and then, is president obama the scrooge? did you know his administration wanted to add charges for christmas tree? yeah, ba-humbug. "the five" starts right now. ♪ ♪ >> kimberly: our top story today the next 2012 g.o.p. presidential debate and the economy again will be front and center. some questions tonight they'll focus on, different economic plans. they'll be, you know, have the questions posed to them. who has the best idea? who can explain it? there is criticism that even herman cain with the 9-9-9 plan, still asked direct questions have been able to flush out details. if you look at it, and they did a nice job of laying out the different plan, comparing, contrasting the talking about the taxes the impact on jobs. he has take an look at the plans. >> andrea: my favorite plan, jon huntsman, is probably not going to get a lot of play, because he is so low in the polls. look, all of the candidates have plans that move the ball in the right direction. they all do. they are all different from what obama is trying to do. i think it's very difficult for them to articulate what the plan is in a limited amount of time they have. that is the real challenge. for all of them. >> bob: never been to a presidential debate where economic plans ever got to be a mover of voters or mover of headlines. the reality one thing overhangs the campaign, herman cain. in the last 24 hours who will place himself where? this is down to 60 days to iowa. these guys have to make moves. no more chance here to be playing, you know, trying to be nice or position and get known. now it's time to make strategic moves. i think there will be strategic moves that are dangerous but probably worthwhile. >> greg: who is going to bring it up? like thanksgiving dinner when your uncle is a cross-dresser. everybody goes hey,al bob, how are you doing? everything is great. nobody wants to point it out. >> kimberly: don't you hate when that happens? >> greg: i'm the uncle bob. it will be jim kraime they're brings it up. he looks like a clown after makeup comes off. i think he will bring it up. >> andrea: you don't think they will have a woman do it? >> greg: i don't think so. >> andrea: other candidates should stay away from it and answer as such. say listen, we have $14 trillion in debt, iran poised to be nuclear, sputtering unemployment situation at home. this is not the number one issue. let's get back to the issue. i guarantee they will follow up with but aren't you concerned that one of the other presidential hopefuls, this is a big issue? >> eric: this is cnbc, nbc property. the economy is on its ear. stock market was down 389 points. fannie needs $13 million more. g.m. falling off the edge of the cliff. they will probably won't ask those questions, they will probably say herman cain how come four people accuse you sexual assault? >> kimberly: think they will lead off at this? >> eric: no. but there are eight debates so far and one is concentrated is on what every g.o.p.er should want to talk about. the economy is failing but we're caught up in gardasil or sexual assault. >> bob: what is gardasil? if someone brings it up it's a moderator. it doesn't make sense a candidate to bring it up. two people should throw advantage of it and throw a long ball. michele bachmann and rick santorum. they were the ones who benefit from herman cain. they are out of the race. finished. >> kimberly: is it a good idea to focus on each other and shoot in the tent or focus on the obama administration and the -- >> bob: focus on 100,000 caucus voters in iowa in 60 days. there are or questions that should be asked. i'll give you examples. the ohio voters voted 2-1 against the antiunion bill last night. the arizona senator that sponsored that bill and was recalled. >> greg: bob, you are using this to make your views known. >> bob: i was asked the question and instead of saying -- what they'll say is yes, the obama healthcare plan. conservative bill judged, the court, let it go through. those are questions i'd like to see answered. >> andrea: they voted against the individual mandate that sends a message to the supreme court, bob. that was symbolic. in ohio. >> greg: i have a question. which -- >> kimberly: did the white house send this to you? >> greg: no. >> bob: the white house didn't send me this. >> greg: which rick perry will show up? the fifth rick perry of every previous debate or fun rick perry with the moving hands? i want to see the loose perry. >> eric: how about the one that the plan is best of all plans for creating jobs. >> kimberly: flat tax. >> eric: yes, but also he says open up the drilling. open up the west coast/east coast continental shelf to drill and create million jobs. i think rick perry and newt gingrich have the best plans. >> andrea: i agree. rick perry needs -- i know we say this but he needs to now more than ever hit a home run this evening. >> kimberly: why is that? nipping at the heels. >> andrea: you ask where does the support go if herman