there is this operation going on right now in cambrils an hour and a half south of barcelona being called a police operation for a possible terror attack. we are not sure if it's connected to what happened on the las ramblas today. but people are being warned to stay inside their homes it appears to be a serious situation in cambrils. police said this explosion that occurred in the early hours of this morning, some hours away from barcelona that led to the death of one person is in fact being connected to the attack with the van today that killed 13 people. there are two suspects in custody. but quite importantly, neither of them is the driver of the van according to police. so that man is still on the loose tonight. 13 were killed and 100 injured and catalana officials are concerned there could be more. the van zigzagged for a quarter of a mile. police told people to run and in some cases had them hunkered down in shops and churches. drills * is a suspect from morocco. in terms of the explosion in the house that was believes to be related to a gas explosion. neighbors are telling reuters someone was trying to make bombs out of gas cannisters. gregg: joining me, dr. walid phares. one wonders how a terror cell that may actually be sizable, several people at least, how it remains undercover and can operate subrosa. are these cells so insular as we have seen the muslim community can be and terrorist communities can be, jihadist cells in london and throughout england. is that the reason? they are very self-sufficient and insular? >> you just pronounced the term, jihad itself. that's how it begins. you have on the one hand jihadi fighters that are under the surveillance and monitoring of various government because they are traveling to iraq, syria and libya and moving through the western world. but then you have those who have not traveled, who are the self-described jihad yefts. they interact with each other. at one point that cell becomes mature. they make the decision to strike. that's why it comes to the surprise of agency. we in america or europe look at the data that we have. if we don't see the jihadists because they have not been active. this is where we are not surprised. only count tore that is -- the only counter to that is to fight the radicalization. gregg: do they have a void in their lives and fill that emptiness born out of ignorance? >> let me begin with the second argument which is have much debated in america and europe. they have a void in their life. they don't have a job. they have frustrations. the populations of people like that's is much larger than the jihaddists. it depends on who is radicalizing you. so i go back to that square one, gregg, this is where the fight should begin. gregg: are they young, naive, uneducated for the most of part? >> look at the information about the identity, age group and more those who perpetrated the attack past two years. we could go back ten years, but two years, they are all in their 20s more or less. gregg: i looked at the lists of the last 9 months of vehicular terrorist attacks. barcelona is not one of them. several in france. obvious in london. but the one at the bottom of your screen stands out. it hadn't happened there before. why there? >> this is a fascinating question. we were saying that paris is a constant target in france because of the first attacks. then it's not that they have zones where the operation should begin it's not where they have hand the targets it's a guideline. barcelona is a place that is important. if they have a planning because you can hit not just people of barcelona or spaniards. but people from different nationalities. among the people killed in barcelona, they are from 8 to 10 nationalities. that would make news around the world. gregg: march 2004. substantially long period of time with the last terror attack of any great significance. a series of bombs ripping through commuter traints in madrid. 191 people were killed and 1,800 were wounded there. the bombings were carried out by north african islamic group who insected with a band of petty criminals. was that the first ian spain was vulnerable? >> it was a different strategic reason. it was inspired by al qaeda. spain was our direct ally with the british. the target was to create such a shock, a 9/11 shock in spain so the madrid government, the spanish government would withdraw those forces and the next government did. gregg: so we talked about a terrorist using planes to plow into buildings killing thousands of people. then they converted to conventional shoe bombs, other kinds of bombs, underwear bombs, every kinds of bomb. then they seem to have shifted to vehicles. there is some intelligence at their next series of targets will involve trains. what do you make of that? >> i do believe this is credible. i have looked into those reports. but let's go back to how they think strategically. what they have done is to thrust through a security system that would be airports. military bases. now they have discovered they could do damage outside the closed security system which means they use vans, trucks, cars, even individuals running on a bridge with a hatchet. what links that is the strategic view that al qaeda first, now isis widened, use whatever you can wherever you are. you don't need to be sophisticated. gregg: where do they get their funding? >> you have two times. one is self-funding which is to do a van or an attack with a knife. but for more sophisticated operations such as planting multiple bombs, they