information . >> martha: so palmer and hartman voted no based on that. then the public was invited to weigh in and all hell broke loose. they were berated. they were called racist because detroit, which is in wayne county, is about 80% black. black voters. listen to this. >> when both of you go home tonight and read up on systemic racism. >> shame on you. shame on you for leaning to this level of corruption. >> it's as though the 15th amendment was never passed. this country has been brought to its knees by republican i fanatics. >> your cult followers doing whatever your cult leader tells to you do. why don't you have any shame? because you are not smart enough to realize you are in a cult. >> the racism that you hartman and monica palmer have covered yourself in going to follow you throughout history. monica palmer and william hartman will forever be known in southeastern michigan as two racists and more nos when you go to meet your maker, your soul is going to be very, very warm a short time later they changed their vote to certify. here now ronna mcdaniel long time michigan resident joins me now. thank you for being here tonight. i think all of us can understand when this kind of committee gets into an argument about whether or not to certify but the reaction of these individuals is shocking when you watch that. >> it's horrific. it's bullying. it's frightening. and you know, if you look at what monica and bill were saying and this is an issue in wayne county in 2017. the lieutenant governor who is a democrat said it was a catastrophe what was happening there because 80% of the precincts did not match. this past summer 72%, this one 71. what does that mean? it means a precinct has to say these are how many absentee ballots we sent out to voters who requested them. say we sent out 100 and then they get 200 back. how does that happen? you have to align the poll books with saying how many ballots wept out with how many come in. and that's the problem. so when 71% in this election don't match, it means that only 29% worked. that's a failing grade. they are doing absolutely the right thing to not certify that and to see them be harassed and bullied and attacked, it's mob rules. >> martha: john james who ran for senate in michigan said this about it. he said i applaud the wayne county board of canvassers for their bravery in the face of unbelievable pressure to ignore inconvenient truths that threaten our democracy and you are saying that in previous elections democrats have been upset with the same sort of numbers that were happening. but i was watching the secretary of state jocelyn benson today, and she went after you. she said that you're part of a plan to steal the election in michigan. she said there were no irregularities in the vote. she said there are just clerical errors. the mayor of detroit said that just 357 votes out of 250,000 cast had discrepancies. so, how do you respond to that? they are saying it's an effort to steal the votes of african-americans in michigan. >> well, that's just outrageous. and i love my state and i love detroit. and this has nothing to do with race. and so democrats don't go there. it's disgusting. this is about 72% of the precincts not matching up. i would say this if it were a republican county or a democrat county if you can't run an election. >> martha: in livonia there were larger discrepancies and these two individuals voted yes on that district. what do you say to that? >> it's wayne county. they didn't vote yes. it was the whole certification that they voted against. it's the whole county. so they said no. they said there are too many discrepancies. we want to look into this and this is what happened last night. the democrats on the committee said you know what? we will do an audit. we promise you. if you certify it. and within seconds jocelyn benson got on tv and said that's not binding. we are not going to do an audit. we are not going to look into it. listen, martha, if you have nothing to hide, what's the harm in doing an. we just found 6,000 votes that were not counted in georgia. they were not counted. they were missed because 6 an audit. with this type of discrepancy in wayne county, it's very reasonable to say we should look into this. especially when it's happened in three or four subsequent elections and the secretary of state refuses to deal with this issue. and it's hurting the whole state of michigan because people are losing faith in our election process. so fix it. don't call republicans racist. don't go there. these are nice people. these are hard-working people. they have families. they were derided and bullied and attacked last night. that's what's happening to any republican right now who is speaking up. mccarthyism at its best. let's not hire people from the trump administration. let's sensor them and attack them and silence their voices. it's a frightening time in our country and it's not right what's happening. >> martha: jennifer rubin wrote this in a "the washington post" op-ed titled time to call out the g.o.p.'s new jim crow's tactics. we very not seen a coordinated will effort in this magnitude to disenfranchise african-american voters since the jim crow era. this should remove any doubt that the trumpist republican party, is unlike many right-wing populist parties in europe, is at its core a racist enterprise. how d discuss that. >> a president