for many, god is the explanation others say it is a very tail. >> where ever there is a gaap. >> we have an open mind. >> science asks questions. what about bill nye "the science guy"? "science vs. god"? tonight. john: i am out of my element. i like to talk about what i know, research, understand. "science vs. god"? i am over my head. we bribing guests who think and fight about this lot. what created by? i thought there was a big bang the universe was a single tiny point* until there was an explosion of energy then life grew. smart people are convinced that is the way it went down. but did god cause the big bang? how did humans have been? is there the intelligent design? yes says dinesh d'souza up. michael shermer says no. how do know? >> hi cannot be certain there is no god but reasonably confident an apology, religion, psychology shows people invent guide to explain causality. wiser storms, accidents comment people die, hunter-gatherer's through the modern world, hammons construct a guide to explain things. different gods, religions, but what are the chances that 999 others are false and this is the one true god or they are all social be constructed? >> when rethink of god you can think of but tall mountain. we stand at the base. we see littlto be terry's of the information and the religion is to call what is at the top. day all look the same direction. i would say all the religions are correct. john: what is the evidence? >> in france to an explanation how i got here. you can take michael's explanation there's all the material things but that is a leap of faith assuming there is only material things and nothing else. >> natalee buffet eighth but a level of confidence gained 500 years of science consistently finding causes of the fact to displace religion as the mechanism to explain. >> is its assumption was that is all there is? >> because it works. >> god works. people believe because it works. john: they were ignorant with no other explanation for leaving. >> maybe for ancient man religious knowledge can progress. science says we can get smarter over time by religious people don't know the judge them from 10,000 years. john: religion doesn't change. >> tre is the evolution to monotheism but what religious people learnrom other knowledge. the bible says god made the universe and demand but does not say how. i can learn from evolution, the big bank it is to fill out. john: the bible says seven days but from the third 1/4 century christians believe that refers to the era. john: he has been on the topic debating the priest and people e mailed to say you should not have on but priest but an apologist. it turns out that is someone who argues why there is a god. >> it means to give the defense not to make an apology or repenting. apologetics is done on end reason alone not scripture or revelation that leaves room for a skeptical attitude toward the world. john: let's bring in two scientist. ian hutchinson teaching nuclear physics and lawrence krauss who was an atheist. and asserts the universe came from nothing. >> absolutely. is god necessary? is there evidence? >> you don't need god to create something from nothing natural law does that all the time. the ancient distinction have now been changed or thrown out by science. there is no evidence there is any purpose to the universe. it is not rational but as michael suggested to force your believes to reality than the other way around. john: ian hutchinson as a professor of nuclear science you look at the evidence? you are confident there is a god? i a his book does offer a universe free of god more from nothing but offers from the laws of physics. i would hope as a fellow physicist would agree there is nothing. john: why do think there is intelligent design? >> what convinces me the most is t resurrection and life of jesus christ that is evident. it is not scientific evidence it unisys that is the only evidence you will listen to then you will rule out a religion but also a whole host of other types of the human knowledge. >> y are convinced by the resurrection but it certainly isn't it normally rising from the dead is not consistent with biology. you are convinced but what a evidence it had been? >> it is about miracles. john: water into wine. >> tammy say it is always and everywhere with no exception? >> >> from no amount of empirical generalization can you draw a conclusion true as logic. you don't know a star goes that way. >> we assume. >> we measure but the plate in knitted is directly related to speed of light. john: that is to wky for me. [laughter] you believe people are a good because of religion? >> no. there is universal morality but think of how people learn morality from christianity and judaism and hinduism. >> kriet the problem with the resurrection. jesus was the son of god and in card it also? monotheist? bejeezus is lowered. to be saved god sacrificed himself to himself to save at us from himself this sounds and comprehensible. >> barking mad? >> we have to 1/2 billions -- 2.5 billion christians one-third of the people are barking mad? >> the logic is not the pele. >> the of the people did not accept jesus. >> this is my point* is one thing to said a bunch of texans 18 and -- drinking piercing ufo is out of their mind but the human race is nuts? >> we are hard wired to believe we have created god from the time we are human and as the scientist we have an expiment we want to believe but we have to check. most of the time it is not. john: newton >> they were products of their time wdon't talk of newton because of christianity which was barking mad but the science he produced it affected our universe. is gone into the dustbin of history. i cnnot disprove that miraes happen and the whole universe