jill and jessa will speak in moments but we begin with what has proven to be an intense few days for the entire duggar family. an explosive interview. >> we went through one of the most darkest times our family has ever gone through. our son josh came to us on his own and he was crying and he had just turned 14 and he said he had actually improperly touched some of our daughters. >> we were shocked. we were devastated. >> jim bob and michelle duggar sitting down with "the kelly file." their oldest son josh inappropriately touched five girls when he was a young teen-ager, four of whom are the duggars' daughters. how did they find out? what did they do? and why would they launch a reality show knowing of their family's history? >> how did you first learn there was a problem with josh? >> he was the one that came and shared on his own. i think as parents we thought we're failures. here we tried to raise our kids to do what's right, to know what's right. >> some people have said why did they wait? why didn't they go to the authorities or go for the counseling at the very first time he came to you? >> you know i talked to somebody that worked at one of those juvenile youth sex offender facilities. the success rate is not very good. it's a situation where we felt like our son's heart had gone astray. >> what would make you launch a reality tv about your family given this past? >> we had nothing to hide. we had taken care of all that years before. >> the media reaction to our exchange was swift and strong. >> a lot of times people do an interview in a situation like this to lay the issue to rest. i think in this case the interview may have even raised more questions. >> the father of three little girls, this was a brutal hour of television to watch. >> don't bring up god. you can't do that and talk about god forgiving people when you don't have forgiveness in your own heart. >> but there is another part of this story, the story you haven't heard until tonight. after we interviewed jim bob and michelle two of their daughters sat down with us to reveal that they were among josh's victims. this revelation coming at a time that had been the happiest of their lives. jill duggar dillard, a new mom, who just gave birth to her first born. her wedding to derek was publicized in a wildly popular episode of the tv series. and then there's jessa, their televised wedding was also a huge ratings success, two girls who were the subjects of unwanted touching. tonight they break their silence about their secret and their heartache. >> thanks for being here. you're 22 jessa. how old are you jill? >> 24. >> so this happened a long time ago. how old were you -- let me skart with you, jill. how old were you when josh inappropriately touched you? >> i was 12. >> and hugh aboutow about you? >> i guess i was 9 or 10. >> and you are going on the record as being two of josh's victims. >> mmm-hmm. >> is it strange to use that word? >> we didn't choose to come out. but now that the story has been brought about, we feel like as we've been seeing these headlines, as we've been seeing things that people are saying about our family we feel like as victims we have to come out and speak. this is something like we chose to do. nobody asked us to do this. jessa and i were talking and we were like oh my goodness most of the stuff out there is lies it's not true. for truth sake we want to come out and set the record straight. >> sit hearing today, when i said "victims," you furrowed your brow a little bit. do you feel like the victim of a molestation? >> well, i think in the case of what josh did, it was very wrong. i'm not going to justify anything that he did or say it was okay. it not permissible. but i do want to speak up in his defense against people who are calling hmm a child molester or a pedophile or a rapist some people are saying. that is so overboard and a lie really. i mean people get mad at me for saying that but i'm like i can say this. i was one of the victims, so i can speak out and i can say this and set the record straight here. like in josh's case he was a boy, young boy in puberty and a little too curious about girls and that got him into some trouble. and he made some bad choices but really the extent of it was mild inappropriate touching on fully clothed victims. most of it while girls were sleeping. >> we didn't even know about it until he went and confessed it with my parents. >> none of the victims were until joshua confessed. >> it wasn't like we were keeping secret afraid or something. it was we didn't know until josh explained to my parents what his thought process was, what everything was. >> how did you learn about it? did your parents sit you down -- >> my parents took us aside individually and they said here's what's happened. at that point of course you're shocked. >> your parents were the ones to tell you you were molested or -- >> yeah. >> and you, too? >> yeah. >> at the same time? >> no individually. >> what was your reaction to that? >> well, i was like shocked and kind of like okay this is strange. >> you had no memory of it? >> i didn't know. i didn't understand okay this is what's happened until my parents told me. and so i think at that point it was just kind of like -- it's >> you never think will would happen to me. in our case it's something that's very mild compared to what some people -- even when my parents came and told me i'm sad, i'm shocked. like jessa said i'm shocked. and i'm sad because this is my older brother who i love a lot. and so it's like they're conflicting there. >> did you feel angry? >> i did. you know i was angry at first. i was like how could this happen? and