>> the people who are closest to clintons have made out very well. >> i don't feel no way tired. john: yikes! once on vacation i was stunned to see bill and hillary there. we had lunch, and i argued for quite a while. i'll tell you about that. hillary clinton. that's our show. . announcer: and now, john stossel. >> i know you donald trump fans have high hopes. get real. the smart money, the people who bet say hillary is pretty certain to be america's next president. we devote our entire show to hillary. what worries me most about her is that i fear her ideas are going to strangle our future. she thinks she knows what's best for everyone. she'll micromanage our lives, spend our money, she thinks she'll do that better than you do it. we'll spend and promise to spend much more money than we have and hillary wants to spend more. it's worth it because her spending will create jobs. >> jobs and infrastructure, our roads, bridges, tunnels, port, rail system, water system. [ applause ] >> the audience applause but don't says dan mitchell of the cato institute. here to debate him is democrat, fox news co-host juan williams. are you going to vote for her? >> probably, if she's running against trump. the question you asked to me is quite important and so glad you're doing this, because i think for many people, the idea that you would invest more in stimulus spending comes across almost as profane. john: yes. >> i'm here to say to you, john, if you spent more, you might have gotten more bang for your buck. generates higher levels of consumer spending which generates more economic activity to the benefit of us all. john: dan, take it away, we should spend gazillions of dollars. >> somehow throw a dollar into the magic bucket, swish it around and magic unicorns give us everything that we want. john: makes sense. people have more money, spend more money. more activity. >> government can't give us a dollar without taking it out of the productive sector of the economy. every time changing economics has tried and failed. the excuse always is, oh, if only we spent more, it would have worked. no, you spent more, you wind up being greece. john: hillary wants to spend 350 billion for reduced college tuition, 75 billion for clean energy. a trillion dollars in new spending. juan, year going broke. we can afford this? >> we're going broke. we can't afford to pay social security, medicare, the promises we've made already. >> that's not true. social security is viable for many years out. i would agree that there seems to be a cutoff point where the reserve would be expended. so the real issue is in terms of entitlement spending and how we can cut back or adjust it. >> we have a hundred trillion perhaps $200 trillion of unfunded liabilities for various government programs. john: juan says this fund hasn't run out yet. >> it hasn't yet. imagine if this was a show in greece in 2003, i bet people on the left in greece said hey, we're in good shape. if something can't go on forever, it does stop. john: i like that i sent my producer to ask people at a clinton rally. what do you like about her? >> she's very well qualified, and she has experience getting things done. >> hillary has a way of getting things done. john: what does she get done, juan? we look for her achievements as a senator. we found three bills she began. a bill to name a post office after major george cuomo, a bill to name a highway after tim m russert. a bill to establish the american labor study center as the national historic site. that was it. john: that i think you are mocking hillary clinton by doing so effectively. >> if all hillary clinton ever did is to have bills to rename post offices, that would be great. i wish all politicians does stuff like that. >> she was re-elected in the state for a reason. people felt she represented them well. if you go to the larger issue as what did she accomplish as secretary of state? we're in an interesting mix in terms of -- end. >> ing a war? what two wars did she end? . >> helped tend to the war in iraq and afghanistan. john: wow, i thought those were still going on. at the clinton rally, kids were chanting hillary? >> hillary! hillary! hillary! hillary! >> so cute to see the kids. i think real loyalty starts when you are about that age. >> unattractive to me, unattractive when you see people screaming profanities at trump because he demonizes mexicans and latinos. i think it's wrong. john: one big democratic scene this year has been the conceit that few government subsidies will stop climate change. >> we're going to combat climate change by creating clean renewable energy jobs by the millions. i believe that we can have installed a half a billion more solar panels by the end of my first term, and enough clean energy to power every home in america by the end of my second term! >> take money from people and subsidize people like me who can afford a house with solar panels on it. this is a good thing and going to have any effect on climate >> what do you mean? if people are burning fewer carbon based fuels and relying more on the sun, the wind, in other