That big White Building surrounded by Counter Terrorist experts. There are 1,500 police surrounding the bad guys. It is 6 00 in new york city. It is noon in france. You are watching continuing live coverage on fox friends. Two brothers suspected of carrying out the deadly terror attacks in paris appear to have taken a hostage and right now they are surrounded. A massive operation to capture them is currently underway. Heres what we know so far. At least one sniper is now in a position across the street from the c. T. D. Printing company where the suspects are holed up. This is in a small town to the north and to the east of paris. Those suspects holding a hostage believed to be a woman. French officials have been in contact with the two brothers. The two brothers say they want to die as marytrs. As elisabeth was telling you, the entire area is surrounded by hundreds of heavily armed officers. Overall there is about 90,000 French Military and police on this operation for the last three days. Locals have been told to stay inside their homes obviously and all nearby schools have been locked down for awhile the airports were locked down. But now we do get some reports that youre allowed to fly. Charles de gaulle airport is seven miles away from this particular Printing Company. Within the last halfhour the two closed runways have been opened up. Meanwhile were live in paris with the breaking details. Greg, pick up the story. Last night when we went to bed, we believed the kouachi brothers were in the forest. They ditched the car or they had driven a car into the forest. There were Police Helicopters with night vision goggles overhead. What happened . Yes, a lot of dramatic things happened. Again, they had hijacked one car. It was seen yesterday morning at a gas station when they robbed the place of gas and food, drove the car off to the enl of that forest and then left the car and entered the forest on foot. Thats when, as you noted, we were tracking a massive manhunt through a big rural area, a forest the size of paris. It turns out what probably happened is early this morning they went to a secondary road, not a highway, a secondary road running alongside that forest. Were about 45 miles outside of paris. They stopped and hijacked a car, small compact car, put the passenger out of the car. We know that because that individual, a woman then called the police and said your two main suspect theyre in my car right
now. And what was alarming, this happened early this morning, friday morning french time, that car started steaming towards paris heading in the direction that the Police Feared most, that in fact they might try to do Something Else inside paris. They had set up a roadblock across this secondary road and about 8 00 a. M. Or so approximately that is where a shootout occurred. The police were at the roadblock and the car sped through. There was gunfire exchanged. The car stormed on and then ended up in this Business Park, this Industrial Park in the small town about 25 miles north of paris population 8,500. They entered a business, printing supply business. Apparently there were five people inside that building. Somehow four got out. We have reports that one ran away and perhaps three others were somehow released. We dont know. But we do know that these two individuals which had
been variously identified as absolutely the suspects in this case or probably the suspects in this case although odds are that they absolutely are are in this building with a hostage. Now what were also hearing in addition to the huge amount of Police Special force, antiterror and military surrounding this location negotiations have begun. There is contact with one negotiator, we are told, referring to the particular sensitivities perhaps if you would say of these thugs, these killers. That is the religious orientation that they have. So theyre trying to mix cultural messages with a firm message that theyve got to give themselves up. As you and your guests have been reporting as we have been hearing the hostage is the game changer. We were hearing things like ring of steel around this Industrial Park. A war zone. There were shots exchanged at that situation as well. But now everything has slowed down. Were watching live feeds of the Business Park right now. Ive got to tell you it looks fairly casual. Its not a dog day afternoon al pacino situation. Youve got French Police standing around. Not hiding behind cars. You did note the sniper; thats important. Ive got to believe right now negotiation rather than force is playing the upper hand. Again also what were saying is that were hearing from some analysts that when it is necessary to use force, they will use force. One analyst was on french tv saying its just about game time. We dont know when that game time is. We dont know when that game is up. A few things stood out about your rundown. Theyre in the woods and they have a chance to get out or perhaps go farther and deeper. Instead they go back to where the population is. And they had a chance to kill the woman. Instead they just took her car knowing that shes
going to pick up the phone and communicate on what just happened. Yet shes alived to live. Yet we know theyre blood thirsty killers because we witnessed them on video. What do you make of the contradiction . One of your analysts made a good point. When they stormed the Charlie HebdoNewspaper Office on wednesday, they were in charge. They had the surprise. They had the guns. They had the masked faces. They had the rocket launcher. And so they were in control of the situation. Now they are on the run. Now theyre being hunted. And now this is what the French Authority are hoping for, they are willing to make a mistake or happening to make a mistake another crucial mistake im sure we pointed out before and will point out again, one of them said kouachi left his identification card in the car. Thats a major mistake. Theyre going to make mistakes. Again the game changer theyve got an individual in there a civilian with them and there have already been 12 innocent lives lost in this. French authorities do not want 13, do not want the number to be 13 many one quick question for you here. The suspect named the third suspect, the 18yearold that surrendered early on, was more information extracted from him as it pertains to these individuals right now holed up in that building . Youve got to believe that hes being very closely interrogated for every nuance possible from this person. Hes the brotherinlaw, we have heard, not confirmed, brotherinlaw of one of these, one of the two main suspect. So there was a possible family connection. He says he was innocent. He says he was at school. But he was clearly identified. Its our reckoning that he
