were part of demonstrations that became very violent triggered by little more than one important who throws a rock and every just ensues. as you are looking at this, what do you tell the kids? some of them are young, they're kids. they're angry. they're mad. in an area that has high unemployment. youth unemployment. five times the national rate. what do you tell them? >> young people do. >> want to speak directly to you. if the young people would seek out mentors mentor and counselors. listen to sheriff clark but the skin color doesn't matter. it's the message that matters and find someone who cares about you, young people. if you would find someone who cares about you, who is interested in you. during my early days when daniel williams came to my dad and martin luther king, my done uncle,ing that taught it nonviolin conflict resolution and taught to us use our prayers and words. we know young people need education, jobs, safety, medical help, all of that, but you won't get it by throwing rocks at officers. >> a lot of those same kids are the ones saying freddie gray was nonviolent. we don't know the details. we do know whatever information we have gotten from police, he did not instigate anything. >> can we ask people to wait for details? ask people not to rush to justice? can we please emphasize that? >> what do you emphasize when you look at this, sheriff who just jumped into the car there? all right. one of the protesters jumped into this vehicle. police are on the scene. they're going to obviously -- as we're watching this, sheriff they're going to have to reinforce themselves here. deal with this, or could bed lamb. then the issue is go to far and it could be a nightmare. how do you play it? >> well, i'd rare err on the side of caution. a decision the baltimore mayor has to make, but better sooner than later. as we saw in ferguson the mayor did not pull the trigger soon enough on calling out the national guard that things just got worse. they have to restore order. it's job one. utilize all the resources reasonable -- i want it to be reasonable by law enforcement. but the optic is wouldn't be concerned about right now. i'd be more concerned with the law-abiding people, protecting property and law-abiding people in the ball more area. >> we're told that some of the shutdowns and not complete shut downs of the university of maryland about at the baltimore campus, that light rail and buss into and out of downtown have been canceled. routes 893 and 395 major arteries into and through the city of ball more are closed, and all of this is social media -- this is interesting -- have been calling for riots, in other words egging this on. >> and as social media calls for riots, it's shutting down the economy. people can't go to school, can't go to work, can't get to church to pray, can't get to the grocery store. a little baby may me lung degree somewhere and mom can't tout get the food to feed the baby. so the consequences must be considered. i'm just asking, did the mayor think about that when she invited -- i don't want to see incited. we're not 100% sure of the motive -- but when she invited violence violence begets violence and as sheriff clark says, we want to do everything possible so that these triggers don't have to be pulled. but the leaders must now speak out. we on the ground, we have leaders in baltimore, i believe i'll go to baltimore. i'm planning to do that. but we need to pray, and we need to be reasonable. >> i'm wondering too sheriff if you're still with me here, this funeral today freddie gray's funeral attracted a number of white house officials the governor of maryland, mayor of baltimore police chief of baltimore and surrounding communities. it was to put it mildly, star-studded police cal and dem -- political event and whether that made it even bigger and more of a focus maybe justifiably so but it became a lightning rod for all the attention it was getting. >> i don't know if i'd say that. this is mindless behavior by these young people that you're describing here. dr. king, my advice is get town there and beat al sharpton down there. >> i'll do my best. >> we have rod wheeler with us, former homocide detective. you're on the ground, rod. what do you do? >> this is a situation that is really growing out of control. as you have been talking about. i was in baltimore yesterday and actually i'm getting ready to head back up to baltimore this evening because what i see happening today is a stark contrast from what i saw happening yesterday. there were some protests yesterday. there was a baseball game yesterday evening as well. and we saw the protests but we didn't see the violence like we see it now. so something has happened between yesterday and today. now, another thing that's very interesting, i was just reading and hearing about a group called the bdf the black gore -- black guerrilla family and have called for attacks on police officers in baltimore. it's suspicious the call came out from he bgf just today and now we see the riots itch think what we're seeing enough is going to get worse before it gets better. >> they've actually entered that group and crip gangs and the like into a contract to attack police. you hear that kind of stuff alveda -- >> i have two many friends who are law enforcement officers. my