words, environmentally friendly sources of energy, i think that helps us all. if you are concerned about climate change. maybe you're not. john: well, i'm concerned the climate is changing, i'm not sure we did it, and i'm certain that these things aren't going to make any difference. >> this is a recipe for more solyndra-type scandals and slush money to donors and stuff like that. i don't like the government using green energy as an excuse. john: but if there's an environmental problem, that's a role for government. >> if it's happening, and it's caused by man, what is the most intelligent way to mitigate it and deal with it, i don't think having government industrial policy is the smart approach. john: to my great relief, our likely next president sometimes says things she might understand what actually creates prosperity. >> create the economic conditions. obviously, most jobs are started and grown by private business but matters what kind of conspiracy there is. john: create the economic conditions, she gets it. >> i think that's right. if government is providing core public goods like rule of law, property rights, enforcing contracts. if that's what hillary means by, it i'm with her. unfortunately, i suspect she has a much more expansive definition. john: maybe she means it, and juan, your new book about american leaders gives me hope. you call libertarian economist milton friedman the founding father of the american economy as we know it today. i assume you mean that as a compliment? >> in part, yes. i think it has contributed to the issue of income inequality that is so dynamic in this election season from the bernie sanders side to the donald trump side of the political spectrum. government does play a role in terms of getting out of the way? >> if you can say, that i think that's what you would say. i would say making sure it's a level playing field. you talked about enforcing contracts, making sure everyone has an equal opportunity. that's also a function of government, in an era where it looks like the big boys are running away with the game. john: on social media i asked people what are good things about hillary clinton? on facebook jim wrote -- public service, dan? >> i guess it means making lots of money, giving speeches to goldman sachs, i'm not sure what it means other than her friends made out like bandits. john: i say real public service is make people's lives matter. steve jobs did the public a service by creating personal computers and the iphone. henry ford did a public service by making cars affordable to poor people. most of you do public service when you work, you provide people the service or product, politicians, they do the left public service. they take money from us and pander for votes by giving it back. juan, am i wrong? >> i'm all for innovation and private sector growth, but i believe that capitalism needs governing so you don't have us exploiting children and having people view the economy -- >> do you want to live in brazil and get to your home in a helicopter on a mountain top. john: limit the governments like hong kong and australia. >> hong kong? you should check their welfare rates. far higher than ours. >> hong kong, only 3% of the population is receiving government assistance. john: finally, at that clinton rally, i was surprised how many people said they like hillary because she's a woman. >> what is it that you like about hillary for president? >> well, i think hillary would bring a lot of change for women. >> i'd really like to see a woman in office. >> it's time that we had our chance. >> i believe it's time we had a woman in the white house. john: seems sort of anti-feminist. shouldn't people vote for you because you're the best not because of your gender. >> if we were talking about margaret thatcher, i'd be cheering. >> the idea that the economically developed nations never had a woman as leader, ours have, great britain, israel? >> why didn't your friends celebrate margaret thatcher, only left-wing women? john: would you celebrate sarah palin? >> no, i disagree so many of the policies. hillary clinton has been twice elected senator, secretary of state, and now running for president. not that she's gone through only republican criticism but the test of leadership in our country. john: thank you, juan. dan. coming up, my lunch with hillary. really, that happened. and upcoming movie that answers the question how did the clintons get so rich so quickly? >> enormous amounts of money have flowed to the clintons from governments, foreign financiers and lobbyists. some of the money lands in their pocket. every day you read headlines about businesses being hacked and intellectual property being stolen. that is cyber-crime. and it affects each and every one of us. microsoft created the digital crimes unit to fight cyber-crime. we use the microsoft cloud to visualize information so we can track down the criminals. when it comes to the cloud, trust and security are paramount. we're building what we learn back into the cloud to make people and organizations safer. the uncertainties of hep c. i don't want to live with