probably was driving the getaway car. I have to add one more thing. Im going to be careful with this because it only comes from one source but the source is the main tv channel here a very reliable News Organization they are looking at the killing of that policewoman yesterday inside of paris. We were asking very closely of authorities is there a connection between the killing of that policewoman and the killing of the 12 around the Charlie Hebdo office. Tf1 is alleging there could be connection. Well be following that. If thats true youre talking about other killers out there. I will not stand by that story. I will not confirm it but it is a responsible News Organization putting that out right now. Were talking to the interior ministry to see if they can back that up. Greg is in paris where we are covering the story. 2002 bad guys from the murder of the two bad guys from the murder of those dozen people at the newspaper in france are believed to be holed up in that sprawling business there. It is a Printing Company in a small town about 20 miles away from paris called dammartinengoele. According to reuters isis, the Islamic State militant group is praising the gunmen behind the killings at the paris headquarters of Charlie Hebdo, referring to them as heroic jihadists. Meanwhile, ten minutes after the top of the hour. Ten afternoon in paris. Joining us on the phone former navy seal and f. B. I. Special agent Jonathan Gill yam. He was a member of the joint Terrorism Task force. Jonathan, thank you for joining us. We know that the kouachi brothers are inside that printing building. We know they have one hostage. We know they have said they
want to die marytrs. How are they going to do that . Are they going to blow up the building . Burn it down . What, as you look at it whats your worst fear . First off, i want to know if they meant to go to that Printing House. Because the fact that they went after cartoonists and the people who made the cartoon, did they just happen to end up in a Printing House . A very interesting point because if thats the case they may have already had a plan. Thats the b part of their plan to be there. If its not a part of their plan they may still have certain aspects of the way they want to go out. Were they using a rocket earlier in the earlier attacks . Do they still have those types of things with them now. Jonathan, one thing that could be clear, anyone who owns that printing place would know the secret ways to get in, how stock is
delivered. They would know the schematics of the building. If it was random and they just went for shelter, this is where the terrorists are at a disadvantage and anyone who worked in that building, designed that building or was able to escape from that building would be able to help the police force and counterterrorism officials get inside. Right. We have to look at and divine define what terrorism is. It is a tactic. Terrorism is a tactic where they take fear and they try to start using fear to cause a political change in the country in which they live. And what were seeing now is we saw an initial attack which used terrorism but at the same time it was going after the people that were drawing these cartoons and had this freedom of speech. Now its moved into a crosscountry chase into this facility where theres a hostage. And they know the more
violent they can make this happen the more on stage it can be seen across the world, that terror will leak into the system and will start to cause problems down the line. Jonathan, when were talking about this tactic and the force of fear, we have a hostage situation. Certainly no one wants this death toll to increase one more person. Take us into the mind set if you were in there as a negotiator, what can you say . What do you not say . How do you anticipate their responses to those tactical negotiations . We know there has be communication. Negotiators can do amazing things. The main goal of a negotiator is to get on to the same mindset and the same level as the person thats doing the attack. And thats where theyre good at stringing us along is that they let them
engage and let them think we are really interested in what they have to say. What happens there is, one, they do have a real cause theyre trying to get out they can continue to talk about that and wear them down. At the same time theyre looking for opportunities to get a tactical theme in there if possible. Heres the problem with groups like this many when youre looking at somebody who maybe took their family hostage because they have a divorce crisis, a lot of times you can whittle those people down to the bones so you can talk them out. But these individuals, they want to fight. So there may be a limited amount of time theyre going to talk and you have to have your guys ready to go in there at a moments notice. Jonathan, we understand the police are moving the press away from this particular printing business into a nearby village. Also apparently according to reports out of france there are reports that the hostage taken was a woman