radio co-host is one. listening now to the sheriff for over in new york, the chief there, and so this is not even -- even when police are abusive and violent there's some very small number, all police officers are not like that. they understand their job is to protect and to enforce the law. they want to protect the citizens and enforce the law. so they are not the enemy. it does -- sometimes you have to clean house. and if the wrong element is in there and in those positions there's always been corruption within these departments but you clean it up. you don't attack the whole organization. >> well to say it's become a tension convention there is an understatement. i want to dip into the reporter at the scene where police are massing right now. >> we're following safely behind were we do see a crowd now at the end but it seems like they're walking -- they're in that direction. police officers holding the line now here. and again waiting and watching for anymore outbreaks of violence here. for the moment the rock -- go ahead, jennifer? they're moving away from the mall. looks like toward -- as you go into the direction of mlk. i'm turned around in termites north, east, south. i'm thinking -- yes going south. they're moving south down resy terss town road. you can see where some of the young people are come frog. that direction, that side street. i'm too far away. i can't tell what street that is. they're coming down now the side street but they're walking away from the police officers so for now seems like things are pretty much under control. no one throwing things at this moment jennifer. >> we're continuing to watch this. you have seen all of this, sheriff david clark there was an incident earlier today when the protest ares were -- protesters were throwing rocks at the police and some case the police threw rocks back at the protesters. what drew become that hat and how to do you advise police react that kind of stuff? >> miss message and advice to baltimore is act reasonably. i don't know about throwing the rocks back. but put your training to use. act with courage honor integrity, and utilize your training follow your orders, but more than anything else, get that thing under control for the law-abiding people, discovery whelming majority of good law-abiding people in the city of ball more. >> rod wheeler has been watching this. protesters want to egg the authorities on, and the authorities some of them aren't able to put up with all of this happening so fast, it's confusing. so, in the middle of that, what do you do? do you advise them or -- let's say you advising the kids to cool it to hold back, calm down, or if you're the authorities the police, the s.w.a.t. team, do you have to respond aggressively? >> they have to respond aggressively. what we're seeing now on the screen and what has been going on for the past hour, hour and a half, police don't have a choice in this matter. now, one other thing i just learn while was on hold here. the state police here in maryland have been called out. a couple of my neighbors are state police officers and they just took off at a hey high rate of speed. that's interesting because what that tells me is that -- i kind of thought this -- the baltimore police is waiting for reinforcement, and i know the state police is heading down that wail now. that's what we're going to see in a little bit. probably an hour. they'll have to get this under control because it won't stop if they don't. this is a very violent -- >> shouldn't be waiting. >> say that again? >> i'm sorry i'm sorry for talk over you. saying they shouldn't have to wait. they should have already been in place. >> the weren't sheriff. that's the concern right? >> neil, yesterday the state police were on alert but today they were not. >> i don't nope what that means. >> reporter: but they are on their way down there now. the protests last night wasn't as violent as everybody anticipated. that's why they called them if a. >> but are you don't gate second chance to make a first impression. isn't that the worry obviously they were caught, surprised by this issue it would appear. sheriff? >> i heard that according to the news reports there that things are starting to calm down a little bit after the initial burst. now the state police are on the sway. don't want to be overcritical but a you have too have the resources marshaled already and ready to go so when you turn the button on, they're right there. on the way down is a day late and a dollar short. i have to have some question about these strategic operational decisions going on right there i don't know all of it but if i hear people are on the way, i'd say where were you when we needed you. >> this could be a long night there maybe they get things under control enough manpower to contain this but it could be a very tense night and a lot of people like the cover of darkness. i'm wondering how you advice those who want to come out and seeing these images, feel emboldened to come out. don't like the way police have been treating protesters. you knee know. >> i was just thinking as i was watching this, i'm parent and a grandparent. if i'm looking at television and i see one of my children on there i'm paying their telephone bill? i'm going to say hey get home now, i'm paying this phone