then my parents explained to us what happened and then josh came and asked each of us individually i know but he asked me to forgive him. and i had to make that choice to forgive him, you know. it wasn't something that somebody forced. it was like you have to make that decision for yourself. >> so let's go back in time. we're ahead of ourselves little bit. you're 12 you're 10 around there and your parents sit you down individually and tell you that this happened. do you remember whether that was 2002 or 2003? >> [ inaudible ]. >> you had the family meeting. did josh go away right after that? >> he did pretty soon. at the time i was young so it kind of seems like everything was a whirlwind or whatever. >> was there time that you were in house with josh knowing this prior to him going away? >> it wasn't very long that after josh went away that i knew. >> do you remember the dynamic of being in the house? >> we were sad. >> here's my brother, i know this information now, what am i suppose to do with this? >> we were sad when he was sent away because he's your brother, you know because you're all still kids. at the same time it was burned in our memory josh made some very bad decisions and he's going to suffer the consequences of those decisions. >> did you get the chance to -- maybe you weren't feeling -- you said you were feeling angry but do you get the chance to express that anger to him? did you fight? >> no. i think for us our situation is so different than most girls in that he was -- he's very subtle anyway. he knew in his mind my actions are wrong and i have bad intentions but he was very sly like the girls didn't catch on you know. it was like okay if you catch the girl sleeping a quick feel or whatever. or if you're just not really aware, in the situation that happened when the girls were awake, it's like they weren't aware what was happening. it was very subtle. and so i this i thatnk for us we realize this is serious but at the same time it wasn't like a horror story or this terrible thing where we were like, oh my goodness. >> that's one of the headline covers "house of horrors." >> ridiculous. >> that is not how you view it? >> no. >> and my parents, looking back as an adult, they set up safety guards in our house. they sent josh away. he got help. when he came back he was a totally different person. >> how did that manifest that? how could you tell? >> you could tell. he was repentant. he made some life changes here and he's never going to go down that path. >> did you feel scared at all that he might resume? >> you know, when this happened when my dad and mom sat down with us and shared what happened and josh asked us to forgive him, we had to make that choice that i think everyone has to make and my dad explained to us he said you know there's a difference between forgiveness and trust. that's not the same thing. you forgive someone and then you have boundaries. forgiveness with boundaries and so trust comes later. you know josh destroyed that trust at the beginning, and so he had to rebuild that. and so i think when he came back that was his -- that was his point of, okay -- well actually, when he asked us to forgive him, that was the point of rebuilding. >> what were the safeguards that were put into place just to make sure? >> well, like not -- >> i was going to say not being alone. my parents said okay we're not going to do this hide and seek thing where two people go off and hide together and not baby-sitting the girls. >> at night in your room? >> locks on the doors, you know everybody's in bed, girls in the girls room boys in the boys room. so yeah. and as a mother now, i look back and say my parents did such an amazing job. even when we went through the dhs investigation, they complimented my parents on what an amazing job they did through that process. i think not only taking the legal actions that they did and then going the extra mile and i see as a mom i hope that i can set the same safeguards in my family that they did and reaching the heart of their children. and not only trying to take care of josh but us girls. >> for the record did you ever have any trouble with any other family members? >> no. >> this is just about josh. and just about the period prior to counseling. >> my parents did talk with us when all this came up. they sat down with all of us kids every age, sat down and said if anyone ever touches you inappropriately, come and tell mom and dad, you know. you have a voice -- >> did you start to think of yourself after they told you as a victim -- is there a moment where the light goes off that wow, i am the victim of molestation? >> i don't believe so. >> i think in our situation, like i said we weren't aware that that was going on. >> when you talk to child molestation victims, they often talk about feeling shame, things like that. did you go through any of that given the circumstances here? >> i think definitely like when we were doing the dhs investigation and they're asking you to tell your story -- i mean it's one thing to talk to mom and dad and say, wow, okay, this happened but it's another thing when a complete stranger is saying tell me your story here. >> we all went down there, they took us down there and we're going to share what happened here. our parents told us be completely open and honest -- >> they're here to help you. >> and you met with investigators and told them your story. >> we did. we were honest here's what happened we told them the complete story. my parents said this is not something people are going to blab around this is something you can tell them can you trust them. just like you talk to mom and dad, it's a safe place to talk. >> and yet -- >> unfortunately not. >> up next jill and jessa discuss what happened when they were questioned by the authorities. plus the moment that brought jill to tears. >> we were pretty serious. we were not happy. >> i was in tears. i couldn't believe what was going on. i heard i could call angie's list if i needed work done around my house at a fair price. sure can. so i could get a faulty light switch fixed? 