could do fundraising among jihadists. there are three ways to do it. gregg: mosques seem to be a breeding ground for terrorists. are european governments making any progress in shutting down those mosques? >> the french and the british as far as i understand are done a lot of efforts in co-opting new leaders of these mosques, trying to have intelligence in and around the mosque. but it's not just the actual walls, the building. it's the ideas penetrating the mosques. if the leadership is moderate they will help government. then you have mosques where the leadership is under the fear or intimidated by the networks. so the basic issue are the networks. gregg: police in catalonia are confirming they have killed perpetrators in what they call the coastal town of k -- of cabrila. don't let dust and allergens get between you and life's beautiful moments. flonase outperforms the #1 non-drowsy allergy pill. it helps block 6 key inflammatory substances that cause symptoms. pills block one and 6 is greater than 1. flonase changes everything. track your pack. set a curfew, or two. make dinner-time device free. [ music stops ] [ music plays again ] a smarter way to wifi is awesome. introducing xfinity xfi. amazing speed, coverage and control. change the way you wifi. xfinity. the future of awesome. gregg: sky news reporting several terrorists have been killed in a shootout in cabrila. police denounced -- announced an anti-terror operation under under way to stop the attack in caincambrils. apparently a second terrorist attack was planned and has been foiled. >> we heard earlier in the day about efforts to make bombs. there were a number of things going on. obviously it's fast moving. this has the earmarks of a more complex operation. it may not have gone according to plan, but it shows a larger effort than was previously thought. this helps give the lie to the idea that most of terrorist attacks are cause by lone wolves who self-radicalize. something we still have not fully appreciated and whether they are activating these terrorist attacks from a central decision maker or whether these are terrorists are seize the opportunity when they think it's best for them shouldn't give us any comfort it's a further demonstration that reality, thick in europe of the terrorist threat is growing. gregg: yet we hear sometimes from reliable sources that the threat and potency of isis is continuing to diminish. but that doesn't mean the enemy is still not capable of carrying out attacks or inspiring attacks. >> that's correct. i think isis, many of the leaders of isis have escaped somewhere else, whether it's yemen or afghanistan or the afghan-pakistan border and libya. this threat of radical politicized islam is carried out not just by people conducting terrorist attacks. many close observers of turkey are worried president erdogan having purged the secular element wants to set up an islamic republic in turkey, an has aspirations as many do to reestablish the caliphate that was abolished when the ottoman empire was broken up. we are talking about a spectrum of threats, the most of visible. gregg: you pointed out many of the terror leaders are leaving and dispersing. almost unique among terrorist organizations, the leaders of the real cowards who run and hide. they are like saddam hussein was hiding in a hole far away from baghdad. sort of the ultimate power. that could be said of these terrorist leaders. why is it they are followers. it doesn't seem to occur to them and they accept the fact that they are the ones whose lives are at risk, that the terror leaders are the ultimate cowards. >> the terrorist leaders have persuaded them martyrdom is the highest objective. i think it coward ice is something we should be exploiting in our propaganda. under obama since there was no ideological threat there was no need for a propaganda information campaign waged against it by us. under the trump administration this should be a priority. it can do considerable damage to the terrorists where they live. >> what does a propaganda campaign against isis and their allies look like? >> these people are being deceived into thinking they have some possibility of actually changing the west. i think a lot of people would be dissuaded going down that road if they thought they were engaged in fe futile activities. what we need are the government -- the help of the governments involved to better understand exactly what communications techniques we are going to use. during the cold war where we set up radio liberty and radio free europe. we used exiles from the captive nations of eastern europe. they helped us frame the messages and we need more of that kind of help from countries in the middle east and elsewhere. gregg: we talked to a witness in las ramblas who said she was incredibly impressed with the police who arrived at the scene. and we learned they foiled another terrorist attack in cambrils. >> i think across europe and certainly the united states, a lot of progress has been made in beefing up law enforcement and intelligence. that's all for the good and probably still more is warranted. but there has to be considerably more focus on discovering and preventing these attacks before they occur. but i think if you look at this through the paradigm that the terrorists are attacking us in a kind of war, this is not like a criminal knocking over the local 7-eleven. this an ideological attack to the united states and the west and it needs to be responded to that way, and that includes stronger action to