created 15 seconds ago and we were created by the memories but it is not rational. is irrational. >> i think science teaches us what stupendoustupendou s at one time was not at another time. to make a blind man sees seems preposterous. what about 100 years andow we could make blind people see? now that is not so preposterous. we are prisoners of current knowledge and it seems unthinkable. >> i get paid eight to think about what we don't understand. there are limits t our knowledge. we have an open mind. we have not assume to the answer which is a difference between science and religion. >> we think feigns are irrational. i can accept that you don't believe these things and you might have thought about it but to be irrational or craziness one 1/3 of the royal believes event it is a way to end the debate. >> it is not about theology but weird human beings thrown into the world to say why is there a world? where are we going after read dae? don't have a clue. this is the domain of religion that science has nothing to say. >> we wrote a book about how the universe came but not why. john: you are comfortable with when you die in this@ over? >> absolutely. what is it like befe you were born? the same thing. john: of the don't have time to settle this. coming up. bill nye "the science guy" has strong opinions and what your kids should be taught. coming up. ♪ there is no mass-produced human. every human being is unique. and there is one store that recognizes it. the sleep nuer store. the only place in the world you'll find the extraordinarily comfortable sleep number experience. an exclusive collection of innovations that totally individualize your sleep. perfectly comfortable pillows that adjust to your size and shape. temperature-balancing bedding. dual warmth comforters. all designed around the sleep number bed: a bed with dual-air technology that allows you to adjust to the support your body needs. each of your bodies. in the name of human individuality: the sleep number collection. discover how our sleep professionals can individualize your sleep experience. exclusively at one of our 400 sleep number stores nationwide. sleep number. comfort individualized. thisoliday season, give the gift that's magical: the innovative airfit adjustable pillow at special 30% savings. john. >> hallowed does life get started? word is evolution begin? ancient earth was covered with the notion 3 billion years ago. it was primordial soup that things got started in. john: bill nye "the science guy" he did it video that said grown-ups if you want to do nine evolution live in the world and consistent with what we live in but don't make your kids do it. that got people's attention. it inspired believers in creationism to do their own videos. bill nye maybe you are. you cannot know for sure? >> you can sure it -- show it is a real thing and that the earth's is sought 10,000 years old. i don't go after anybody's religion but we cannot use tax dollars intended for science education to teach it is 10,000 years old as the alternative to the observable fact. in this inappropriate. john: use a your world becomes fantastically complicated if you don't believe in evolution. >> when i dig up ancient dinosaur bones or fossils you ask too much especially of a kid who has critical thinking skills of serving their world, you asked to much. it is inconsistent with what we observed. john: half of americans come a 46% believe god created human beings out over the last dozen years of. >> that i have a as an educator. evolution is observable and repeatable and a powering. it gives perspective of our place in space. that we are one of the ways the universe comes to know itself part of that is wonderful. the process of science science, learn about nature, the best idea i humans had. two questions. very to recover from? are we alone? where do we come from? everybody asks those questions would you pursue that you make discoveries evolution is one of them. john: the big bang. i believe it happens. >> the evidence is overwhelming. john: but no sparc that created life. like can't that be god? >> you cannot prove the negati to prove that it is not. but the earth is not 10,000 years. agent dinosaurs walked the earth 65 million years ago. it is not top-downn the drawing board to see that organisms are created but it is bottom-up when the life gets going it creates mutations that lead to us so if nike said once again going. other than look-alike a scions nerd with the bow tie? >> i encourage people to wear them. they don't slip into your soup. you examine the evidence. as a critical thinker to work scientifically, to argue there are words translated that serve as a science text is not satisfactory to me. if you want to claim god started life 3.5 billion years went byt is difficult to disprove. if you say the years is only 10,000 years old that could be strongly not proven. we don't do teach that to the engineers of the future as an alternative to the fax 57 bill nye "the science guy." if you are religious and believe the morning ter pill i is murder what gives the government there right to force y to pay for that? next. john: if you are religious you like the believe life begins at conception that a life is created by god and man ends a life is murder. what about obamacare? in requires employers to pay for contraception including the morning after pill. if forces employers to pay for what they think is murder. that is not the way to think about it. note? >> first of all, employers3 enforced to give birth control. the health-insurance plan has to cover certain things paid for by the premium the insurance company is giving health care. >> it requires to fund contraception. >> you know, how many people are in support of