interviewed gates for his biography and jobs said the most influence initial his career was al gore and making the extension of the internet. henry ford, credited the federal aid road act of 1916, otherwise he could not have mass produced ford. end my case. mitt romney ought to pick on people snore what is your point? >> bob: they were all helped by the government. they know that. you are the only neanderthal -- sorry sorry -- pn who doesn't get that. >> greg: let me respond from the interesting idea from the young man over there. big problem for government claiming to deserve credit for other people's success. yep, i use roads when i get to work where i am success. so did ted bundy. he used roads. so did the manson family. i'm sure they drove down a fee highways and jeffrey dahlmer. if you take credit for people's success then you obviously deserve credit for evil deeds. that's what gods do, bob. >> bob: this is henry ford's own words. >> greg: i'm talking about obama's. >> bob: wait. this is what henry ford said about the road act of 1915. he couldn't have built cars. >> greg: a different time. of course there were no roads. >> bob: but without them he couldn't have built and done the model t. ford factory. >> andrea: is that a winning campaigntrategy? >> bob: i don't think this whole thing is a big -- eric thinks it's a big deal. it's ridiculous. you laugh it off, but i refuted everything you said. >> eric: president obama said if you succeed, someone gave you help. if you have a business, you didn't build it. somebody else made it happen. isn't that speech that fired up mitt romney, or a constant person attack? 37,000 negative ads so far against the guy. bain capital, where are your taxes? did they boo on purpose or did you want them to boo? attack after attack. >> dana: maybe that was the tipping point or straw that broke the camel's back. i don't know. i'll take a guess, though. what it was, they can call him all sort of things across the country. offending the sense of entrepreneur spirit and hard work that people put in businesses to build them. the purpose of road and school, we all benefit from them. there is an individual risk you take if you want to start a business. my business was small. i remember sleepless nights thinking am i doing the right thing? i have to get the paperwork done. my business was nothing compared to what other people have done. >> greg: your at-home strip club? >> dana: just me and the mirror. didn't generate a lot of money. [ laughter ] >> eric: he had us all floored for a second. >> bob: i would have paid to go see it if it was worth it. >> greg: i meant managing it. >> is this good? is this good strat question for mitt romney to take the ball, go on offense, instead of constantly deflecting? >> andrea: his strategy up until now according to an advisor on background is do no harm. i'm not an expert in sports. we know that. i asked who is playing in the all-star game. prevent defense does not work. it does not work in politics. can mitt romney maintain this tone? not get distracted by the constant everyday look at the monkey. whether it's offshore bank accounts or he is a bully or the other stories he seems to be chasing down. risk in responding to all of them. he needs to keep it up. unrelenting every single day. >> bob: keep it up with facts that are accurate instead of picking out three people that benefited from the got. >> ericgot -- government. the way he said it, he gave one of the better speeches i've seen him give. can he maintain that? i'm not sure. in this again was a question of he has been on the defensive for now for two weeks. he has to get back to the economy. white house releases rabbits and they chase rabbits. that is the advantage of being incumbent. >> dana: i think the independent voters see there is a risk for obama in that strategy. i heard from an independent voter that is related to me, key demographic if i were the obama campaign i'd target in a swing state as well, colorado. they heard about this staten't and said, obama's statement about the small business owners. it was like well, that is offensive. you know what? i think we're done here. the president is not establishing any big vision either. so they are chasing rabbits and romney has to be on the offensive. what's up? that thing in wrestling flips the guy over? >> eric: a flip. >> bob: pinning the guy. >> dana: pinning? done you flip them somehow? >> eric: i think the romney camp has been patient and smart waiting for the right opportunity and waiting for obama to say the wrong thing and pounce. >> greg: the romney campaign is creating the strategy. you talk at letting out the rabbits, the media lets the rabbits out and hoping that he will follow the rabbits. he is addressing the economy. talking about two contrasting philosophies, two visions for the world. it seems that obama is getting opinions on private enterprise from leaflets from duchati park. the difference between bho and whs is letters. >> eric: