Off the top and wed still run very well. Thats something that needs to t done. Unfortunately, it never gts done. Probably people are at home saying that 15 sounds small. I ver knew there were 800,000, quotonessential rkers in the government. Wel more tan 80 of the outlays are still in effect even with the shutdown. You know, social security, the military, and the like. So we but i do think that this gives us a chance to prioriti what we want out of government. And to analyze what these bureaucrats really do. The wall stet journal had a great editorial abo the federal register of new rules made byhe government, looking back in september on any given day. You would have 500 pages, 400 pages of new rules. A day. Yeah. In the federal register that came out. And ifyou look after the shutdown, u had like 12 pages or six pages of new rules. S. So i thi that lack of government burden is relief and refreshing. I know at sous like relief to the businesess community. Enyou actually work in government. You saw firsthand. Is it as bloated as we say it is or many people believe it is . I say its much more bloated. I can say i was one of those nonessential workers. It was great. They paid me modestly well. They got incredibly good medical benefits. I liked it a lot. But on the other hand, we are only missing those people for a couple of weeks so far. Well see wha its ke wh we have missed them for a couple of cades. Right now, it does feel like fe has gone on. And same thing with sequestration. The government spends less money. The deficit comes down. Life doesnt change that much for the average american. So far, to bens point, thats been the case aso with the governments partial shutdown. Well, i find the tone of our conversation sad, quite frankly. Ben makes exactly the right int, charles, which is we dont know what it feels like. If you break your fger, charles, and i hope it doesnt happen to u, but it would be relatively minor, right . You would feel a littlepain. You could go a a little while without treating it. Eventually it would heal, but it would be disfigured. And thats what were going through. We can do without these people for some ti. You can do without having Yosemite National park open f some time. But is that the kind of government you want for the future, toave yomite closed for all time . Think about that as a metaphor. There are a lot of tngs like that, that the government does that may not be essential but are part of who we are as a country. Feeding poorhildren, as a example. For exampl gahead, gary. Ben lets talk realworld numbers here. In 2000, our government spent 1. 8 trillion. Just five years ago, 2. 8 trillion. And we are up to 3. 7 trillion. 900 billion the government is spending more than just five years ago. Where is it going . What is it for . We have no clue. Thats where all the bloated. Its got to stop. Thats how you get the 17 trillion in debt. I know the markets are acting find here. Am so worried one day the market is going to wake up and see all of this is not act fine. And all hell will break loose. Let m goack to wait one second. Dagen, ill picky back offof adams example. If i lost a finger, yes, but what if grew 15 fingers . What if i had5 fingers years from now . Then if i lostone, it wouldnt rt s bad ildnt be so disfiged. This gives us the opportunity to prioritize and decide are these people and bureaucra useful to us. Isnt it time to call the herd, so to speak. I want yosemite to be open, adam. And weve learned how critical so of these people are, like at the cdc wth the salmonella outbreak. You had people brght ba from furloughs to run the Computer Network that tracks disease across the country. So were realizing their value. But what about the pele who have lttle to no value who work in t government . Dagen, i have no problemith what you just said. Were talking about nonessential people. Not that. And dagen, i have no problem with what you just said. We should always be prioritizing. Like any good business, the government should also say, are these people essential . Are they useful . And reasonable people can agree that a lot of the things that were not doing over the past couple of weeks are things that we should be doing. And, gary, e markets spe last week. When it looked like we were getting closer to an agreement, to getting the government nning again, to avding the debt ceiling crisis, the mkets soared. Im going to jump in here. Because what were really talking about, ben,s everyday people. People watching this show. Were their lives changed . Were their liv impacted . Just like sequestration. I dont know. We might be finding out we can live with a smalr government. Except for this. Except for ths, charles, which is that the heads of every Uniformed Service has said they cannot defend the United States in