Wasnt us. Thanks for inviting us into your home. Thats it for special report. Fair, balanced, and unafraid. Greta goes on record now. This is a fox news alert. The house of representatives is voting right this minute on whether to hold former irs official lois lerner in contempt. Im greta van susteren. This is on the record. I have not done anything wrong. Lois lerner in hot water, and it is boiling over. Lois lerner and the Internal Revenue service systematically targeted american citizens. I urge my colleagues in the house to hold ms. Lerner in contempt. The critical vote just minutes away. Plus how much pornography would it take for an epa employee to lose their job . Porn, really . Perverts at the epa. You are returning an organization in which nobody can be fired. What knuckle head is your government letting this happen. Also, Monica Lewinsky burning the beret and burying the blue dress. Its nobodys business. Now all eyes on Hillary Clinton. And we werent supposed to be here. You made us belief. You kept us off the street. Basketballs most valuable player giving away his title. Youre the real mvp. And right now, the house of representatives is voting on whether to form former irs official lois lerner in contempt of congress. She repeatedly refused to answer questions about the irs targeting. Mike emanuel is live on capitol hill. Mike . Greta, good evening. A day full of drama on capitol hill as republicans have been arguing a year after lois lerner
came here to capitol hill, defended her actions at the irs, saying she had done nothing wrong in the targeting of conservative organizations. Theyre arguing that a year later, she should be held in contempt of congress. She has spoken to the Justice Department for hours on end, apparently all indications are, and theyre saying she should be speaking to the United States congress. Democrats have been careful not to defend lois lerners actions at the tax collection agency, but they say they dont believe shes waived her fifth amendment right. For that reason, we expect almost all or perhaps all democrats to vote against this contempt of Congress Resolution. So bottom line, we should know shortly whether shes going to be held in contempt. All indications are she will. Then the question is where does the irs investigation go from here . I have been speaking with leadership aides and officials here on capitol hill, and they say this is not the end of the irs investigation here in terms of the United States congress. They say youre going to be seeing a lot more oversight from them throughout the rest of this year, but this is a significant
chapter. It is not every day that somebody is held in contempt of congress. Greta. Mike, her lawyer wanted to address congress at one time. That was obviously declined. And now if she is, if the vote goes shes held in contempt of congress, were still waiting for the vote to end, it goes where . Over to the Justice Department, right . Thats right. My understanding is it would go to the United States attorney. It would also go to the Justice Department. They would ask that a grand jury be convened and then the question is what happens from there . The house is also going to vote on a resolution calling on eric holder to appoint an empty special counsel because they have little faith in the current investigation under way at the Justice Department. No indication that will go anywhere, but they want to be able to say to their constituents theyre still on the case and trying to make things happen and trying to get to the bottom of the irs targeting of conservative organizations. The most curious thing is whether anyone jumps ship. Whether the democrats vote the
republican way, the republicans vote the democrats way or this is straight down party lines. Unlikely anybody is going to jump ship, right . We understand the democratic leadership was telling the rank and file members they didnt want them to support the measure, so they were whipping against the measure. We expect the Republican Leadership was talking to their members. They seemed confident they would have and this is a fox news alert. The vote is now over. Lois lerner has been held in contempt of congress. The vote ending just seconds ago. Youre looking add live pictures of congress. Where it goes from here, is this contempt of Congress Resolution will go to the department of justice. Thats where eric holder, the attorney general of the United States, will have to make a decision whether or not he wants to refer it to a grand jury for further investigation or whether he wants to put it in his pocket and end it here. You can imagine this is not going to end the fight on capitol hill. Were also standing by to figure out what happens with whether or not there will be a special
counsel voted to investigate the irs. That, of course, is something republicans want very much. Something democrats have been resisting. Democrats say there have been plenty of investigations and in fact, theres already an investigation going on at the Justice Department. But as you can imagine, this is going pretty much along party lines. Republicans dominate the house of representatives, so they have dominated this vote tonight, but the big news tonight. Lois lerner, former official of the irs who one year ago came before congress, made a statement, then took the fifth amendment, has now been held in contempt of congress. And its notable that the criminal defense lawyers here in washington are giving her lawyer, bill taylor, a hard time because many people thought he should have counseled her not to say a single word or she would not be in hot water now. The minute she started talking, then, of course, waived her fifth amendment right on the issues. Thats why shes in hot water tonight. A lawyer, former official at the irs who retired