presidential debate. well, as expected there was no shortage of attacks on poor rick perry. many coming from his top challenger mitt romney. we got together and talked about what the headlines would be to describe best last night's debate. anandrea you have a good one. >> the one i wrote for the daily news. the frontrunners fumbled as the second tier candidates outshine the a-list. whoever said this was a two person race probably is right but the second tier candidates last night took the top tier candidates to task on the issues. depth thatea breadth and deppd the others didn't. prosecutorry and romney looked like the honeymooners at one point. michele bachmann didn't get a lot of air time but when she did she had good answers. >> and cain. >> cain was great. romney probably won because he played not to lose but perry has some work to do. we said yesterday on the show. he has got to show a mastery of the policy issues beyond texas and didn't do it. he petered out during an opportunity to really hammer mitt romney. >> concern about whether or not he was escaped spousing true conservative values and his hit on immigration et cetera seat a. dana, a good one. >> shake it don't break it because that was the goal of the night for the second tier candidates in particular which was to try to hold on and shake it up a little bit and make sure that everybody remembers that they were in the race and to try to keep going for another few weeks. >> you think they managed to do that? >> i do. yes. i think so. and in particular i don't think any one needs to drop out now. there is another debate coming up october 11 and certainly michele bachmann has her book coming out in november. the difficulty is trying to have enough money to be able to keep the operations going but a lot of these campaigns aren't spending that much so they can stay in for awhile. >> you made a point about the campaign, bachman has concern that maybe she is losing some of her financial supporters. everybody on the stage there seemed leak they were in it and could be the nominee. greg, you have a good one. >> my headline is huntsman endorses wife. >> smart man. >> i think we have tape of captain charming now. >> chris, first of all, it is an honor to be here in orlando, home of my wife, the greatest human being i have known in 28 years. >> so, kind of a backhanded compliment. just 28 years. there was somebody better before that? i mean really. >> i know. >> that is why he will never be president. >> skwrao: you think so? >> for me that just knocked him right out of competition. >> he stles knocked out of the competition way before you gave that headline, believe me if she was so great why wowd p wot he put her on the vp ticket. >> me head line was about immigration. seems there is a lot of discontent and dissatisfaction with perry's answers. that one in particular he took a hit. the twitter and blogs and people like the take away was wait a second, why is this guy doing and why is he staying so staunchly in support of allowing illegal immigrants to be able to get the same instate tuition as those that are lawful citizens diswhrarks didn't play well to the base at all. don't you think, andrea? >> i agree. probably his most liberal position and he has got to figure out a way. he doubled down last night on that answer. he is not running away from it, so i give him credit there. he doesn't move around and shift like romney does. arguably if it makes it and gets the nomination he could win a general with that position. a very important position in florida but the base is skeptical of -- i don't think there i -- giving taxpayer benefits when the people are suffering. >> he said if you don't want to give a child education who came here through no fault of your own, you are heartless. >> and speaking of which, bob has a headline, you can count on that. >> nice to be back. >> welcome back. >> i apologize in advance for whatever i say. my headline is show they are not ready for prime time, particularly the cowboy munchkin. i want to show you something i said here a few week a's go. on a serious note. the advantage of having been around a campaign at the presidential level before like mitt romney has, there is nothing better than experience. ronald reagan ran three times and got better and better with the experience. newcomers to the debates and late newcomers like fred thompson for example the last time around seem to do worse and worse because they are not prepared for it. my ronald reagan here is mitt romney. and my fred thompson is rick perry. this is what i said before to try to underscore this point if we had it. of course, we don't. >> some candidates flame out and some only gain momentum and perry is untested on the national stage. >> ronald reagan who got stronger and stronger and fred thompson who got weaker and weaker as he went along. >> my point here is that i think that perry had a lot of problems. i happen to like his thing about the kids but that is a primary, not a good primary move. a great election move. i tell you, the guy is just not up to it and this is three debates in a row now it is getting more and more pressure on him all time to produce and he hasn't produced yet. >> can i -- >> go ahead. >> the thing that is depressing to pee is kind of overall malaise of the debate. didn't seem like there was any homerun. there was nothing exciting. it seemed like last call at the star wars bar. we are all like force -- >> been there. >> that is how you found me. >> crawling on the floor. >> voters want to have their oba moment. they want to choose the person and right now it is kind of like what you are dealt. and i think they are waiting for that. >> there was not and has not been to date an amazing presidential type speech or moment for any of the candidates including the one they are going run against, president obama. it has justind of been bore aring. >> that's right. you watch that debate last night and somenex sales plummeted across america. i use it on o the munchkins. let me just say this in defense of these guys. is that in presidential debates that are that crowded until you win know it down to a few candidates it is difficult to get a breakthrough moment. so i understand that. >> the biggest moment was perry -- >> rick santorum i think not only did well. i think he went above bachman as the alternative on the values to bachmann. >> he hit all of the conservative points. >> exactly right. >> and he is a good debater as well. i think gary johnson had one of the best lines which she ripped off from rush limbaugh about the neighbor's dogs being shovel ready. a