all they can do is gobble up the money and make excuses for systemic failures. government breakdown. that's tonight. this is "the independents." hi there i'm kennedy, hostess, along with the unflappable "reason" editor in chief matt welch and a man who reads more books than the library. kmele foster from freethink media and together we are "the independents." president isn't the only one plagued by scandals as question so much government. congress is despised, the va is unmanageable and every institution is burstinga the seams. the agency that is supposed to keep superbugs from invading our shores is too busy wasting money in resources telling people how much salt we should put on steaks. do the agencies overextend themselves? and how can you refocus the behemoth in the middle of colossal breakdowns. glenn reynolds is the editor at "instapundit."com, and how multi-tasking may put many at risk for contracting a deadly disease like ebola. glenn, welcome back to "the independents." >> thanks for having me back. love it here. kennedy: couple days ago we heard about the tragic death of thomas duncan, the man in dallas who succumbed to dallas, diagnosed with the disease in this country, he caught it in liberia. what has the cdc done so far that has either put us at risk or shown that the agency is too big and can fail? >> well, i mean, the whole thing was bungled. you know earlier on, he got past health authorities in liberia through the lying, there was no check when he got to the united states, he went to a hospital complaining of symptoms and was sen home. despite telling them he was coming from liberia. then when he got back, the ambulance picked him up, took no precautions, he was throwing up, there was vomit everywhere, not very well cleaned up. once he was in the hospital, his family was stuck in the apartment where the bedings and linens were saturated with ebola virus for a couple of days before they moved them to a quarantined place. so all of the stuff that when they're doing budget hearings, they talk about how they're going to save us from the next deadly disease, none of that stuff appeared. none of the guys in hazmat suits and the inflatable tunnels like "e.t." it was just the usual bungling. >> glenn, your column, reiterates the phrase you had one job, it is called the center for disease control. what are some of the jobs that it is doing that it should not? >> they're spending a lot of time looking at playground safety, agitating to get back into the business of firearm safety studies which congress blocked them from doing, what they're producing is politicized junk science. they are as kennedy said worrying about how much salt we're putting on steak and drinking sugary sodas. maybe that is important, i don't tend to think that it is. they're the centers for disease control. they have a major job, which is to protect us from major infectious disease outbreaks. >> glenn, you are saying the glut of responsibilities, the accumulation of various objectives is universal throughout government. is there a way to make organizations like the cdc run and operate effectively, even a thorough going libertarian like myself can acknowledge there ought to be a role for government in trying to manage natural disasters or outbreaks of pandemics? >> i wish i could give you an answer to that, but mission creep is a standard bureaucratic problem, you hope the congressional oversight committees will prune the undergrowth every now and then. they don't seem good at it. the best thing you can do is make a big stink as they screw up like they've done here. when you talk about shrinking government, people say you must be in favor of infectious disease raging out of control and roads not being built. >> i do that all the time. >> they spend it on something else. >> is there an example that you can point to, a successful government reform and redefining of a mission, i hear people pointing to the military after the debacles of vietnam and the draft reshaping itself. there are good examples out there? >> the military is one good example. one example of a successful policy under the obama administration is in the space area, while nasa hasn't done especially well, they have shifted a lot of stuff to the private sector and we have the booming new companies, spacex and x cor and a bunch of others, taking off, literally, and obama doesn't care about space, maybe more neglect is what we need. kennedy: he doesn't seem to care about a lot. and apathy is not the main reason for governmental breakdown but adds to it. we talk about governmental breakdown it's not just the u.s. government. a big problem with ebola is the world health organization in africa. you know, the africa portion of the u.n.'s health arm let part of the world down, number one, and number two, there are those who claim that there is, and i know this is hard for people to believe because they want to give into hysteria right now, there are countries trying to profit off of a threat inflation so they get more money. >> sure, and you know what's the world health organization been doing the past week? they were having an international meeting to argue for global tax on tobacco. so you know, that's their mission creep. their job is supposed to protect us, there's a polio outbreak in pakistan, ebola in africa. malaria is roaring back and they want tax on tobacco. a tax brings in money, that's what they want. >> you and i got to know each other after 9/11, and the response to it was to centralize, make a department of homeland security, get a tsa and bunch of government employees. how come we never have the instinct to not centralize in the face of a calamity? >> yeah, it's funny, i wrote a bunch of columns right after 9/11 writing for fox and saying more layers of bureaucracy is not the solution to a problem created by layers of bureaucracy that didn't do their jobs, that seems to be the instinct. we created tsa, a debacle, the department of homeland security has been a debacle. and pumped huge amounts of money into the cdc to protect us against bioterrorism and outbreaks of disease, i'm waiting to see the value for that. yeah, you know, it's funny, the old british empire used to create a lean operation, somehow they managed to rule most of the world. maybe we need to put everyone on a diet. kennedy: from the cdc to the military, our bureaucrats are bloated and i blame all the salty steaks. glenn reynolds, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> the cia hates congress and wants more money and more power, but there's been a breakdown from the top down. we'll talk with a former agent on what went wrong and how that puts us all at risk? 