last fall, is now held in contempt of court. And joining us, our Political Panel. Rick klein, Fortune Magazine editor nina easton, and byron york. Byron, big news tonight. Big news. You hit it right at the end. Listening to the debate in the last hour, its all come down to her testimony, the first hearing she appeared at was may 22nd, 2013. The irs scandal is heating up. She appears, and instead of saying im not going to say anything. Im citing my fifth amendment right against selfincrimination, she reads a rather lengthy statement. She makes factual statements, she defends herself. And only then when the questioning is supposed to start, she says, im asserting my fifth amendment right not to testify. What is particularly dopey about that from my legal background is she could have just taken the fifth, gone outside and stood on the Capitol Steps and said the same thing,
but her lawyer walked her right into that. I think this has political meaning, this vote today. Im not sure it has legal meaning in terms of her paying a fine or going tojail. Heres the thing, this whole process is going as we just learned, into the Justice Department. Which is run by an official who was held in contempt by congress. Okay . Congress so hes clecking contempt. Congress has issued these contempt citations against five officials in history. Dating back to the reagan administration. Two were Top White House officials during the bush administration. Two were under the reagan administration. One went to jail. Rita lavelle, for six months. But you know, the white house officials under bush didnt go. Eric holder, the top law enforcer in the country, is still not only not in jail, but actually sitting at the Justice Department. So if you really think this is going to, you know, the wheels are going to start churning on this and lois lerner is going to
be indicted and end up in jail, i dont see that happening. Does this mean anything . Holder gets to decide whether it means anything. Lawyers are split on the legal meaning of that statement. I think youre right. It seems silly to put your client in that kind of jeopardy. When theres a gray area, you err on the area of protecting your client. You dont roll the dice. It means something as a precedent for the house. Youre in big trouble if you do Something Like this. There is this argument about whether she democrats argue that you cannot waive your fifth amendment right simply by declaring your own innocence, but also, remember a couple months ago, they had this hearing, and darrell issa cut off the ranking democrat, Elijah Cummings said forget it, cut his mike, this is over. They claim he botched the contempt process by doing that. This has as mch to do with the fight going on between republicans and democrats in the house in the committee than it does with what lois lerner did. What happens . Nothing . Nothing. I think the investigation continues. I would be surprised if this creates a real legal jeopardy for lois lerner. I dont think eric holder is likely to act on this. This is clearly political maneuvering. You can agree or disagree about the substance of the irs scandal, but this is beyond that. Eric holder called the fast and furious investigation, which led to his contempt, politically motivated muck. You know, and i think he considered this the same thing. Hes not going to move. You know, to go back to the legal thing, Alan Dershowitz said this was terrible lawyering. That she did waive her fifth amendment right, but i think, to me, the whole thing is why in the world did bill taylor even walk her near this problem. This is a problem that is so unnecessary for her, and shes a lawyer. Right. Thats how you get in trouble in these things, process, things like that. So now, tomorrow we wake up and what does the house do . Well, theres a lot to fight
over. If you listen at the end of this debate, jim jordan, the republican member of the committee, came out and said, well, we just did our 40th interview and it led us to new information about contacts between the irs and the Justice Department. If you listen to republicans, they believe theres still a lot to do beyond lois lerner in the irs. They served subpoenas on the irs. Theyre still trying to get information. I have never seen it, its the strangest thing. They serve a subpoena and its like an invitation, not an order. I think theres been complaints throwing throughout the process over that. This is a year deep. Right now, its just as much about keeping it alive in the headlines. More information coming forward, finding something to connect the dots. Its looking very likely that this is just going to be a political issue for the fall. Going to certainly motivate the base. It also could change if republicans win control of the senate. Then the administration would be defying two branches of Congress Instead of just one. We talk about the political ramifications, but you know, so Many Americans sitting at home tonight, theyre terrified of the irs, and they want answers. And they see this as sort of the Political Drama playing out here, and we show the vote on tv andeal, but most americans, what in the world is the irs doing . The president called it an outrage originally. Now its become partisan phony. Now its become a partisan right, but it was an outrage, then it was phony. And then it was partisan. Thats right, and now its partisan. But i agree with rick. I think this is going to be politically the effect of this is going to, you know, really put the scandal back on the front pages. Its going to help generate the base in 2014 and be good for republicaneri republicans. Its a benefit for democrats if they can characterize this as completely partisan like theyll try to do in the benghazi investigation as well. Thats something thats new here. It feels like the 90s in a lot of ways. Back to the big scandals and this scandal atmosphere. Benghazi going on. Even monica back. Theres an effort to say, look, were really going to dial up the pressure, make it bigger than it has been in the past, and its contributing to an overall atmosphere, a lot of disconnect surrounding it, feeling like youre not getting answers, but thats the feel. All right. And a fox news lurt. Seconds ago, passing a resolution to ask the Justice Department to appoint a special counsel to probe the irs. Mike, this is vote number two. Well, thats right, greta. We just got the numbers. 