this idea? 70%. >> i accept that but so what? it is 90% is not the tyranny of majority you thk it is mortar you have to enable it? >> you are providing health care and that is it. >> people want to run a business. >> this does not involve? >> they will say i heard you have a boyfriend annual be fired because you have premarital sex. john: this guy starts a company he has his principles he does not have the right to say you stand on in your head or don't work here? >> obamacare is the law to require health insurance. john: you are comfortable to make sure when men get services government is right to impose this? >> it is a prescription medication finish should be provided by the employer. john: what is the reasoning? >> it is a prescription it is part of health care. condoms are not covered by obamacare. they never will be. >> the birth control pills right next to condoms and i'll four you will not have the problem. john: but it government tells everybody what to do what of the next government is religious conservativeo say no company can pay for contraception? >> when people talk of the culture war it is presented as you have religious conservatives imposing morality. the those imposing their morality say it is the cultural left i have to find planned parenthood and the morning after pill. as a conservative jewish, a christian all our muslim the. >> if you are conservative are you a fiscal liberal because of plant for eight -- pregnancy ct cost 12 billion per year from the brookings institute. so then you say no birth control because i am a moral conservative but it cost taxpers money. >> this is an argument i am a catholic and to understand why government should not be eight in these details. than government pays for it then gives t excuse you cannot eat the doughnut or smokeless cigarette. to say maybe government should not play any aspect. >> they cost $10 a month. >> barbara streisand could pay for everybody's go. >> this is not about $10 per month is just like viagra or oxycontin. citic nobody elsehould be forced to pay for that. john: they pay for viagra? >> is the prescription health plan. >> why not? ear not telling you what you can or cannot. i created the business if you don't like it don't work for me. that is freedom. >> i don't want you to take your heart medicine. >> you don't have a right to your emppoyer's moy whether they are allowed to say you cannot take birth control at all but to say what should the employer be forced to pay for? if y want to pay in cash incentive contraception. >> this is through the health plan list in my the employer is forced to pay for the health plan. >> employers -- employees pay premiums. >> but employers don't want to pay for premiums that cover contraception we have a growing family we don't want to buy that you make us pay for the plan that cove contraception for everybody. if my a uproot station play was to provide that plan should be up to the employer you not have a right to to his money. >> it is the ignorant argument to say contraception is only because you don't want to have a child. people take birth control because of terrible cramping john: that is true. they should pay for it themselves were barbra streisand and. tim carney. timmer a holder. timmer a holder. my struggles. [poignant country music] ♪ ♪ remember when ♪ we vowed the vows and walked the walk ♪ ♪ and gave our hearts ♪ made a start and it was hard ♪ ♪ we lived and learned ♪ life threw curves ♪ there was joy, there was hurt ♪ ♪ remember when ♪ ♪ remember when ♪ we said when we turned gray ♪ ♪ when the children ♪ grow up and move away ♪ we won't be sad ♪ we'll be glad ♪ for all the life 've had ♪ and we'll remember when ♪ ♪ remember when >> religious americans scientist has told me there is no conflict between science and religion. i think there must be but science has made great advances where nine out of 10 people say they believe then god. what about islam? the movies made great strides in science the invented the nd bill, algebra, hygiene and medicine but that was about one dozen years ago lately progress has stalled because muslim fundamentalism is hostile. let's ask nidal guessoum who teaches astrophysics in the united arab emirates and flew here today because you want to clear it up? >> and issue that needs to be cleared science has established a new paradigm with the idea of god and spirit and work out as if there is no god. john: science is separate. >> muslims in particular find the idea distressing. in the tradition of islam the contemplation of the world is supposed to not prove god but show you there is glory, a plan, all-purpose. to do science as if god is not there but then pray has not been worked out to the islamic mine said. john: christian world people are troubled. one georgia congressman says everything i was taught water lives from the pits of hill -- bit of hell but we were taught to advances from scientist. >> the muslim world went through decline and disintegration comment illiteracy in the west there was the separation of church and state that in the muslim world is hard to digest. john: you invented algebra, the wind will then stop? >> not immediately. it took time empire goes up and down the roman empire, uh the greek empire, muslim did the same. is economical, political, and then europe tipoff with the scientific and industrial revolution then within half a century the muslim world was we behind. john: was some fundamentalist criticize science because it is western. >> is true because of logical evolution the big bang theory, list of some research come in theadius that are disturbing and many muslims say this is from the west we don't have to take it. john: what is it like a your university teaching physics? >> there