bill. and this is where you live. get here. and for the parents to begin to talk to those young people, grandparents and aunties and uncles, and for those in this evening, if you want to do something, if you feel that injustice is occurring in your community, then do that peacefully. congregate together. there's safety in numbers. but do it reasonably. and that is where sheriff clarke, i believe is saying when he is saying, go with your training, to the law enforcement. use your training new orleans it your emotions. don't let your adrenaline kick you into retaliating and not following the training you have. >> judge andrew napolitano joins us right now. this is obviously a developing crisis here, and then they don't want it to become a bigger crisis in baltimore. but earlier today this. authorities have to be careful not trampling on the folk's right to protest but the fine line when they start trampling period. >> there are a lot of legitimate protesters there, with a lot of legitimate beefs. there are also people there with no legitimate beefs who want to use the chaos of the moment to advance their political cause which i'm sorry to say is decidedly antipolice. we can't live without the police. these people are crazy but they're entitled to express this view. you're quite right there are no words that anyone is going to utter there that are themselves actionable but when they start throwing rocks and destroying property and endangering the lives of others? a. no -- and the police have to do what they have to do. you have serious law enforcement folks on the set with us and they know better than i what the protocol is. the protocol is to arrest those who are causing the most harm and not bus of their words about because of their physical harm. >> you know, sheriff you're watching this as well as i am but they're back to throwing rocks again and that is a provocative act i assume. so, how do you respond to that if you're on the scene with the s.w.a.t. team there? >> aggressively asian certaintively, reason my, lawfully, and sending a message to these rioters thing goons -- >> they're hopping on a police car now. >> that has to stop. >> that is textbook bad to do in the middle of an engagement here. go ahead. >> i think it's important to point out that when you talk about peaceful protesters, those are the smart people. when all hell breaks legalization they get out of breaks loose they get out of the. the only left are the agitators and troublemakers and they're easy to sort out. >> you do not think there are policemen in that vehicle? >> the parents need to get their children home. call them home. >> dr. king, get down there quick. >> i'll do what i can. >> just to bring folks back to looking into this, but a number of agitators are already working from outside the area to keep this going. the black guerrilla family, bloods and crip gangs in the area have been contacting -- send ought messages to go ahead and attack police. social media has been actively involved with similar interest, calling for riots in and around the baltimore area. judge napolitano, if you're still with us, this gets gets into slippery legal private territory to start snooping on social media and seek these people out how far do you go? >> i doubt the baltimore police are in a police to snoop on social media but social media is a means of expression, and as wrong as it is to encourage these people to riot, the same advocacy of rioting is not a crime. but what is a crime is what we are withing now. that's not freedom of expression. that's destruction of property. destruction of government property. impairing the ability of government to protect people and the police can't be everywhere. they're obviously watching what we're watching. they've obviously decided there's greater harm going on they're going to stop but this has to stop. so listen, you cannot stop the agitator from saying, do this or that but you can lawfully stop people from following the agitatessor's command when what he commands is unlawful. one of the reasons we did not see this in south carolina is because the cop was charged right away. why no one has been charged? this guy has been dead for a week. he obviously was killed by the hands hands of he police why no one has become charge he wouldes probable my what is providing the ginup to these people doing what they're doing. >> judge, theirs is al rita. if somebody saying burn, baby, burn in a very incorrectful way you can't somebody picks up a fire bomb and begins to burn, then you can prosecute the fire bomber. >> absolutely. >> we need to tell people, if somebody is saying something that is inappropriate -- >> disregard that. >> cause you to act in a certain way, pay attention. >> if someone were to say that on a social media cite, this is what want you to do is that behavior that choo shoo -- police should crack down on and find who wrote that and sent that out. >> seems like the judge is saying people can say what they want to say maybe even on social media -- >> well, social media is protected. i if you say burn, baby, burn, on social media that's protected. i you say bern burn-baby burn, at the scene we're watch right no and someone does burn and responds to those words those words can be the basis for a prosecution. >> okay, thank you. >> i