the event of serious military problems. And that is a real crisis. That is not a joke. That has to be taken very seriously. Gary k. , listen, eryone has their ownwn pet area of the governme that theyd protect, that they love thats essential. But, againim not making up this word. 800,000 nonessential workers. And we all either worked in the government, we know someone who worked in government. Lets be honest about it. Its not run like the private sector, to adams point. Its run like something else. And, look, those of us who really want efficient and effective governnt are told we are extremists and we dt like the po, and we dont like children. And thats just got to stop. All we care about is government being accountable. It is our money they are spending. And they are ctrating not only our x dollars, but our kids tax dollars and their ki. Something has got to give. But youre talking about last week in the market. I dont care about the shortterm. I care about the longterm. As ive said many times, its our money, as you say, gary, and our government. Charles, i promise you that all corporationsave nonessential people too. People they cod get along without for a few days, for a few weeks. But they needed their employees for the corration. The government is no different, gary. Adam, ian promise you if you hired somebody like a jack welch to wal into d. C. Nd really streamline it, he can cut 10, 15, 20 ougt of it, and everything would beok. And i dont disagree with that. I dont disagree we should try our best to priorite. The question is, do we need these nonessential people . Yes,e need them. For all sorts of reasons. The question is, has it impacted amrica . Would it impact america in many ys, charles. To keep the government as bloated as i is it grows faster than the rate of inflation. We all know theres redundancy and waste. We know that. Meantime, everyone watching this show just about in the last five years had to tighten their own belts. They had to make adjustments in their open liwn lives. The only thing thats grown is the government. We can do without a bigger government. There are a lot of offials of corporations getting paid ormous amounts who are also nonessential but who get it thro cronyism. Cronyism is a fact of human life. Its not just a government phenomenon. Its a fact of human life. As a stockholder, id like to see that too. But you have the right to not own part of that company a that business. As taxpayers but i do o it, dagen. And erefore i believe i should ha aight but you have a choice sell it. I know that. But its my rporation. Its not the board of directors corporation. And i think i should have a vote on whether or not they cull that herd. I think you have more of a vote in private business as a stockholder than we, the american taxpayers, do right now. I disagree. We might throw them all out of office, but i think we can live with Smaller Government than we have right now. Forget about ving trouble getting on theobama care exchange. The real problem starts after you do log on. Well explain at the top of the hour but up nex forget about any pain from a government shutdown. If this union leaderets his way, get ready for some pain at way, get ready for some pain at the pump. Customer erin swenson ordereshoes from us online but they didnt fit. Customers not happy, im not happy. Sales go down, inot happy. Merch comes back, im not ppy. Use ups. They make returns easy. Unhappcustomer becomes happy cuomer. Then, repeat customer. Easy rurns, im happy. Repeat customers, im happy. Sales go u im happy. I ordered anothepair. Im happy. both im happy. Im happy. Happy. Happy. Happy. Happy. Happy happy. I ve logisti. Youre not linda. Im filling in for officer owens. She used double miles from her capital one venture card to take an early vacatn. Buckle up. Lets go do cop stf. [ siren chir ] license and venture card, maam. Was i gog too fast . Oh, youd be going twice as fast if you had double les. [ ma announcer ] get away fast with unlimited double miles from the capital one nture card. Freeze dont touch the face can i drive . Absolutely not. Whats in your wallet . Business on fox. Talk about a kick in the gas. A to union leader wants to hike the federal gas tax. The head of the Laborers International ion in north america saying we need more cash for roads and business. This as consumers are getting a break at the pump down more than 40 cents since the beginning of february. I would tell mr. Union to take a hike. The bottom line is that every penny of gas tax hike is 1. 