ukraine with the pressure picking population to be western oriented but putin also derives a lot of benefit by being perceived, even though his country gdp is the size of italy , to be up to go toe to toe with the united states. what is missing now is ukraine. they are not even in all of these discussions and negotiations. it's just russia and the united states. that's the way he wants it. he wants to beat the price of the agreement in the year 22. that is kind of what vladimir putin wants to do. he wouldn't be doing this if he didn't think that he could get away from it. daniel hoffman, thank you for letting us in on your expertise. >> all the best to you. >> still to come. a rare underwater discovery in the south pacific.