You know who thomas is he wrote columns for decades and has written fantastic books. He has been a leader in the Liberty Movement for at least half a century. He is been warning the American People of tierney, what tierney looks like, creeping tierney, aggressive charity. From my perspective was sitting in the middle of it. He has got this fantastic new book out, Social Justice fallacies you can get it at amazon. Com or any major bookstore. It is a fantastic book. And i dont to welcome you. And let me say this to you, i have been following you since i was a little kid. Not to date both of us. You had an enormous impact on my life. In fact you have had an enormous impact on the way i do this program. I remember you on the bill buckley firing line you were a Killer Debater absolutely unbelievable. All of that said, let me start this way. Social justice fallacies, you start out as a marxist print as many young people do in colleges and universities. He did not take long for you to realize, Wait A Minute this is not alway all its cooked up to. Was the Social Justice stuff in this Inequality Stuff these ambiguities did that have an impact on you being a marxist and then realizing Wait A Minute this is all bs . Yes it did. And theres a very simple explanation. At the time i became a marxist after several years of study and observing things going on. And fax it carried a lot of weight with me. Went backs and ke back kept goie wrong way i realized this was not going to do it claimed it was going to do. One of the big problems about Social Justice is what they say sounds so good its only after you study history you find out just how bad, how horribly it turned out. Mark these phrases are very nebulous Social Justice. What does that mean . Basically if you agree with the marxists and leftists you support Social Justice but if you support individuality, capitalism and Property Rights your antiSocial Justice . What does all this mean . That is how they look at it. They seem to assume a world if things do not turn out the same for everybody that mean somebody has done somebody wrong. That is an incredible assumption that human beings have such enormous control over their own faith individually or collectively. I think back over my life and im sure other people could do e same in their lives there are times the particular person appeared on the scene and change the whole trajectory of my life. It has happened more than once a part of sure it happened in the lives of many other people. There is nobody out there who has all the incredible amount of knowledge required to take over making other peoples decisions for them. Mark do you find these radicals these autocrats this turn in Social Justice. They mean centralized government redistribution of wealth, a permanent government that undermines Representative Government . Isnt this the nomenclature for that . It is. And if you realize what enormously high opinions many of the intellectual elites have of themselves, you can see what it boils down to his very intellectual people like themselves preempting the decisions of other people in every aspect of their lives. One of the things that astonishes me now is we are having this big debate about sexs education in the schools. To me the question is what qualifies the people who are pushing this stuff to take over the rules of parents . What is also very troubling is this all came out during the covid pandemic when the students were studying at home and the parents got to see what was being taught in the schools. Now it so happens that 30 years ago i wrote a book called insight american education. In which all of this was laid out just exactly as it is happening now. The appearance this is responding to what the students want, i cannot imagine how many young people in the Elementary Schools especially, are saying they are a boy want to be a boy or they are a boy want to be a girl. I cannot think of anyone in my whole lifetime who was saying things like that. If you follow the institutional way these things are done, there are groups outside the School System inside the School System who want to do this. And who know the parents dont want them to do it and they do it anyway and they pretend they are responding to what the students want. They are not too. Once i was at a meeting of educators and while i was there there was a man going around the country selling a particular brainwashing program. He showed me his schedule. He was scheduled, my gosh every two or three days a four months to be pushing the stuff on all the schools. He mistook me as if i was a School Official he was regaling be with all of this. Its clear this is not a spontaneous thing. It is organized and the tactics used are the tactics that were developed for brainwashing in communist countries. Mark the book is Social Justice fallacies by doctor thomas sowell. Critical race theory the 1619 project, these are anti knowledge, arent they . They are Propaganda Devices for the hard left that are being pushed in our classrooms. Pushed in our society and so forth. These attacks on the american system do they promote equality . Do they promote unity . Do they promote the Melting Pot Society are they intended to destroy this culture . What clearly is the latter. It is not just propaganda. It is propaganda that overtly prevents other views from being heard. If they were propagandizing in the students were allowed to learn other things as wellin different ways of looking at life that is one thing. For example there are people who have taught academic courses on racial and ethnic issues at harvard and other places to just simply stop teaching their courses. If they were saying anything different from what the propaganda or saying you have violence on campus and so on. The University Administrators would not protect their classrooms. One of the great scholars in this area simply stop teaching his course because you had ignorance silencing knowledge. Mark ignorance silencing knowledge. You write an entire section on knowledge for you break it down into different subsections. Let me ask you this. I dont if you watch news these debut talk about whats going on in the classroom. Are we really a nation thats about knowledge . Or are we a nation that is about substituting the hard left for real words substituting the Thought Process of people who really seek to find Quote Unquote the truth with ideology . What have we become . When i watch the news all here is propaganda Surface Level bs. Yes that is the norm unfortunately in academic institutions. Even the most prestigious the entire ivy league is in that same mode. It scares me because you have people like say however mcdonald or Charles Murray will come onto a campus they do so a with physical risk to themselves. And again the authorities do nothing. Of course i dont normally go to those things anyway. But i have been to some of them where they had the police all around, the doors are locked and people outside banging on the windows and doors just to disrupt the talk thats going on inside. Iron burbach in 1969, this is been going on a long time. It is so sad it has taken us so long to become aware of it. 1969 students at harvard went into the administration building. They seized it, one to the personal records were passing out all of the personal information for faculty and other things to the media and so on. The president of harvard called in the police. The harvard faculty gave a vote of noconfidence to the no confe president and he resigned. I think after that other president s decided the way to get along is have preemptive surrender. That is been developed into an art. Mark you have been studying our country for a