the committee relied on in addition to these? >> there is a lot of evidence that i would call direct evidence because it's not hearsay. if any of the people involved in this scheme are talking to each other and then relay what someone else said, that is not hearsay. that would be in court a coconspirator statement that would be admissible but let's not talk too far about -- it's very important because anything mr. giuliani says, anything ambassador sondland says, anything these people say is not hearsay and would be permitted under the federal rules of evidence. of course, we don't follow the federal rules of evidence here. we keep it more lenient. that's an important point. >> is there anything wrong, goldman, drawing inferences from circumstances? >> courts tell juries to draw inferences every single day in everything the court room. that is how you determine what the evidence shows. so when ambassador sondland
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