8 billion out of an economy thats still getting off its back. This is not the right time. Gornment has plenty money. Go back to e president and ask him why he didnt spend the money he promised during the stimulus on frastructure. That i ha they have plenty of money out there for this. A gas tax is never going to be popur, but is it necessary to hike it . The unions have a sweet gig here. They get the government to extort money from the taxpayers to pay into them, the union, and they say its in your best interest. Its like the mafia coming to the people in th dry cleaners and say, you need to provi protection, and you say from om, and you say it us. I have no idea what hes talking abt. Taking the money from the general public and lining their pocks, it might be pretty beneficial, huh, dagen . It might be. Nobody has the right to bitch about their roa needing repaired, their potholes, unless youre willing to step up and pay for it. Every day we pay gax taxes already. I can talk about the gas taxes untilthe cows come home. The gas tax hasnt gone up. The federal gas tax has not gone up for 20 years. And the cost of road constrtion and repair has gone up by 55 over that time. It is a usage fee. It is a tax on those people using the roads. Now i will say, if youre happy with t state of the roads, fine, dont raise it. But ifou want the roads repaired, you either have to raise the gas tax or talk about switching to a road usage fee, which is something that weave talked about. But people driving have to pay for the roads. We do pay gas taxes already. On the local level, federal lel, state level. In fact, i think that the Government Agencies make more money from our does. Well, this is one of those issues where i look forward to agreeing with dagen every time we discuss it, because not oly do we pay gas taxes, and not only is it a users fee, but its a successful users fee. The federal gas tax is what has funded so much road constrtion over many decades. And as dagen points out, not only is it low for us, but its low in compison our gas prices arencredibly low in comparison to the rest of the developed world. Hold on one second. You do understand that as you extol the virtues of this, you actuallyont. In other words, if they are ilding so many roads and the are so successful, why do we have to hike it . In addition to all of the tolls we pay in addition. First of all, we havt raised them enough. Dagen has already explained. And secondly, tolls are location specific. And they work too. Toll roads work for where they are. Dagen, youre the one who says that governnt needs to prioritize. So this is important, start priotizing. Right. Thats what im saying. If youre not willing as a driv to pay for road repair, like if youreoads are in bad condition around where you le and if youre happy with that, thatsine. Then keep the gas taxes exactly where th are. But, ad, i want to Say Something to adams point about this, the gas tax has been very successful. Its actlly aecliningource of revenue becausef the fuel efficiency of automobiles the days. Peop aret buying as mch gasoline. So in e long run, as a nation, we have to come with a w to pay for road repair and construction. Whether its usage fee, higher gas taxes, thats a decision well be forced to make. Gary k. . I sai earlier, were spenng 900 billion a year more than we did fiv years ago. Take some of that money. Fix the roads. Not somebody who comes out with these big books every year of ridiculous actually comedic government waste. Get rid of all of that, and it adds up to hundreds of millions of billions ofdollars, and earmark is to the roads and bridges that need to be done. Adam . Gary, federal tax a federal increase federal gas tax dollars go directly into the economy, to the point that you said earlier, it would hurt the economy, no, it goes directly into the economy improving the nations infrastructure. That helps commerce. It helps in every way. Its not wasted money in the least. Especially because its being paid for by people who are using that infrastructure. More people are more taxes directly out of consumers hands, and also users, customers. This is capitalism. If youre taking the bus, youre a consumer taking the bus, it doesnt t you. Not directly. If your taking public transportation, it doesnt hit you. But the bottom line, guys, it does feel like weear it hasnt gone up because it isegressive and peoe hate it and they bitch about it. So its been 20 years, and that hasnt gone anywhere. A lot of money has been thrown at it. Thanks a lot, guys. This might have you calling for different kind of shutdown. Shutdown. Not only is the the ocean gets warmer. The peruvian anchovy harvest suffers. It rais the prof fishmeal, cattle fd and beef. Bny llon turns insights like these into powerful investment sttegies. For a unersity endowment. It funds a marine biologist. Who studies the peruvian anovy. Invested in the world. Bny mellon. Americans for up to 75 years. Bentein . Well, i asse that i have no privacy at all anymore. I assume that im talking on my car phone, emailing, people