0 never propose to ever balance the budget and we think that is irresponsible. >> chris: talk about the reasons you don't have to make changes to budget it in ten years. you mention the tax increases that came from raising rates in the fiscal cliff debate and include $716 billion in medicare cuts through obama care that you opposed in the last campaign. question, is it fair to say that at least those parts of the president's policies make it easier to balance the budget? >> it is fair to say that. what we also say is end the raid of med did he care from obama care. all that money that was taken from medicare was to pay for obama care. we say we get rid of obama care and end the raid and apply the savings to medicare to make it more solvent and extend the medicare trust fund. the fiscal cliff is current law and that is not going to change and we propose progrowth tax reform and we think with the current revenue lien w line wed have a system to bring all rates down. good for economic growth and creation and taxpayers by having less loopholes. stop picking winners and losers. those things are still achievable and we achieve that in the budget and do reflect the realities that you just mentioned. >> chris: in the last budget you cut spending $5 trillion over ten years. how much do you cut spending in the new budget? >> basically the same. $5 trillion. instead of growing spending at 4.9% a year which is the average under the current path we are on we grow spending at 3.4% each year over the next decade and gets us on the path to balance and the result is about a $5 trillion spending cuts. >> chris: cuts in the rate of growth not actual absolute cuts. >> we will grow spending on average 3.4% a year instead of growing it on average 4.9% a year which is the path we are on which takes us away from ever balancing the budget which produces a debt crisis. that is the problem. the president has us on a path toward a debt crisis that hurts everybody. that brings us to a recession. gives us a european kind of experience we want to avoid. we want people going back to work. higher wages. more jobs. a growing economy. we get that by balancing the budget. >> chris: there are two sides to the argument. the president would say the spending cuts and sequester and cuts that you going to propose in the short-term could actually hurt this kind of slightly improving recovery and throw us back into a recession. let me ask you about a couple of the specific cuts you made last year and tell me if they are not in the new budget. i assume that they are. you cut medicaid by $770 billion over the next ten years. cut 134 billion florida food stamps. $166 billion from education, training and social services. democrats say that that makes you the party of austerity that this is going to hurt people who depend on the programs and two, they say that rather than spur growth it is going to hurt growth. >> well, we have 49 different job training programs spread across nine different government agencies. lots of bureaucracies. they don't work. we propose to consolidate the programs in a flexible grants that go back to the states to actually get people into jobs and into training so they can get back to work. so we get rid of the bureaucracy in washington and send money back to the states so people can get the skills they need to get the jobs they want. on food stamps we say you have to qualify for the program to get the food stamp benefit. with our reforms food stamps would have grown by 260% instead of 270 about percent that they did grow. with respect to medicaid we think the obama expansion is reckless. we are pushing 20 million people into a program failing. more and more doctors and hospitals don't take the program. reform medicaid by giving states the ability to customize the medicaid program to meet the unique needs of their medicaid populations. we think it will make the programs better. >> chris: you say by turning medicaid into a block grant and giving it to the states you can cut $770 billion out of the program over the next ten years and it will have no impact on legitimate recipients? >> these are increases that have not come yet. by repealing obama care and medicaid expansions which haven't occurred yet we are basically preventing an explosion of a program that is already failing. we are saying don't grow this program through obama care because it doesn't work. prevent that growth from going because it is not going to work. it is going to hurt people trying to help. it will hurt hospitals and states and give the states the tools that they are asking for. indiana is a perfect example. they have a fantastic medicaid program that mitch daniels created in indiana that is popular and successful and working well but obama care prevents it from going forward. we want to give states like, indiana, states like wisconsin the tools they need to make the benefits work tor for their populations and don't want to push more people into a failing program and by not pushing people into the failing program we do save these kinds of dollars. >> chris: i want to pick up on this because i must say i didn't understand this. are you saying as part of your budget you assume the repeal of obama care? >> yes. >> chris: well, that is not going to happen. >> well, we believe it should. that is the point. but this is what budgeting is all about, chris. it is about making tough choices to fix our country's problems. we believe that obama care is a program that will not work. we believe obama care will actually lead to hospitals and doctors and healthcare providers turning people away. it is a program that basically puts medicare under the control of 15 people on a board that will determine what kind of benefits people get. that is a rationing board, however, you slice it. we don't think healthcare is going to be improved in this country. we think it will look very ugly over the next couple of years and that is why we will propose replacing obama care with patient centered healthcare and a better healthcare system for everybody. for the poor. for people in the states. for medicare so we can actually have affordable health insurance for everybody including people with preexisting conditions without costly government takeover which is what obama care represents. our budget does promote repealing obama care and replacing it with a better system. onchris: i want to pick up on the medicare. starting with people who are now you 54 and reportedly wanted to raise it to 56 but then there was political pushback, starting with people who are now 54 you would start to give them when they become of age a government subsidy, a voucher, premium support to help them pay for healthcare costs. i don't have to tell you this was a big issue in the campaign between romney/ryan versus obama/biden. they think they won and that is one of the reasons they won. there are lot of independent studies that say if you put this into effect the net effect will be he that seniors will end up having to pay more of the share of their healthcare costs. >> first of all, it is not a vouch ever. premium support. a voucher you go to the mailbox and get a check and go buy something. put medicare into a system that works like the one i have as federal employees. a list of coverage options including medicare for the future healthcare needs. medicare subsidizes your plan based on who you are. total subsidy for the poor and the sick. less for wealthy seniors. harnessing the power of choice and competition where a senior gets to choose the benefit that is comprehensive is the best way to save medicare for future generations. guarantees it does not change for people in or near retirement and guarantees us near the age of 55 we have a medicare program we we retire. the problem is medicare is going broke. obama care does such damage it will damage the program for current seniors. we don't