is a balance between modern education, not western. but heritage between the air of/muslim to instill so they grow up with a balanced mind and personality. john: 80% of muslim do not want evolution taught. >> they reject it and some say if you teachit as a series quote-unquote as a western scientists explain it it is okay. 80% rejected 50 percent don't teach it the other 50% teach it but it is not true as but necessary, evolution is taught in many parts of the world. all schools in egypt. even the teachers tell the students we teach you this but we don't believe it. it is a problem to explain people it does not have to be atheistic. hopefully it will work out. john: nidal guessoum what was the world without god some juice! woman: it's gonna be good! she's excited. little bit of kale. please don't put this online. woman: i'm putting it all over the line! it's wet. it nes something. no, it'll go. woman: don't break my juicer! looks good. you ready to try it? woman: come on, baby! announcer: challenge your kids to be active and eat healthy. it's ok. it's ok! all right! announcer: they might surprise you. she took another sip. you saw it? announcer: search "we can" for more ideas on how you and your kids can get healthy together. ♪ john: in that song john lennon suggested there was no religion we would live in harmony. given the people kied in the crusade of fully war he has a point*. billions were murdered radius. between 60 and 100 billion taka out hitler and mao and stalin. larry taunton says it is because the board neediest. you don't know that. >> the way the russian novelist blooded if there is no mortality there can be no virtue if there is no guide if anything goes to yuki and get away with. that was the driving force behind the communist regime. >> i am not convinced there is a guide but i try to do good things god does not play into it. >> it does not mean it always equals genocide. john: i am agnostic. [laughter] >> but these where states at a governmental level instituted 87. john: from the top down this is not big government is dictators it did not matter if they were religious or not to. >> i think big government is part of the problem but if you believe nobody judges your actions of this life it removes thencentive for good behavior to see your fellow man as nothing more than an accident of space and time. john: what about the crusers? >> many evil things have been done in the name of religion and science but we don't say science is evo. not all religion is evil but those dead in the name of christ were not consistent with christ teachings. so the religion was hijacked just as the eugenics movement hijacked science. john: your book argues good things spread? >> when there is a significant presence of christians in a culture culture, specifically christianity, there is a reciprocally effect. more care for the poor, elderly, sick, or friend -- or fined. john: it is a remarkable amount. >> is. of the average person that calls themselves a question which is a high number gives three times as much money and time to charity the average evangelical gives 10 times as much with it entire culture you understand why and country is there's absence of a vibrant church also a lack of concern for the board did jesus calls the least of these. john: the declaration of evident -- declares independence all manner created equal the only way it makes state -- makes sense if man is in doubt of his creator. >> it only makes sense within a christian context what about the equality of man? >> is right. >> the weatherization would have that view to say outside of the west we believe that because we are heavily influenced by judeo-christian thought this social, the physical, intellectual asset inequalies so the statement means in a spiritual sense, then i art equal which makes sense if there is only a guide. john: larry taunton. my personal struggle coming my personal struggle coming up.úúúúúúúúúúúúúúúúúúúúúúúúúúúúú ♪musicú ♪the more i search0forú my significance,♪ ♪seems0r ♪and0i0ú a0difference♪ ♪in anyú i've been0here♪ ♪and0i0ú laughter♪ ♪it's tp i've ever knownp♪ ♪i0don'ú happensp♪ ♪but i0e ♪and0i0h in you♪ john: i believe in science. i above what it gives us. television. longer lives. my ancestors ran around naked in the cold an struggled to keep the fire going. most died before the age of 40. science gives us a better life. of things we can touch. religion? not much. i wish i believed in god but i don't. there may be bought by a not convinced. i was raised protestant comment studied the bible then i discoveredy ancestors were jewish and study the tora but i did not get there. high of one to believe i see the piece that brings in many of you. most of you according to the polls. added about this show. i envy you if you believe. research shows religious people are happier than the rest of us. you could go to religious services and social networks bring new friends which brings happiness. i suspect it is more. be leaving brings you joy, purpose, a peace. good for you. religion has led people to do awful things the aztecs killed thousands to appease the god. the sun god needed daily nourishment. inanans strangled people the crusaders killed hundreds of thousands and massachusetts the pilgrim setup but religious police state to kill witches and islamic jihad has killed millions and they are not done. religion makes me nervous. i have to say late may christians have stopped pretty much killing people and religious people do make the role better. you do more for others. catholic schools teach the same low income kids but they do better job at a fraction of the cost. you e more likely to donate money and time to other organizations and more likely to donate blood. ibp boggling