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>> no. i think whenever we started the tv show the reality show was five years or something after all of this. we had dealt with it. as a family we had moved on. >> you weren't laboring under a fear that we're targets now? >> no. >> we're on tv and we're outspoken -- >> i think all the people in our lives, our close friends, the officials that helped us walked alongside our family in the dark days it want a secret. people knew they had walked us through this journey. it's a done deal. >> we didn't feel like there was any need to share private information with people who weren't a part of the problem or the solution. we had dealt with that when the investigation with our family was closed after all those months they said your parents have done an amazing job. they were praising our parents and said your home is a safe place for children. >> what about some of the family's critics would argue you put your neck out there because not only did you go on tv but you advocated strong christian values. and now critics are saying you've essentially waved your right to do that not you the victims necessarily but the family shouldn't have been out there doing that since they knew what had happened. is that fair? >> well i think that some people i've heard them saying you're hypocrites. well if you go back and look at everything that people have seen in our lives in television you know we've never claimed to be a perfect family. my parents have always actually stated you know we are not a perfect family. we are just a family -- >> with challenges just like everybody else. >> with lots of kids that has 20 times more people in our family. >> how about josh. he's been out there with the family research council, talking about family values and suggesting certain lifestyles aren't appropriate, particularly the gay and lesbian lifestyles. >> if you've had failures in your past, it doesn't mean you can't be changed. i think the real issue is people are making this sound like it happened yesterday and that it happened yesterday. >> and that it was very very severe. >> it happened 12 years ago when he was a child himself. i think seeing the change in his life we witnessed it, we know. >> we're the people who live with him. jessa made a good point as we were talking. sheep said she said, you know, i think the viewers feel like they're in our home every night, and when people are coming up to us and saying hey, jessa, hi jill hi. >> but we don't have have that personal. >> so people expecting to know every detail of our lives when this happened long ago -- >> before the tv show. >> we're not going to say, hi nice to meet you, here's everything that's ever gone on. >> of course. when you found out this was going to be on the cover of "in touch weekly," what was your reaction? >> we were pretty serious. we were not happy. >> i was in tears. i couldn't believe what was going on. whenever i heard the police reports had been released i said what -- they didn't have the right to do this. we're victims. they can't do this to us. >> and yet they did. >> and they did. >> a system that was set up to protect kid, both those who make stupid mistakes or have problems like this in their lives and the ones that are affected by those choices, it's greatly failed. and for us it's like go to the store and there's your picture on a magazine or whatever and you're like -- >> and they're like whatever thing they might say, you know legally, we can do this we can do that it's like obviously not, like they're not protecting us here. >> and the freedom of information act is not -- you can't foia a juvenile case that's a fact. so there's some hokey pokey going on. >> i know that the tabloids that released it they're used to exploiting women. they have the parent company >> well bauer, they're a major porn provider. maybe their mindset they're just used to making objects out of women and maybe we just didn't seem any different. >> but, jill when we see the tears, what was it? what was it about the disclosure that was so painful? >> well, i see it as a revictimization that's even a thousand times worse. >> why? >> because this is something that was already dealt with. we've already forgiven josh we've already moved on. >> is it humiliating? what is the emotion that you're feeling? >> well, it's not the truth, first of all. everything was distorted. and so we feel like our story was not being told. and we felt like it shouldn't have been told. we're -- the victims are the only ones that can speak for themselves. so now that it's already been warped into however they want to portray it then we felt like that's why jessa and i wanted to come out and just say that's not what happened. we've dealt with it we've taken care of it. >> do you feel like you're speaking on behalf of your other sisters, too? >> no, we can't. we can't speak for the other ones. but i feel like as far as -- >> i can speak for the others as far as saying that everybody's angry that it's been publicized. >> how about when it comes to forgiving josh? >> we've all forgiven. >> that was long ago. >> the baby-sitter as well? >> definitely. >> your parents suggest they're looking into legal action against the parties involved. >> up next the women answer that question they discuss the (dad) i wear a dozen different hats doing small gigs, side gigs...gig gigs. quickbooks self-employed helps me get ready for tax time. to separate expenses, i just swipe. it's the one hat i don't mind wearing. 