want that to happen and we are proposing the reforms to save and strengthen the medicare program not just for my mom but for our generation as well. we won the senior vote. i did colorado dozens of medicare town hall neatings mckinley states like, florida, explaining these are the best reforms to save and strengthen the medicare program. it has bipartisan support. an idea that came from democrats in the first place and we think it is the best way to go because the alternative here of having a choice based system where you get to choose the plan that meets your need is 15 bureaucrats making the decisions in washington which are the new obama care board which we repeal in the budget. >> chris: this brings us to the lunar gravity than you had on thursday with president obama at the white house and i want to explore whether there is the basis for a compromise here. i got to say i don't hear it so far. let me start this way. from your view after having lunch with the president do you think that his so called charm offensive is sen sear, tha sins really look for compromises that still seems like a big divide or por more political tr to appear to be reaching out? >> i think the answer to the question will be clear in the way he conducts himself the next several months. i never really had a conversation with him on these issues before. i'm excited that we had this conversation. we had a very frank exchange. we come from different perspectives. i ran against him in the last election. so we exchanged very different frank candid views of one another that were very different but at least we had this conversation and i think the answer to your question will be determined by how he conducts himself in the coming weeks and months. will he resume the campaign mode? will he resume attacking republicans and impugning our motives? will he resume what is long believed to be a plan to win the 2014 elections or will he sincerely change in trying to find common ground and try and work with republicans to get something done? that is what we hope happens. but we want to get a down payment on the debt crisis. >> chris: let me pick up on that. you talk about coming from different perspectives. one of the last times you and the president were together was almost exactly two years ago in the last -- when the budget that year had come out and with you in the audience the president took apart the proposed spending cuts you wanted to make. take a look. >> these are the kinds of cuts that tell us we can't afford the america that i believe in and i think you believe in. i believe it paints a vision of our future that is deeply pessimistic. >> chris: the vision he is talking about is the ryan budget. did that come up at the lunch congressman? >> it did but that is basically what i was saying. if you you impugn people's motives and say these drayian cuts which we are increasing spending by average 3.4% a career that does no good to get to common ground and makes it impossible for parties to come together to bridge the gaps. if that kind of rhetorics resumes we will know this was for show and it it wasn't sincere. i hope this is sincere. we had a very good frank exchange but the proof will be in the coming weeks as to whether or not it is a sincere outreach to find common ground? i think there are things that we can do that don't offend either party's philosophy that doesn't require someone to is surrender their principles to make a good down payment on getting the debt and deficit under control. that is what i would like to achieve. >> chris: let me pick up with you on thattio that, congressm. there are basic disagreements that remain. the president would like to raise $600 billion at least in added revenue by clearing out so many of the deductions and loopholes for upper income people. you want not nips and cuts but structural reform tone titlements. did you get a sense, first of all, are you willing to give up one to get the other and did you get a sense he was? >> we already had a tax increase. we think it is unfair to ask hard working taxpayers to pay more so washington can spend more. we think we he should balance the budget. >> chris: but you know that is what he wants. >> we do have a difference of opinion on that. the other problem is this by continuing to raise taxes to fuel more spending you will never get tax reform which is critical for economic growth and job creation. yes, we have an impasse right now which is the president wants to continue raising taxes not for deficit reduction but to fuel more spending and we see tax reform as an incredibly important goal and policy to getting progrowth economics and getting businesses growing again and hiring people. tax reform to us is an economic growth generating exercise. tax reform for the president so far seems to be a spend ising growth exercise. a revenue generating exercise >> chris: bottom line what do you. >> we don't want to raise taxes because we just did raise taxes chris bottom line what do you think of the chances of a big deal this year to try to get the deficit under control? >> i think it will be determined by the temprament and the posture that the president and all of us take over the next few weeks. we have spending problem and i like to see we can find common ground. will the president take the premium survivors yo survivorsu port program? my guess is he won't. are there things you you can do short of that that gets you closes to balancing the budget and delays the debt crisis from hitting this country? yes, i think there are. i do believe there is a consensus for tax reform. a lot of moderate crate modem r of closing loopholes. stop picking winners and losers in washington. you don't lose revenue for the federal government and make it easier for small businesses to create jobs and hire more workers. we think there is a consensus for that. >> chris: don't mean to interrupt. a couple more political questions to ask you and very little time. did you come away from your experience as the vice presidential candidate in 2012 thinking that the prospect of running for president for two years would be appalling or exciting? >> that is a good question. actually i enjoyed the experience. it made it more realistic in my mind. it is something that i much better understand and jen and i were talking about this just the other day. we actually enjoyed it. we got to meet hundreds of thousands of people who care so much about their country and learned a lot just about the greatness of this country and how hard working people want to get ahead and make a difference. actually i found it a very pleasant exercise to be candid with you. >> chris: and what is more attractive to you as sit here today, running for president or staying in the house doing the important work you do there and maybe some day becoming speaker? >> i have no plans to be in house elect leadership. if i wanted to be in elected leadership like speaker i would have run for these jobs years ago, i believe the better place is in policy leadership. with respect to running for are president i honestly think that we have a problem right now you. a budget mess and a debt crisis coming. i represent the first district of wisconsin. that to me is the first important thing and i shouldn't be clouding my judgment today by thinking about some political thing four years from now. i should not be clouding my judgment by thinking how does this position me to run for president. do what you think is right. how can i help wisconsin and close the budget gap and then when we are through that moment i will give serious thought to these other things but not until then. >> chris: congressman ryan thank you very much for joining us today. we will be tracking whether this time there really is a grand bargain. thanks, sir. >> thanks, chris. >> chris: up next, former governor you jeb bush talks about immigration reform and his