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>> i think it went through such a difficult change, the cia was used to operating a certain way for so long, and it didn't really need to change, after 9/11, everything changed and the cia had a harder time to adapting because it was a little antiquated and having a real challenge doing that. >> you talk about having a cold war mentality that the cia was founded on after world war ii. you can describe operationally what that means today, the vestiges of the cold war mentality as it's practiceed? >> sure, when you go through training at the farm, the cia training facility, it's a lot of more cold war techniques, you have a lot of officers, which is the old guard, the old school, and they're training you, that was the mentality, and the cold war, the enemies, the russians and that's what you know. and things have obviously changed and we're learning how to really adapt and how do you spy and work with a different enemy? a new enemy? it's a real challenge how to do that. how do you recruit. kennedy: you make a really good point, the world was so much more convenient for government agencies, when we existed in black and white, us versus them. the good guys versus the bad guys, we're seeing with isis that there are alliances and groups that are interchanging, it's very confusing. is the cia capable of gathering the kind of intelligence necessary to win the war on terror? >> you know, they're going to have to be, and that will be the struggle because they're going to have to adapt and going to have to change, otherwise we're going to lose the war. >> emily, another holdover from the cold war era is obsession with secrecy. we talk a lot about secrecy even now, the cia is involved in a number of different military programs. how do you balance this presumed need for secrecy with the necessary need for transparency and accountability as well? >> well, it's hard because you have, again, this older, old school mentality where everything was need to know, need to know, need to know, and now, more of our policymakers have a need to know, and the cia was used to working in a bubble and used to having a lot more autonomy, because the scandals are coming out, they can't work in the same way, and they're going to have to be transparent and loosen their grip. there is a paranoia out there, within the agency as well, what if the secrets come out. there's a lot of overclassification on information that doesn't need to be classified. and i think they need to loosen the reins a little bit and find when they do that, they have a lot better cooperation with our partners within the intelligence services. >> and within congress, if congress feels like it's spied on by the cia, that's problematic, not only for the agency but for the rest of us, because at some point it's going to compromise what the agency is supposed to do, it's not soviet russia, we live in america. emily, thank you so much. >> thank you so much. appreciate it. kennedy: absolutely. congress is so unpopular, given the choice most americans would prefer a magic 8 ball over the marbled clown car, that is capitol hill. one representative escaped the imperial swamp. he tells us what is wrong with congress? that's next. so ally bank really has no hidden fees on savings accounts? that's right. it's just that i'm worried about you know "hidden things..." ok, why's that? no hidden fees, from the bank where no branches equals great rates. . kennedy: new data shows congress has an 11.8% approval rating. woo! i can smell that from here. all they want to do is sit around and fight and blame the koch brothers, do the house and senate properly function? let's ask a man who got out. thaddeus mccotter, author of "liberty risen, the ultimate triumph of libertarian republicans." thad, let's talk about your days in the house. did the house function as ineffectively as it does now? >> i had the pleasure of serving with john dingell, the gentleman who served longest of any person in the house. kennedy: longer than strom thurmond? >> john was in the house his whole career. he would talk about in the old days, they could talk, it was never personal and the jets and everyone else came. they were more free agents, individualistic and never have time for each other. they would always be going back and forth and as the media increased, it led to the total breakdown between the aisle and the caucus itself. >> some of that crazy libertarian response means great, that means they're not going to cooperate and give me a trillion dollar farm bill, and the moments of comedy and tip o'neill after-hours. kennedy: like deficits. >> can you tell us practical impacts beyond, that creates dysfunction when people are sordid like that? >> means you get bitten on both cheeks. [ laughter ] >> of your face. kennedy: thank you for the qualification. >> but, if i may answer his question, we live in the internet age, congress right now is a hierarchical institution that insulates itself from the changes around it and surely wants to be pyramid rather than horizontal. the ability of individual members to get together regardless of which side of the aisle they're on can make a fixed institution itself to make a representative