cain loses his? where would it go? to perry or santorum? their chance to step up. >> greg: it's a bar, last call. right now a few people are hanging out that should be going home. moderators should be taking the chairs and put them upside down. >> bob: this could not be a better setup for newt gingrich. going in to tonight. he has momentum on his side. he said we shouldn't pick on each other. if it comes up, focus on it. he has a good economic plan and focus on that. he could be the good guy with a smart idea. be a result. if gingrich does as well as i think, he can pick up big -- >> kimberly: he is looking for that. he has the momentum. and perry is in trouble. he won't touch the cain -- gingrich won't touch it. >> eric: a moderator is rick santelli, a friend of mine who some say was there at the beginning of the tea party. he is calling for smaller government. i guess he will go right after. he will say are the established government. >> greg: i have advice for romney. the last minute before the debate change your name legally to unnamed republican. he will be a shoo-in. >> kimberly: great advice. >> greg: or not barack obam obama. >> andrea: i think other candidates will gang up on him. >> bob: absolutely. >> andrea: don't you, bob? >> bob: absolutely. if you get this nomination what will happen in the first debate when obama turns to you in the first debate and say thank you for giving me inspiration obmy healthcare reform? governor, when i was thinking about healthcare reform. i went to the massachusetts plan and gave me inspiration. thank you. >> eric: romney anyway over obama. >> kimberly: we'll see what happens. we can talk about it tomorrow. >> bob: not a chance. >> kimberly: it is a swing state for the election. it has unemployment of 11.1%. so people are worrying about jobs there. they should address that issue tonight. coming up, who do you believe? herman cain or his accusers? five of us will tell you what we think. that is coming up next. make sure to e-mail us at thefive@foxnews.com. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> andrea: welcome back to "the five." as a back and forth between herman cain and his accusers, he is boiling over. the court of public opinion, all of us, weigh details. one question is on all of our minds: who do you believe? do you believe the accusers or do you believe herman cain? that is going to be the ultimate question to determine his fate. kimberly? >> kimberly: a little bit of both. not quite the middle. but i mean we still need more facts to come out. am i disgusted with the specifics, not paying the wine bill? ridiculous. they are piling it on definitely. it happened a long time ago. if they were that wounded, why didn't they bring a legal case against him in court? and report it to the employment board. >> andrea: some claims they're making. she had another complaint she took after the national restaurant association offended by a joke about men and women. is this even sexual harassment or women overly sensitive? >> greg: if that e-mail is sexual harassment, i am suing my aunt who is sending me e-mails about how cats are better than men. you know who i believe in this? i believe in gloria allred. she has a rat signal. she looks up at the sky and it says opportunity for self-promotion. she hops on a broom and there and never wrong. >> andrea: isn't there three sides to every story? his, hers and the truth? >> eric: this morning in the meeting we talked about it, it doesn't matter. for me i want to see how my presidential candidate reacts when the crap is coming at him. it was crap coming at him. whether or not he did it. barring major sexual harassment and assault, he handled it terribly in the beginning. he was more presidential yesterday. >> andrea: now he impressed you and you canner government him for bundling it. >> eric: i don't know what he has done but i like him more today. >> andrea: you have been on the campaigns before. >> bob: if i was on a jury and had to vote guilt or not guilt i'd vote not got on the facts -- not guilt on the facts but he's already done. no way that republican party will put him up. herman cain may not have done this and it may be unfair. life is not fair. i tell you one thing, when they think they have obama in cross hairs like now, idea of a flawed candidate not going to -- >> andrea: tainted candidate. i agree with you. some say can herman cain raise money and win anyway? you look every day, cover of the account postit quote and you look at details there is nothing there. but it does hurt him. >> greg: does america really care? it's fodder for "new york post" and fodder for us because it builds the buckets we need to fill every day. i don't know anybody outside our area -- >> andrea: g.o.p. primary voters. >> kimberly: but they do if they are that hungry to get obama out of the white house. you don't want someone else going around innocent or not. he has been fairly treated by the media. you think a double standard