just want to bring up -- we're half past the hour here in baltimore, maryland, occurring on the same day of the funeral for freddie gray, the 25-year-old african-american who was arrested by police and then died had his spine broken. we're not sure of the detail of the events. now you can see a s.w.a.t. team is brought in outside a car and now they're taking down the protesters. a former police commissioner ed davis on the phone. the drew the line, i imagine commissioner trying to destroy police vehicle whether someone wag in that vehicle or not, right? >> right. that's exactly what i happening now. we would refer to this as a mobile field force that is moving in to make arrests and you can see that there's one suspect which has been apprehended there. but when this starts to get out of control to this opinion it's really important to be assertive and make some arrests and clearly crowd out so that people are being held conditionable for their actions. it's certainly -- in a situation where the local police department is the focus for the protests, there has to be a lot of restraint shown on the part of the police, and i know commissioner batts a very good and smart police official -- >> excisioner, i hate to interrupt you. we are getting from local police a press conference right now on developments. let's listen in. >> the situation it's still happening weapon. we know that stenof our officers right now have been injured. the exact circumstances that took place that led to their injuries something we'll determine at a later date. we'll go back and do an investigation and find the people responsible and we will put enemy jail. nods nod -- nods nod question. >> right now it's a group of lawless individuals with no regards for the safety of the people who live in the communities or the assist oft our police officers police officers who are there to ensure that the people who live and work in that area can do so safely. break nod questionbreak. >> i don't know who is out there right now. this is something we can determine as the event goes on '. do know they're criminals. they attacked officer is without prove provocation. our officers are working hard to bring about order. [inaudible] >> we're not going to speculated what is it related to. we're dealing with a situation. you can hear officers responding. right now our focus is make sure that people that live in that community are safe and our officers are safe. nods nod. >> i don't have an estimate of the size right now. obviously it's a large group of people spread out over a significant area. our officers deploying is a quickly as they can. our primary concern is make sure our officers stay safe. we have seven officers who were injured during the course of this. they have broken bones one of them is unresponsive. this is not okay. our officers went out to that situation to make sure that the people who live in that community were safe, and we're going to continue to do what can to make sure the people stay safe. we have that obligation to the city. [inaudible] >> i don't want to speculate about any correlation. this more than we received a threat run through our intelligence section that threat was determined to be credible, so we took the appropriate precautions of ensuring that information was not only distributed internally to officers here but to law enforcement agencies nationwide. [inaudible] >> i'm sorry? [inaudible] >> what type of preparations they're take through the night? >> it's too early to know that. officers are responding to that location. we're doing what we do no n these teen of situations to bring about order. you'll see tear gas and pepper balls and use appropriate methods to enshire the safety of the community. nods nod nods nod >> i don't want to get into this. we're in the middle shove situation. we need to let people in the community know we're doing what welcome to ensure their safety. we are sending extra resources and making sure the neighbor is safe, the people trying to get home from working do so peacefully. >> bricks, rock, what war they hurt with. >> we know that the are our officers are in harm's way and seven have been injured. you'll see us use appropriate measures like tear gas and pepper balls. as we're able to provide more information later in the night we'll do so. thank you very much. [inaudible] >> captain eric kowalczyk. now, please keep up with the social media sites. we'll give real-time updates on twitter and facebook. >> you have heard of the number of policemen who been injured some with broken bones. we know this alta king has gone from bad to worse. they hope to contain if. the s.w.a.t. team rave arriving. it gets to the point where unless it's stopped it gets worse. >> we're saying to the community now, one of those seven is unresponsive. that means unconscious. and the outcome of where that officer still will be is not determined yet. so these are people who have put their lives on the line, to now protect the community. we said there may be some bad apples some bad seeds in the barrel so you clean that out and take it out. but you do not attack the whole department. the whole organization that is charged with and willing to protect. i saw the officers coming down the steps. putting on their helmet. i saw female, male, disth -- ethnicity. so to attack all police officers, heat not -- when the sun goes down, a different world -- >> this is the second vehicle that has been targetedded by protesters but now the baltimore police are trying to get on top of that by not even counting them -- letting that happen so you'll see them arrive their put an end to that. also saying you'll see tear gas and pepper balls. we're going to use appropriate methods. i have on the phone with us, former baltimore police commissioner ed davis on what they got to do and how far they got to do. what do you think? >> this is an extremely troubling development here. there's no skirmish line set up no particular focus of this attack that is occurring that seems to be roving gangs run from block to block which makes it very difficult for police to address it. there's a good number of officers out there. but right now there's sort of running from pocket to pocket, trying to put out the fire, and it's a very difficult situation. >> can i ask him a question, please? >> sure. we have alveda king here, commissioner. >> commissioner, if i'm hearing what you saying and we look back at figureson, the business owners and sometimesriders will fire bomb your business. what is the safest thing for a business owner to do? you make sure you have an alarm system or something or close up your business. i'm not sure how wise it is to stay in your business and protect yourself. so what would these business owners do in these communes and people -- the residents of the community. please stay home. don't get out in the middle of this. but what should a business owner do now? >> well, cooler heads need to prevail here. we need to have community leaders step up and try to take some of the heat from this situation right now and try to calm it down. business owners should probably close up shop and vacate the area. but when you see these incidents occurring in a street where traffic is going by you have potential victims there and traffic, and in a situation where they're focused on a police cruiser know in a mob situation like this, because i've seen this happen, after they're done with the police cruiser they start to look around for other places, and tragically businesses are targets. so that's why it's critical for police to come in and take charge of this right you. >> excisioner, we're hearing the baltimore police department did try to put out the warning today, knowing of freddie gray's funeral. it could be a tense day to put it mildly. they scheduled activities appropriately that if you didn't have to do business in the area, the better part of valor would be not. to the university of maryland at baltimore was closing today at 2:00 p.m. we heard that t rowe price the big financial company also shut down business earlier and those that had offices or anything to do with the area all cut back on activity. do you -- is that what you have to do? in other words stay out of the area and just avoid it at all costs? >> i think these very good advice for anyone in baltimore right now. and it's also an indication that the officers need to be prepared for any event allity. when you have simmering unrest, it's better to err on the side of having too many officers there. so that you can move quickly and decisively when something like this starts to break out. and you can see that happening now. the officers are coming together and going to the scene of where the violence is occurring and making arrests and you can stand back when it's violent -- nonviolent protest when it's people expressing their constitutional rights, but when the bottles and rocks start to fly and police officers and innocent civilians are being injured, then you have to move quickly to establish control. >> i believe a reporter at the scene is talking to a number of witnesses at the scene. let's listen in. >> and having this type of uprising, what we -- >> to be clear, that extreme on whose part? >> extreme on the community's part. the officers are only doing what they need to do to protect the community, and we can't expect them to do no more. but these children don't realize how dangerous this can be and we're going to wind up having more victims as opposed to solutions. >> you mentioned the victims and that's a very good point. no one seems to have a clear understanding as to where they came from, why they are here, but we do know one thing for sure, they are in fact causing an uproar here and they are engaged in a dangerous situation with police. >> pretty dangerous situation and they don't realize the magnitude of that situation. and i would hate to see it happen. however, i don't think the message will get through until something extras rick does happen. >> one theft residents who lived in this neighborhood, his insight on what is happening here. we're moving forward now as its looked like again police are holding their position here. you have neighbors looking out from what is going on from the steps of their home. this is happening in a neighborhood and an active neighborhood. people live here. and all of this is happening in their neighborhood. police are asking us to move out of the way now. asking us to move out of the way. we dope want to impedes their progress. >> moving to at vans on the demonstrators, watch this up here. people