0 >> he is active duty marine. >> and where's that at? >> currently stationed in florida. >> and your other son, where's he at? >> he's in college in north dakota. >> are they going to be home for the holidays? >> yes, they will. >> is your mother in the courtroom? >> yes. >> and your sister? >> no, she's not. >> but is your brother in the courtroom? >> yes, he is. >> besides your brother and your mother, your father is deceased? >> yes. >> do you have any other siblings? >> i have another sister and a brother. >> do you know what their ages are? >> my sister, my oldest sister is in her 50's. and my other brother is in his 50's, also. >> what do they do for a living? >> my sister works for a medical device company. my oldest brother works for a parking company and my other brother works for retail. >> going back to when you're a youngster, where did you go to elementary school? >> immaculate conception catholic school. >> where is that located? >> columbia heights, minnesota. >> and did you live in that neighborhood? >> yes, i did. >> while you were at elementary school, while you were going to that school, did you have a police officer visit your school? >> yes. >> and do you actually know his name today? >> yes, it's officer michael mcgee. >> where was he a police officer at? >> columbia heights police department. >> why was he at your school? >> he was doing bicycle safety for grade school kids. >> and you remembered his name, anything else that was significant about him that caused you to do something in your life? >> he was, on that occasion, he really influenced me as a youngster that the police are good people and i wanted to be something like that some day. >> and because of that, because of him being at your school, did you start out doing that? >> yes. >> and what was your first job or volunteer work as a -- some type of a law enforcement officer student, school cop? >> first thing i did was in junior high was a school patrol officer, if that counts. >> yes, it does count. what did the school patrol officer do back then? >> it was junior high so we helped the younger grade school aged children get across the street. >> and did you continue to do that throughout junior high? >> yes, sixth, seventh and eighth grade. >> and after getting into high school, what did you do? >> fridley police department came to my high school and had a booth set up for the fridley police explorers. >> did you join the explorers? >> yes, i did. >> why did you join the explorers? what is an explorer? >> it's part of the boy scouts of america. it's an area where you can have career enhancement or you can learn about different jobs like law enforcement or firefighting, things of that nature. >> and were you an explorer throughout your high school days? >> yes, i was. >> i can't remember if i asked what high school you went to. >> the high school in fridley. >> with respect to criminal justice and law enforcement, while you were in high school, besides being an explorer, did you do anything else? >> i had jobs. >> what was your job? >> my first job was at a gas station. >> what did you do there? >> clerk/cashier. >> did you continue that job in high school? >> yes, and into college. >> ok, so your next visit was college. >> yes. >> where did you go to college? >> st. mary's college in winona, minnesota. >> and that's about, what, 70 miles from here? 80? >> yeah, down towards la crosse. >> what was your major at st. mary's? >> criminal justice and sociology with an emphasis on elderly studies or geriatric sociology. i have an interest in serving the older community and understanding their needs and wants. >> did you graduate from st. mary's? >> yes, i did. >> was that a three-year program? >> four-year program, i finished it in 3 1/2 because i had an internship in the summer. >> where did you internship? >> columbia heights police department. >> columbia heights police department? >> yes. >> ok, what did you do at the columbia heights police department? >> i was assigned to an officer who was in their community oriented policing program. >> were you also -- did you also continue your explorer career while in college? >> i stopped being an explorer after my freshman year and then i role played at the annual conference. >> what does that mean? >> every year, the explorer program has an annual conference at breezy point resort and they needed role players. and they like to use students or people that were in law enforcement. >> so you graduated from st. mary's. >> yes. >> and you -- what did you do after that? >> after that, i would have gone to skills in the summer of 1994? >> ok. what do you mean by that? >> i went to skills. >> what does that mean? >> i went to the police certification program so i would get hired. >> where was that at? >> that was at the technical college. >> in alexandria, minnesota? >> correct. >> 120 miles? >> yeah. >> and did you stay there while you were being educated? >> yes. >> what kind of a program