Vulnerable we are. We needed masts, we know longer make masks here. We need specific medicines and we know longer need those either. Ct scans in an endless list of other critical devices, none of them are made here anymore. All of these things are now made in china, just like our phones and our routers and our Machine Tools in our airplane parts. China makes an awful lot of what we use and by the way, a lot of what a our military uses. China has grown rich from selling all of this to us and thats why when we need to raise money in a crisis, this crisis for example, we sell our debt to china. If america goes bankrupt after all this, bankruptcy and the way that our leaders are responding to the pandemic that could happen. It will likely be the chinese who bail us out, they are thehe only ones who can afford it. All of this is real and horrifying and most of us are just waking up to it now. So the question is, how did itan happen . How did the worlds richest democracy become dependent upon a hostile foreign dictatorship . There are a lot of reasons for that. There are always are, it is complicated, but there is one reason. Our Leadership Class allowed this to happen. Sometimes they did it in secret. And they got rich from doing it. Last night we talked told you about a Consulting Firm called mckinsey and company. Mckinsey is the recruiter ofon choice for many graduates. At our most selective colleges. Chelsea Pete Buttigieg did out of did out of stanford. Harvard. Mckinsey makes money selling advice and that advise saudi arabias crown prince for example how to silence all descent and his kingdom. In many people disappeared after that. In the 1980s, mckinsey urged banks to expand something called securitization, thats the practice of selling bundled loans. That practice led directly to the 2008 financial crisis. And most of all, for decades mckinsey promoted a concept called outsourcing. U. S. Companies they argued could increase shortterm profits by sending many of their jobs overseas. Mckinsey defended this practice by producing Inhouse Research which, in the end they thought would be, it didnt happen. Scenting jobs overseas would make america richer. That was their claim. And early on, mckenzie even offered its services to the communist party of china at azi discount. While charging clients in the u. S. Full freight. Ng at one point, the mckinsey the managing director served at the Advisory Board of the china developing bank which is the main driver behind of the most aggressive and brutal kind of h colonialism of the world has seen in more than 100 years. So china rose and american declined but mckenzie still found ways to make money here in the u. S. In 2013, the company advised Purdue Pharma on how they could supercharge sales of their addictive painkiller oxycontin. Mckinsey urged purdue to use mail orders to bypass pharmacists that were trying to keep addicts from getting narcotics. Mckinsey advised purdue on how to counter the emotional messages from others with teenagers who overdosed on opioids. Considering all the injuries this country has sustained over the past 40 years, the loss of manufacturing and unprecedented drug academic epidemic that has changed art demographics, leaders aligning with foreign dictatorships and a financial ice economy. Bankers and private equity barents mckinsey and company is with economic gain. Directly implicated in every one of these disasters. The companys ties to the Chinese Government are especially shocking. We introduce you to a longtime partner in mckinsey called peter walker. Management in mckinsey are eager to fawn over the government. Mckenzies senior partner peter walker came off like smitten teenager. All a flutter, what i discovered in china was, the people were happy. We were proud to come if they were energized. The government officials i met genuinely wanted to do the right thing for the people. Well, as it turned out this was just a taste of walkers effusive praise, for the chinee government. Heres more. I think the Chinese People have realized that anytime they are upset by what happens whether its an earthquake or sars or whats going on with the price of pork, i think that people speak out loud and clear and i think the government is largely responsive. A but to me thats just part of a system where they define democracy as a responsive to the people. And i think they tend to do that reasonably well. Tucker walker says hes visited china 80 times over the course of his long career. Hes also written a book and its called powerful, different, and equal. Chinese sub state propaganda authorities have plate praise walkers book is helpful to their cause. After we aired last nights segment, peter walker contacted our office here and ask for the chance to come onto the show and respond to what we said and we are glad he did. Peter walker joins us tonight. Mr. Walker, thank you so much for coming on. I want to start with the pandemic because thats what we were talking about in the first place. And im telling you im quoting you here. We were praising chinas response and i said, when people look back at whatot was done wih the magnitude of the quarantine in china, they are going to get high praise. Credible reports suggest that chinese authorities locked people in their apartments and left them to die. We know they snatched people off the street and threw them intoop police vans and thats where they went. Thats a quarantine that you think they deserve high praise for. Rewhy . I think tucker if you just look at the results, there will always be questions about what the numbers are but i think the harsh action that they took given the scale of china and a number of big cities was exactly what they needed to do to be able to prevent the outbreak from going any further. The reality is that outbreak hasnt gone much beyond wuhan. Now having said all that, and i happy about their lack of disclosure andcl lack of transparency, they should be faulted for that and accountable for that. Tucker okay. What would you say to the families of those who died, starve to death