of people who live in these times. as opposed to to congress who lives wherever the hell they've been. in the absence of structural change within the institution means the absence of structural change within government itself and how it directly affects the american people. >> do you think it affects the american people more than say some of the other institutions we're talking about here tonight, whether it's the cia, the va, the cdc, what is it about congress that is more effective? >> well, the bureaucracy is the most insulated ironically by operation of law to protect them from politics, one of the progressive era exists, it's a tech nok -- technocracy, legislation can be changed and easily be changed by the people you send there. you're going to get it on both cheeks. >> a good column last week talking about how the idea was always that we should -- congress would love their own power, but, in fact, they're not so concerned with the exercise of power anymore, they're concerned with perks for themselves. the struggle for the executive branch has dissipated, thereby undoing the framer's intent, do you think that's a good analysis? >> the analysis is they want the perpetuation of power, it's not about the perks, they do, especially the true believers on the republican side and the democratic side want the power to somehow change america for what they believe to be the better vision. kennedy: i believe a lot of people who were first elected believe, that they start out with good intentions but are corrupted along the way. >> that's what gets to you sleep at night. it becomes the perpetuation of power. in absence of vision for the american people, you say day to day transactional politics. james mcgregor burns in his book defined transactional leadership or transformational leadership, we're not seeing transformational leadership, we were promised it in 2008. kennedy: and then some. >> and then some. the machinations of politics, there is no collaboration to reach a common destination and the public is frustrated, nothing is done and you see the tribal warfare amongst the caucuses and approval ratings tank. kennedy: is the only way to get things done to have one party control, both houses or the presidency? >> i don't know, i like to refer to the cross currents of globalization and the communications revolution, and you see this in the nsa, where you see a strange amalgam across the aisle of people who support it, people who oppose it. you're going to continue to see that. i continue to see a time when the younger member, gen-x and the millennials who are in tune with what's going on, will find the battles, the turf wars and the standard arguments to be no longer operative and especially continue to face challenges, mounting as they do, to critical proportions, crisis level, they're going to be more engaged in how to restructure a 19th century bureaucratic government to meet the needs of a 21st century. kennedy: like education, you laid out the problems with so many in the branch of government. last question, do you want to go back to congress. >> no. kennedy: thank you so much. former fema director michael brown joins us to talk about katrina. has fema cleaned up its act since 2005? the government breakdown continues. keeping a billion customers a year flying, means keeping seven billion transactions flowing. and when weather hits, it's data mayhem. but airlines running hp end-to-end solutions are always calm during a storm. so if your business deals with the unexpected, hp big data and cloud solutions make sure you always know what's coming - and are ready for it. make it matter. when folks think about wthey think salmon and energy. but the energy bp produces up here creates something else as well: jobs all over america. engineering and innovation jobs. advanced safety systems & technology. shipping and manufacturing. across the united states, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs. when we set up operation in one part of the country, people in other parts go to work. that's not a coincidence. it's one more part of our commitment to america. 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[ applause ] biotene -- for people who suffer from dry mouth. . kennedy: hey there, welcome back to "the independents." hurricane katrina considered to be one of the worst natural disasters in american history and was a political disaster for then president george w. bush who saw his presidency and legacy swirl down the storm drain, but at the time, there was plenty of praise to go around. >> i want to thank you all for, and brownie, you're doing a heck of a job. kennedy: michael brown joins us, the former fema director and hosts the michael brown show on 630 khow in denver. thank you for joining us. >> good to see you three, how are you doing? . kennedy: i can speak for all three of us, we are doing quite well! did you take too much blame for hurricane katrina? do you think that you were somehow scapegoated and do you wake up with george w. bush's words saying you did a heck of a job ringing in your head every morning? >> usually don't until i come on the programs and you play that sound bite. i will hear it tonight when i go to bed. there's a two part answer to that question that, yes, in terms of the politics of how washington, d.c. works, yeah, i got scapegoated, i got thrown under the bus. they the way things work. what the american public ought to understand is that because of this massive reorganization, the largest reorganization in the federal government's history since truman did the pentagon in 1947, fema suddenly found itself underneath this huge bureaucracy, what would take us a couple of minutes to accomplish was now taking sometimes two or three hours two, or three days because of that additional layer of bureaucracy. and it just, it was the melding of the two kinds of cultures that didn't work, and i want to give you some examples of that. what do we hear