or wonder whether i should seek treatment. i am ready. because today there's harvoni. a revolutionary treatment for the most common type of chronic hepatitis c. harvoni is proven to cure up to 99% of patients... ...who've had no prior treatment. it transformed treatment as the first cure that's... ...one pill, once a day for 12 weeks. certain patients... ...can be cured with just 8 weeks of harvoni. harvoni is a simple treatment regimen that's been prescribed to more than a quarter of a million patients. tell your doctor if you've had a liver transplant, other liver or kidney problems, hiv, or any other medical conditions, and about all the medicines you take including herbal supplements. taking amiodarone with harvoni may cause a serious slowing of your heart rate. common side effects of harvoni may include tiredness, headache and weakness. i am ready to put hep c behind me. i am ready to be cured. are you ready? 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"reason" magazine editor matt welch has long been upset about her opposing free speech. >> hillary clinton unlike tipper gore has never been tarred with the brush as being a longtime foe of the first amendment and free speech. john: al gore's wife of the time trying to ban record lyrics, rap lyrics. >> talking about the filthy 15 songs. hillary clinton was working with tipper gore hand and hand but hillary clinton has much more power. gone against not only pop music, the internet, violent video games, all kinds of ways it's been a consistent theme of her career stretching back more than 25 years. in her book it takes a village, she praised bill bennett. not many are praising drug czar bill bennett. she praised him, he helped divest time warner from interscope records in the day, interscope records did a lot of gangsta rap, she talked about in quotation marks because it is filthy and wrong and we can't have. that she combines the worst of our dominant political tendencies when she talks about the media. john: she supported the telecommunications act which would have jailed people for pornography. >> yes, two years, if you are a parent of a kid and the kid happens to access pornography, you could go to the jail, that was struck down by the supreme court. john: it astonishes me that we had big campaigns against sex and violent video games and now, they're everywhere, with the internet, you can't stop it. the social consequences are zero. rape is down, violence is down, and people move onto the next thing. all you people who wanted to ban things are wrong. >> they're wrong about the evidence. as first lady in books and speech ethe evidence is in, we know kids are becoming more violent. she called them as programmable little vcr's, they absorb the content and commit acts of violence. this is wrong, actually. kids aren't getting more violent. much less violent over the last 20 years and hasn't adjusted or updated her rap at all. john: another layer of assaulting the free speech. hillary talking about internet censorship with one of her former employees who happens to host the morning show on abc news. she says we have to fight isis on the internet. >> we're going to need help from facebook and youtube and from twitter. they're going to have to help us take down these announcements and these appeals as quickly as they get up. john: so facebook is going to police the internet and take down that anything might be isis appeal? you bet, says hillary. >> we have to deny them online space. this is complicated. you're going to hear all of the usual complaint, freedom of speech, et cetera. like it's an icke thing. >> she said that in the same weekend within 24 hours of donald trump saying we have to shut down parts of the internet. the media only paid attention to trump's statement and not to hillary's. we have a culture of free speech under attack when. you have a government in the name national security in particular. she shifted from mass entertainment now, it's all gone into facebook, youtube and such like. she's after the benghazi situation, she blamed that on a filmmaker in sere theo, and the administration had the most power to -- her next theater of war on free speech is precisely the one where she has the most legal latitude. we should be very, very worried on encryption, on the open internet, on hate speech as it overlaps with terrorism. that's where she can have a drastic impact on the future of free speech in this country. john: the way she puts it, we must not allow this bad thing. people agree with it. >> sure. if you make an appeal to i'm going to make you safer, it makes sense. it doesn't make us safer. i'm married to an investigator. the best place for investigators to find bad guys is on facebook. they leave tracks. why would you push them offto another place. there is a magical back door that we can get into devices. as soon as government, which is not very competent, has one thing, that one thing is going to come under attack by chinese hackers and who knows who else? her actual measures she wants to adopt in the name of infringing free speech and keeping us safe will not make us safer in addition to make us less free. john: thank you, matt welch. 