alone in their apartments are people wondering where their relatives went after they were bundled into Chinese Police vans. How would you square their grief with the praise that you just heaped on the quarantine . At the end of the day you just have to look at the total picture. Its like when cuomo gets on every night and trump gets on every night. Everyones heart goes out to every individual that died and thats part of the suffering that comes with the disease. Its heartbreaking, every single one of them is. But they had to do it otherwise, if you can imagine the scale of china, if that blew out in large numbers to other cities the numbers will be off the charts. B tucker wuhan where it began is roughly the size of the new york metro area. Weve lost more people in new york than the chinese publicly admit that they lost in wuhan. Given that you are praising their response, is there anything you are locking into new york . Into their apartments until they starve to death . I think we got a late start. When all was said and done. China got a late start, too. But the u. S. Got a late start and was also more unprepared when it comes to having the kind of people, the staff, the health workers, the equipment that was required to, the ppe and all of that. Tucker for sure, i think thats right. But if we had started earlier do you think it would be wise to lock people in apartments until they die . Look, there are a lot of things about it that i dont like and those specific actions were i think overly harsh, insensitive. Rl and china bears the brunt of that, they are accountable for that and i totally agree. Tucker okay. So you said you dont like some of the things china has done. Iu want to go to something you said to come this is from your website, that you do like. You are asked about the uighurs, im sure youve been asked many times. You are contrasting u. S. For example you mentioned the weakness, and dramatic improvements in the uighurs quality of life and that would include the last 50 years in terms of literacy, prosperity, including a sharp reduction in islamic terrorist incidents. Thats whatt china got out of putting in . It sounds like it was a fair concentration camps . Tradeoff. No i dont. I understand that for the governments point of view, clamping down on islamic terrorism was a high priority. They are fanatics about stability. Do i agree that locking down a Million People in an internment camp is a smart way to deal with islamic terrorism . Absolutely not. So tucker may i ask, why would you know that their literacy had increased . I guess the obvious question is who cares about the literacy if youre in a concentration camp . Thats an important point. One of the things and researching my book which became very clear to me, the Chinese People, i said you have a lot of things going, why are you doing the things the way you do . O . One of the things you discover about the chinese society, its a collective society is so very different from the individualistic society of the u. S. So in china, literally the way they would look at it is there were probably 8080 million peope where they live. A we locked up 1 million men so 79 Million People are materially better off in terms of the quality of life, standard of living and everything else. It was only aboutng 1. 5 that we locked up and thats how we think about it. Do i agree with that . No. I dont agree with it. It that difference between collectivism and common good is a huge disconnect with the u. S. We regard and always have been proud of every human life is sacred and therefore any unjustice or injustice is something we ought to be railing against and they are just not wired that way. Tucker sure. Do you think its a genetic question when you said they are not wired that way . It really goes back to confucian values. I know theres been a lot of negative press on confucian institutes but if you justlo go back to confucian values, one of the things you will learn his family first, society second. Individual way down the totem pole and the individuals role is self improvement through education to better serve family and society. So whenever you talk to the chinese about, how is the country doing, they always go back to the broad base of maximum number of people out of poverty and education. Tucker i bet they do. Thats a pretty handy way to excuse putting a Million People in a concentration camp. I wonder though, and i know this is hard, this is a problem in my life, its hard to a hear myself sometimes when i speak. But listening to you it sounds like a pure apology for fascist behavior. Well let me go back to what i said before. Do i agree with putting a Million People in an internment camps, absolutely not. The u. S. Went through this, too. Tucker will actually well let me ask you the obvious question because i dont think anyone would do this forbv free. How much money have you made over the course of your long career with mckenzie in china, just a rough estimate out there, it might be helpful to understand. Yeah, look. Im not i probably spent a quarter of my time in china ovee the course of roughly a dozen years, Something Like that. Tucker i guess the point im making, this country in part at the urging of mackenzie is now economically tied to china. You have to wonder if the values you describe which are repulsive, i think most individuals would agree with exterminating individuals for the sake of the group, i wonder if thats hurting our country. Why would we want to be aligned with the government that grotesque . Is that atrwoal fair question . Im a real pragmatist. So we as a country made a real mistake in not protecting our intellectual property. Now the cow is out of the barn and the reality is, the chinese momentum behind their economy is very strong. And containment is too little, too late. So as a pragmatist i basically say if china and the u. S. Got together on the next coronavirus or got together on the paris accord or whatever the issue is, the world would be a better place. Tucker perhaps you arebe right but to dismiss our present concerns