prevent the attacks before they take place. gregg: ambassador john bolton, thank you for your insights. reports that the police foiled a second attack in spain. former national security advisor john hannah will be joining us as we continue our live coverage. highly contagious dise that can be really serious... especially for my precious new grandchild. it's whooping cough. every family member, including those around new babies, should talk to their doctor or pharmacist about getting vaccinated. that's why a cutting edgeworld. university counts on centurylink to keep their global campus connected. and why a pro football team chose us to deliver fiber-enabled broadband to more than 65,000 fans. and why a leading car brand counts on us to keep their dealer network streamlined and nimble. businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink. gregg: spanish media reporting four attackers have been shot dead by police in the town of cambrils. it's a group of people reportedly trying to drive another van into a pedestrian area in that town. but the van suddenly overturned and occupants were shot by police. they were reportedly wearing explosive belts. this adds a whole new complexity to what we understood to have occurred earlier today. does this appear to you to be a fairly elaborate terrorist cell? two attacks using vehicles in the same day. >> i do fear that. we have a lot of information to come in. but this is starting to look more like it was something on the scale of what we saw in paris on that awful day in november 2015 than some of these other attacks that look like one-offs. this looks like a pretty sophisticated cell network inside of spain ready to carry out multiple attacks. gregg: so there could be more to come. >> certainly. that's why spanish police with the help of the united states, the fbi and the rest of european intelligence needs to get to the bottom of this and plot out this scheme as fast as they can. gregg: do they have a better abuilt to be aggressive in a national security emergency like this? >> i would think so. you pull out all the stops within legal bounds. as in france in 2015, you might even have to declare a state of national emergency to give the police and law enforcement services even greater powers. gregg: that might mean a temporary evacuation of all these hot spots like las ramblas and some of the tourist destinations in spain. >> it may require some kinds of preventative measures including let's hope rounding up a lot of these guys preemptively. some of those people need to be taken off the street petty quickly and interrogated. ' secretary of state rex tillerson and defense secretary jim mattis insisting a military response to the north korean crisis does remain on the table. take a listen. >> any diplomatic effort in any situation where you have this level of threat we are confront with has to be backed by a strong military consequence if north korea chooses wrongly. >> there are strong military consequences if dprk initiates hostilities. gregg: those remarks coming one day after this guy steve bannon said there could be no military solution because tens of millions of south koreans and americans who were there would die the first 30 minutes of any conflict. back down with mr. hannah. what's your reaction to that. i think both may be right. >> i think i agree with you. any war is catastrophic and the number of south koreans in particular that get killed would be unimaginable. but at the same time you have got to take mattis at his word. if these guys fire the first shot at u.s. territory or one of our allies, if they have initiate a war, they are finished, north korea is over. gregg: for decades we had multiple options when it comes to north korea as their threat increased with the development of the ballistic missile program as well as their nuclear weapons. military use of force has always been on the table. the question is if, is it the option of last resort because of what you just point out? >> everybody believes that it has to be the last resort. as long as there is some hope of diplomacy, a military build yum and a strong military deterrent message is sent to the north koreans and the chinese actually begin to weigh in which is still a huge question mark. if you can bring some of those elements together and still have a chance of putting this program in the freezer and maybe rolling it back, i think any american president in good conscience. especially because it's the fate of south core ria, our ally, is at risk. you have got to run out every play before you initiate military action. gregg: they have artillery aimed at seoul from the dmz. is also an option, though nobody would talk about it, taking out kim jong-un? >> i think certainly as part of the war plan if north korea does initiate, we have to defend. we then go on the offense, destroy as much of that artillery as possible. gregg: when i say take out kim jong-un, i mean were u -- i mea. >> if a general would take his place and get rid of his nuclear program, i think that would have been done a long time ago. we thought saddam, the iranians, the syrians, north korea is off the charts. gregg: he bribed is top generals and military force around him to protect him. >> or killed them. gregg: when you lavish wealth and gifts on those who are protecting you, you will want to -- they will want to continue to protect you. reports a second attempted terror attack south of barcelona. we'll bring you the latest with a former fbi agent after this. that schwab billboard. oh, not so fast, carl. ♪ oh no. schwab, again? 