for the g.o.p. nomination. surprise announcement, minutes ago, rick santorum stepped aside. bring in now karl rove. known as the architect for reaction to news. karl, good to have you here. >> thank you for having me. >> eric: surprised? >> yeah. i thought the events last week where he met with conservative leaders, including some that launched out on his behalf over the weekend he would stay until pennsylvania. it suspect the campaign, literally consists of santorum, his family and two close advisors, john braybender and mark rogers came to the realization they were in danger of losing pennsylvania, at least the delegate count. even if they won the beauty contest and decided to pull the rip cord. >> eric: what do you think? >> bob: to suspend your campaign means you're in debt. you could keep it going the see if you get the debt paid off. santorum had a number of things to face. bad calendar, not just pennsylvania. perhaps the real challenge was delegates and perhaps the popular vote. he is a guy you cannot argue this is close to his family. a daughter getting out of the hospital. that hit him hard. the reality of his daughter being sick, and newt gingrich supposedly getting out on sunday and then newt comes back and says -- classic newt. he comes back and says by the way, this is a two-man race. >> dana: it was a weekend for resurrection. >> bob: very good. that's very good. >> dana: that is why you sat here, karl, for that. >> think about this. new york, connecticut, rhode island and delaware were all voting at the end of the month. he had already suffered a loss in the wyoming state convention. it was not going to be a pleasant run for him. he was going to follow, he followed probably another 100. >> bob: equally as unpleasant for newt gingrich. some of those places, ron paul -- it was just for santorum, the certain point, we wish -- this race has been over for a long time. the problem is the super committees kept it going. santorum had his best strength there. romney weathered his worst month. came out of it all right. was about to go in the big states. rack up delegates and get the nomination. >> andrea: he deserves credit. nobody thought he would do this well. the rick santorum is the underdog's underdog and he went on to win, i believe, 11 states. look at how he lost pennsylvania last time around. 18 points. he had to say to himself another loss in my home state. about my legacy. and also within the republican party. how much good face do you lose by continuing to stay in? i want to ask you. what does newt gingrich want? i got an update for the campaign to set the calendar for the rest of the week. he has an active calendar? what is he doing? >> he is $4.5 million in debt he acknowledged sunday, which probably means he is $6.7 million or $7 million in debt. he will stay in the race and try to be a force. he wants to be a player and more delegates he can win. he is hoping i think he ends up being in a place he gets more delegates and is a bigger player. you are right. rick santorum said it well this afternoon. he said it was the most improbable presidential campaign. he went a long way with not much. not much in the way of money. not much in the way of public support. not much in the way of endorsements of the colleagues that served with him. or even back. it was guts and adrenaline and caffeine. he did a pretty darn good job. >> andrea: yes, he did. >> greg: karl, good to see you. we go back a long time when you ran my student corps judge campaign in high school that i won handily. >> but i didn't run the next race. >> greg: because of the german films i made. >> our guys found that ourselves. >> greg: the last time i ran for office wasn't to help the school. it was to help me. i am getting the feeling that santorum didn't lose. he won here. he went from a senator that lost badly to basically a voice of the party. isn't that what we are seeing now? we see people run in a way tone chance the brand with no intention of winning at all? >> there is some truth to that. but there is a moment my gosh, i could do this. newt gingrich started out saying i want to be a player. have the ancillary advantage, not the principal advantage, but selling more books and be commentator. then he wakes up and says wait a minute, i'm leading. then he says i could be a player. it could be a contender. there is something about it that gets you going. particularly in an effort like this. again, this campaign is two long time aids and the family. it was probably over some time ago. kept going bill people around him that said you have a shot. >> bob: there will be sympathy for santorum. gave a nice speech. let's not under estimate the damage that both he and newt gingrich did to mitt romney along the way. this race in any other year has not been a super pacs, this would have been over a month-and-a-half ago. romney suffered big blows for these guys. the question is how active will they be? santorum won't be active. if newt says he is active behind, i've never seen newt active behind anybody but newt. i guess he wants to go to the convention and get platform committee. that's what he wants. >> he can't be platform of the committee. the house rules says he can't be a -- >> greg: but a quick question. suspending campaign, do they have to pay that debt? i would love to send my bar bill. does the bill stay there forever? >> you have to whittle it down. like you and your bar bill, you can stretch it out forever and every and every. >> dana: garnish your wages. >> that is another reason i won't hand your next campaign. you added another piece of bad opo in the story line. >> andrea: we could have fundraisers for you on "the five." >> eric: dana, a friend of yours, ed gillispie announced he will join the romney campaign. did it have anything to do with rick santorum saying maybe this is now a formidable performer. >> dana: i'm proud to share friendship with ed and karl. he is one of the smartest people. when i saw that as a republican i thought if romney is the nominee, you can't ask for a better team player than gillispie. i don't think he had anything to do with santorum getting out necessarily. bob probably hit the reasons why. but if you are romney and he won more counties than all the other candidate what is should romney do or say in the next few weeks to try to bring over people who maybe voted for santorum or gingrich or ron paul in particular? what does romney need to do or say to get over on his