was that? how long was it? >> it was 10 or 12 weeks. >> is that where you obtained your skills to apply as a police officer? >> yes, it was a hands-on training. i had the college education, the book knowledge, and then i went there for my skills program or my hands-on part to get my license. >> after this program, did you go out and try your job in law enforcement? >> yes, i did. >> and were you successful at first? >> yes. >> did you have a job at anoka? >> i worked at the metro regional treatment center because i graduated in january, or i'm sorry, in december, i couldn't go to skills until the next summer, so i had to get -- i got a job. >> all right. but you worked skills, you were in alexandria, correct? >> yes. >> and the job you got was at anoka state hospital? >> yes. >> that was between your skills -- >> i got hired there in february and i worked for a calendar year but the anoka city police department would allow their students to or their employees, i'm sorry, to go to skills and still have a job on weekends or when they would get back before they got hired as a law enforcement officer. >> so at anoka state hospital, what did you do? >> i was a security officer. >> and anoka state hospital is for -- is basically a detox center now, is that right? >> now, it had a detox. it had a countywide detox, and a detox program. it also had drug and alcohol abuse rehabilitation and mental illness. >> and what did you do there? you were in security? >> yes. >> deal with the folks that are staying there, the residents? >> yes. >> were you successful in that? >> yes. >> after working there, where did you go next? >> i left there and got hired at the city of brooklyn center. >> and what year were you hired at the brooklyn center police department? >> 1995. >> and when were you sworn in? >> february 27th. >> of 1995? >> correct. >> who was at your swear-in? >> my mother and my father. >> so after you're sworn in, you started working as a brooklyn center police officer? >> yes. >> what year was that again? >> 1995. >> so that would be in my math, 26 years before you resigned? is that a fair statement? >> yes. >> when you worked as a police officer at brooklyn center throughout those 26 years, did you remain a patrol officer all during that time? >> i did. >> why was that? why didn't you attempt to go like the other officers we heard from? >> i liked my work. i enjoyed working with the community, i didn't want to be in an administrative role. >> did you also even though you were a patrol officer, you did take part in other programs, for example, the f.p.o. program, right? >> yes, i did. >> that's a field train sng>> yes, i was a field training officer for many years. >> how many years? >> i don't have an exact number, 10 to 15. >> and we've learned in this court -- in this case, what a field training officer does. but very briefly, what did you do? >> i would get probationers in different stages of their training, either in their first phase, second phase, third phase or final phase. usually, the primary phase or the first phase and the final phase were always with the same f.t.o.'s and then others would train the other two stages. >> why did you continue to do that for so many years? >> i felt that i had knowledge and mentorship that i could help young officers develop into somebody i would want to work with and my partners would want to work with. >> there are other programs that you volunteered for or joined while you were a police officer, is that correct? >> yes. >> and after you became a police officer, what was the first program that you joined or volunteered? >> i became an explorer advisor for explorer post. >> and what's an explorer post? is that the younger people? >> yes, the program through the boy scouts of america. >> and in that program, they teach them about policing, is that right? >> yes. >> and after that explorers program that you joined, what else did you do as a police officer? >> i was on the domestic abuse response team. i was also crisis negotiator. >> stop at the domestic abuse program. how long were you on that? >> approximately? >> 10, 12 years, maybe more. maybe less. >> and what did that program entail? >> we would respond -- so officers would go out on domestic abuse situations or domestic calls and if there was a victim of a crime or an arrest made or not an arrest made, we would follow up the next day with the victims to see that they were getting the things they needed like domestic advocates, order for protections that they had questions and helping them and checking in with them through the court process. >> did you enjoy doing that? >> yes. >> why? >> sometimes, there were great successes and sometimes there were very sad failures. >> is there another program that you were involved with was a hostage program? >> i was a crisis negotiator for the parent umbrella of the emergency operations unit. >> what did you do in that? >> i was a crisis negotiator. >> what does that mean? >> we