the closest between the main street media and obama, did they not say we are going to let the felony rabbit out, chase it. it's a big one. >> they make sure the rabbits are bigger. they don't let the rabbit go in a cage. >> dana: put rabbit in a room of shiny mirrors and they are like this. >> bob: these rabbits are true. one thing, one thing, john sununu, one of the spokes people. he said that obama has to learn to be an american. sleazy -- >> andrea: that is not what he said. b. he walked it back. that is exactly what he said. today he said he walked that back. >> andrea: what he said is fundamental un-american. the independent voters -- >> bob: you have to learn to be an american? >> andrea: that is not exactly what he said. >> bob: that is exactly what he said. don't tell me it's not what he said. >> andrea: open the paper and see more women are the breadwinners and more people opening businesses. people will look at this and say that's not the american way. government knows better than the individual. >> bob: that is not what obama was saying in the first place. >> andrea: he said get on the ground and kiss the road. >> bob: he said a lot of people helped you on the way up and a lot of people did. i gave you example of the three puck sesful americans -- three successful americans. >> dana: who made money to pay taxes to build the roads? it's a chicken and egg argument. >> bob: gates said without the space program he couldn't have built the p.c. what do you say about that? >> dana: without english class i could haven't been the press secretary. >> bob: su n.b.a. said it's the american way and i wish the president would learn how to be an american. get the quotes right. >> eric: he also didn't say what would obama know about creating jobs and running companies? he spent his 20s, younger years smoking. coming up, person who supported president obama in 2008 may be bailing on him in 2012. details coming up. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] if you believe the mayan calendar, on december 21st polar shifts will reverse the earth's gravitational pull and hurtle us all into space. which would render retirement planning unnecessy. but say the sun rises on december 22nd, and you still need to retire. td ameritrade's investment consultants can help you build a plan that fits your life. we'll even throw in up to $600 when you open a new account or roll over an old 401(k). so who's in control now, mayans? ♪ ♪ >> greg: welcome back to "all my children." sunday "new york times" had thing on penny, wealthy obama supporter who is mia. bob's apartment was searched this morning and she is not there. she owns hyatt hotels now gets obama's take on private enterprise. she is just not that into it. the same paper, author paul nevitt says gutting of public benefit appeals to our self-esteem. in my head, this is becoming the bowles between builder and garn cans. the obama media complex trying to recast america as selfish empire. they say we are selfish for not paying pensions and selfish wanting lower taxes. fair share is now must share. is it sevennish to say your councilmember sinking under debt -- country is sinking under debt. is it selfish to want to keep as much money for your family? society to rely on family? yet, we are asked to put government first. the solution seems noble. give more. but it isn't when they never believe what you are giving was yours to begin with. i say it's time to get selfish and make obama and the rest fight for every dollar they want to take from you and me. maybe the only way they finally understand the value of hard work. dana? >> dana: yes. >> greg: are we evil sevennish people? >> dana: completely! i wake up every day and i can barely look at myself in the mirror, after that unfortunate business i tried to start earlier. i want to thank the twitter follower who let me know the wrestling move i was looking for is called "reverse." >> greg: try it on jasper. >> dana: you have to teach the dog you're in charge. that's what it's called. this is what was interesting in the "new york times" article. andy stern, labor leader seiu said there is a huge unresolved set of issue in the democratic party between people of wealth and people who work. penny is a living example of the issue. so having helped elect the president they wanted now they throw her under the bus. there is intraparty class warfare. a lot of democrats this week might be on the fence about donating to the obama campaign. they may direct to senate campaign. i don't think they want to give to them. >> greg: what did harry reid say this morning? seven odd white men -- >> eric: can't get elected. >> greg: trying to get romney elected. >> dana: angry old white men. >> greg: are the left going to operate on the stereotype of business they're all greedy white men? >> eric: it's scary that president obama went off prompter on the virginia speech on friday did what he did. he demonized business again. this will reverberate