how big when it comes. the dow sold off nearly a quarter of its value, wiped out in a single day. that would be the equivalent of the dow umbling more than 3000 points today. still back in 1987 every major blip and bump since we always heard the same stock song and dance, didn't we. can't happen again. won't happen again. too many protections now. the circuit breakers that were supposed to arrest panic but did not. the curbs that were meant to ease us into a freefall and ease us out of a freefall that could not. try as we might new gremlins keep testing our might. that is one thing we learn from market history, the smartest programs, the fancy evident algorithms and uncanny leverage or daring derivative or i don't know, savvy swap can't prevent slop. beware those who say history can't repeat itself. history proves it always, always does. to former bb&t john allison who was president of that bank 25 years ago today on the very real warning signs it can happen again today. john, a pleasure to have you. you don't look a day older my friend but what do you make of then and now and everyone says, well, you know that is ancient history. what do you say? >> good afternoon, neil. great to be with you. let me try to give context i was president of bb&t during that correction. it is important to understand exactly what happened because the correction didn't happen on a short-term thing. it happened on a long-term phenomenon.% started with johnson back in the '60s when he wanted a war on poverty and vietnam war and didn't want to tax people to do that, so the feds started printing money. that continued in 1970s that resulted in massive inflation. the fed had to correct the mess it made. raised the prime rate to 81%. that created severe economic correction and fall in the market. in a way it was short and clean and government didn't do anything. we started on real solid and real growth. alan greenspan who was the new head of the fed really arbitrarily decided real growth was a bad thing the misconstrued and thought it was inflation. he started arbitrarily raising interest rates. neil: just to explain you're an enencyclopedia for people who hadn't be older as we are. ronald reagan was president and point often missed in history ronald reagan's response to the crisis was essentially, don't go overboard with big fixes and expensive fixes. the famous query when asked about the falloff, i think he said something to the effect markets go up, markets go down. in other words, don't make a mountain out of what could be a comparatively a molehill and overdo it setting up for the next crash. they kept it besides circuit breakers and curbs, they sort of limited it to that. cynics and critics of ronald reagan said that set up scandals and everything else. but i really do think it kept the government out of screwing up something that they would only make worse. what do you think? >> absolutely because the market needed to correct. resources needed to be allocated. we were misallocating resources because of inflation and they needed to be reallocated. that's when we decided to have real growth. when the market prevents governments from clearing we don't have real growth and struggling like we do today. this is reality today. bernanke is printing money like crazy for four years. stock market is reincoming somehow interest rates will be low. pes are vulnerable particularly in tech stocks or high p-e stocks. if we do get growth and fed is forced to raise interest rates the market is vulnerable. the vulnerabilities long-term bond market where the fed is arbitrarily buying down the long end. neil: that is the next bubble. every single market selloff whether single day event or dramatic turn down of months or years is triggered by a bubble that bursts or at least pricked and air is colling out. you could argue with real estate in '87. you could argue the mania of leveraged buyouts in '89. meltdown of real estate again. some say it is bond market and art first quarterly low interest rates this time around as you were up toing on. ii this the modern day bubble. >> i have been in the banking business 40 years. i think every bubble has been fundamentally created by the federal reserve. if we had stable monetary system based on gold standard we would have much less volatility. the fed always overreacts. neil: you're right. >> they try to fix things and make a mess. i don't think markets are anywhere near as volatile as the fed is. i think the fed creates a lot of this market volatility by misleading people, trying to do economicalcation -- economical class. neil: that is interesting. fed is more volatile than the markets. always words of wisdom. thank you my friend. good to see you again. >> thank you, neil. neil: maybe wall street isn't pulling something fancy or washington doing nothing at all, nothing. edward jones managing director says congress and cliff almost begs thescal markets fall off that cliff. he puts his money where his mouth is. he is one of 60 bankers that sent off a letter to washington demanding action. he is a partisan barber. we're not blaming either of you guys, do something and do something soon. have you gotten any response? >> the response that we've gotten, neil has been primarily internal at