moving back, police are moving people back, including -- >> we're showing you the scene earlier today when this police squad car was attacked by protesters. there was no officer at the time. i apologize for that. there have been followup attacks on other employ police vehicles throughout the region as well, what is an eight-block region chat has grown to some 25 blocks. but we do not that light rail and buses into the downtown baltimore area have been cancelled going in and out and highway routes 83 and 395 have been closed the university of maryland hat baltimore has stopped running, its doors are no longer open for business, the same with t. rowe price and a host of other businesses in the area that decided to shut down. a former, in city police detective on the phone with us right now. bo you're the police guy on the scene in the middle of all of this. they're throwing rocks at you turning squads cars upside down. >> the most important thing you have to realize -- i saw video from saturday night outside the ballpark when they were a lot offing stores, smashing windows in police cars. they should have been a little more prepared today for the fact that they knew it was still going to come. when you get a crowd like there is you get brave riff with numbers and have to disspeakers the crowds immediately. you must use tear gas. once you disperse them the tough guys become the little boys they are, they have toughness when they're in a gang. the most important thing is you can't let them get together and keep that gang together because that's when the bravery comes out you. must disspeakers. the right away. when the mayor came out with the state, let them disease destroy things and give them an opportunity to destroy things, that was a wrong precedent. now some of those guys know the cops are not going arrived them so they're doing what they can. >> that's coming right from the mayor. stephanie rawlings-blake put out an urgent -- >> she said, she said, give. the space if they're going to destroy is the word she used. they've given that precedence. the word is out on the street we're not going to get arrested. now these kids by themselves who are not tough guys, when they get into a gang, they become a gang tough and have to disburse that right away and when you're throwing those rocks at cops there, that cop is not responsive, that cop could be in a coma. they're using deadly physical force against those cops. i'm sorry to say -- i don't want to say it -- but the word should go out if they're going to assault cops then cops will use deadly physical force and bring peace back to that community and people that live there they're the people that are suffering right now. they can't good out of their houses. the cops there are to get bias and bring calm to the community. if the copes were wrong and the guy was killed by the cops, the trials, the courts will reveil. you can't get justice by doing these animalistic things and this if savagery there. theser animals. >> we were showing to the police with the handcuff-like devices getting them ready to take in protesters on the scene. looked like they were making them by the dozens. al vote tacoma obviously things escalating. >> it is escalating because the mayor, the figure of authority said it's okay. we -- >> she dialed it back in i haven't heard anything since. >> i have not heard it. i've been checking. all the way through to make sure -- to try to interpret. if you say we're going to give you room to destroy that's exactly what they're doing. and thahat's the -- >> sounds like she said the wanted to let them ven not knowing that's a license to do -- >> it's not only a license but look how expensive. police cars charge he would. police officers harmed. young people are there just totally lawless right now. the people in the community can't leave their houses. >> you agree with that reference, people don't realize -- >> they don't know. >> what's driving them? >> i don't -- i believe there's some outside agitators as i'm watching that, that is inciting that riot. young people are emotional and someone is stirring that up -- >> might have been the mayor. this is theing about the day and what was an opportunity for protesters to essentially vent. this is the mayor of baltimore on some recommendations for protesters. >> we trade to make sure that they were protected from the cars and the other things going on. we also gave those who wished to destroy space to do that as well. >> what do you think of that? >> i'm watching the mayor. i'm listening to the mayor. for those who wish to destroy we need to give. the space. here i am again. aim a mother and grandmother. i'm not giving my kids room destroy the house. no you live here, i'm paying the billsor, gore to follow the law and now they're adults and they're children. who is the officer who is just saying they're little boys boys and you need to get them back to that state and break the gang up. >> bo. >> you were so right about that. the authority must now stand north in a violent way oar hurtle way. we don't expect officers to really hurt those young people necessarily, but they can be stopped. and they must be stopped. i do agree with that. >> bo, alveda was mentioning the role of social media has played in this. we don't how much of a role but