as too far gone to fix is a little bit like setting a fire and then not calling the Fire Department because the building is a total loss. I mean mckenzie is one of the reasons that we dont make pharmaceuticals or masts or a lot of Machine Tools or a mamillion other things in this country, because you all advised American Companies to offshore production. So do you regret that advice that you gave to American Companies . Look. I think we are in a different world now in terms of being much clearer about what really essential goods are or not. T i think in the spirit of what mckinsey is advising, i think everybody was in favor of free trade in the sense of, let every country do what they do well. If you can take advantage of cheap, talented labor in china which is not so cheap anymore, it was kind of something that improved the Overall Economic wellbeing globally. And the economist say that. I think noww that we are realizing the dependency is, how Many Americans would have imagined that most of the ingredientsy for pharmaceuticals came from china and youre vulnerable. So i think this tucker did you think about it at the time because you had for sure, and thats why we are grateful you are on because a lot of us have been awakened to thats. But im wondering for someone who had a front row seat but were blissfully unaware. T you saw it happen. Did it ever occur to you that maybe we should make some antibiotics in the United States . Maybe it is unwise as an american to abet s the off shoring of pharmaceuticals . We can always look back and say, i know that at that point in time the economic model which was both democratic and republican was maximum economici good for everybody and i dont think people really paid attention to, what are theax risks, what are the secondorder consequences. And frankly one of the wakeup calls coming out of this virus are going to be, people are going to sit down and say what o are we willing to give up into terms of economic efficiency, in exchange for security . And that will be important decisions. Tucker i think thats actually true. So let me end on this. You spent 46 years at mckinsey, youve written about it and officially had a chance to think deeply about it. Do you regret participating in any of these trends, the ones that you say we should rethink . You know the vast majority of my workrelated to china was for chinese companies. And frankly, they were doing the same thing. My world was a world of insurance so i helped Chinese Insurance Companies just do the basic things. So it was get policies that provide better protection for consumers. Communicate more clearly so people understand what the products are. Be smart about how you price it. Cut your costs when you can. So i really wasnt involved in the u. S. China link directly. But if my mckinsey buddies were here today i think they would say, as i have, that free trade was so the dominant mantra of the time that anything that could be done to foster that and make anything anywhere was pretty much unquestioned. And like i said with this virus, we will revisit that. You know, i dont agree that there is going to be a huge increase of manufacturing jobs back here because whats going to happen is a lot of the supply chains will go to the philippines, thailand, vietnam. So the country is going to have to say, we are going to be willing to pay an extra percent for pharmaceuticals to have maximum safety and i think thats a very fair question and fair tradeoff. Tucker so no regrets. Peter walker, thanks for coming on tonight, i appreciate you doing now. Thank you tucker, ive enjoyed it. Tucker theres no information tonight about how many new yorkers have coronavirus antibodies and that could tell us a lot about how the disease spreads from person to person. Rs Trace Gallagher has been tracking this and he joins us now. Along with two california studies new york is now the third major antibodydy study conducted in the u. S. All three suggest a virus is a lot more widespread than we thought. In new york they tested 3,000 people from 19 counties. Pr these were people at Shopping Centers and bigbox chains. They found that 13. 9 of those tested had signs of the virus in their blood. If accurate that means 2. 7 Million People in new york have already had coronavirus and intern thate would significantly lower their fatality rate 2. 05 . Still about four times higher than seasonal flu but 30 times lower than numerous studies have suggested. Scientists still do not know if having antibodies means you are immune for a year, two years or life. Its notable that the number of new york deaths in the past four days is down 40 . Hospitalizations are down for ten days running, integrations are down 11 days running. Tucker . Tucker thanks so much for that. That news out of new york which you just heard raises more questions about the actual death rate. Look at the numbers. You will find that some places are being hit very, very hard and others are almost untouched. Why is that and what are the implications for us inre the locked down . We will investigate after the break. Tucker as of right now almost 49,000 people have died of the coronavirus in the United States so far, thats approaching the total of american servicemen killed during vietnam. But unlike vietnam the death toll from this pandemic has not spread evenly across the country. Coronavirus deaths are still clustered in a struggling small number of places. Look at the numbers. A pattern emerges. Only nine states out of 50 as right now i have recorded more than a thousand deaths from the virus. Close to half of all deaths nationwide have occurred in just two states, new york, new york, and new jersey. New york has recorded 15,200 deaths in new jersey about a third of that. Of 5,063. After new york and new jersey the death total declined dramatically. You wouldnt necessarily expect edthat to happen. New york and new jersey have dense urban areas but are not the biggest states. In the country by population. In fact, new york is fourth and new jersey 11th. Our three biggest states have b