good night for dogs, bret baier. >> but lines that you steal work against you in the long run. >> that was the best thing you have ever done is take it from somebody else. >> johnson ain't shovel ready, that is his problem. this guy, what was he doin there? i don't know. what was huntsman doing there, endorsing his wife. >> at least he made a few people laugh because it was getting stale there for a moment. andrea you said about the second tier keapts. i was impressed about the way they delivered. they said we are still in this. take us seriously and we can debate and counter point. san store rusantorum was aggred prepared and made perry look bad. like that is the guy that is supposed to be the frontrunner. >> honestly, kimberly, a lot of republicans reach ford their tongues and made them take a second look at the top tier candidates. it will make romney and perry better. as bob pointed out and i do agree with you, bob, those are bumbleds that perry bummabled before. >> the cheapest part of the presidential campaign is the debate. whistling you get down three months then the money will drop some people out. >> i thought that the best headline from a conservative came from our colleague bill kristol at the weekly standard and it was one word "yikes". >> there you u go. make it a maalox moment. we are just getting started on "the five". more to talk about on the debate after the break. plus, the solyndra hearing today. if you want to weigh in on any of these topics send us an e-mail at the five @ fox news .com. stay with us. ♪ ♪ i don't want no freedom, i don't want ♪ >> what the hell is that? all right, welcome back to "the five". we are still talking about fox's gop debate last night. and here are what we think are some of the highlights. kim, what did you think was a highlight? >> i'm a big herman cain fan. i know him personally. had an experience with him with my father. he took time to speak to me about it and to my father personally when my dad was battling stage four cancer. i felt it resonate especially with the bait. peoplbase. people fear there will be turned into the british system and they will be denied medical benefits under the obama system. take a look at how he told his personal system. cute, charming. >> my surgeons and doctors told me that because i was able to get the treatment as fast as i could based upon my time table and not the government's time table that is what saved my life because i only had a 30% chance of survival. and now i'm here because i could do it on my time table and not on a ru bureaucrat's te table. >> that was good. dana? >> one of the things that was a headline of the debate really that was governor perry did not bring his a-game. and myra adams wrote that you can feel audience support slipping away. i think that the moment when had an opportunity to define mitt romney as a flip flopper he flubbed it. take a listen. >> i think americans just don't know sometimes which mitt romney they are dealing with. is it the mitt romney that was on the side of against the second amendment before he was for the second amendment, he was for standing up for roe versus wade before he was against roe versus wade. he's for obama care and now he is against it. i mean we'll wait until tomorrow and see which mitt romney we are really talking to tonight. >> not a great answer. could have been better delivered. it was kind of like when you were in speech class and you are like the person is like really nervous and can't get their words out. you like want to try to h help them. >> that was not a staff driven answer, i don't know what was. he was probably told that is should say andu sawd say and trying to remember it and sort of stopped and sort of remember and didn't remember. i remember many times doing presidential debate prep and you give a candidate an answer and he would get it completely flubbed. but the cowboy still has poetry reading to do. >> i worked for pat buchanan's presidential campaign. he is one of the best debaters in the country and he doesn't flub his answer. >> what did you think of last fight sphvment. >> that was a painful answer. this happens to rick perry. he sprints. this is a marathon. someone said get him a red bull on twitter. in the middle of the debate he seem to peter out and lose focus and look around. >> somebody said what romney should do next time is demand a three hour debate. >> a shot here. >> newt gingrich, i hope he doesn't go anywhere. here is one of his best lines from last night that i think speaks to exactly the problems in our country right now. >> in order for us t give you the help you should sign up for a business-led training program so that that 99 weeks becomes an investment in human capital giving us the best trained workforce in the world so you can get a job. but i believe it is fundamentally wrong to give people money for 99 weeks for doing nothing. that is why we had welfare reform. >> have you ever notice newt uses the word fundamentally a lot? >> he comes up with idea after idea after idea. >> the way he stands. he always looks like an attraction from the disney hall of presidents. he has the thing. the move. >> that is because it makes him look thinner. i practice that all the time. >> excuse me. >> where are we going? >> listen, greg, you said that you and i had the same -- what is that again? >> sound on tape. we had the same sound on tape but we had it for different reasons. what did you pick? >> the exchange between perry and santorum over immigration or perry's gree dream act. >> let's take a look at that. >> you say that we should not educate children who have come into our state for no other reason than they have been brought there by no fault of their own. i don't think you have a heart. >> governor perry, no one is suggesting up here that the students that are illegal in the country shouldn't be able to go to a college and university. the point is why are we subsidizing? not that they can't two. they can go. they just have to borrow money and find other sources to be able to go and why should they be given preferencial treatment. >> i love that look on perry's face when goes, oh, i just got hit, that was a good one. oh, i don't have anything else to say. >> that is what i do with bob sometimes. just go -- >> not sometimes. all the time. >> the thing is what perry said was wrong. i don't have a heart because i don't want to subsidize illegal aliens education. that is what santorum cleaned his clock and i think that might have been a lethal blow. blow. >> not only was a lethal blow. this is the first time i agree with hop along perry. >> the name