about in the news right now? secret service morale is down, and they've got all the problems. they're one of the agencies thrown into the hs, immigrations customs enforcement, low morale, they don't have the money, why? they were thrown into dhs, and when you try to do the massive reorganization of different cultures that don't match one another, you are inevitably going to have the ability of the bureaucracy to be swift and nimble like fema was, it inherently becomes more cumbersome. kennedy: unfortunately it broke down under your watch, has fema improved since? has craig fugate done a better job? >> i'm not convinced they can ever do a better job as long as the dhs monolith is on top of it. the cato institute said the smartest thing washington can do is dismantle dhs and put the agencies back to where they were. prior to march 3, 2003, fema was the honest broker in the federal government. and by, that you know how it works. fema had the checkbook, so fema could turn to dod or dot or cabinet level agencies and say we need to you do x, there was never a question that x would do done because fema was speaking on behalf of the president and with the disaster relief fund, those agencies that had their own priorities and their own budgets knew that what fema was asking for was not going to impact that. what you see today is you still have the stafford act that for fema to ask dod for blackhawk helicopters, that has to go from the fema cfo to the dhs cfo to the dod cfo and the guy in the field and by that time you wasted hours when minutes count. >> michael, do you think there is original sin here dating back to hurricane andrew 20 years ago where we federalized disaster response to an alarming degree in this country, where we know from social science and environmental science that the best response is always the most local response or the best information. hurricane sandy here was an incredible -- everyone was waiting for the feds to come in instead of taking care of their own. do you think we overfederalized on on disaster response. >> i'm not trying to blow smoke up your skirt, have you done your homework. that is exactly the problem. the more you rely on the federal government, whether fema or another organization, you inherently weaken the counterparts at the state and local level. there is a natural tendency when something bad happens, the white house is under tremendous pressure to approve it because governors asked them to approve it, when you turn it down, there's political hell to pay. so yes, we have pushed everything up the ladder to fema which inherently begins to weaken the response at the local level. let me give you an example. during my tenure i handled 166 presidentially declared disasters. during the five or six years, there were properly thousands of disasters fema never got involved in, why? it was the responsibility of state and local government. so fema's job then was how can we better train local governments? get them the right kind of equipment? that sort of thing. governors have figured it out. ask fema, there is the political pressure, vul one congressman, two u.s. senators, you always have one governor involved in every single disaster, that's an amazing amount political power to get the feds to do something. >> one more quick question here, this pertains to policy related to natural disasters. we have programs like federal flood insurance, and we've seen a string of continually devastating, economically speaking natural disasters. do you think policy played a role in sort of perpetuating that problem, specifically programs like federal flood insurance? and was that part of the problem with the situation in katrina? >> i'm not so sure it was part of the situation in katrina. the problem with katrina just as a side bar was really the corruption at the local level that did not take care of the levees as they should have, plus all of the issues of federalizing and who's in charge, who's going to order an evacuation? obviously we couldn't do it posse comitatus, but to your point, policies and other programs have taken the risk out of individuals, look, i think people ought to live where they want to live. if you want to live on miami beach, live on miami beach. if you want to live like i do in the mountains of colorado in a national forest, you should be able to do that. i should assume the risk doing that. when the government says gee, sorry your house burned down, insurance pays $100,000. we'll chip in another $100,000 to help you build your home. have you taken away the risk factor. there is no longer market forces to make people think, okay, i'm going to live next to the national forest. i'm going to make sure i'm prepared. kennedy: it is a natural structure, mike brown, thank you for joining us. >> my pleasure. thanks, guys. >> you did a heck of a job. i'm not going to lie. before edward snowden there was william binney who saw the collision course with constitutional disaster before sweet edward had bicycle dragged out of the shower. has he been vindicated? 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tell us about that program, and when did you see that there was something systemically very wrong at the spy agency? >> well, i think it first started the second week in october of 2001, when they started the program stellar wind which was domestic spying, and that meant they were taking in phone call data, the billing data for example of phone calls on everybody in the united states. plus they were taking in digital network material which only expanded over time. that meant e-mails, chatter on the internet. queries on the internet using google and other programs to search. all kind was technical data and mining things from the banks and various other information about u.s. citizens having transactions with other u.s. citizens. something of course the 4th amendment prohibits unless have you probable cause and name each and every individual you are