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(vo) stay in the flow with quickbooks self-employed. start your free, thirty-day trial today at join-self-employed-dot-com. jill and jessa duggar feel violated by the public disclosure of their ordeal but do they feel someone should be punished? watch. >> your parents suggest they're looking into legal action against the parties involved. do you agree with that? >> i can say what was done was very wrong. the terrible thing about being a victim is that you're helpless in the moment over the action of others. and then i feel like in this situation we're again helpless as to the people handing over this report and then the tabloids taking that and printing that sensationalizing it and really using it for their own profit. >> we've seen so many in this country stand up on behalf of child victims. we've seen very little of that on behalf of your privacy rights and the record and testimony would be sealed. do you think it has something to do with who your family are? >> i definitely feel that people who already don't like our family would be the ones to really spread this around and maliciously do so slanderously do so. definitely they didn't have the victims in mind. >> i feel for the girls. no you really don't because if you did, you would respect our wish for things to remain private. that's been a violation of trust. >> and i feel for the other families out there. i mean statistics say two-thirds of families deal with something like that and that's only the families who are reporting it. and i feel for the other victims out there and other families who maybe the parents may take a pause before they do something to report or to take care of what's going on and maybe, you know these other victims will continue to live just not even having their situations dealt with. >> someone referred back to the charges -- or the incident initially and said the only reason charges weren't brought was that the statute of limitations had run by the time the police looked into this. would you ever have supported a prosecution against josh? >> i think by the time that all of that was done the report was made and everything it was very obvious to everyone us and our family friends, officials that josh was a completely changed person. he had not gone down that path for years, he was -- he was humble before god, before us before the officials that were involved. >> we all went through professional counseling and josh did, too. he had to pay for his own. >> did you have to work that out? what were you working out will? >> you know what you do in counseling. you talk about what happened you talk about the actions that have been taken. we really wanted to make sure that everything in our hearts was dealt with. >> was it cathartic for you? did you solve some things in there? >> it was really good and i'm really grateful that my parents encouraged us to go through that to get that licensed counseling and all what. it was really helpful for us to just close that chapter and move past it. it really was. >> for you looking back with the exclusion of the disclosure of it today, in the recent weeks, what was the most difficult part of it for you? >> you said with the exclusion of today? >> yeah. >> i don't think we can exclude today. definitely it was difficult whenever all this came up the shock of this happened and then talking about it with the family and counseling i mean every step was kind of like difficult to walk through, but i'd definitely say that these past two weeks have been a thousand times worse for us. >> do you care about the tlc show? do you want to see it continue? >> you know we've always just had the mindset of this show is just a window of opportunity that god's allowed our family to be on television and to share with other people our lives. >> what about the fact that that opportunity may now disappear, not just for josh and your parents but for you as well. >> life goes on really. we're not a tv family. we're a family that just happened to be on tv. >> we do love our film crew i will say. we have the best film crew. they're like family to us. and so we'll see. we'll see what life brings. so we don't know at this point. >> this is it right? it's not like another big duggar family secret that is going to come out. >> no. >> so you feel if you can weather this storm with tlc -- >> you know we've been through a lot together. i think our viewers have seen that just the journey our family has taken, it's not always been easy on television yet we've still allowed the filming to take place, allowed people to see our struggles, from our little sister josie being premature and funerals and stuff. so this is another struggle that weir going through right now, another hard time but i think it's bringing our family even closer together. >> definitely. we'll make it through this too. we were saying that. i was like guys we all love each other like crazy. >> thank you so much for speaking with us and telling your stories. >> remarkable. the duggar girls talked repeatedly about the media and how they felt victimized not once but twice. >> what was it about it that was so here at td ameritrade, they love innovating. and apparently, they also love stickers. what's up with these things, victor? 