our firm. they're glad to see us speaking up, lending our voice to the need for bipartisan action as well as president and congress to come together so the u.s. doesn't go off a fiscal cliff. neil: getting a pat on the back from saying something bold is a far cry from actually following up on your recommendation and doing something bold. >> well, no, that's very edward jones helps serious long term individual investors to reach their financial goals. we work with very conservative individuals who are frustrated, who are fearful right now, who are very concerned the lack of action, gridlock in washington will cause --. neil: what do you say to them, to you, to other bankers that signed the letter? they're on the front line looking at torpedoes. talk about a meltdown there could be the same for you, right? >> it is not reasonable to believe that there's anything good will come out of going over the fiscal cliff. it will adversely affect the markets. neil: what about delaying it? talk is delaying it? what about delaying it six months? >> by delaying it what you will do neil is buy some time. you will buy some time regardless how the election turns out hopefully we can get the president and congress to have an open-minded, bipartisan discussion with some longer term perspective that will address both spending as well as the revenue side of the budget. neil: james, you're an excellent read of the markets. one of the reasons why i respect the heck out of you. i wonder how the markets respond to a delay with the hope that that delay produces an agreement on a simpler tax system, a budget reform, you know, hope always springs eternal but you and i are probably old enough to remember it doesn't always pan out that way. so you get your delay. the markets don't share our collective hope and confidence that you strike a deal. they might sell off, right? oh, and agencies might say, oh, you're punting again, you washington. and there will be hell to pay, a big market selloff. what do you think? >> neil, i think some of the activity you're seeinggin the market right now today and more recently this week may be anticipating the fiscal cliff and the lack of willingness or, movement toward addressing it. there, again, i will repeat myself. there is nothing good that will come out for allowing us to go over the cliff. neil: you're exactly right james, thanks for taking time. >> my pleasure. neil: what is the 25th anniversary, is it gold, silver? i have no idea. it is not a happy one. always good having you, james. thank you very much. >> thank you very much, neil. neil: by the way i will be live in boca raton, that's monday for the final presidential debate. we start things off at 8:00 p.m. going through midnight. don't you know the fiscal cliff will come out and romney forces are saying it is foreign policy debate they will work like crazy how this economic abyss -pthreatens our national security. watch creative ways they bring all of this into that. by the way, mitt romney is breaking out his swing state secret weapon and his name is paul, rand paul. the senator hitting the road for romney but before he does he stops by here first. don't laugh, romney's entire campaign could get a jolt because of this. >> people seem to be very curious as to how we prepare for the debates. let me tell you what i do. first, refrain from alcohol for 65 years before the debate. [laughter] second, find the biggest available view men and mercilessly attack it. big bird didn't even see it coming. [laughter] [ male announcer ] eligible for medicare? that's a good thing, but doesn't ver everything. only about 80% of urpart . the rest iup to you. so consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured unitedhealthcare insurae company. like all standardized mecare , they pick up some of wt medicare doesn't pay. and save you up to thousands of dollars in out-of-pocket costs. call today to request a fr decision ide to help you better uerstand what medare is all about. and which aarp medicare supplement plan works best f you. with these types of plan you'll be le to visit any ctor or hospit that accepts medicare patients... plus, ere are no network and you'll never need a referral to see a specialist. there's a range of plans to choose from, too. and they all travewith you. anywhere in the country. join the milons who have already enrolled inhe only medicare supplement insurance plans endorsed by aarp, an organization serving the needs ofeople 50 and over fogeneraons... and provided by unitedhealthcare insurance company, which has over 30 years of experience behind it. call tay. remember, medire supplement insurance helps cover some of what medicare doesn't pay -- expenses that could really add up. these kindof plans could save you up to thousands in out-of-pocket costs... you'll be able choose any doctor o accepts medicare patients. and you never need referrals. so d't wt. with all the good years ahead, look forhe experience and commitment to go the distance with you. call now to request your free decision guide. this easy-to-understand guide will answer some of your questions, and help youind the aarp medicare supplement plan that's right for you. neil: yet another sign of an unhealthy economy, this could make you