throughout the left, pull talking points out from under trump. donald trump. the labor leader. he had a hard time today talking about what we wanted to talk about. he wanted to demoonize romney but hard to do that given that speak. dana pointed out work. when you go on welfare you're supposed to make an attempt to work. you heard about welfare reform. president obama usurped congress and redefine working on welfare. did you hear what they are calling on thursday? >> dana: with executive order thursday. >> eric: bed rest is work. get ma massage. journaling is work. motivational reading are work. >> andrea: massaging are work? bob is a workaholic. >> eric: the world on the left is so whacked out that is what work is, instead of earning a living. >> andrea: journaling, that's awesome. >> bob: let me just say a couple of things if i could. you suggest that the left and the democratic party are against business and against work is absolutely ridiculous a -- >> dana: i said they had a fight between them. >> bob: i'm talking about what eric said and greg said in the monologue. it's our money. how about this? take our money away from the defense department. you love the defense department. >> greg: i like the defense department. i'm sure they could spend their money more effectively. i agree. >> bob: we could gut them. >> greg: the idea of gutting it, i'm against. >> bob: gut them $100 million. >> greg: if that is how much you can take from it, sure. i don't want to end up like european nation that you gut defense to pay for entitlement so you can't protect yourself. >> dana: remember the federal government is set up under our system, two responsibilities. one to protect the country. gutting maybe epa would be a better start than gutting the defense department. >> bob: if that is the case we do away with the clean water and clean air act. yea! >> andrea: hate clean air. >> greg: i hate clean air. >> bob: you live in hell's kitchen like i do. there isn't clean air there. the fact is you are trying to make this divide here, that doesn't exist. >> andrea: wait, wait, wait. >> greg: it started -- obama started the divide. >> bob: the divide was between a very small percentage at the top and the rest of us. >> dana: 1 versus the 989%. >> andrea: this statement was his joe the plumber moment. this is the sound that will be played over and over and over. is this the gaffe? yes and no. big gaffe. this is who obama really is. it's liberalism with a capital "l." not a small "l." to your point, dana, that's why a lot of democrats look at this, not even the super rich. democrats working hard. it brought up women who are making more money. i think they will look at this and say to sununu's point, which if i could clarify he's not thinking like an american. >> bob: he said he's not an american. learn to be an american is what he said. leaving that aside, i hear what you are saying here. the top 1% in the country, including myself have had the freest ride since ronald reagan of any group in the country. the fact is the middle class and poor have not. >> eric: if you honestly can author a bill or proposal that said activities qualifying, quote/unquote, work, under welfare rules, include weight loss promotion, participating in parent-teacher meetings, journaling, it's a joke. it defines what, it defines the left right there. >> bob: that defines the whole left. one executive order. >> eric: no one on the right worth their salt would define work as quitting smoking. >> greg: wait a second. that is work! i'm telling you, that is work. >> andrea: obama did quit smoking. >> bob: the policy group on capitol hill position there ought to be a department of education or environment? or should there be environmental regulations? is that what we should do? i thought you would. that's exactly right. during the water -- dirty the water and air and go back to when river was on fire. perfect. >> greg: you read my mind. i want orphans everywhere. >> bob: you do. >> greg: i do! coming up, important shifts in the 2012 electoral map. who is benefiting, obama or romney or captain furball my pomeranian? he is running strong in three states. hawaii, i believe. we'll hear from karl rove. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> dana: welcome back to "the five." betalk about politics and shaping up, coming up is the presidential election. our own karl rove and joe trippi contributors to fox news and both who have run presidential campaigns have a new electoral map they say this is their best thinking looking at the polls. we pull up the map and take a look at the different states, ones that lean romney, ones that lean obama. yellow ones you see there are tossups. bob, you need 270 electoral votes in order to win the presidency. do you think that this map is accurate? >> bob: it's accurate. there are things here that are interesting and should be concern to obama. not the least of which is michigan. romney was, you know, that is, he is considered the