a listening to me all of the time. I assume that sorry, that its 1984 already. And that big brother is watching every sing thing i do. And imgoing to get a l of trouble. Eah. Well, youay have to call in a few markers. Gary k. , 75 years boggles the mind, doesnt it . Yea its just one big gigantic colonoscopy at this time. Were watched by an administration who railed against the last administration for its watching and probing. Who knows where it ends . I got news for you, we dont even know oneteh of what theyre doing they only allow us to know what they want us to know. Maybe its 750 yrs. Adam, do you have a problem with this at all . I will admit to bein conflicted. Here is my conflict. We in the media should do everything we can to expose the method that the government is using. We have should be on their case on it and make sure we understand and that we bless. Having said that, i think that the Security Agency should do everything they can to keep us safe. If that includes collecng and holing on to data so holding on to data so they can analyze and protect the country, yes, i support their right to do it. 75 years you have to analyze it after someone has been dead 50 years . Realistic we can joke but maybe there are pterns there they can learn from to prevent the next terrorist attack. Im willing to say within reason and with oversightthat they should be allowed to go to Great Lengths to ke us safe. Frankly, im surprised you dont agree with that, charles. The government couldnt even finthis guy who had a meal health record, many arrests, be shooting at people, blowing out teir tire they couldnt keep him from going in the navy yard and killg people. What is goin on . Analyzing patterns no. You are just pointing out how difficult it is to find and analyze this data. You make it sound lke its easy. Its not easy. It isasy. It is easy. Hold on. Bring dagen in. Were talking about piling on extra data. 75 years worth, everybodyn america. Cmon, we do draw the line somewhere. Do we . I dont know. Im with them, though. I think its sad, distressing but i fully expect the government to behave this way. Unfortrtunately do you accept it . I will be dead and gone. I hope they look at my data when im dead and in the ground and say, that girl was crazy they ll confirm what we already know. You know what . When im gone, have fun with it. My thanks t dgen. Stocks continue with the highs we went out and asked people a simple question how old is the oldest person youve known . We gave people a sticker and had them show us. We learned a lot of us have known someone whos lived well into their 90s. And thats a great thing. But even though were living longer, one thing that hasnt changed much is the official retirement age. The question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy allf these years. To enjoy allf these years. So i can rea ally bank 24 7, but there ar24 7. Branches . Im sorry, ijust really reluctant to try new things. Really . Whats wrong with trying new things . Look mommys new vacuum cat screech you feel that inour muscles . I do. Drink wate its a long story. Well, not having branches lets us give you great rates and rvice. Id like that. A new way to bank. A better way to save. Ally bank. Your money nds an ally. Stocks that are down and not out andeady to break out. Gary k. . I like starbus. Were a caffeinated world. Howard schultz knows it and he is finding every nook and cranny to put stores. I expect big tin going forwd. You like it, adam . I do but i will int out a risk. He is expanding theenu greatly. Its an opportunity and also a risk. That is something they could screw. The bakfast menu didnt work out. What do you like here . Schwabs total Stock Market Index fu, charles. This is a perfect example of why investors should just keep investing a prudent amount consistently in the market. What happened last week, the market was down and then way up. This is how you succeed in that environment . Ben, what do you like . I like lots of things. Mostlyaigen, but youant buy stock from dagen. I like e. E. M. , the emerging market index. Th to me, it got kicked hard but now they are coming back. I love emerging markets. I lovit as well but i love you better. Cost of freedom continueslace. Fox. So fget about all the rhetoric and the wrangling in d. C. Get to the het of the debt battle. Outofcontrol entitlement spending. The biggest chunk of the buet by far. Republicans leaders say if we dont deal with it, we will never stop raising the debt limit. Some liberal democrats drawing a linehe sand, saying dont touch entitlements ever. So who is right . Hi, everybody. Im david asman. Welcome to forbes on fox. Steve forbes, rick unger, mike, bill baldwin, sabrina schaefer, john tandy. 2 trillion out of a 3. 5 trillion budget. More than th majority.