sick, very sick. more people are collecting full government health benefits than are actually working full time, first time in this country's history that happened. the government is growing, jobs are not and that's got reason's magazine worried. peter, that is incredible. i didn't know that was statistically possible but i guess it is. what do you make of it? >> the way medicaid works, as economy gets weaker more people end up enrolled in medicaid. medicaid is the big one. we see rise in medicare enrollment because the baby boom generation is turning 65 and hit retirement age and enroll in medicare. with medicaid, the way the program works, if you fall below on poverty sca wle have since 2008, at that point there were about 42 million people on the prog people need to have their own health insurance. neil: you know what i worry about, peter in this debate, you and i chatted about it before, what got to be the distraction in the romney 47 thing. a lot of people got upset, noses properly out of joint, that included soldiers and retirees many who paid into the system for a lot of years and they were rightly upset but when you step back, the question missed accuracy of the percentage. how did we get to 47% paying no income taxes and that many relying on government ben of some sort or another? not that many deserve it but essentially doubled since i got out of college. as we know that was just a few years ago. all right, i'm lying about that. but my point how do we get that under control? the math doesn't favor our continuing to do so? >> you know, that is a good question. i think the really worrying thing here is the poor results that we see from medicaid. not just that the program is expanding. this is a program that has surprisingly bad health outcomes. if you look and compare people on medicaid versus people who are uninsured entirely cancer survival rates for medicaid patients are basically, almost no better. they did a study a couple years back looking at people who had major surgery under medicaid and with no insurance at all, people with medicaid had mortality rates twice as high, more expensive, longer hospital stays. what we're trying to do with the obama administration wants to do is expand this program. obamacare expand medicaid by somewhere between 10 and 15 million people over the next decade or so. that's really worrying. rather than trying to pare back these programs, focus them on the poor, needy, folks who really need it, what we're doing is expanding them, turning them into middle class entitlements. neil: it doesn't address something that goes on behind the scenes. doctors who cringe dealing with those almost going to pay the bill entirely on the government's dime and that, it is not to put them in sort of evil terms but, that, that expands the pool of available treated out there and there's only so many doctors and there is only so many mri machines and so many available treatments. so by just sheer math alone we're going to spread ourselves pretty thin, right? >> medicaid beneficiaries have some of the hardest time finding providers to see them. neil: sure. >> a big part of that because reimbursement rates are so low. rather again, rather than scale the program back, focus it on the people who really need it what we're trying to do is exxand it and we're going to be the spreading doctors thin. what we will end up doing paying doctors even less while at the same time expanding number of people who are insured through this program we then expect them to treat. it will not add up. it will not work. neil: something is very wrong when you started medicare itself, before medicaid, started out as $66 million under president johnson in 195 or 6, my memory escapes me and it last grown to this half trillion dollar behemoth today. it started out with focused attempt for people who really, really needed it as it did with food stamps those genuinely poor and people who really need it. we get to the ballooning figures, some more and more getting in and some don't need it at all and could quite fend for themselves but sets up dependency that is scary. >> medicaid when it started in the mid 1960s inflation adjusted cost was about $9 billion. last year the federal government spent about $275 billion. neil: oh, my gosh. >> states about another $100 billion. what the obama administration wants to do is double the federal spending on this the next decade. by 202 the plan is spend roughly $600 billion on a program. this is not the way to reform a program. they're expanding a program that just doesn't work. really a bad sign for the eeonomy. it is a bad sign for people's health. it is a bad sign for taxpayers. neil: peter, thank you very much. as i tell on people on the show. not a left or right or green or blue. the green is not there to keep doing the kind of stuff peter was elaborating on. it is not there. it is one-stop place we tell you. it is not a democratic bashing, this is not aa3 republican bashing, the numbers aren't there to support it. we better come up with better math because this ain't cutting it. you remember this doozy from mitt romney a couple months ago. >> i can't tell you anything about the vp process, neil, you know that. if i did, i would have to, you know, have to come after you with my men in black flashlight and erase your memory. neil: that was kind of funny. but i think he got himself a comedy coach and came up with something even funnier, because last night, this guy, had them in stitches. i'm going to tell you, the dividends are already showing up. >> the campaign can require a lot of wardrobe changes. we, blue jeans in the morning perhaps. suits for a lunch fund-raiser. sport coat for dinner but it is nice to finally relax and where what ann and i wear around the house. 