who has funded hvcus at higher level and created opportunity swons. and republican party that had offices in urban areas in black community to turn out the black vote to compete for the black vote this election. that's why you see 73 million people vote for president trump, the highest of any president in history because of our outreach. and we are making inroads with hispanics and african-americans and asian americans because of the economic opportunity and the things that this party stands for. so, i'm sick and tired of people calling republicans racist and dividing our country. you are making our country more divided. we are reaching tout every american and president trump's policies showed that it lifted the boats for every single american with record low unemployment now you are seeing, you know, historic games and jobs coming back in the stock market. this is a president who put good policies in place for everyone. >> martha: just going back to the livonia example, right? you know, wherever there is a discrepancy, it seems to me that what we need so give people confidence in voting again is for both sides, whether you win or lose, to press for these things to be re protect find re. i wonder if president trump won in michigan would you be so concerned about the certification there or would you be saying look let's go back and make sure that we get this right? i mean, i think everybody knows the answer to that. but that's what it is going to take to actually fix some of these problems. >> well, you know, martha. i sat at a recount table in detroit in 2016 for a candidate who got less than 1% of the vote here and got a statewide recount hand count and i sat and watched as poll books did not match the ballot box which makes it ineligible for the recount. these are things that need to be changed. we cannot have these discrepancies and we need to have faith in our election process. i would tell you right now if it were republican county that didn't let people poll watch that didn't let people observe is unlike we had in wayne county and then had 72% of the precincts not match up i would be is unlike all for it. we should look into that. why aren't democrats saying the same thing? this is a problem and everyone deserves to have faith in it. >> martha: thank you very much ronna mcdaniel head of the republican national committee. good to have you here tonight, thanks, ronna. >> thanks for having me. >> martha: new york governor cuomo says don't trust the vaccine process because it's all about money and ego. >> on the way out the door he wants to be able to say i solved covid because i discovered a vaccine. no, it's. he didn't do anything. nobody is going to trust him saying it's a safe vaccine. >> martha: republican senator rob portman who says skepticism drove him to become part of the vaccine trial. he's up next. ♪ we made usaa insurance for members like martin. an air force veteran made of doing what's right, not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. because doing right by our members, that's what's right. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. ♪ usaa we're made for. tturning downhe temperature, dad. ow. thunk, lock the doors. locking doors. thunk, dim the lights. dimming lights. 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[ laughs ] that's my leg. aw! pft, pft. evolve your home security. get the peace of mind, safety and convenience of xfinity home. and don't forget to catch the croods, a new age in theaters thanksgiving. rated pg. >> the average time it's taken in the past to develop a vaccine has been about eight years. this has been done in ten months. all this supported by operation warp speed making it possible to do things carefully, safely, but really quickly in a way that's not been attempted before. >> martha: so as government health officials tout the speed and safety of the covid-19 vaccines developed under operation warp speed new york governor andrew cuomo says not so fast. >> why is it moving so fast? two reasons, money and ego. the first company that has the vaccine that is big money. you didn't need trump to tell the vaccine companies you should develop a vaccine. he had nothing to do with it. the president is ego. on the way out the door he wants to be able to say i solved covid because i discovered a vaccine. no. it's all b.s. he didn't do anything. it's the drug companies and nobody is going to trust him saying it's a safe vaccine. >> martha: joining me now ohio senator rob portman, a volunteer in a late stage trial in the johnson and johnson vaccine. senator, great to have you here tonight. thanks for being here. >> thanks, martha. >> martha: you heard the governor of new york. he said it's just money. of course all these pharma companies were rushing to create a vaccine and the president's ego and he did nothing to move this whole process forward. what do you say to him? >> well, it's not about money and ego. it's in fact about science and data and safety and saving lives. and let's face it operation warp speed has worked miraculously. it's a private-public partnership that allows us to do two things yes to encourage the development of these new vaccines as quickly as possible and congress provided $27 billion in the cares act to do it. second, what was brilliant, i think, by the trump administration was to say there will be a dual track. at the same time we