romney family. that is his home state of many. but that is the one he claims. the other thing, as michigan goes, so goes ohio. ohio is a critical here. the three states i think they need to concentrate on are ohio, where they think they can win the race. ohio, florida, michigan. but the other states that are interesting to me is that -- by the way, romney has got to win one of those two states. virginia and north carolina, both of which obama won in the last election. they have now become more democratic, because of the vast increase in the number of hispanic voters. so with that in mind, i think that is the reason he is ahead in virginia. despite what they say, he is ahead in ohio. >> dana: i want to hear from rove about michigan and come to you about the reasons how it could possibly be. this is news to chicago. show you what karl rove said last night. >> only two states changed. michigan and new hampshire. over the win from lean obama, based on recent polls to tossup states. there were changes in a variety of other states but none of them that changed the status. two states representing 20 electoral college votes, michigan 16. new hampshire with four went in the tossup category. three tossup states moved toward obama. >> dana: eric, about a month ago, most people thought michigan leaning -- moving to a tossup state. so the obama campaign instead of shrinking campaigns to spen money to win is growing. that is not a good thing for them. how is it that michigan with the auto bail-out, all of that junk is actually helping romney? >> eric: it's kind of interesting. it feels to me like both sides, bob says it is leaning romney. karl says possible -- both say it's not right and not left. push it away. underpromise, over form that thing. michigan is probably the one that is the real tossup. bob, i disagree with you on north carolina. it seems like it's moving further and further right as we go. we saw polling numbers moving further right. that's a romney state. >> bob: what i said was it had a strong increase in hispanic voters. because they vote democratic. and in the end, north carolina will go for romney. i think virginia will go for -- >> eric: hispanic voters vote democratic, why are you saying there is a strong increase in hispanic voters in north carolina? >> bob: north carolina has had increase in employment and they have a lot -- i tite say this. a lot of chickens and agriculture. >> dana: they have problems in north carolina. take us around the rest of the country. colorado and virginia, trippi and rove say are looking good for obama at this point. >> andrea: yes. the area to watch is the industrial midwest, right? two points. i do agree with rove. i think romney will win new hampshire. michigan, why is michigan important? it's a money pit. when you run as an incumbent, you don't want to spend money and resources in states you should have to win easily. this happened in 2004. remember with bush and kerry. bush forced kerry to spend money in pennsylvania. i think states to watch besides michigan are wisconsin, indiana, ohio. these are states that have historically trended democratic. now republicans in the south when bush was running, the strategy was went south of the mason dixon line and pick up other states like florida. this time around, i think obama will have to go on defense and spend money on states he does not think he was going to have to. i think romney is going to be able to play off of -- >> dana: greg hasn't had a chance to comment. before we get to greg, can i mention one thing? four states where the obama campaign is not spending resources. nebraska, north dakota, missouri and montana. all of those four become pickup state for possible republicans in -- >> bob: they were republican last time. >> dana: in the senate. it makes a big difference. greg, you haven't had a chance to talk. >> greg: can we get to the big picture here? >> dana: i like the big picture. >> greg: i have my own electoral map. bring it up. green, people in green during this segment they got up and made a sandwich and had something to drink. now the folks in the yellow, they use this segment to go to the bathroom. right now, you can hear a national nationwide flush going on. >> dana: bring it to election night? >> bob: indiana has been a republican state. it's aberration when it went that way. it will go republican again. ohio has gone back and forth. it's a bellwether state. wisconsin is not going to go -- >> dana: think about it. >> bob: of the nine states that are critical, romney has to win six out of nine. that's the important thing. six out of nine. >> andrea: but obama creeped in the south last time around. he creeped in a state -- >> bob: florida. >> andrea: and virginia, which is a -- >> bob: north carolina. >> andrea: north carolina. i want to point out we talk about on the show. the president started running ads in african-american media markets already. that is why when people say he is not worried about this in the