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[applause] >> he knows how to seize the moment this president. and already has a compelling new campaign slogan. you're better off now than you were four weeks ago. [laughter] neil: well, both candidates trading zinges at last night's al smith dinner. we're used to see the president drop a few fun necessary. but mitt romney hit the stage like richard pryor than richard nixon. with recent gains in likeability polls, don't dismiss this. because it has a serious impact. for a few laughs maybe the governor pushed himself over the top. might be premature but who better on all things political details than a guy who is walking encyclopedia on them, fox news digital editor, chris stirewalt. i had the opportunity to be there last night. i got to tell you it was in as much in his demeanor and delivery than the stuff he said that blew folks away in that room. and, does this stuff resonate? does it have an impact? what do you think? >> well, here's the deal, comedy is about timing, comedy is also about expectations. just like politics, it is about expectations. and mitt romney knew that since he had this reputation as being a stiff, and being this rich guy and being all of that stuff, a tea totaller who doesn't drink he had this expectation. he went in and able to use thaa to flip it a bit. and cast himself as somebody who could poke fun at himself and poke fun at the president and laugh. he was very funny. he clearly had good jokes but also delivered them the right way. look there is no comedy routine that will put everybody over the top, but what you saw in romney was the same thing you saw in ronald reagan, that you saw in bill clinton, and that you saw in george w. bush, which was the ability to get a room on your side and make them laugh and for mitt romney, who has long struggled with a likeability gap with barack obama, it's important for him to show that he doesn't take himself too seriously. neil: looked like george bush, when he became president they're all laughing at me so i might as well laugh at myself. here is why it could have a impact that those reagan-carter, the only reagan-carter debate, i'm sorry, there was picture and portrayal of ronald reagan all but lucifer in pinstripes. lo and behold hh is not that bad. he is funny, amiable and warm. although much in different time and era to a degree like mitt romney. he was portrayed in ads callous 47%, evil rich guy and private capital guy and people saw him and say, he is not so bad. jokes replay on all the news channels as they do from the al smith dinner and a whole different impression. does that warm him up to people who might be sitting on the fence, all right, maybe this guy's okay? >> sure and it helped him throughout, the expectations that were set about mitt romney by barack obama in six months of attacked as, and were said about mitt romney by the establishment press, mitt romney has had a fun time and pretty easy time it turns out foiling that because it was so much of a caricature. so comedy helps that. you remember, neil, barack obama said of hillary clinton you're likable enough during their debates? neil: yes, yes. >> there is such a thing as likable enough. it is not probable that mitt romney will be considered more likable than barack obama who is the youngish, first african-american, other of two, who goes on "sportscenter" and that stuff. he is lot hipper than mitt romney who is sort of hip to be square. so maybe he is never going to be as likable as him but what we have seen is that mitt romney's favorability number, which means that people are okay with you, has gone up. those things are correlated. if romney can demonstrate he is an okay guy, he can laugh -pat himself, tell a joke and he can do that, that helps people find him acceptable in this case you may be talking about somebody who is likable enough. neil: i love your comment about hip to be square, one of his said i came here tonight because they wanted me to be the designated driver. just blew the house away and deadpan delivery. i think he was reinforcing and quite happy in his, you know, maybe nerdy skin and just showing the world that and relishing it. we'll see. that is tough to say the president wasn't funny. we expect him to be funny. is very funny and very glib but i don't think people expected that mitt romney. we'll see if it pans out. chris, you are as kblib and funny as you are brilliant my friend. thank you for joining us tonight. >> nerds unite. neil: nerds unite. thanks, chris stirewalt. here's what happens when you throw hillary clinton under the bus. she drives you off the cliff. what the secretary of state said in a women's magazine has the white house fearing it