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>> the fbi maintained an office full time in madrid. we have offices in london, in mexico city, all over the world, the fbi has full-time offices with special agents. we have people on the ground around the world and we'll be on and on working with our partners on these right from the first minute. gregg: doing what? >> running down intelligence. we are trying to figure out if they were connected. the international intelligence community is an interconnected web. because they travel so much. this guy just returned from morocco two days ago. we need to be in connection with all of our partners in the intelligence community and law enforcement community to track these guys down. fbi * in rooms, rolling up their sleeves, sitting down at computers and gaining valuable information, right? >> absolutely. that's why a lot of times you often see somebody who is not on the radar at the moment, within a day or two, out comes a plethora of information. there are analysts working around the clock and may be tapping into information stored somewhere. so it's essential that those analysts get to work and they are working around the clock. especially in a situation like this where you have follow-on attacks. we need to know who these people are. who they are associated with, where they hung out. you need their phone records and computers. all that has to be done very, very quickly. gregg: they would want to know whether this particular terrorist cell, and it may be more extensive with more tentacles than we originally thought, might have been communicating with individuals here in the united states and those intending to come to the united states to commit acts of terror? >> sure. i think the terrorism game now is transcontinental. we all need to be included in this game. the way they travel and the way they plan. the fbi has offices in all these different countries and american citizens in the nice will be france attack. we don't know if they were in spain but they could have been. we'll look at that first and foremost. but to be good partners in this international effort to stop these attacks, we need to be in the game, and we are in the game. gregg: bobby chacon, thank you for being with us. a second terrorist attack foiled 70 miles south of barcelona. we'll talk to catherine herridge. a lot more details straight ahead. we asked people to write down the things they love to do most on these balloons. travel with my daughter. roller derby. ♪ now give up half of 'em. do i have to? this is a tough financial choice we could face when we retire. but, if we start saving even just 1% more of our annual income... we could keep doing all the things we love. prudential. bring your challenges. gregg: we are following breaking news out of spain. spanish media says several people were injured by a second van attack in cambrils. it's south of barcelona where the earlier attack took place today along the main boulevard there. in cambrils attackers were apparently inside a van and they were able to injure people before they were then intercepted by police. four were shot dead, four suspects were shot dead, one was injured. catherine: following this story. good evening. what more do you know? >> it's important to lay out the timeline. all this unfolded within the last hour. spanish police sent out an alert in the town of cambrils it's 70 miles southwest of parse lona, that there was an d of barcelona. we have the details there were suspects inside a van. there was a shootout with police, and at least four people were killed. this is important because we need to see the larger picture of what's been happening the last 24 hours. we also had confirmation from spanish authorities that there was a direct connection between an explosion in a spanish city of alkanar, 100 miles southwest of barcelona. they thought initially it was a gas explosion. but on closer inspect they saw the house had been flattened and they found what appeared to be cannister bombs. basically a bomb-making factory was uncovered. here is analysis from one of my countecounter-terrorism contact. they believe after the explosion in alkanar, with a trip wire it exposed the mission and the real mission may have been to load the van with explosives to maximize the casualties at the target site. but after the explosion the gig was up and they started to move quickly to what amounted to a plan b. so that's analysis. but it seems reasonable given the events that unfolded. >> how does the events of the last hour in cambrils factor into all of this? do you know? >> based on my experience, when you have a situation where the operatives are exposed, we have two peoplened arrest, that's been confirmed by the spanish authority. it has the effect of causing the rats to scatter, if you will. they don't know what's being told police and they don't know what access they have on their electronics. then they are on the move. once they are on the move, they are the most of exposed. i looked at the barcelona attack, the explosion last night in a neighboring city with what appears to be a bomb-making factory, and this emergency ongoing operation in a town which is about smack in the middle between the explosion last night and barcelona today where we had. >> the white van, we had a half dozen individuals inside. when confronted by police, there was a shootout and four people were killed. gregg: would it be reasonable to conclude