going after, their data, and why, so -- that's what i saw. >> i wonder what you make of the current situation, the current lant scape. we've had a robust conversation among the citizens about the nsa and the president and the president pledged to discontinue the program. what are the reforms being discussed some of which have not materialized. but what do you make of all that? >> i think they do virtually nothing to stop the nsa from doing what they are doing. keep in mind, they're not doing domestic spying and collection of data on u.s. citizens for analysts in the nsa to do foreign intelligence, they're doing it to collect the data or the fbi and the dea and dha and other government agencies can look into the data and make decisions on their part like law enforcement and so on, use that data to arrest people and not use it in the courts. it's violating the rights of u.s. citizens and it's destroying our entire foundation of our country. all the rights that we thought we had. i don't think very much at all. >> talk about what happened to you when you blew the whistle? >> well, the first thing -- i mean, as a part of government employment, you are required to report fraud waste abuse and corruption and illegality. that's one of the grounds for being employed by the federal government and they publish this usually monthly, alerting the workforce as to what to do if they see something that they think is wrong, they should report it in our case in the department of defense, it was the department of defense inspector general's office which is what we did. we also went to the department of justice inspector general and the intelligence committees in congress, which are the proper ways to do that. that's what we did. and for that, we got raided and the department of justice came down on us fabricating evidence three separate times trying to indict us, each time we had exculpatory information that would negate and dismiss their charges, we dropped them. otherwise we could be in jail. kennedy: william, have you communicated with edward snowden, and what do you think of him? >> no, i have not communicated with him. i think basically, i talked to his father, but i've never met edward. i think basically he's done a public service not only to the people the united states but to the people of the world. what this is really doing is instituting the totalitarian procedures of monitoring the population everybody, not just in this country but spreading to the democracies in the world. what it's really doing is threatening democracy around the world. you may not know it, you may not feel what the effect is right now only because you haven't been affected yet. but the data is accumulated if you step out of line in anyway, you can be targeted and they can come down on you like they did us. kennedy: thank you very much for sharing your story. william binney. >> thank you. kennedy: from one whistle-blower to another, helpless vets are left to rot by the thousands as fudged paperwork and officials were hell-bent on keeping the administration secret. that is next. stay with us. many americans who have prescriptions fail to stay on them. that's why we created programs which encourage people to take their medications regularly. so join us as we raise a glass to everyone who remembered today. bottoms up, america. see you tomorrow. same time. another innovation from cvs health. because health is everything. dad,thank you mom for said this oftprotecting my future.you. thank you for being my hero and my dad. military families are uniquely thankful for many things, the legacy of usaa auto insurance could be one of them. if you're a current or former military member or their family, get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. . kennedy: as americans, we love our veterans, but not enough to fix their horrid administration. so what is the underlying problem? scott davis is a va whistle-blower, he saw the administration from the insideful he didn't like what he saw, so scott, welcome to "the independents" first and foremost. >> thank you for having me. kennedy: so tell us what work was like when you started to see this structural failure? what was going on? >> well, my job was, at that time was working in outreaching communication, and we were asked to put together outreach campaign for veterans, and we were told, use this list, it's got great numbers in it. and the list was a restricted file, and i went and talked with colleagues kimberly hughes and she said scott, why are we looking at lists that serve no purpose? we have hundreds of thousands of vets at pending status. kennedy this was in 2012, and since then both myself, kimberly hughes and others tried to raise awareness about this issue with va management and to no avail, they did nothing, and simply decided to engage in a campaign of harassment and whistle-blower retaliation. kennedy: you were blatantly punished, here you are trying to do the right thing. when did you realize it was going horribly wrong for you? >> i think it was around this year around march. i originally filed whistle-blower complaint, i turned into assistant deputy philip mccloskey and was told to find out what was going on and address the problems. when i attempted to return back to my office after taking sick leave, i was told i couldn't come back and i was to work a permanent detail in a department outside of my area of expertise. when i tried to return back to work, it became a long going fight to get management to allow me to come back to work. i had to reach out to congressman. i had to reach out to the house veteran affairs committee, i thought okay, if i share the information with the white house, they would do something. and unfortunately the whistle-blower complaint that i gave to the deputy white house chief of staff rob nabors got to my manager who retaliated against me. simply they didn't want to address the fact that 890,000 veteran records are in pending