will be manufacturing this vaccine which, as you heard normally normally takes years. you had the development of the vaccine and the manufacturing going on on two tracks at the same time if the fda approval doesn't come, you throw away those vials. but, if it does come, which we hope it will for no concern that and pfizer which are out front it appears with 90% and 95% efficiency. unbelievable effective rates of 95%. it's just extraordinary. then those vaccines are ready to go and can you get them on the market right away. i think it was really smart the way they did it. i think it's a great example of where the public sector and private sector can come together for success irresponsible and reckless to say that this is not safe. that is just -- playing politics with people's lives. it's playing politics with the healthcare in our communities and it's just wrong. >> martha: it has an impact, too. we should point out we reached a grim milestone today 250,000 deaths, quarter of a million deaths from covid in this country. so while you have got it second wave surge going on which is obviously a very difficult situation for a lot of people. on the other side of the equation, you have this really impressive process so far and we all hope that it passes the safety bars that it has to pass. and there has been a lot of reluctance on the part of people in polling, at least, whether or not they are going to take it. whether or not they feel safe taking it. and you did something to do your part to try to perpetuate confidence in this. you took the vaccine in a trial. you don't know whether you got a placebo or not, i assume. how did it all go? tell everybody. >> it went great. i would encourage people to sign up. i will signed up for the study because we have in our state of ohio a company that does these studies all over the country and i had gone for a briefing and they told me it's difficult sometimes to get people to interior into the trials. i said what if i did it? would that be helpful? they sure if you are willing to go public to say did you it and it was a good experience and so on. did i it. you have to go through a questionnaire and answer a lot of questions about your healthcare. you have gout to be, you know, sure that you are the right person for the trial. and when you get into the trial, every to keep a daily diary for a week and now i do it every monday and thursday. but i think it's a tremendous way for people to step forward and help. >> martha: did you feel sick afterwards? >> no, i didn't. i have been feeling great. and i feel today maybe i got the placebo and it was caffeine because i was feeling pumped up, you know. maybe i got the vaccine, i don't know. i will never know. you know, half the people get the placebo. half the people get the vaccine and these studies that are coming out are just phenomenal. this has all happened since i entered into the trial. but, again, 94.5% and 95% effectiveness for these vaccine. with the flu vaccine i'm told it's about 30% effective. >> martha: eventually you will have to get an antibody test to see if you need to take the vaccine again. i want to play a clip from joe biden. there is concern out there that there is not enough coordination between the biden team and the trump team at this really crucial time in this process. this is what he said. >> when these vaccines comes out how they will be districted who will be first in line what the plan is. there is a whole lot of things that we just don't have available to us. unless it's made available soon we will be behind by weeks and months. >> martha: what would you advise the white house to do about that. >> well, two things, one. a lot of the people who are involved in this as you know are not political people. in other words, they aren't going to leave the administration. dr. fauci is a great example of that i think he served under something is unlike seven presidents. >> martha: right. >> he's going to have the expertise regardless of what happens in these final weeks here. second, i do think the information ought to be provided. i think that that is not harmful. and i think it's important. people understand. both by the way in the congress and you know others to be sure that there isn't any gap in knowledge. i think it's pretty clear what's happening. which is that we hope by the end of this year there will be tens of millions of these does does available and go first to people in healthcare. that's good. front line workers particularly nursing homes where nursing home infection people tend to be going in and out of the nursing home. people who are patients and first responders. i think that's appropriate. and then it will go to the most vulnerable and i think that's appropriate. no, look, everybody needs to know what the plan is. but i think it's a solid plan. and i think it's good that the military is involved in the logistics of it because it is an enormous undertaking. >> martha: as you said it's important for everybody to be on the same page and have a lot of communication going on. >> i think that's good. >> martha: thank you very much. >> thank you, martha. >> martha: good to speak with you tonight. >> with you too as always. >> martha: there is a reason why these vaccines developed so quickly. they piggy backed off of the research with something called messenger rna and may be able to teach your cells to actually fight off each more than covid. perhaps it could be used to fight off cancers as well. it's fascinating. we're going to talk to a doctor about that in a moment. and china wants to be the world dominant super power. so how would susan rice, if she becomes secretary of state take that on? 