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>> i'll tell you, we were pretty serious. we were not happy. >> i called and i was in tears. i couldn't believe what was going on. whenever i heard the police reports had been release, then i said what -- they didn't have a right to do this. we're victims, they can't do this to us. >> and yet they did. >> they did. >> jill duggar dillard explaining how the decision of "in touch" magazine releasing the reports made her feel victimized all over again. in what was extraordinary in that moment howie, is as the silence dawned on the room and tears flowed you could hear jill's infant son, two months old, crying in the room above us son crying as his mother suffered below, recalling the pain of the past two weeks and her sister sitting next to her is pregnant expecting her first baby too. these are vibrant, beautiful young women who are supposed to be in the prime of their lives, and you tell me what if any, ethical obligations "in touch" magazine had to think of them before they put that story in their magazine basically identifying them as sex abuse victims. >> watching jill and jessa bravely struggle through that interview, through the tears, watching them say that they felt victimized a thousand times worse by a tabloid than the original unwanted touching just breaks your heart. and so put aside the legalities i have to ask the moral question why is it okay for "in touch weekly" and every other media outlet on the planet to violet an ironclad rule of journalism and essentially identify these young women? >> they did because they revealed that it was the sisters. it doesn't take a lot of math to figure out who was what age at the time and who is in that police report. and we're supposed to follow this code where we don't do that. and what happened to the code? is it that this is a christian outspoken family that does pass judgment on certain people's lifestyles? i get it. but i didn't see that exception in the ethics book. >> absolutely. i think that maybe there was a sense that this is a reality show these people put themselves out there, they preach christian values, they're hypocrites, they're fair game. it all seemed fairly abstract when the media was wrapping up this story about the duggar family and molestation. but when you look at the two women, one a mother one about to be a mother it's almost like they were collateral damage no one thought of them. >> i see these pundits on other shows saying who was there to protect them? where were the parents? where is there condemnation of the media to throw away the confidentiality that was promised to those girls and guaranteed under the law? i don't see it. >> what's stunning is the media's conduct in the whole thing has been a non-issue because it's so much easier to feast on this spectacle. i don't have any problem with criticism of josh duggar who did not attend the interview and i don't have any criticism of the parents of putting them in the glare of a reality show while having this secret. but to listen to jill and jessa is a heartbreaking clinic that media can inflict a lot of damage on people and those two women, who are the victims, who in some ways didn't feel like the victims, they were dealing with their brother who they loved, they were dragged through the mud there. they didn't want to be sitting there talking to you but they had to and it was brave of them to tell their story. >> and what about other victims out there considering going forward, considering calling that hotline and the only way they will do it is there is a promise of confidentiality and they will be -- >> that's the worst of it. police say it's confidential and it will never come out. counselors come forward. they see this and there's got to be some gnawing doubt that they shouldn't come forward. that's the question for the media to wrestle with and they need to wrestle with it. all of us need to wrestle with it. at what point is the story not worth it because of the damage inflicted on people who, in this particular case didn't ask for this were victims of abuse within their own family. >> howie, thank you. >> my pleasure. >> jessa and jill were brave enough to speak out about such a sensitive topic in the midst of their family crisis. up next we'll ask an expert about the choice the what up wheels! mr. auto-mo-deal! hey, it's the wheel deal! hey, hey, the duke of deals! i know a few guys in the rental car biz. let's go, 'wheels'. rental car deals up to 40% off.have a sunset mode. and an early morning mode. and a partly sunny mode. and an outside... to clear inside mode. transitions® signature® adaptive lenses ...are more responsive than ever. so why settle for a lens with just one mode? experience life well lit®. upgrade your lenses to transitions® signature®. get up to ninety dollars back when you combine crizal, varilux and transitions... and buy a second pair with xperio uv polarized sun lenses. visit transitions.com to learn more. i said you know victims, you furrowed your brow a little. do you feel like the victim of a molestation? >> well i think in the case of what josh did, was very wrong. i'm not going to justify anything that he did, or say it was okay. it's not permissible. but i do want to speak up in his defense against people who are calling him a child molester or a pedophile, or a rapist some people are saying. that is so overboard, and a lie, really. >> jessa duggar talking about her brother, josh. emily horowitz holds a doctorate in sociology, and she is also the author of protecting our kids. how sex offender laws are failing us. emily, thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> what did you make of the girls' testimonial