status and the va has known for quite some time since this report came out in 2012 that nearly 47,000 vets died between 1998 and 2012, waiting for their health care applications to be processed. that is shameful. >> we've seen a lot in the scandal about a culture of lying and covering up at the hospital level, but what you're talking about here speaks to a larger organizational cultural problem and other white house leak is extraordinary, you can speak to the culture of how they reacted to whistle-blowing and what that says to you? >> thank you for the question, there's no accountability at va, and i'll give you a perfect example. we have the reports of the one i showed you guys, we've given those to congress, i sent those to the white house. the "atlanta journal-constitution" did a story i posted on my twitter page, about this issue, where one of the executives from va acknowledged the 47,000 vets who died, and yet has done nothing to address the issue. there's a culture what they don't fear accountability, and to give you an idea how bad it is, we've heard the president, the prior secretary and the current secretary say that people like their va health care, it's just the administrative services that are the problem. the guy over at administrative services got a promotion during the scandal! it is so ridiculous and so shameful and if a private corporation was run this way, the federal government would have brought them down a long time ago. kennedy: all right, and now you have a guy from the private sector running the va. we'll see if it changes. sorry for all you've been through. very happy you came forward and thrilled you were on the "the independents" tonight. >> thank you. kennedy: please come back. you know, the expression speedy and pleasant at the post office? 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ask your doctor about crestor. . >> the poefs office is lag behind fedex, the lines are terrible, and you get two buckets of junk mail for every erotic novel you order. outbox tried to infuse modern innovation into the pony express. >> progress and innovation, they made the things we use every day smarter and more convenient. but there's one part of our daily lives that hasn't gone the better, in fact it's gotten worse. postal man, aka snail man. that's where outbox comes in. brings you snail mail online, making your life easier. kennedy: i love clean and easy, that sounds fantastic, not having to interface with the post office. where do i sign up? the co-founder of able. he started outbox, evan what happened. this was such a good idea. >> hey, we thought so, too. thanks for having me. well, like you heard in the video, we created a company called outbox, the goal was to help usher the postal service into the 21st century, our promise to you as a customer is you could never go to mailbox again. we had a way of getting postal mail, process it in on machines which we had patents and you would get all the mail instead delivered to your iphone or the web. you could unsubscribe from junk mail, have it sent to your house and have it sent digitally for free. that's the passion to build outbox. >> you made a lot of progress locally, you were able to deliver the service, talking to local post master. what happened when the national folks got wind of this program? >> launching and scaling successfully in austin, texas, and launching in san francisco, our second pilot city. we got a funny call from the post master general's office in washington, d.c. he said what's going on in austin? you should come up and visit with me. we put on our suits and ties, leaving behind our jeans as technology entrepreneurs and have a meeting we will never forget with the post master general and senior leadership team. in a window of conference rooms, we explained what we are doing, we're young tech entrepreneurs, trying to build a service that delights our customers and think we can create great partnerships with the postal service. we got feedback around the horn from the entire team of the postal service. the head of digital innovation looked at us and said the problem is no one will want it. digital is a fad. it will only work in europe it. proceeded to get better. the post master general says we have a misunderstanding, those people you're talking about aren't our customers. we thought american taxpayers, the citizens, the constitutional mandate to deliver the postal service itself. he said no our customers are several hundred volume mailers and our product to them is a guaranteed delivery of their junk mail or marketing mail onto the kitchen tables of everyday americans. kennedy: so your service was going to cost five bucks a month. were you going to share that with the post office? >> we proposed a number of ways to share revenue with them. we were losing money per customer like most start-ups do, but put forth ways we could share information with them. one valuable one is the postal service has no idea what you do with your mail once it's delivered into the mailbox. we were setting out like ups and fedex that work alongside the postal service. kennedy: evan, i have all the faith in the worldul be a billionaire and because of my faith, you can shower me with gifts, that is not even unethical for me to ask on television. i'm inviting you. thank you for being here and keep the ideas coming. >> invitation accepted. thanks for having me. kennedy: thank you so much for watching. follow us on twitter and facebook and e-mail us at independents@foxbusiness.com, the independents@foxbusiness.com. for matt welch and adorable kmele foster, i'm kennedy, thanks for being here. >> hi, everyone. i'm courtney thorne-smith. don't change the channel, because in the next few minutes, you're gonna learn about a breakthrough product that could help take years off your appearance. but here's the thing -- you don't put it on your face. want to learn more? 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