very long time. The history, economics, philosophy, you have covered a whole horizon. Forty years ago, 50 years ago today was the country in a better position today than it was half a century to go . Or is it in a worse position . Much worse, much worse. The silencing of the other side has become much more prominence. The really dangerous not in the silly ideas being promoted, it is in the fact no one else is allowed to reply to them without some danger to themselves. Mark do you see this country a growing police state . I dont mean a police state and these aggressive facts marxist regimes but slowly but surely like youre talking about controlling the language which controls thought and activity. This massive censorship that judges have now ruled on this administration. You can see the politicization of the Department Of Justice and so forth. Let me put it to you this way more fine points, are we a free country today . I remember of me sees what Sake Americans talk like marxist. Are we a free country today . Or are we on a country on the precipice of losing our freedom . I think the latter. Its hard for me too see how were going to come out of this. Especially when people are so willing to increase the powers of government. They dont seem to understand that it does not matter for what purpose you gave them that power which may have been good purposes. Once they have that power they can use it for whatever they want. The Federal Reserve system was set up for example to prevent Runaway Inflation or runaway deflation or Bank Failures. The intellectuals were one 100 behind that. But the cold fact is theres been Mthere Isbeen more deflatig the Great Depression more inflation for decades on end and more Bank Failures than ever occurred prior to the setting up of the Federal Reserve system. But the Federal Reserve system for example cant force people to do things they dont want to do just because they have the power to hold up with the decisions are. So the pf the power created for one purpose is used for some different purpose. When fdr took the United States off Gold Standard he used a law passed during the First World War ii prevent trading with enemy nations. But once the power was there you could use it for anything you wanted too. The six episode true. Doctor thomas sowell, when we return i went to get into the issue of race. I feel like we never get away from it. I went to get into it because it seems to me the more colorblind people want to be, the more the elites in the ruling class insist that we not be. We will be right back. Mass general brigham when you need some of the brightest minds in medicine. This is a leading Healthcare System with five nationally ranked hospitals, including two worldrenowned academic medical centers. 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We make money from ads, but they dont follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. Having diabetes isnt easy, but i found splenda Diabetes Care shakes which help me manage my blood sugar and give me the energy at breakfast to take on whatever the day brings. Theyre smooth and creamy have 16 grams of protein and unlike others, splenda shakes have zero sugar theyre a perfect snack between meals. Or lunch on the go. Splenda shakes are made by the 1 doctorrecommended sweetener brand. Splenda Diabetes Care shakes find them in the pharmacy aisle today. Mark welcome back america we are here with dr. Thomas sowell. The book is Social Justice fallacies. We go to amazon. Com and grab a copy. In eighany major Bookstore Shoue A Copy is very readable and worth Reading Project Leak now during these times. When we talk about equality immediately race comes to mind. Its always about race. Racial discrimination. About the founding of the nation. White dominant society so forth and so on. You made the case youve made this case throughout your life and its very poignant in your book. Its a way to minute and stuff the only thing that has an impact. First about what other things have an impact . Probably an infinite list of things. And secondly why do they only focus on race on the left . I guess thats proven to be a politically popular thing to do. But in point of fact one of the things thats mentioned in the book is a study done by that New York Times of all people some years ago. They tried to show the 10 poorest counties in the United States. They mentioned which ones they were and so on. And it turns out six of the 10 counties had a population that was 90 one 100 white. That when the New York Times he did not mention the race of the people at once he told me the counties and it looked it up. In fact i fold the average income in those six counties over a span of 50 years. In all of those 50 years all six of those counties had at Median Income lower than the Median Income of black americans. So the people in those counties have face zero racism because they were white ink distinguishable. They did not have a legacy of slavery. And yet there they were. You have to ask then, clearly there must be other things that cause poverty. We cannot just assume people of a given race have more poverty than some other people that race must be the reason. This has become an automatic kind of thing. I think most people would be quite surprised. One of the things that happens is that behavior matters. You see that in so many different ways. For example, i think most people would be surprised to learn despite the fact blacks as a whole have a higher poverty rates thratethan whites as a wh. White married couple families have for more than a quarter of a century every single year had a poverty rates under 10 . And in most of those years the National Poverty rate was not as low as 10 . And you say this is due to institutional racism. On that case does it means that races make an exception for blacks who are married . Do they care whether blacks are married . None of these explanation stands up to the slightest empirical study. Mark lets talk about this when it comes to minorities generally. An Aging Population of this country achieves a lot intellectually, education wise. They are discriminated against these Ivy League Colleges we had a harvard we had a Supreme Court decision and so forth their weight jews were by harvard, yale, princeton and so forth. So people who push the race issue, is it that they really care about black people or asian people or jewish people or is it just a nether wedge issue to try to destroy the culture and destroy the society . There are some people who are both. Some really believe it and i for sorry for them. But there are some who really dont care. If it gets them elected, that is what matters. This is one of the tragedies whf trying to politicize race. There are so many fallacies its hard to know which one to take up. But for example the great narrative blacks rose from poverty. Got into professional occupations as a result of the 1960 social welfare programs. And this is the big benefit. One of the problem with this way of looking at things is everything depends upon when you pick as the start of this trend. If you go back to 1948 that is 20 years before these wonderful things supposed to have happened in the 1960s and you discover the degree to which blacks were in poverty declined from 80 in 1940 to 47 in 1960. It went down by 48 poin 40 poinn those 20 years. Now you look at the 20 years following 1960. They went down 18 points. And so the trend did not begin in the 1960s. The trend was there before them the trend did not even accelerate after 1960. Many people think it would all be give the Civil Rights Act of 1964. That was a fine act to get rid of the Segregation Laws in the south. But the cold fact is the p