side? >> his comments today courteous and positive toward santorum were good. he needs to, in order to bring the people aboard he needs to keep it focused on obama. the thing that unites all the people there. gingrich people, you know, bachmann people, santorum people. they want obama out of there. it's aimed at the swing voters will motivate. >> bob: but the demographics of the race play themselves out consistently throughout. romney had his particular people who were if you want to call it establishment, i don't like that word. but nonetheless, very conservative base voted against him consistently place after place. they are not going to vote against him. they are going to vote against barack obama. here is the question. they supply the energy and a lot of the votes. if in ohio where southern ohio has a large evangelical population of voters for republicans if 5% of them stayed at home because they don't want romney, they are not excited about romney or don't work that hard, that is the real fear. it's not that they won't vote for barack obama but will they vote for mitt romney? the w the enthusiasm they did for george bush? >> i can answer that. being in southwest ohio, spoken to republicans in the lincoln day dinner cincinnati, last week. >> they are wired up and ready to go. they had the biggest lincoln day dinner decades. this is hot bed of republican enthusiasm. it's there. >> eric: we want to move on. yesterday we touched on mormonism issue and if it would affect the romney campaign. if it was, where would it come from? last night, brit hume on o'reilly. this is what he said. >> we had a lot of people who were mormon, prominent people in the country and governor of massachusetts who was mormon. is there any real evidence that mormonism affected the conduct of their life in public policy in any peculiar way? i say no. harsh criticism of people's religion goes over badly with most americans. if you get attacks heard last week that congressman labrador was talking about, won't hurt him. it may help him. >> eric: agree? >> i spent part of my child in utah. only place a presbyterian and jew could be gentiles. i'm offended by the attention that the media has given. front cover of "time" to examine beliefs of the mormon. what had happened if after the 2000 nomination of joe lieberman, "time" or "newswee "newsweek" or "new york times" ran an article to examine in detail religious views of jews? this came as close to religious test as we have seen in recent years. i was at the white house in 2007 when mitt was running last time around. it had someone examine all the coverage to george s. romney mormonism in 1967 when he was the front runner. no coverage in any news magazine. >> bob: seven years before that, there was a lot of attention on jack kennedy's catholicism. that was the birth of that, the anti-catholicism came from the southern baptist convention. i will tell you among strong evangelicals they don't like -- don't try to stir it up, it's bad politics. useless thing to do. but there are a percentage of evangelical christians who believe that the mormons are a cult. they don't like them. >> it ought to be condemned. no role in the election. given choice, like the guy we introduced rick perry, the pastor from the church in dallas. given a choice of voting for mormon or obama, i am going for the mormon. even after condemning mormon beliefs. >> bob: all i'm saying it would be naive of us to think there are not people out there who are strong evangelicals -- >> do you join us condemning that? >> bob: i do. but it doesn't change the reality. >> andrea: according to pew research, overwhelming portion of the country does believe in something. religious people will see this as an attack too far. you go too negative on politics. republicans with bill clinton saw that. if they go too negative, it will backfire. >> eric: they want us to get out of here but does this come from the campaign, dnc or the media, self-generated from the media? >> dana: everyone now is on notice you can't do it directly so it's subliminal. that's weird. i don't think they will do it directly. i don't even think that people at some of the most liberal news outlets will do it. >> greg: what do you expect coming from a wickan. >> dana: it's really popular, actually. >> eric: we have to tease. thank you for karl rove. thank you for joining me. >> thank you for letting me part of the five-and-a-half. >> eric: coming up. president bush is back in the news today. what does 43 think of president obama's tax the rich plan? we tell you all about it when we come back. dobe forget to e-mail us at [email protected]. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ [ tom ] we invented the turbine business right here in schenectady. without the stuff that we make here, you wouldn't be able to walk in your house and flip on your lights. they go into power plants which take some form of energy, harness it, and turn it into more efficient electricity. 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[ laughter ] ♪ ♪ ♪ >> dana: well, it's that season. it happens every year. it's tax season. and ahergy season for some people. president bush was in new york city today. part of his, the bush center, go to bushcenter.com you can read more about this. he put together different economy to look at growth and target 4% growth. listen to what the former president said today. >> if you raise taxes, on the so-called rich, you are really raising taxes on the job creators. if the goal is private sector growth, you have to recognize the best way to create that growth is leave capital in the treasury of the job creators. >> dana: well, bob just groaned loudly. we'll listen to one more person who was there today. it was chris christie, governor chris christie of new jersey. i heard from a few people there he was electric, spoke without notes. take a listen to him as well. >> it's because government is now telling them stop drea dreaming. stop striving. we'll take care of you. we're turning into a paternalistic entitlement society. >> dana: so before we go to president obama competing event in florida where he talked about the buffet rule and his tax plan, andrea, i want to ask you. chris christie, you have people say wow! president bush doesn't get out there much. when chris christie hits the stage, it was like this is somebody we could follow. what did you think? >> andrea: he is a rock star. just the way he put things, we didn't