just lost women period. you see us, at the start of the day. on the company phone list that's a few names longer. you see us bank on busier highways. on once empty fields. everyday you see allhe ways all of us at us bank are helping grow oueconomy. lendinmore so companies and communities caexpand, greveryday you see all of us serving you, around the country, around the corner. us bank. oh, hey alex. just picking up some, brochuresposters copies of my acceptance speech. great! it's always good to have a backup plan, in case i get hit by meteor. wow, your hair loo great. didn't realize they did photoshop here. hey,ood call on those mugs. can't let 'em see what you're drinking. know, i'mlad we're both running a nice, clean race. no need to get nasty. here's you"honk if you had an fair with taylor" yard sign. looks good. [ male announcer ] fedex office. now save 50% on banners. neil: did hill just knock barack for a loop no not on the benghazi thing but this woman thing? in the west wing someone wants to get a hold of hillary clinton and just throttle. it started innocently enough in a marie claire interview when the secretary of state was asked about the challenges women face with work and family. cutting to the chase, hilly essentially told them to shut up. i can't stand whining. i applaud her frank response. i don't like whining. for example, when fat people blame the condition on thyroid. by the way the camera does add 50 pounds. it's true. back to i will had. for women it could put this democratic ticket in hell. not the best timing since team romney-ryan have been getting "fast and furious" with females. after being thrown under the bus on libya as some see it, is hillary clinton getting away as fast as she can from that bus as some now increasingly see it? we are on it. state department saying that clinton's comments were taken out of context. i actually have the full interview here. i will delve into it more. i don't think they were taken out of context. tea party activist is here and saying this is damage to the president and it is done. i don't think she said anything offensive. i think she was just saying we all have to suck it up and deal with it. we'll get into the particulaas. if you hear the clips and reaction, you'll think that she was demeaning or ripping women for complaining and that will do enough damage, right? >> oh, absolutely, neil. you know, paging eva longoria and the rest of the whining pathetic women out there on this war on women brigade, you know, hillary clinton just made the case for every woman in america to vote for mitt romney because guess what? this is america. and your life is all a circumstance based upon your choices. hillary clinton simply she has completely debunked this myth somehow there is war on women when people are out there wanting free choice and wanting women to make their own choices. this is a big win for women and i think it --. neil: she was framiig it in a way that made it kind of odd. she was asked about, a lot of women who juggle career and kids and all of that. she went on to say if you're not happy do something about it. live in time you have endless choices. mon money certainly helps. you don't have to money to go for it but you have to work on yourself. do something. what is so novel about that? is essentially the essence of people who want to succeed in life anyway? male or female. she is saying if you want to go to something in life, that is your choice, quit whining about it and go for the gus stow. >> neil, the key word, there is a key word there, women who are organized and have a support system in place who have kids and do quite well. but let's take it even further than that if you want to separate working women and women not working. how we find out to get into those binders that governor romney was looking at because there are a lot of women out there who would loveethe opportunity to work for such a strong, moral courageous leader like mitt romney. neil: that binder comment, you would think he was like, going through penthouse here because the president was seizing on that today in virginia. want you to react to this real quick. >> sure. >> when the next president and congress could tip the balance of the highest court in the land in a way that turns back the clock for women and families for decades to come, you don't want someone who needs to ask for binders of women. you want a president who is already appointed 2 unbelievable women to the supreme court of the united ptates. neil: what do you make of that? >> well, i think it is just pretty pathetic the democrat party and this pathetic women whining brigade are out there actually trying to convince women we're so helpless and so needy and so pathetii we need a man ii the white house making decisions for us. there is o such thing as going backwards. women are the largest minority in this country, so, i think that is why you see women shifting towards mitt romney because they're just not buying all the bs coming out of this party. neil: well, you speak your mind, katrina. i will say that. good seeing you again. thank you very, very much. >> thank you, neil. neil: like father, not like son. why rand is going to bat for mitt despite dad. 4g lte is the fastt. sowhich