distribute, as it happens many shareholders are mom and pop investors, people who own mutual funds, ir as. in fact, the public pension funds in the groups, the lobbying group i represented, came out against jamie dimon letter, saying wait a second here, you're supposed to be serving us, the shareholders, not the stakeholders. paul: well, the brt, their response is you guys are wrong, we have put ourselves in the stronger political position because by not falling for the -- by pointing out the truism that corporate profits help employees, help suppliers, help the communities in which they operate, we've now put ourselves in a stronger ground. do you buy that? >> from elizabeth warren's perspective, they've already conceded the principle. now she wants to haggle the price man. that's what's going on here. paul: the principle being what should corporations -- should