play the sound bite but he talked about people sitting on their couches. this is what we've become. a nation of people sitting on their couches waiting for a check. the way he delivers things compared to politicians who use the sound bites and they mince their words. the president does this all the time. chris christie breaks it down. people are ready for the truth and for someone to be honest and break it down. that's exactly what he does. he is a rising star in the party. if not the biggest star. >> dana: that is well said. now set up the controversy and we can throw more fuel before the match is lit between these two over here. it was president obama who talked about the buffett rule. there have been three different explanations from the white house in the last year about what this would mean. let's hear from the president himself. >> what drags the economy down is benefit of the economic growth go only to the few. which has been happening for a decade now. the gap between those at the very, very top and everybody else keeping growing wider and wider and wider and wider. here in america we look out for one another. here in america we help each other get ahead. here in america, we have a sense of common purpose. >> dana: that was not a campaign event. you paid for that. official event, apparently. greg? >> greg: you asked me before while that was going on if i had anything funny to say. i have absolutely nothing funny to say. this is really upsetting me. we know, they admit that is not about deficit reduction. because the buffett rule raises $5 billion. it's not about deficit reduction. it's about fairness. so it's not a tax to solve a problem. it's a tax to solve an emotion. or to create an emotional response. the worst you can imagine. envy. they admit that doesn't help anything except to make you feel better about hurting somebody else. disgusting. >> bob: they did say they weren't going to put a big debt in the deficit. >> dana: that is not what they originally said. >> andrea: $47 billion. >> eric: over ten years. $4.7 million. >> andrea: fund the government for five days. >> dana: last year when they first sold it -- we'll get you and then bob to wrap it up. well, not just wrap it up. the original explanation from the white house when they first put this out it was for deficit reduction. then when nonpartisan tokes said that's actually not true. they had a second explanation. they had a proactive conference call to tell reporters they just want to make sure it's clear this was not, they don't have any illusions that this is for deficit reduction. i have to ask you, what is the point? >> eric: you are talking about the buffett rule. warren buffett come on to fox and let's talk about this. have a man-to-man talk about this. do you really mean, do you think obama is right when he characterizes it this rule as the warren buffett rule? i heard warren buffett say it's not just about taxing people who make $1 million or more. it's about drastic reductions in spending cuts. it's about tax reform. it's about simpson-bowles and a package of reform. for some reason, president obama wants the buffett rule. and use his name. i have a hunch warren buffett would not sign on the dotted line. >> dana: let's get bob in here. >> bob: as usual, i have 30 seconds to do something that's complicated so i'll try to get it down. here is the reality. when bill clinton took over he raised taxes, upper level taxes to 39.6%. george bush cut them to 36%. here is the outcome of both of their years. jobs created, 20 million under bill clinton. george bush, 1 million. real gdp growth, 4% average under bill clinton. under 2% under george bush. george bush -- bill clinton gave george bush a budget surplus of $236.4 billion. and george bush, estimated $1 trillion surplus and we ended up in debt about $450 million under george bush. >> eric: bill clinton rode the whole -- >> bob: you can argue all you want. those are facts. i don't care what he rode. you ride what you get. he was lucky. >> bob: if it were reversed, you would be outraged saying first of all, president bush inherited a recession. secondly, we also inherited 9/11. thirdly, you didn't do anything about entitlement. you could go on and on. >> andrea: they are saying that. >> dana: i'm saying if it was reversed he'd argue the other way. you can argue both ways. it's a lot more complex than those numbers. >> bob: you wanted to ask about the tax increases. that's what this discussion is about. >> andrea: the bush tax cuts are firing and capital gains will go up anyway. this is a double tax increase on investment. >> andrea: that is a lie. >> bob: don't say that is a lie. >> andrea: don't say nothing happened. nothing happened with the bush tax cuts? we had how much consecutive months of job growth >> eric: >> bob: don't use the word "lie." >> andrea: sorry, that's not true. >> bob: it's right here. what do you need? >> dana: we'll move on to something more fun. aleck baldwin is in the headlines. this time he is not the one singing like a lunatic. he has a stalker. we have new info about that for you. stick around. ♪ ♪ what makes us number one in motorcyclinsurance? we love bikes. we love riders. and most of all, we love to ride. perfect hair every time. leading the pack in motorcycle insurance. now, that's progressive. call or click today. >> greg: welcome back. a mural at high school has been deemed offensive. what is perverse of the paint job? it has a man's life from youth to adulthood, standing with man and child, wedding rings above their heads. i know, it's disgusting. the mural was to be painted inside pilgrim high school. but the young artist had been told there was a complaint and the mural didn't reflect life experiences of all the kids at the school. it was only one complaint, but today that is all it takes to get the offending art painted over, which it was. why shouldn't it be? thinking that marriage is a life goal. hasn't she seen "sex and the city"? settling down is for suckers. they think the religious undertones that was offensive. that's the part that was painted over. later they wanted it painted back to the original state. we live in an environment that seems a stable environment isn't good and it's hurtful because so many people don't live that way. would it be better if two gays kissing passionately over a rainbow? that's in my reading room. i got no complaints. this is time to champion this as alternative lifestyle. these day