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[ laughter ] >> that was her comment when she may not have realized she was on camera. sort of creepy, he died. and much more bloodshed afterward. >> he was tortured, assaulted in a way, no matter what you think of gadhafi, ought to die in a lawful way if he's executed. not murdered by a mob. yeah, it's creepy, when the country collapsed into chaos which isn't good for humanitarianism or any ism you are trying to advance there. john: and helps advance isis. >> yeah, now we have isis presence in the eastern part of libya just as syria and iraq. other countries that have helped or are helping in sense to destabilize by overthrown, trying to overthrow the dictator who rules. it just overthrowing the dictator and saying we're not going to stick around as we did in libya is a terrible policy. it leads to chaos and room for terrorists. john: thank you, ben friedman of the cato institute. next, we went looking for good things about hillary. they weren't that easy to find. >> what do you like about hillary? 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>> somebody who's going to focus on the economy. john: focus on it by? >> she's going to do infrastructure spending which we need to do, we do need new energy jobs and create solar and other energy sources. >> why is it this infrastructure spending, the spending on green jobs, obama's done a ton of that. we have the slowest growth ever past a recovery. we have all these people not even looking for jobs. >> i think -- look, i think there have been a lot of jobs. i think 18 million jobs created, and i do think that we've got -- her focus on job training, on education, because right now -- john: we've got 46 government agencies doing job training. government can't do these things. when will you lefties learn that? >> the republicans did a bangup job the entire time they were in. come on. we've got real problems with the disruptive technology and changing economy, when kodak went bankrupt. it had 187,000 people lost their jobs, stossel. instagram sells itself to facebook for a billion dollars. it had 13 employees. that is going on. that's not the government doing that. you're right. you're talking about what's happening in this changing capitalist environment, and it is up to the government, i think, to help refocus the training people are preparing for. john: isn't government most likely to keep training people to make printing paper when it's no longer needed? >> companies are complaining every day they don't have the trained workforce for the jobs they have available. something like five or six million jobs that no one's prepared for. john: listening to people at the clinton rally, i'm struck by how many of her fans have no clue about what she doesn't support. >> what do you thi about hillary's views on drug legalization? >> like marijuana? people are going to do it anyways, so might as well make it legal because people are going to do it regardless. >> hillary doesn't support marijuana legalization. >> she doesn't? john: people don't know what she stands for. >> they're going to learn all the positions of both candidates. we're going to have five months of knockdown dragout, and one of the reasons i appreciate what we're doing is we're having a civil conversation without the ad hominem attacks. people need to know the candidates and decisions based on this conversation and not the unfortunately, the probably billions of dollars on both sides that are going to get spent nuking each other. john: and maybe i should be nuking you here. but thank you, joe trippi. coming up, my lunch with hillary clinton. also a peek at an upcoming movie that reveals how the clintons got so rich. >> 11 of the 13 speeches for which bill clinton has been paid half a million dollars or more occurred precisely when hillary was the most powerful diplomat in the world. ♪ [ tires screech ] flo: [ ghost voice ] oooo! 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no one knows exactly, but since bill left office, he's made more than $126 million in speaking fees. a new film called "clinton cash," everything is for sale, says bill got a lot of that money because people paid to get favors from hillary. before she became secretary of state, he got a little less than $200,000 per speech. >> something happened in late 2008, his speaking fees skyrocketed after he had been out of office for years. the reason was his wife had become secretary of state. in fact, 11 of the 13 speeches for which bill clinton has been paid half a million dollars or more occurred precisely when hillary was the most powerful diplomat in the world. john: suddenly got double or triple his previous speaking fees. that movie is based on the book "clinton cash." the author peter schweizer joins us now. really? speaking, the rules get changed. it's that clear? >> yeah, think about this, john. if somebody gave a politician or family member money directly for a favor, that's breaking the law. if you say it's a speaking fee and pay