calling. >> i think he is right. the kids do deserve to go to school. >> why do we have to pay for it? >> do we pay for you? >> what is that a lethal blow? >> in a republican primary and caucus situation that ain't the best thing to be carrying forward with you. in a general election that would go a long way with independents. this guy went from way right to muddling some place in the middle. i don't know if it was by design. but if it is, ill advisors. i'm not available. coming up, executives on capitol hill answering questions from lawmakers who are just wasting their time. we will give you the details. >> pick up the energy. >> on "the five". the other four will give you their thoughts ton. on it. i have no interest in it. come on back, though. ♪ ♪ let freedom ring. ♪ let the wild doves sing >> remember that? >> welcome back to "the five". on the heels of five ongoing investigations ranging from the fbi to the government accountability office, to the inspector general, solyndra eck eastboundtives today went back on their pledge to reveal what happened with the taxpayer loans and instead plead the fifth during a hearing on capitol hill. in my experience if the department of justice, the treasury inspector general, the department of energy inspector general, congress and the fbi are all looking into something, there is probably something going on. and skwrao kim i want to take n executivesndra eck today pleading the fifth and get your taken to. >> i want to ask mr. harrison if he thinks the american people who invested over half a billion dollars deserve to know what happened to that money. >> on the advice of my counsel i invoke the privilege afforded to me by the fifth amendment of the constitution and respectfully decline to answer any questions. >> knowing the financial conditions of the company in mid july were you aware of mr. harrison coming to congress and paying such a rosy picture of the company. >> i respectfully decline to answer any questions. >> is it not true, mr. harrison that the former ceo and other investors of solyndra met frequently with officials in the obama white house? >> on the advice of my counsel i invoke the privilege afforded to me by the fifth amendment. >> i don't understand what is self-imcrim nateing about a yes or no answer as to whether the american people deserve to know what happened to over a half a billion dollars of their money. >> i respectfully decline to answer any questions. >> i would like to ask the same question to mr. stoager. >> on the advice of counsel i invoke the privilege afforded by the fifth amendment. >> we don't feel so bad for them. but they can't even -- kimberly from a legal perspective i want to get your take on this. they can't even answer an innocuous question which is do you u believe the american people have a right to know what happened to $500 million of their money. when you plead the fifth, it is not an admission of guilt. >> they notified the committee they would be invoking their fifth amendment right. there already seems to be sufficient amount of evidence for the hearing to go forward. they want to protect themselves. the u.s. supreme court has never decide this issue directly but there is dicta in some of the cases. watkins in particular versus u.s. in 1957 they say that a congressional hearing is akin to a cri criminal investigatiod therefore is appropriate for someone to assert fifth amendment privilege in a personal nature but not on behalf of solyndra or organization or business entity so they can't refuse to turn over documents. this will enrage the american people because it is impeding the investigation. >> we will get the legal vocabulary. >> bob and i are pleading for a fifth. >> i want to get your take. one of the things you have said is that this is drumed u drumme republicans. take a look at what representative waxman said today on the today show. >> in july, the c.e.o. of solyndra said the company was doing very well. they were even going double their revenues and a month later they went into bankruptcy. i feel like i was misled. >> that is the point. it is not the campaign contribution. it is a question of whether or not the company misled the government is why there is an investigation. i don't think that the g.a.o. would do the house republican's bidding, do you? >> i'm not so sure of that. >> really? >> i'm sorry i took the fifth because i would have turned around and said can you explain why the taxpayers paid for the following five pork barrel projects for your district congressman, that went no where. i consider this justice thomas, a high tech lynching. they should have never brought them forward to do it and i don't blame them for doing it because they are out to get them. i would have taken the fifth, too. >> and if you were advising somebody under investigation by the fbi, the government accountability office, independent inspector general don't you think you have a bigger problem than a partisan one. >> this is not partisan but i believe that the story has debreached into the halls of congress as well. the question is really what did the administration foe. whaknow. what did solyndra submit to the administration. if they submitted information that showed that they were in the red then the administration was at fault. or they are at fault for just propping up an industry that they have long believed is worth while. something that robert reicht a notorious liberal in his book wrote. industrial politics. picking winners and losers and propping them up because they believe -- >> i want to get greg in here. i will run a conspiracy theory. >> i love conspiracy. >> that the fbi was sent in as a plot to o obscure the administration responsibility because they saw the train wreck combatanting. do you think that is possible? >> i don't think this is illegal but illustrates an important lesson to america. this company built a huge brand new facility on the most expensive area of the united states and filled it with conference room and furniture and state-of-the-art equipment and the reason why they can do that is because they could do that. whenever you are dealing with green issues you get the green light because no one will stand in your way because it is for the greater good. >> and spent $1.8 million on lobbying. >> could i say, greg, you believe in every conspiracy except you still believe in santa claus. >> you are santa claus. >> i know that. how many companies went under during the same time? thousands did. >> but they all didn't necessarily lie to the administration. >> how do you know that they lied? >> that is what the investigation i