would go out on barricaded subject or go out with a swat team, easiest way to describe it, on warrants. we would respond to calls where there may be people in danger. >> and was your job to try to negotiate with the subject and get him to submit to being arrested? >> yes, he or she. >> was that your main job? >> no, i was always the patrol officer. >> i mean, as far as a hostage negotiator, that's what you did? >> yes, i was a crisis negotiator. >> and what other programs were you in? >> i was on the law enforcement memorial association honor guard. >> what is that? >> it's -- so the parent is the minnesota law enforcement memorial association. they do a lot of work to help survivors and their families make their way through the process of getting benefits after their officer is killed in the line of duty. i was on the honor guard. >> what did you do being on the honor guard? >> when i started in 1998, i was on the colors team for approximately a year or two and then i went to the casket team. >> what's the color team? >> the color team carries flags. >> and the casket team? >> we would carry the casket or the urn of the fallen officer and fold their flag. >> and would you be in contact, also, with the victim or the deceased family? >> sometimes with the family, a lot of times with the chief of police because i would have to hand -- i would have to give the folded flag to the police chief. >> this was in minnesota? >> yes. >> these were police officers killed in the line of duty? >> yes. >> or other law enforcement officers? >> 99% of it killed in the line of duty or some retiree funerals. >> any other programs you were involved in? >> i did a lot of crime prevention work for our police department and other presentations. >> crime prevention presentation? >> yes. >> what were those? >> i was assigned an apartment complex in the city, and i would meet with management and we would do some programming for their residents as far as personal safety, locking your car doors and taking valuables out of your car, regular safety in an apartment complex. and then i would do some other presentations on robbery preventions for banks in the city. >> by the way, when you were doing the carrying caskets for that program, were you aware of officers that were killed in the line of duty by making a traffic stop? >> yes, shawn patrick from mendota heights. >> move to strike, your honor. >> objection is overruled. i'll let the answer stand. >> during your 26 years as a police officer, did you ever receive any complaints for abusing your power? >> no. >> did you ever receive any complaints from the public? >> no. >> in training, did you attend all the training sessions required by the brooklyn center police department while you were there? >> yes. >> with respect to gun training, you attended all those, too, right? >> yes, i did. >> did you pay attention? >> yes, i did. >> with respect to that, in your approximation, i'm not asking for exact numbers, but with respect to the training, what would you say the amount of training was for for the firearm, for the gun and the amount of training for the taser? what would be the percentages there? >> for the firearms, probably 80%. we spent a lot more time on firearms than we did on taser. >> and tasers didn't come into being until years after you were a law enforcement officer, right? >> yes, i believe trainers in this courtroom had said 2002 or 2003. >> and you started as a law enforcement officer what year? >> 1995. >> with respect to tasers, did i say lasers? with respect to tasers, there's been evidence in the case that you had a taser seven, is that correct? >> yes. >> the evidence in that was that the taser seven had -- was shaped like a gun, fair statement? >> yes. >> and the taser seven had a dark black or at least a dark handle and a dark top? do you remember that? >> objection. >> i'm trying -->> the objection is overruled. you may answer. >> yes. >> the taser that you received, was it approximately a month before april 11th that you received this taser? do you remember? >> in the courtroom, i was told i received it on march 26th. >> ok, and also, while we're there, with respect to these tasers in testing them, the rule that we read said should test the electronics every day. is that right? >> yes. >> there's testimony that you didn't test yours a couple of days, is that right? >> yes, that's what i was told. >> and do you agree with that? that you didn't test it? >> i don't recall if i would have or wouldn't have. >> was that an important feature for law enforcement officers with new taser? >> no. >> never used them since they had them? >> correct. >> and while we're there, did you ever use a taser, use it by actually shooting it, in all of your years, career as law enforcement officer? >> i would take my taser out on rare occasions, but i don't believe i ever deployed it. >> ok, when you take your taser out, it's to deescalate what's going on, is that a fair