double or triple the normal rate that seems to be legal or deemed legal by some people. i think you see the rising rates to bill clinton after she becomes secretary of state is evidence that clearly the people paying him are expecting and hoping to get something in return. jo: and there was a pattern, this happened often? >> yes, happened often, and what you might expect. entities that had no interest in having bill clinton give a speech before his wife was secretary of state, suddenly she becomes appointed secretary of state, you have a friend of the president of nigeria who suddenly offers him $700,000 apiece for two speeches. investment firm in moscow tied to the kremlin who never paid him to speak giving him $500,000, again and again and again and get favorable action in return. >> the most outrageous is the swedish telecom case? >> ericsson is having big problems with the state department under hillary clinton because they have this habit of selling telecom equipment to repressive regimes in places like iran. ericsson decides in the midst of this, this would be a great time to sponsor a speech by bill clinton, never done so before. decided to go in big, $750,000 for a 20 minute speech. bill gives a speech and literally seven days later, the state department says we're not going to take further action against ericsson, we're going to ask them to police themselves. john: most of your film is about the clinton foundation, employees lots of friends of the clintons and raised $2 billion. the money is supposed to help people in need. >> after the earthquake in haiti, the clintons said our foundation will help. >> the aid is coming in, we're getting it out, just not enough of it, yet. >> hillary clinton's state department would oversee the reconstruction effort. the interest of major donees who are had invested interest in spending that money in haiti in ways that would benefit them. >> probably no one came out better in the haitian reconstruction effort than an irish billionaire named dennis obrian, a clinton foundation donor giving them between five and ten million dollars. john: o'brien owns a cell phone company called digcell. >> four weeks after the application, digicell sponsored a speech for bill clinton in jamaica and paid him $225,000. as it turns out, within four months of the speech, digicell would receive the first installment of the grant point. >> we're used to seeing scenarios where there is a crisis in the country, natural disaster in the developing world and aid and assistance never quite works out. what you have in this particular case is not only the aid is inefficiently spent but you have the added problem that some people made out very, very well as a result of earthquake and the common denominator seems to be they either sponsor speeches by bill clinton or major clinton foundation donors. john: were there people who made out well who didn't do either of the things? >> hard to find them. instances of people who had experience in reconstruction and dealing with disaster situations who went to haiti who didn't get contracts. >> your film points out the haitian government decided one person should get a permit to mine for gold in haiti. >> what company did they select to get the gold mining permit? a company called vcs mining, they had very little experience in gold mining, but what did they have? connections. shortly after they got concession, someone joined their board of directors. helped to be tony rodham, brother of hillary rodham clinton. john: i imagine they would say look, this was the haitian government giving out the grant. >> right, this is when bill clinton as the u.n. representative in haiti, hillary secretary of state are doling out hundreds of millions of dollars in grants, vcs mining where hillary clinton's brother is on the board. of all the companies out there, why did the haitian government pick this company? it has to do with the fact that the clintons are doling out so much money to the country. john: i assume you went to the companies? >> yes, we did. we didn't get much in the word of a response. what you get is it's a coincidence. i me, personally believe we need to follow the money and don't believe the clintons exist in a parallel universe. john: it could be coincidence. you can't prove it's a scandal. >> you're right. nobody is stupid enough to send an e-mail that says do this and we'll give you the money. it's the pattern of behavior. most people intuitively do it, right? if a politician shows up and gets a lot of money and the government takes action, the events are probably connected. john: thank you, peter schweizer. look forward to the final cut of the film. i'm on vacation, and who do i see? it's bill and hillary holding hands. we had lunch. i'll tell you what had her ignore me like this. next. i don't want to live with the uncertainties of hep c. or wonder whether i should seek treatment. i am ready. because today there's harvoni. a revolutionary treatment for the most common type of chronic hepatitis c. harvoni is proven to cure up to 99% of patients... ...who've had no prior treatment. it