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>> yeah, this is -- it's really fascinating, martha. it's a new technology for making vaccines. and as you said it's gene-based. so, the normal way of making a vaccine is you find a way to present to your immune system a protein, something that's on the outside of a virus or a bacteria so your immune system can react to that and so when you see the actual virus or bacteria you're protected. have you created antibodies and other protection. this works differently. it injects knew a good evening based material that causes your own cells to make a protein that's normally found on the outside of the coronavirus. it's called a spike protein. and so this gene based material goes into your own cells make this spike protein and then your immune system responds to that spike protein. it's different from other approaches that development of these type of vaccines can occur much, much faster and the results that we're seeing so far are really highly encouraging. the big concern and question is given that it's new there will only be about two months of safety data on this before it's likely they are going to be available to people. >> martha: does that concern you and what should we all be aware of in terms of that timeline. >> i think it's always concerning. you know, the fact that 250,000 people have died is concerning you have to weigh those two things. very important that people vaccine trials been seen months and years to see how long this protection lasts and are think there any side effects that appear later on? so, you know, it's those two things to balance. there are likely going to be other types of vaccines coming along that are made with more pra additional doctors are going to have to inform their patients which way they should go. there truly is hope that we could see an end to this in 2021. >> martha: messenger rna before i let did you go what is the potential of this for curing other things as i mentioned from the "wall street journal" piece? >> yeah. there is all kinds of exciting science. so if you can get yourself to make a protein for a virus, maybe you can get yourselves to make a protein that's abnormal in particular cancers and your immune system can go after those cancer cells instead of going after a virus or another infectious agent. it opens a lot of doors to new new approaches and it's important that as these approaches come they are available to everybody. >> martha: yeah, fascinating. it's been a tough year but it's exciting to hear about some of these new developments that could have better ramifications as well doctor besser, thank you. good to see you tonight. >> you are welcome, martha. >> martha: coming up next i will speak with senator tom cotton about how joe biden as a president would tackle the thorny issue of china. >> china is going to eat our lunch? 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come on, man. i mean, you know, they are not bad folks, folks. but guess what they are not that competition for us. >> that was last may. joining me now senator tom cotton a member of the armed forces and intelligence. good to have you here. there wasn't a lot of foreign policy discussion over the course of the campaign but there was a bit. and here is something that joe biden said about how he looks at china and russia. watch this. let me read it to you in the near time russia which seeks to undermine our democracy and our partners in europe -- sorry, including the members of the nato alliance, in the medium-term a rising china poses the greatest strategic challenge to the united states and our allies in asia and in europe ultimately over the long term the greatest geopolitical threat, he said an existential threat to all countries is climate crisis. so what do you make of where he appears to stand there? >> martha, thanks for having me on first i want to commend the state department birk wits policy planning the internal think tank for producing an outtgand properties about the chinese communist parties to replace the united states as the world wanted dominant super power. reminisce cyst sent in what john kin then wrote long telegram at the beginning of the cold war. something joe biden needs to read. bob gates who served in the obama-biden administration has been wrong about nearly every major foreign policy and national security decision over the last 48 years. should he become president i wish he would change that record but it doesn't sound is unlike is he going to. i remember when barack obama made fun of mitt romney for saying that russia was our chief threat. and i'm worried that joe biden is willing to give away the store to beijing for some alewisry fantastic climate change agreement when china the world's largest polluter doesn't change their ways while the united states has had declines emissions does agree. have our jobs outsourced or religious minorities and democratic activists in china and hong kong and tijuana who don't want to be under the thumb of communist oppression or is unlike a kowtow to beijing and international organizations to