250168. So all republicans voted in favor in calling for a special independent counsel to investigate the irs targeting of conservative groups and 26 democrats joined with republicans in this case to support this measure. With the lois lerner contempt of congress measure, only six democrats came over to support the effort. In this case, 26 democrats
coming across. Clearly either hearing from their constituents that they want more answers about the irs scandal or perhaps recognizing at this point, they shouldnt put all their eggs in the Justice Department basket, so this will be sent on, and well see what eric holder decides to do. He may tell the house to go fly a kite, but the house is keeping up its pressure on holder and all those involved with the irs case to try to get some answers. Thank you, mike. 26 democrats. Thats amazing. Isnt it . The pressure theyre feeling on this. Theyre hearing it from a lot of constituents. I imagine well see the roll call. A lot in red districts. They want to say, yeah, they were there fighting alongside republicans when it was about accountability. And six democrats voted for contempt in the house. That passes as bipartisanship. The contempt vote came after a heating debate on the house floor. I urge my colleagues in the house to hold ms. Lerner in
contempt. I have not done anything wrong. Welcome to witch hunt week here in the United States house of representatives. We wouldnt be here today if ms. Lerner had not conducted her own partisan witch hunt. Lois lerner and the Internal Revenue service systematically targeted american citizens. This is a circus. This has become a partisan joke. The fifth amendment is protection, it is a shield. Lois lerner used it as a sword. Ms. Lerner needs to be held in contempt. Not since mccarthy has this been tried. We are better than that. A lot of talking for someone woo wants to remain silent. When you trample on her rights, you have risked every americans rights. Maybe if i turn my head sideways, maybe she would have talked then, but she did talk. She said a lot of things. And then decided, oops, dont want to talk anymore. Representative jim jordan joins us. Good evening, sir. Good evening, greta. Well, on the vote for lois lerner, six democrats joined the republicans. But tell me, is this vote, is it the piece of the vote or just show . Whats going to happen . Its going to go to a judge eventually. Remember, the Justice Department appealed some of the others, like holder, when we held attorney holder in contempt, they appealed it. The legal argument was executive privilege. I dont think theyre going to put forward that argument because i dont think they want to admit the president talked in any way with lerner. We think it gets to the judge. The judge will say, go talk to congress and answer the questions. We think theres a strong likelihood there. Now let me ask you this question, though. In order to get to the judge, dont you have to essentially hand it to the attorney general of the United States and hes the one who has to present it to the grand jury or the judge . You have to go through the attorney general of the United States. You dont just bypass him,
right . No, no, theres a u. S. Attorney, the statute says shall take it to a grand jury. So its a shall statement, not a may. The u. S. Attorney should take it to a grand jury. Theres no timeframe. We would like it to happen sooner rather than later. The grand jury is going to say yes, the house did hold you in contempt. Lets get it to a judge. Then well see what kind of legal theory the Justice Department comes up with. I used the phrase, the attorney general. Youre right about the u. S. Attorney, but the u. S. Attorney works for the attorney general of the United States. Is there no discretion for the prosecutor of the u. S. Attorney to decline to prosecutor . Are you saying the language is absolutely shall, and he has absolutely no option as to go to a grand jury . Thats my understanding. Shall language, every time its happened when its not someone in the Justice Department like holder, when they have not brought forth the legal theory that its executive theory. Every other time its happened, it went to the grand jury, then went to the judge, and the judge said, yes, youre in contempt, answer questions or go to jail. When theres a threat of jail, people typically see the light and they come answer the questions. Thats what we hope happens here. Thats been the history. 26 democrats with the irs special council. Surprising they got 26 democrats . That is huge, the fact that 26 democrats, a bipartisan majority thinks and know that the investigation currently going on in the department of justice is a joke. When you leak to the wall street journal no one is going to be prosecutored, when the president says theres no corruption, not even a smidgen, and when Barbara Boxer gave a max out to the president s Campaign Leading the investigation, everyone knows this is a joke. Now to have 26 democrats come alongside with us and vote for a special council, this is huge, huge news that that Many Democrats see that, look, we have to have a real investigation, something that is impartial, something thats going to actually get to the truth. Than