supeast 4g lte service would yochoose, based on this chart ? don't rush into it, i'm not looking for the fastest answer. obviously verizon. okay, i have a different chart. going that way, does that make a difference ? it's so much more than the other ones. isn'that the exact same tng ? it's pretty clear. still sticking with verizon. verizon. more 4g lte coverage than all oth networks combined. neil: his dad might have doubts about mitt, does not mean rand paul does. prove tea party kentucky republican senator storm new hampshire. state is popular and big government is not. senator, always a pleasure to have you with us. thanks for joining us. >> glad to be with you, neil. if i were mitt romney naturally i want you there. father certainly popular there. libertarian view of conservative view of limited government extremely popular there. is that a sign that mitt romney is worried there? >> well, you know, i don't think so necessarily. i think that they have just asked me to go to different place, ohio, new hampshire, nevada, some of these places have appeal to libertaria libertarian-minded republicans and i think i can help to get the enthusiasm going and get our base energized. >> because the reason why i asked, if your father, still been kind of, you know, not so peachy keen on mitt romney. certainly not peachy keen on barack obama. i wouldn't know who he votes for. has he told you? if he is not aggressively supporting mitt romney, what is he doing? >> i'm not authorized to speak on his behalf. i have to talk to him at thanksgiving see what i'm allowed to say. right now he hasn't told me one way or another. neil: he doesn't mind, you, he doesn't mind you going on the stump for mitt romney and to the degree you have shown your support? >> no. and he realizes that we're different people. there are many things that i will support, many causes that i will champion that he has championed for years. but we won't always be the same. and i consider the politics of the election to be the strategy for trying to get the best person, the next person between governor romney and obama is stark. i dd worry about 23 million people out of work. i worry about businesses are terrified of this president. i think we have to have a change in direction for the country. while ron paul was my first pick, i'm very happy to be supporting governor romney and i think he will make a difference. neil: do you think he is the before shot at getting serious tax budget reform? the argument for, getting an extension, senator, in all the tax rates that expire, spending cuts, is, that, if it could be cobbled together with a deal to seriously reform the tax code, the whole budget process, mitt romney is the guy to do it? conversely they say punting on this isn't the answer. it would hurt a president-elect romney if that were to come to pass. what do you think? >> i'm of the opinion rather than trying to get overall tax reform in one big huge package, that will take a year after romney's elected. my advice to him, break it up into pieces and immediately start passing something to show the american people we will help them. corporate nng tax, many democrats agree we should lower it. why don't we lower the corporate income tax and not make it part of some 2,000 page bill. let's just lower the corporate income tax and if people say, that will add to the deficit, let's all offset it with spending cuts. neil: what about the romney position, when it comes to, with lowering taxes for across board particularly for the rich? that it will be revenue neutral? i take enough credits deductions allowances away. it is a wash. the rich will remain paying 60% of the taxes as they do now? but his big emphasis seems to be in these debates, senator, it is revenue neutral. that struck many as a surprise, and they were expecting a big tax cut and now they fear looking at big tax cut. might not be a simpler tax system but but won't be a big tax cut. what do you feel about that. >> revenue neutral tax cuts don't excite me. i want to stimulate the private sector by leaving more money in the private sector. when i campaign around kentucky, ohio, new hampshire i want more money left in the pockets of people who earned it. neil: he is not doing that. he is not doing that. >> well, i will have my voice. that will be my voice because my voice will be, we balance it. i don't want to add to the deficit either, but we balance it with spending cuts. i'm for getting rid of deductions. neil: senator, i'm sorry, he doesn't talk as much about that. i'm not saying vaguely, you don't know what specifically he will cut. pbs is one of them. go ahead. >> the reason i make the point is, that everybody's hassling governor romney will your deductions add up to enough to balance the tax reforms so it is revenue neutral? my point would be first, we want more money left in the private sector so it doesn't have to be neutral. if you want it to balance so it doesn't add to the deficit let's cut government spending. that should be the message. whenever we grown the economy we lowered rates for ebb. we got rid of deductions, when we lowered the rate, under reagan we cut the unemployment rate in half and several years of growth of five or 6%. to get 12 million jobs you