but heres the new part. Apparently the suspects pretended to be policemen when they entered the building. We have a former senior c. I. A. Operations officer. Gary, we also understand they apparently are scrambling the phone lines and the internet as well. Why would they be doing that . Of course theyre going to isolate them. They dont want them to get Technical Support or tactical support or even emotional support from anyone in the area or abroad. When you had the mumbai attacks is en or eight years ago you had command and control of terrorists from pakistan. You dont want these guys on the phone with anyone from yes from yemen or paris. When you see the size of
this complex thats going to be a daunting task to get inside that billing and to get on top of them. Without a doubt. They are going to have one inner perimeter cll pin these which will pin these guys down. Then they will have a outer perimeter because they want people to be secure. They dont want anyone to break in the system. The inner perimeter makes sure there is no course to break out. The outer perimeter makes sure that nobody gets in there that may be in the media that may be of support to the guys on the inside. As i stated earlier, it is probably, i would guess the gign, the tactical intervention force, frances premier Counterterrorism Force that can act internationally most famous for their
daring rescue back in 1994 on the 24th of december that hostage situation there that took place in marseille on aircraft 8689. Originally it was reported two runways were shut down, apparently now open. What does that signal to you . The fremple are using a the french are using a preponderance of caution. They wouldnt want any fire fight to hit incoming aircraft. We dont know what the approach patterns are. They probably made sure all approaching aircraft are going to be clear of that area because you dont know whats going to happen here. You dont know what theyre armed with. You dont know if theyve got larger caliber weapons. They have possession of one of of the three from the initial attacks. They have been doing debriefings. They may know about the presence of explosions or any type of dangerous sort of armaments they may possess. The news we told folks
about yesterday as we look at the french countryside is that the eldest of the two brothers apparently did go to a Training Camp in yemen. That could explain how well they were able to handle those weapons on wednesday on the streets of paris. What else do you learn at those terror Training Camps . Do they learn about taking hostages . Do they learn about blowing up buildings . Frequently this terrorist training begins with ideological training. Once theyre certain that they have them where they want them ideologically they will go into small arms tactics, then into the creation of improvised explosion devices. These courses will be six, eight weeks some longer. Some will be sent back to advanced training courses leadership training. Groups like al qaeda when we invaded afghanistan 14 years ago had a terrorist university where individuals had special
buildings that did alias documents, other buildings that did tactics others that did explosives. Quite extensive. It demonstrates their commitment to making war on the west. Those were the good old days when there was just a hand full of terror bases. Now they have all of north africa. They have a wide swath possibly the beginning of a country with isis and the syria and iraq region. If we want to get on top of this, you could honestly say theyre in control of libya. If we want to get on top of this were talking about a massive operation rather than just get the people behind you to get into afghanistan. We also know that the younger brother was looked looked up to zarqawi at which time he did prison time because he was helping ferrying fighters to help zarqawi when he was the man in iraq. Brian, we are in the beginning of a battle of civilizeation. The arab spring caused the collapse of secular states
across the middle east. There are major swathes of territory that are ungoverned now and islamic cal fat terrorists have taken control of syria, iraq yemen libya. This is a growing phenomenon. It flies in the face of everything that seive liesation represents. Nothing is that civil ization represents. We are in a real fight here. And anyone who says that this isnt islamic terrorism is a useful idiot to the other cause. Absolutely. It plays into what they want. We understand these guys were on the u. S. Nofly zone because one of them was a convicted terrorist. But the level of surveillance done on these guys the kouachi brothers, by the french seems like
theyre not very serious about keeping track of the bad guys. The french are serious about it. The problem is the scale of the problem is so great now, when you talk about hundreds of nogo zones [no audio] we just lost gary. Hes talking about the millions of muslims who have towns and regions that the french cops evidently dont go into anymore. They let them police themselves. At least 1,000 french citizens have gone over and trained with isis and other outfits. Joining us is the former under secretary of defense for intelligence under president george w. Bush. General boykin was also one of the hostage negotiators, part of the team going back to the iranian hostage situation. General, as you look at whats happening inside that printing plant there
on the french countryside, your observations . My observations are that in spite of what some might say that these terrorists still believe that they are in control at least of their own individual situation. They are not going to come out of there alive. There are only a couple of possible outcomes both of which include i think these two guys being marytrs and thats exactly what they want to do. Were thankful that youre with us this morning, this hostage situation just about 25 miles outside of paris. Snipers are posted Police Standing guard. When these terrorists say they want to die as marytrs, whats the best way tactically to make sure theyre not taking anybody with them this time . I wont tell you that and i think greg just said they are starting to move the reporters to an outer circle, getting them out. I dont think theres any