get more so-called prestige or credibility when in reality it just is naive and gullibility. >> martha: you make many good points one of which we have been better at cutting our emissions than we had even been scheduled to be than if we had stayed in the paris climate accord. we have exceeded those expectations even outside of that deal. i want to ask you about this afghanistan-iraq this drawdown to 2500 troops by january as we heard from the new defense secretary yesterday. and here is what senator mcconnell had to say about that yesterday. let's watch. >> i think it's extremely important here in the next couple of months not to have any earth shaking changes with regard to defense and foreign policy. i think a precipitous drawdown in either afghanistan or iraq would be a mistake. >> martha: do you agree and do you think that is the beginning of the separation of the senate viewpoints and the white house? >> well, martha, i agree with senator mcconnell's point that we don't want to leave afghanistan or iraq if the terrorists are going to be able to take over and use as it a safe haven again. that's exactly what happened in iraq and syria in 2011 and 2014. president obama pulled down our troops to zero and the slack state rose to power and we had to return to those countries to protect our citizens. at the same time, the president has said all along that he wants to continue this steady and gradual removal of our troops from afghanistan and iraq and other countries in the middle east in no small part so we are better pot temperatured aroun pt can which is a rising a communist china. senator mcconnell made those remarks before the announcement yesterday. he was speaking, i believe about an exit entirely. the announcement that acting secretary of defense chris miller said is that we are going to move a couple thousand troops home. again, if that's what the commanders on the ground say that they need to maintain the support for the fragile peace agreement in afghanistan and to prevent it from beginning a terrorist safe haven then i would give a lot of credit to their judgment. >> martha: sounds is unlike there is lining up between the biden team and the trump presidency on that particular point. with regard to the future secretary of state, we don't know who it is going to be yet. obviously there is speculation out there. and there are -- there is some reporting that president obama is encouraging president-elect biden to choose susan rice. here is what she said when she was asked about the potential for a cabinet spot. >> i'm very glad that we have joe biden and kamala harris coming to the white house. they are going to bring compassionate, responsible, effective leadership. and if they think i can be helpful to them in any particular capacity, i'm very open to serving. >> martha: tell me what you think about the potential for her being confirmed in the senate if she is chosen, senator? >> susan rice was the typhoid mary of the obama administration foreign policy. she was at the middle of every terrible, flawed discrimination take libya, for example. many people remember benghazi but the very fact that we launched that war to begin with without any plan for stability afterwards to turn that country into an open civil war zone where they are still engaged in the slave trade, which allowed millions of migrants to cross the mediterranean sea if they survived the crossing and flood into europe. that's the example of the tingsd of terrible judgment she displayed in the obama administration. that's why democrats couldn't confirm her in 2012 when barack obama wanted to make her a secretary of state. if the democratic senate couldn't confirm her i doubt that a republican senate is going to confirm susan rice. >> martha: at the time she was made the national security adviser not necessary to be confirmed spot smt white house. senator tom cotton, thank you. good to have you here tonight. >> thank you, martha. >> martha: so as new york city puts its schools back into full lockdown many parents might is unlike to have some school choice right now something that betsy devos long advocated for. so if randy wine garten the head of the teacher's union takes her place which has been suggested by some. what would look different at the department of education? bill bennett weighs in next. thunk, turn the temperature down. turning down temperature, dad. ow. thunk, lock the doors. locking doors. thunk, dim the lights. dimming lights. 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[ laughs ] that's my leg. aw! pft, pft. evolve your home security. get the peace of mind, safety and convenience of xfinity home. and don't forget to catch the croods, a new age in theaters thanksgiving. rated pg. >> martha: new york public schools will shut down tomorrow after less than 8 weeks of in person learning. the teacher's union had long advocated for a delay in the return to the classroom back in september and could soon find new found influence under a biden administration. the president-elect is reportedly eyeing labor leaders randy weingarten and lily garcia as potential heads of the department of education. and changes could come quickly. the "new york times" reports that the plans might look is unlike this quote to restore obama era civil rights guidance rescinded by ms. devos that allowed transgender students choose their school bathrooms address