as well. no one wants to pile it on. when they have facts about john edwards. hello. "enguirer" had to do it. >> andrea: yesterday there was there was a cage match with bob and eric over comments that were unsubstantiated. >> the fact is these anonymous allegations are false. now the democrat machine in america brought forth a troubled woman to make false accusations, statements many exceed common sense. they compete standard of decency in america. >> andrea: i thought that was one weak spot. he did a great job. but you can't come out and slam people for baseless allegations and then make a baseless allegation. >> bob: you talk about indecent, that was indecent, ridiculous, absurd and for herman cain, someone i talk to many times, i am disgusted with that. not just because i'm a democrat. you're right. he said the baseless charges against me. i should be given opportunity to have a court of public opinion. i want to see the evidence. and then he makes an allegation. he should be ashamed of himself. >> eric: i don't know if you to what is going on and the talk show and radio. here is what is going on. systemic taking apart of a conservative right by the left. they are not doing it to romney. they are not doing it to newt gingrich. they are established center of the road republicans. far right is systemically -- >> andrea: who -- >> eric: allow me to finish. first, palin when it looked like she was going to go with the e-mails. then bachmann. headache. perry smoking or drinking or whatever. mccain kay tacks women. it's one after the other after the other. >> bob: who are you talking about? >> eric: the left. >> bob: put names on the table and evidence on the table? >> eric: as soon as we find out who politico, the person or group was i'll put the names on the table. my hunch is the left wing nut jobs at media matters and the other lefty blogs and maybe -- >> andrea: here it comes. >> bob: why in the world would people on the left -- >> eric: they're afraid of them. >> bob: excuse me. we would like nothing better than run against herman cain. >> eric: i think you are wrong. >> bob: the people who -- [ overtalk ] >> bob: if i had to list the people -- this is the order we'd like running. sarah palin, michele bachmann. >> greg: much rather go after romney because romney has a better chance of winning. cain talked about -- >> bob: thank you very much. >> eric: they got romney beat already. >> greg: no, they don't. he is the toughest challenger. >> eric: they are a socialist left. they are there. >> andrea: i think they want to run against romney. >> kimberly: they do. >> andrea: iran, remaining defiant on the new question. what should obama do about it? we have advice for you next. ♪ ♪ we know a place where tossing and turning have given way to sleeping. where sleepless nights yield to restful sleep. and lunesta can help you get there, like it has for so many people before. when taking lunesta, don't drive or operate machinery until you feel fully awake. walking, eating, driving, or engaging in other activities while asleep, without remembering it the next day, have been reported. abnormal behaviors may include aggressiveness, agitation, hallucinations or confusion. in depressed patients, worsening of depression, including risk of suicide, may occur. alcohol may increase these risks. allergic reactions, such as tongue or throat swelling, occur rarely and may be fatal. side effects may include unpleasant taste, headache, dizziness and morning drowsiness. ask your doctor if lunesta is right for you. then get lunesta for $0 at lunesta.com. there's a land of restful sleep. we can help you go there on the wings of lunesta. ♪ ♪ >> eric: welcome back to "the five." iranian president mahmoud ahmadinejad, reacting to today's international atomic energy agency. islamic dictator proclaimed iran won't retreat "one iota" on their nuclear ambition. so for those playing along at home, mr. ahmadinejad is the same guy who "a," questioned israel's right to exist. "b," called the holocaust a myth. and "c" crowned himself king of all truthers by pronouncing 9/11 a big lie. so a nuclear iran, increasing by the day, the risk, should the apologist in chief roll up his sleeves and do something, bob? >> bob: first of all, that is one of the more outrageous ways to describe a president. coming from you, i'll take that. let me put hit the way, the more sanctions put on iran by the obama administration than any other administration. if you notice, head engineer of the country was assassinated. there was a bug, virus put in the computer system. i am here to tell you the c.i.a. did that. i think our intelligence community has been working with israel to set that program back a number of years. if it's this far along, thoug though, us also believe that barack obama would be the first one with the israelis to ache out -- >> eric: the u.s. force or -- >> bob: both. >> eric: last night i spoke to the deputy speaker of the knesset. the speaker of