we see smoke from the area. we have been told the police are going to use tear gas and anything to quell this. what do you make of that? the influence of outside groups agitating these kids in an environment where unemployment is high, frustration is high, anger is high. >> is was watching a video from saturday night and there was the urge suspects. the ones that come in new york here the agitators were there and i saw -- it's just funny to see these white guys, that's all if got say, 6 white guys with ban danes -- bandanas over their faces. they're trying to stir up the young killeds and make it like it's right. on top when then bloods and the crips come out and now do we remember where that creep came from that killed our two new york city cops? came from baltimore. now we are giving them another signal that it's okay to go kill some cops now because it's justice, and you're taking justice. like that idiots that came from baltimore who we wouldn't repeat his name, who assassinated these young cops here in new york. i just pray to god this doesn't happen in baltimore. >> bo, do the parents understand how dangerous the environment is for their children? parents, if you have kids out there you need to get them out of there. >> better get on your cell phone. every kid has a cell phone and you tell them to get their butts back into the house. right now the kids, not knowing what they're doing and someone is going to get hurt really bad or maybe someone ills is going get killed. these young kids have to go home and they're parents should be out there grabbing them by the ear and pulling them back into the house. >> by the way the precipitation for this was the funeral for freddie gray, the african-american male what was taken by police into custody and died in custody. his spine was broken. police have still not detailed how that happened, why that happened or why that young man was arrested and the fact that in this vacuum we have the those protests, some said that's no surprise. just added to the angst. very hard to say. no excuse for violence begetting violence sergeant ed mullins with us right now. do you think in that vacuum that it just -- it fed this, and that police should have either come out with a timeline or explanation what happened to freddie gray and why or something, rather than just nothing. >> i agree. i think you have to come out with some kind of information. lack of information indicates or at least creates a perception of create the perception that something has been covered up and in south carolina they came out right away. they did an investigation and the facts are clear. commissioner kelly in the past has come out right away. and almost to a fault at times where it backfired on him. but he was able to keep the community unrest from happening. so it's important to establish trust and, you know try to prevent what we are watching happening. >> i'm sure when you were growing up and your dad and uncle and martin luther king that they would always say and i'm quasi quoting your uncle. forgive me if i got it wrong. be provocative but don't provoke. that's very hard in the real-live fiery, smoky, middle of the battle situation. >> my cousin bernice and i, we talked about all of these things and it's really difficult in the heat of the fire. . but i'll be honest with you, my heart sank when i heard about this recent incident. we don't know what happened. i'm not going to rush to judgment. >> absolutely. >> but it's heartbreaking and with leadership and clear thinking and all of the law enforcement people everybody that had us here today, they are very clear-thinking individuals and they know how to make the world a better place. it's very good advice that they are giving today. and so my uncle, if he were here my dad were here, he would say, don't riot. go home and pray. they would both say that. that would be their answer. and there's a difference between a rioter and demonstrator. a boycotter may say, i'm not going to shop at your store but he wouldn't pick up a bomb and throw it through your window. i see a car burning on the screen. that's just absolutely wrong. >> you mentioned all of the businesses that have either had to scale back or shut down today and this is a blighted community, at least for young african-american males, unemployment is much higher than the national average. when you look at a situation like this when the situation becomes even worse and as these arrests build up and we'll see many many of them there, the police are going to have a no nonsense no-debating policy with this. >> nightfall is coming. it's very soon. they've got to break this up now because when nightfall comes, then all of a sudden you can hide with the darkness of night, they have to disperse this and separate those crews and have to have these cops and should bring in the state troopers and they should bring in the national guard for dispersement and get these crowds off the street before something more serious happens. >> what do you think happens if they don't do that? by might fall what happens? >> it's going to get worse at nighttime. they all want to be part of this. it's like a big game out there. it's like the bizarre is going on. let's see the worst thing that i can do. kick the front tearires of a cop car. >> i'm seeing