the disproportionate disciplining of black students and press for diversity in colleges and k-12 classrooms. the restoration can be done immediately because they were not put through the regulatory process or enacted into law, they write. so joining me now on some of this tonight bill bennett former education secretary and fox news contributor. bill, great to have you with us. let's jump right in here. this announcement today that the country's largest school system is going back into lockdown. your reaction? >> what a travesty. ridiculous and cruel. cruel to the students and cruel to their parents. cruel to the citizenry. the students are virtually immune from covid. there have been very few cases, a study that will be coming out of johns hopkins shows that of all the children though ho have died from covid across the country small number double digits all of them had serious co-morbidities. school is a safe place for kids and they will now be denied it. think of the parents having to scramble tomorrow. here we are prethanksgiving. what are they going to do? go to work? find somebody to cover for their kids? and, again, there is no good reason. follow the science and they're not following the science here. >> martha: tremendous loss of learning too. >> absolutely. and the citizenry will lose. because these kids will have lost close to a year now. the math goes in four months and, you know, not just the learning but the social learning, missing their friends, their health issues. the fact that their loneliness, psychological problems for older kids drug issues. child abuse is going on that's not being investigated. there is no good reason for this to take kids out of school and yet it's being done and it's a shame. parents should raise holly hell abouhole holyhell about this. >> martha: they will. the teacher's unions had been very much against starting in september. they wanted to delay that. now it looks is unlike a couple of the possibilities for the department of education to run that department randy weingarten and lily garcia of the teacher's unions what do you think the impact of that would be? how would that change education in america? >> well, frankly, whether it's lily or randi it will be the teacher's union running the department anyway if either of those are named. that's the most powerful education group in the country particularly the democratic party. the largest organization that the democrat could mention was the teacher's unions. they hold enormous sway. and they will have it their way. telephone don't want to go back to school. they want to get paid but they don't want to go back to classrooms. >> that's a shame but they have revealed themselves to the personal people and that's why the personal people are more interested than ever in school choice and home schooling and other options. they are very disappointed with the behavior of these unions. you will see their reversals, too, on a number of the issues that you talked about plus, of course,we may see this farce on the student loan forgiveness issue. >> martha: in a minute that we have left and i'm going to encourage everyone to listen to the podcast that you and i did together as well because we got a lot deeper into a number of these issues including your thoughts on student loan forgiveness. but, you know, talk about the social impact of the limit of families not seeing each other. thanksgiving is probably my favorite holiday. and it's such a special time. and this year it just sounds is unlike it's going to be skipped. >> yeah. what do you do? draw jaw straws? grandma yes, grandpa no? six people only? no singing unless it's in a speaking voice. it's ridiculous. let's just take tip of the iceberg here the end of the line oregon. so in oregon, you cannot gather more than six people together to share turkey but now because of their decriminalization you can gather four people together. all they want and they have can have all the heroin and cocaine without any fear of the police. political science may come for you and your turkey but not for the people using the heroin and the cocaine. what in god's name have we come to? what kind of idiocy is ruling in these places? >> martha: unbelievable that those drugs are legal, legal use. it's unbelievable. bill, thank you. >> unbelievable. >> martha: thank you very much and i hope everyone listens to your podcast because you have a lot of very wise things to say and i want them to hear those as well. good to see you tonight. >> thank you. happy thanksgiving. >> martha: happy thanksgiving. pretty clear there is an effort underway to cancel trump supporters to keep them from getting jobs or speaking opportunities. now a petition is reportedly circulating at harvard university to prevent any related trump officials have being on their campus in any capacity. the details next. >> people is unlike kirstjen nielsen. people is unlike steven miller. people is unlike kellyanne conway, people is unlike vice president pence who was woefully inadequate at his role of being the head of the coronavirus task force and people is unlike ben carson and betsy devos. i don't think that those people should be able to profit from their experience within the trump administration and i don't think that they should be forgotten and i don't think that we should look the other way. and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein... -with 20 grams of protein for muscle health- -versus only 16 grams in ensure® high protein. and now enjoy boost® high protein in café mocha flavor. joint pain, swelling, temy psoriasis. cosentyx works on all of this. cosentyx can help you look and feel better by treating the multiple symptoms of psoriatic arthritis. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms, if your inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen, or if you've had a vaccine, or plan to. serious allergic reactions may occur. watch me! get real relief with cosentyx. (children laughing) ♪ (music swells) (dog barking) ♪ (music fades) (exhales) experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list sales event. sign and drive off in a new lincoln with zero down, zero due at signing, and a complimentary first month's payment. ♪ >> martha: so harvard students reportedly taken preventative measures to ban any trump officials from attending or teaching or speaking at the university writing in a petition, "we worry that in following tradition and inviting numbers of the trump administration to harvard the school would be legitimizing this subversion of democratic principles that up to now had been universally accepted by both political parties. part of ensuring the survival of our democracy means calling to account those who seek to harm it." during me now, john hartley, a masters student at the harvard kennedy school. thanks for being here tonight, good to have you. >> thanks for having me. >> martha: how much attention as this getting on-campus? is it widely signed and what did you think about it? >> i think it's really interesting sort of development. i think it's certainly raising a lot of eyebrows from many parts of campus. i think, you know, in my own opinion, i think it's unfortunate. in the sense that it's not just unfair to trump alumni, who by the way may not share the same views as the president, but i think it's especially unfair to students, this proposal we particularly unfair to students who disagree with many of the policies of the trump administration. as a more republican leaning student on campus, i think i learned a lot from democratic students, democratic-leaning professors as well and it's no secret that harvard is a more democratically-leaning school, but i think really it's -- it marks kind of a disconnect between some of the more progressive students, the most progressive students, i would say, and in the administration at harvard who think actually you could say very much trying to promote more intellectual diversity, bringing on more republican students and on top of that, they've actually already hired in the past and present, they've hired a number of trump -- former trump administrative personnel like jerry cohen and powell as well. i think halting that i think is very shocking and also in terms of upholding the sort of ideals of democracy, punishing political opponents in my opinion doesn't quite seem to be consistent with that. i think it will be interesting to show with the school says, the path that they have affirmed a commitment to promoting viewpoint diversity -- >> martha: that's all point. >> a school at the university of chicago is adopting this but suppose. >> martha: the whole point of an education is to test your beliefs number two tester studies, to test and, you know, listen to other people's viewpoints so that you can really -- i think it would be a great opportunity for some of those who wrote that statement to get a chance to be a foil, you know, to discuss those issues with his people, otherwise we're just going to be talking -- preaching to the choir. here's kayleigh mcenany, the press secretary i should say, at the white house, and she went to harvard law school. here's what she said this morning. >> i hope the administration stands firm against this sort of call from censorship among the students because when i was there, stuart, there was this uprising of leftists on campus that tried to silence the speech of people from the right. i hope the administration, the same way they did when i was there, rebukes this movement because censorship should not be tolerated, our academic communities should be bastions of free speech. >> martha: would got to leave it there, we are out of time but i want to thank you very much for coming on tonight. masters student, we reached out to harvard, no comment on the petition at this point. but i think you for being with us tonight. so that is to be 20 of wednesday november 18th, 2020 but as always, the story continues, so we will see you back here tomorrow night at 7:00. tucker carlson will be joining us next, so stick around for that, have a great night, everybody. ♪ ♪ >> tucker: good evening and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight." sometimes a single picture so perfectly crystallizes a moment that you want to hang it in a museum as a testament to history. dorothea lange a posthumous photographs of migrant farmworkers in the 1930s were like that. they captured the suffering of the great depression great depression more powerfully than any government report ever could. the image of the second flag raising over iwo jima was so powerful that we cast it in bronze. the memory of the grit and courage of our marines in the second world war. those images summed up entire periods of american life. so what sums up hours?