the house in israel. he said all options are left on the table. if israel decides to go, how does the obama administration react? do they say hey, we have our support, we'll help you? or say you are on your own? >> andrea: they absolutely have to help them. there is a question of what they say publicly, versus what they do behind the scenes. we absolutely should support them, based on what obama said with sarkozy on the hot mike. israel is nervous now. also on the past action of the obama administration. i know stay have imposed sanctions. the sanctions have not worked. the real opportunity for change, the real opportunity for change and democrats and republicans agree is regime change in iran. we had the opportunity. we did. they refused to get involved. >> eric: there was no way that the administration with overturn it. >> bob: any decision that israel make, if i say this about netanyahu. in israel they think he is a jerk. this is not that i know that i heard that think the guy -- separate netanyahu from israel. >> eric: i disagree. he represents israel. we represent an ally to israel. frankly, kimberly, netanyahu has been treated like garbage when he comes here. obama sit down -- >> andrea: you can't deny -- >> eric: he broke his word. >> kimberly: relations have been strained. this is one of the most serious times we face. iaea has 1,000 pages of research over a period of a decade. showing arms related advances on behalf of iran. we have to take it seriously and have a good relationship with israel. one of trust and working together. >> eric: let me ask about the open mike that andrea mentioned. sarkozy saying that netanyahu is a liar. obama laughing it off. you think you got it tough,vy to deal with the guy every day. is this what you want? leader of the free world. is that how you want to treat a world leader? >> greg: two points. i think bob is right about netanyahu being a jerk. but you would be a jerk, too if you were facing the problems that he faces every day. and secondly, you should have a jerk as your leader. those are the best leaders in the world. are the people that everybody has a problem, has to deal with. that means he is filing for your interest -- fighting for your interest. the new issue like a kid building the sandcastles. when you are going to kick it over, wait until they're finished. don't do it now. wait until they're almost done and kick it over. >> kimberly: really? >> bob: how do you address it? iaea report, most all of that intelligence comes from the united states satellite. the obama administration giving that to the iaea. and the other thing i would say when you said netanyahu was left sitting in the white house there was a reason for that. they made a commitment they were not going to expand the settlement in the west bank and he brock his word. >> eric: wait a minute. >> bob: broke his word. >> eric: there was another issue that obama suggested carving up jerusalem, which is very much against almost every israeli you talk to. >> eric: netanyahu made a commitment -- >> bob: netanyahu made a commicommitment. he buckled to the right wing. >> kimberly: keep in mind iran has been number one leader of state sponsored terrorists. >> bob: some people already saw the -- >> eric: they're yelling at me. tease, got to go. joe paterno brought down by a sex scand that rocked the football team. plus, did the man they call "joe pa" and other school officials do all they could have done? "the five" will discuss it next. ♪ ♪ the employee of the month is... spark card from capital one. spark cash gives me the most rewards of any small business credit card. it's hard for my crew to keep up with 2% cash back on every purchase, every day. 2% cash back. that's setting the bar pretty high. thanks to spark, owning my own business has never been more rewarding. [ male announcer ] introducing spark the small business credit cards from capital one. get more by choosing unlimited double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase, every day. what's in your wallet? this guy's amazing. that's on "special report" at 6:00 eastern. now back to new york and "the five." ♪ ♪ >> bob: what were we thinking about with that song? welcome back to "the five" today. today, penn state football legend joe paterno announced he will retire at the end of the season after the school was rocked by sexual abuse allegations. >> jerry sandusky indicted now accused of sexually abusing at least eight young boys. >> this is not a case about football. not a case about university. this is a case about children who have had their innocence stolen from them. >> joe paterno stopped from holding the weekly news conference. >> i know you guys have a lot of questions and i was hoping i'd be able to answer them. but we'll try to do it as soon as we can. >> the football program here doesn't deserve -- [ inaudible ] >> i think he did what he is supposed to. >> the face of penn state. [ chanting ] >> the kids involved in some of