some arrests neil. >> yes. we saw them making -- >> that's different. >> they are using temporary handcuffs to bring them into custody. >> yep. >> sheriff clark, if you're still with me we're also getting reports that the fbi's office is working closely with baltimore police department. how does that go down and who calls the shots, no pun intended in that event? >> well if the fbi is involved i guess it's a decision they get to make but they have to keep their powder dry first and let the local departments do their investigations. when you have simultaneous and parallel investigations sometimes signals can get lost. looking at the photos of that squad car on fire there, it's very disheartening to the men and women who put this uniform on every day. i question why those vehicles were in a location that could be attacked like that. we had a situation similar to that in milwaukee, wisconsin, in december. it didn't turn into a full-blown riot but one of my first orders was to prevent police property. i didn't want any scenes on tv of a squad car being turned on it is side or set on fire like that. not real satisfying to officers. or the american public at large that is watching this and wondering, does anybody there have a handle on this thing? are they going to be able to get their arms around this thing? the people of baltimore need confidence that their officials -- and i don't mean the police on the street. i'm talking about the city officials are going to be able to get this thing under control. we hear so much about first amendment right to protest. this isn't peaceful protests. there are also first amendment rights for business owners. what about the businesses that have to shut down? what about the game that was supposed to go on tonight? >> that's a very good point. >> those people have constitutional rights too. and they need to be protected as well. there's a balance here but we always hear about the right to protest. >> you think that they are going to go to the game tonight, neil? do you think you would go to the game tonight with this going on? >> if there is even a game tonight. i'm watching this and i'm seeing some of the shots of the kids some look no older than my 12 or 13-year-old kids. >> i'm wondering if somebody else on the show can help me with this question. maybe the judge or somebody. can police officers go to assemblies at the school he a talk to the young children at the school in an assembly and explain what the job of the police department is and, as you've been talking, sheriff, our chief about this. so the public needs to be aware. the young people need to have someone in authority explaining to them the process and why they are there in a nonadversarial role. because i'm seeing these children get drug off to jail now, some of them and that should not have been an issue. >> and now they are going to say the cops hate me. no the police officers do not hate you. they are there to protect you but you're not helping the young people. >> but logic is prevailing here. bo how do you deal with that when people are so hot and in the middle of the moment and angry and they are not listening to reason and to these prayerful, thoughtful discussions? they are just angry. >> when we had the blackout of 77 here in new york people were looting all of the stores. the most important thing we did was respond immediately and break up the crowds. because all of a sudden once you break up the crowds you individualize them and then they are not so brave. then they are not going to be throwing the rocks. what hurt me was seeing the boulders going at those cops. i saw them getting hit in the knees and side of the head with the helmets on. i'm sure some of those cops have serious injuries and there's no reason in the world for the officers to be subjected to this. >> all officers are not bad, neil. >> no they are not. no they are not. as are not all protesters bad. >> sheriff are, three hours away before darkness. what do they have to do in the meantime? >> if i were the mayor of baltimore, i'd have the national guard not only on stand by but ready to deploy if for no other reason to put a perimeter in there and not let the protesters in. it's a balancing test that has to be met there. i have them out. right now you can't worry about the optics of the situation. you can't worry that it might not be palatable to some people. you have to restore order for the law-abiding people and the officer's safety in the city of baltimore. >> i want to thank everybody for the voice of reason and calm to maybe unite both sides and let cooler calmer heads prevail but it's still early and night is still ahead of us. the ongoing coverage of this continues after this. this is a fox news alert. protesters are hurling projectiles against the police that at times looks overmatched. shep smith has been monitoring the developments and joins us now with the very latest. shep watching these pictures you can't help but feel the city is on the verge of exploding into a blaze of violence. >> if they don't get it under control, that is our fear of our law enforcement analysts. i want to go straight to the wall because we're watching live pictures. we've been showing you these as they are looting at a cbs

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