there? >> i think it highlights the complex nature of sexual abuse within families particularly when the perpetrators are also children. >> how so? >> they clearly love their brother. it wouldn't have necessarily been the best thing if he had been sent to prison put on the sex offender registry for life. this family faced a terrible choice. one-third of people who sexually abuse children are children themselves. so as a society, we have to recognize this. we don't talk about this. many people on the sex offender registry are children. >> as young as 9 or 10 years old. >> that's right. so in researching my book i interviewed many people who grew up on the registry who were convicted of sex offenses as children, for things very similar to this. the average age of people who sexually abuse children who are child sexual abusers of children they're 14. >> that's important. because we looked into this. i think a question a lot of people have is josh duggar a child molester in the way that we understand that term today? is this somebody who is likely to reoffend in the way we see child adult molesters do over and over again? >> in general, children sexual offenders have a lower recidivism rate thank we commonly believe. >> really? >> we like to think they're predator and uncontrollable. that's a very very small percentage of people who are convicted of sex offenses. juvenile sex offenders, like josh duggar have even lower rates. the treatment is effective. >> we saw 2009 department of justice study that said those who offend around this age, 14 15 years old, 85% to 90% of them never commit another sexual offense again, that's true? >> that's a credible study. another study found a lower rate of reoffense. treatment works, intervention works. >> let me ask you this. the girls, you know you talk about how the parents faced a terrible choice. we talked about that the other night. a lot of viewers said they did not. it was a clear choice. you turn in the son. you get him out of the house immediately to protect your other daughters. because the duggars didn't do that immediately, they had other girls fall victim to what they view as a predator. >> there's so much emotion and hysteria surrounding this issue. the minute this story came out what troubled me is the pitchforks came out. can you imagine having one child who sexually -- accused of sexually abusing your other children? that's a terrible dill lem a. they love their sons and daughters, they want to protect everyone. if you go to the police you'll be taken out of the home. you'll be put in jail. >> immediately. >> immediately. >> you involve the cops -- >> you involve the cops -- >> although they didn't do that here. they went to a state trooper and this didn't happen initially. >> that's true. >> what message the outing of this the backlash against the family is sending to other child abuse victims? sexual abuse victims? >> i think families are going to be even more hesitant to get help. >> thank you for being here. >> thank you so much. coming up, some final thoughts before we go. t hp instant ink can save you up to 50% on ink, so print all you want and never run out. right now, buy an eligible printer and get three months of free ink with hp instant ink. available at participating retailers. the most affordable way to print. hp instant ink. esurance was born online. which means fewer costs, which saves money. their customer experience is virtually paperless which saves paper, which saves money. they have smart online tools so you only pay for what's right for you which saves money. they settle claims quickly which saves time, which saves money. they drive an all-hybrid claims fleet which saves gas, which saves money. they were born online, and built to save money, which means when they save, you save. because that's how it should work in the modern world. esurance. backed by allstate. click or call. have a sunset mode. and an early morning mode. and a partly sunny mode. and an outside... to clear inside mode. transitions® signature® adaptive lenses ...are more responsive than ever. so why settle for a lens with just one mode? experience life well lit®. upgrade your lenses to transitions® signature®. get up to ninety dollars back when you combine crizal, varilux and transitions... and buy a second pair with xperio uv polarized sun lenses. visit transitions.com to learn more. aah...it's evening again. time for the perfect night time snack. ♪ beautiful on the tongue, delightful to the bite easy on the conscience. who said, breakfast has to wait until morning? kellogg's®. see you at breakfast, tonight.™ ♪ and enjoy a free one day dvd rental when you buy any specially marked kellogg's box. the judge in the duggars juvenile case said this report should never have been disclosed. if the law says it's okay to out child sex abuse victims in this way, the law needs to be changed. this case my shine a light on how we can better protect young victims, in their homes and in the media. if you are someone in need of help please find the courage to come forward. call 1-800-4-a-child. i'm megyn kelly. thank you for watching. you can do this greg. you can do this. this is your show. don't screw it up like last week. this one's going to be the one. this is going to be the one. you can do it. go get them, greg. hey. >> i want to talk to you. i'm talking to everybody. it could be my son, it could be anybody. you don't mess around with that garbage, understand me? >> what garbage? >> don't make a jerk out of me you understand? don't do it. >> okay. you're right, i won't. >> i got your job, right?

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