0 this law is designed to vastly expand medicaid and pay for it by eviscerating medicare. taking money from medicare and moving it to fund the expansion of the entitlement. >> why would they want to expand medicaid? >> they believe in a single payer system. this is a way of shifting resources in this country from one group of people -- the the elderly -- to another group of people. >> you think this is by design. >> i have read the law. there is no question that it was by design. it would have been twice as big but the supreme court ruled a year and a half ago the states couldn't be forced to expand medicaid. >> only half did. the republicans didn't do it and the democratically controlled -- >> largely true. that's right. some of the states were very smart. they realized even though the federal government said it will pay 100% the first couple of years and 90% thereafter, politicians always break their promises. when that happens, they will pull the rug out the from under the states which already spend 24% of budget on medicaid. they will have huge costs so there is no money left for schools, roads. >> we are expanding medicaid rolls day by day with no way to fund it. who foots it is bill? >> the elderly. $716 billion is taken from medicare and shifted to medicaid. a lot of it is across the board cuts to hospitals. one section of the law, section 3000-a awards bonus points to hospitals that spend the least per senior. not per patient. i wouldn't take my beloved dog to the vet that spent the least per animal. why take my mother to the hospital who spend it is least per senior? >> coming up in 20 minutes zeke emmanuel joins us, brother of rahm emanuel. he's a respected doctor but has been under fire since the law was born. i'm going to ask him was the president misleading when he said we can keep your doctors and plans or was he just mistaken? it is clear now hundreds of thousands, if not millions of americans aren't able to keep their plans and doctors. what do you want to know? i know you have been a critic. >> first of all, it's not what i want to know from him. i have read his writings thoroughly. his values, i believe, are dangerous and most americans would agree with me. in an article he says doctors in america take the hip cat tick oath too seriously and focus too much on the needs of the patients. they ought to think if the resources could be better used for the teenaged mother down the hall or another patient. when you're in the exam room on the b table you want your doctor to be focused only on what he or she can do for you. >> i will ask him about that and other things. he says 65-year-olds had their chance. >> i will ask him that. reports now of four california law enforcement officers shot. we just got the video. a serious response. we have reports an armed and dangerous suspect is on the loose now. trace? >> happening in roseville, california, just outside of sacramento. the immigration and customs enforcement officer was involved in an operation with police to get a suspect named sammy durand. he began opening fire, struck an i.c.e. officer. we are told the officer will survive. the suspect fled. he was chased by roseville police officers. he continued to fire. conflicting information. one police officer says two officers were hit with shrapnel and a fourth officer has been hit. two of the officers will be fine. unclear if there is a fourth officer involved and that officer's condition. the suspect began running over fences, through fields and is now holed up, we believe, inside a home. there were reports that it was a hostage situation. now police say there are no hostages inside. they do believe the suspect is inside. the scanner traffic shows he's opening blinds and windows. we are hearing gunshots and we are seeing heavy equipment go in there including armored vehicles, s.w.a.m. tet. teams. but what if the most important question is the one you're not asking? 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(both) i'm happy. i'm happy. happy. happy. happy. happy. happy happy. i love logistics. government. i don't think anyone fully realized that both volume caused problems but also exposed some problems. actually, i didn't realize it wouldn't be operating optimally before the launch. >> so we are blaming republicans, blaming the public, blaming the staff. what about ms. sebelius? joining me now radio talk show host dana lash and richard fowler. i have said it many the air. one of my mentors brit hume says winners take responsibility. losers blame others. i am not calling the secretary a loser. that mantra rings true because people only listen to you in terms of fixing a problem when you acknowledge there is one and take responsibility for it. wouldn't she be better served if she did that? >> my mom said actions speak louder than words. we have seen from her actions as she called in the best of the best. beyond that she's all across the country trying to fix -- >> she's taking action, but what about stopping and looking at the cameras and saying, you know what, american people, i'm sorry for the hours you have had to waste sitting on this website that doesn't work that you paid $400 million for. i'm sorry you're getting kicked off your insurance plans contrary to my promises and president obama's promises. >> she said that by saying we didn't anticipate the flaws. we'll do everything we can to fix them. we'll hear her in congress next week say the same thing. listen, we need to make sure we get it done. at the end of the day, history won't judge whether or not the system didn't work the first three weeks. history will judge how many people got health care, how many people got to see the doctor. >> so, dana, if they had to spend days wasting their time online and they are getting letters from insurance carriers situation with this poor operator who took sean's call andle told him the truth about what she was told to tell the public about obama care. got fired for speaking to sean but kathleen sebelius has her job. watch. >> you took my call, answered our questions. the next day, what happened? >> they fired me. >> wow. then what happened. did you get escorted out? >> yes, sir. i got escorted out. >> were you surprised cakathlee sebelius still has her job and you got fired for doing yours? >> yes, sir. >> single mom. nice. what do you think? >> i can't speak to how or why she was terminated. but this law works. people are seeing the benefits of itment we can sit here -- >> richard, stop it. there are working parts of the law. >> there are working parts of the law. >> don't come on here and spin. everybody has acknowledged that this is a debacle. don't spin the viewers that the roll out hasn't been a debacle. >> i agree that the website isn't working. the roll out isn't as good as it should have been. we saw it under medicare part d under the bush administration. when you roll out big plans there will be issues. >> then you take responsibility for them. who has done it? dana, who has taken responsibility? >> a glitch is when it temporarily stops working and can be fixed. this is fubar. this is a snafu, complete and utter fail. not a kink or a glitch. this is a failure. the website is ent gral to the law. >> not true. >> if it works why are they -- >> that's not true. >> then implement it fully, no exceptions without delay. >> we have issued 50 million people db. >> you delayed the businessman date. you can monologue over me -- >> the individuals and lifetime is now gone. >> richard -- the. >> hold on. >> you're being rude. >> hold on. >> we can debate until the cows come home the substance of the law. no question the substance of the website people pay hundreds of millions of dollars has been a failure. the administration is admitting it but no one takes responsibility for it. poor earline was fired. she's gone. >> sad. >> thanks, megyn. tonight, the man they call the architect of obama care. dr. zeke emmanuel will join me live. i will ask him tough questions. it will be interesting to hear what he says. plus, disturbing video released in the brutal beating of a florida college student. tonight, questions about whether a muslim street gang is to blame and whether this is an isolated oh kurps. new pictures from roseville, california, as reports of up to four officers shot surfaced. don't go away. 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