statement? >> sometimes, sometimes prepare for what's behind the door. >> all right. the taser that was switched from you, did that go to one of your partners? that taser? >> my old taser? >> yes. >> i believe they were just put in storage at the police department. >> and those tasers were all yellow, right? handle, top, and whole thing was yellow. >> yes, except for the battery pack, i believe that was black and there was some markings on the side. >> i'm going to show you these tasers. show you this taser. >> objection, your honor. can we have a side bar? >> yes. >> you are watching the kim potter trial right now. she is in the middle of testifying on her own behalf. she is the final witness that the defense has called in the case of manslaughter. she faces up to 25 years or 30 years in prison for first degree and second degree manslaughter respectively. after the prosecution's case rested, they called a total of about 25 witnesses to the stand over six days of testimony. three character witnesses were called to testify for what's known as spark of life testimony. the mother, father and girlfriend of the deceased, daunte wright who you are looking at right now, that was the judge presiding over kim potter's manslaughter trial for the shooting death of daunte wright at a traffic stop. the prosecution went through the training kim potter received, how she was not justified to use force in this incident and how she was negligent in her actions. quick recap of the defense's case to this point, one day of testimony up until today, they had called a total of six witnesses to the stand. and they then called today a police psychologist who testified essentially that it was a lapse of what's known as a brain error that she meant to do something, her brain thought she was doing something, and yet, in a split second error, she instead drew her taser while meaning to draw her weapon. prosecution calls that junk science. and they were going back and forth in that expert testimony as to the credibility of such and what happens when a police officer incorporates training with an emergency situation and here we are now back to the kim potter trial where she is in the middle of testifying on her own behalf. >> one before the seven being all yellow? >> yes. >> and was that an x-26 taser? >> i believe it was an x-26p. >> p? so with respect to the tasers, there's been evidence about signing some forms and warnings. do you remember signing those forms? >> in our annual training, we would be handed a form to sign and i would sign it. >> and do you remember the warnings on them at all? >> not from those days, no. >> and with respect to weapons confusion, was there ever any training, actual training, about weapons confusion as you remember it? >> no. >> did you even know what weapons confusion was? >> yes. >> wait until i finish the question. before april 11th? >> it would be mentioned in training but it wasn't something we physically trained on. >> by that, you mean what? >> there was no training on weapons confusion. you wouldn't be set in a darkroom and told to grab which weapon. >> so i'll go out to april 11th. 2021, a sunday. and you surely remember that day. is that correct? >> yes. >> and you're an f.t.o. that day for officer lucky? >> yes, i was. >> and that day, what time did you go on duty? >> 6:00 a.m. >> and was lucky on duty at that time, too? >> yeah. >> and about -- what did you do during the morning? if you remember, just drive around police work? >> we just did police work. we would have checked the squad car if we wouldn't have had calls right away. >> on a sunday. >> it was a sunday. >> so approximately around 2:00, did you pull up in back of -- not you, officer lucky was driving the car, right, the squad? >> yes. >> and you were the f.t.o. where were you seated in the car? >> in the passenger's seat. >> and tell the jury what you remember about first seeing the white buick on that day at approximately 2:00 p.m. and talk slowly. >> officer lucky and i were driving south and we were talking about pursuit policies, doing some regular f.t.o. training. and he observed a vehicle in the turn lane with a blinker on inappropriately. >> and was that the white buick? >> yes. >> and did you have a conversation with him about that? >> yes. >> and what was that conversation? >> we discussed a little bit of suspicious activity. he noticed a pine tree or air freshener hanging from the rearview mirror and the tags were expired. >> and did he want -- did you stop that vehicle? >> officer lucky wanted to stop the vehicle, yes. >> and let me ask you sort of a hypothetical. if he had been working alone that day on sunday afternoon at 2:00, would you have stopped the vehicle? >> objection, irrelevant. >> i can't even finish the question, your honor. that's not fair. >> the objection is overruled. you may answer. >> my question was if you weren't with a field training officer that day, and you were on patrol, would you have stopped that vehic