beat in a primary. i would point you to jimmy carter. a weak president, challenge by ted kennedy. guess who crushed ted kennedy? it is tough to beat an incumbent president if he doesn't want to go. the question is can joe biden keep the shuffling along before the charade ends and it becomes is it gavin newsom, michelle obama? it is not kamala harris. >> looking at this from afar, what is the mechanism? if the party decides they cannot move forward with biden as the nominee but he wants to, what is the mechanism for stopping him doing that? >> the dnc is controlled by the incumbent president sitting in the white house. the dnc will do whatever the president wants done. it is going to be hard for the