transformed treatment as the first cure that's... ...one pill, once a day for 12 weeks. certain patients... ...can be cured with just 8 weeks of harvoni. harvoni is a simple treatment regimen that's been prescribed to more than a quarter of a million patients. tell your doctor if you've had a liver transplant, other liver or kidney problems, hiv, or any other medical conditions, and about all the medicines you take including herbal supplements. taking amiodarone with harvoni may cause a serious slowing of your heart rate. common side effects of harvoni may include tiredness, headache and weakness. i am ready to put hep c behind me. i am ready to be cured. are you ready? ask your hep c specialist if harvoni is right for you. . john: i had lunch with hillary clinton, really. that happened. i was on the vacation at the caribbean island of angwilla. odmix of villas for rent, mostly by rich americans. one day several black suv's arrive, men in suits wearing earpieces got out. i asked another tourist what's that about? bill and hillary clinton may come to stay here, he said. we were on the beach and another tourist said it's not true, it's just a rumor, but few days later, more secret service men arrived and became clear a former president was vacationing there. we tourists then wondered are both bill and hillary going to be here? this was 2006. five years after bill left office. ten years after his affairs with monica and many others were revealed. hillary stood by him, but pundits said -- >> it is a political marriage. >> a political partnership and a business. >> a political business marriage? so on the beach, people ask who is here? is it bill alone? bill with hillary or with someone else? >> we got our answer a few hours later. there they were strolling down the beach. holding hands, gasped one tourist? is it just for show? who knows. they certainly acted as if they liked each other. my brother-in-law invited them to lunch. why did he think they would accept? he's a successful investor that squandered money on the democratic leadership council to bring people back to centrist economics. they were responsible democrats and bill sometimes was, so my brother-in-law helped bill get elected. by giving money. money. you know how the clintons are about money. our lunch invitation was quickly accepted. we would meet at this beach front restaurant. the clintons didn't know i would be there. at lunch, i sat next to hillary. she was perfectly nice, for a while, but being the pro vok tour that i am, i brought up a local controversy, chinese workers were sleeping in containers like these, four workers to a container. they moved during a real estate boom. this is why we need regulation, hillary told me. i pointed out the workers were not slaves, they had come voluntarily only because their alternatives in china must have been worse. also containers weren't totally horrible. today trendy americans brag about living in refurbished shipping containers. the chinese trailers weren't up to american standards but the standards hillary wants would have raised costs that would eliminate opportunities and some of the workers would have never gotten the chance to leave china and try to raise their standard of living. our well-intended rules often create nasty unintended consequences. after western media complained bangladeshi workers were abused in sweatshops, many were closed. good said the critic, we stopped the abuse. the child workers who lost their jobs ended up on the streets and some became prostitutes. hillary replied, i heard about that study, but most regulation improves living conditions. this is zoning rules, affirmative action, licensing, she went on and on. she still does that. >> americans need a raise. that's why we must raise the minimum wage. guarantee equal pay for women! [cheers] >> and so on and so on. back at our lunch, i responded i'm a libertarian and -- >> i know who you are, she snapped. john: and we were off. i give her credit, she argued with me for a full half hour. she had enough and turned away from me, talked to others and ignored near the rest of the meal. here's my point. hillary's wish to regulate chinese workers' sleeping arrangements is a bad case of lawyers's disease, like most politicians she assumes problems are best solved with new rules. she doesn't notice that most new rules create new problems, worse problems, they kill jobs, they take away opportunity altogether. no, i don't want to live in one of these trailers but by saying no one can, that prevents some people from improving their lives. in the late 1800's, many americans lived in one room homes made of grass and mud. should that have been banned? in china, most try to live on a buck or two a day. many chinese people were able to come here when. this woman's family arrived, they had no money. because they were able to live cheaply, now they have a big grocery store. this is how life progresses, if politicians don't constantly interfere. clearly, hillary is eager to interfere, electing her will put america further down the road to serfdom. that's the show. see you next week.