or assume maybe one of the two, if not both of the individuals arrested this evening in barcelona gave up valuable intel that may have led to the operation in cambrils? >> that would be a reasonable piece of analysis in this case. my experience is often the critical pieces of information and what is deemed to be the most of trustworthy comes from a suspect's electronics. what they tell you they can manipulate and lie to you. but the electronics don't have the ability to do that. i think electronic is the key piece here. but i don't want to get too far over the touch our skis. people at home need to see this as a series of events beginning last night in a town 100 miles southwest of barcelona with what appears to be a bomb-making factory. the attack is barcelona today, spanish police connecting these two event, then tonight an emergency situation in a town smack in the middle of these two locations where four people were gunned down in a white van after attacking civilians. gregg: the second terror attack foiled outsidebars lona. four suspects dead. one seriously injured. we'll take up the war against radical islamic terror coming up next. don't let dust and allergens get between you and life's beautiful moments. flonase outperforms the #1 non-drowsy allergy pill. it helps block 6 key inflammatory substances that cause symptoms. pills block one and 6 is greater than 1. flonase changes everything. listen up, heart disease.) you too, unnecessary er visits. and hey, unmanaged depression, don't get too comfortable. we're talking to you, cost inefficiencies and data without insights. and fragmented care- stop getting in the way of patient recovery and pay attention. every single one of you is on our list. for those who won't rest until the world is healthier, neither will we. optum. how well gets done. your bbut as you get older,ing. it naturally begins to change, causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall. thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain and actually improves memory. the secret is an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. the name to remember. so we need tablets installed... with the menu app ready to roll. in 12 weeks. yeah. ♪ ♪ the world of fast food is being changed by faster networks. ♪ ♪ data, applications, customer experience. ♪ ♪ which is why comcast business delivers consistent network performance and speed across all your locations. fast connections everywhere. that's how you outmaneuver. stay with me, mr. parker. when a critical patient is far from the hospital, the hospital must come to the patient. stay with me, mr. parker. the at&t network is helping first responders connect with medical teams in near real time... stay with me, mr. parker. ...saving time when it matters most. stay with me, mrs. parker. that's the power of and. gregg: we continue our live coverage of the terrorist attack in barcelona. now in the last hour another attack in the town of cambrils. four terrorists have been shot dead by police there. one seriously wound. they were inside a van that did manage to injure some pedestrians in cambrils. but the majority of that was foiled. joining me now to talk about it, the founder and president of the american forum for islamic democracy. dr. zuhdi jasser. the prime minister of spain said this is a war against jihadi terrorists. it appears he chose that language carefully and specifically. that language is important, isn't it? >> very important. as long as we call it violent extremism we won't get anywhere. so far most of of the western countries are calling it a battle against violent extremism? what is that? that could be anything. the reason we continue to miss some these, even though most of of the detects we are able to get before they happen. many are making their way. they are using things we can't predict. the precursor of violent islamism is non-violent islamism. the anti-semitic and pro-misogynist ideas. prime minister cameron called it out when he said we need muscular islamism. gregg: why were leaders like president obama so reluctant to use that language. >> they were so focused on the identity politics in washington and america, they ignored the bigger picture of what's happening within the house of islam. so whether than take side within the house of islam where you have 1.6 billion islams battling for modernity. leaders like prime minister true dean other far left want to use us muslims for internal bickering rather than globally helping muslim reformers battle the the -- the theocrats all ovr the planet. gregg: how do we win? >> we shift from cve to cvi. music industry, hollywood, media, universities. every front needs to be in the battle against political islam. gregg: once again, another terror attack foiled south of barcelona in the town of cambrils. some people were injured by a van driven by five terrorists, four shot dead by spanish police. one has been seriously injured. that does it for us tonight. thank you for joining us. ambassador john bolton and ambassador robert jeffries join us tomorrow. kennedy: breaking news on this light edition of "kennedy." a massive manhunt under way. and developing in the last hour. police say they killed four suspected terrorists and wounded another in a shootout in a town 0 miles south of the city. they are said to have been wearing suicide belts it all began this afternoon when a fanatic in a rented van drove into las ramblas promenade killing at least 13 people and

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