can't be revenue neutral. i say lower taxes for everybody and cut government spending. neil: there is a concept. getting growth of five or 6%. there was a time we did that during the reagan years and boom years coming out of recession, exactly what we did quarter in, quarter out. by comparison that is five times faster than the economy is growing right now. you think that was then and can't happen now? when we come back with rand paul, how specifically it can happen now. stick around. for many, nexium helps relieve heartburn symptoms caused by acid flux disease. osteoporosis-red bone fractures and low magnesium levels have been seen with nexium. possible side effects include headache, diarea, and abdominal pain. other serious stomach conditions may still exist. talk to your doctor about nexi. >> if they succeed and are elected in january and immediately repeal what we've done in regard to medicare and health care, your premiums will go up on average $312 a year immediately, for those on medicare right now. that's what will happen. medicare trust fund will become insolvent in 2016. neil: i never know where they get these numbers but anyway, rand paul heard that. what do you think of that, rand? >> i think medicare everybody agrees medicare is about $35 trillion in the hole as is and has to be reformed. i told the president, face-to-face, a year and a half ago, that if he would come together with us and reform, we could save medicare and save social security, that he would be elected in a landslide. several republicans told him this and he chose not to work with us. and i think that is really the failure of leadership is. he hasn't reached out to us at all. he doesn't invite republicans to do anything. neil: senator, i think you have had, counted a failure among republicans and you experienced this. you come up with a very bold proposal. let's get being namby-pamby about this. look for a big cut first year. be substantial and quit pussyfooting. they left you at the altar. not everyone. i remember that phenomenon. i deeply admired your guts but they didn't want to go out with you on the 30 rail there. >> well, you know, i think entitlements, if we don't fix them, and paul ryan has been pretty bold talking about how to fix entitlements. neil: he was the house version of you. they did the same to him. you think he would have, you know, did he use his deodorant that day. everyone avoided him. >> well, you know, i'm of the opinion that all of the old days are gone. the day where you could scare people and say, oh, republicans will take away your medicare. neil: you're right, you're right. absolutely right. here we go again. i want, if republicans really mean what they say and i think they do, and democrats mean what they say about eventually getting entitlements under control and i actually want to say i believe they do, is it just the election we've got to get past, to each side, things calm down and that's when we get something done or what? >> i fear maybe things will have to get worse in our country and we'll have to approach a debt crisis before people will be serious about it because people do worry about the politics of this. they're afraid to say that the age for social security or the age for medicare needs to gradually rise in order to save these programs. people are still afraid to say that. but i think if you're honest, i think right now the election and the population has changed where i think they actually will reward people who are honest and who admit we have problems and say, yes, republicans and democrats just need to throw out the politics and let's o ahead and fix these problems. neil: well you know, i'm not blowing you smoke, senator but the reason why i always enjoyed chatting with you call them as you see them and get risk of getting rapped on both sides. i mention the republican thing. you criticized romney approach on defense spending not giving an inch and something has to give there. there is certainly room for cutting in defense. that brought out everybody and uncle in the conservative moment, no, no. defense is sacrosanct. you were saying it isn't. it should be the part of what should be looked at in every budget overhaul. >> ultimate compromise. only way you ever balance the budget, conservatives like myself believe national defense is very important, compromise, not every dollar is spent on the military is sacred and well-spent. liberals is not every dollar on welfare is well spent. we compromise and bring both down. we do compromise in washington. we raise military spending and raise domestic spending every year. that's why we're a trillion dollars in the hole. neil: we can find a middle ground. not that i could broker a deal, sometimes, senator falls on me to save the country. maybe what we can do is what you're saying. democrats should be open to reforming entitlements andd3 at least slowing their growth. okay, republicans should not be so dogmatic about defense, can't be touched. that alone would get us moving toward an endgame here. but we don't. it is, the election magically going to present that opportunity? >> well, i think what's happening is circumstances will make people address this. circumstances are getting worse. entitlements are growing so rapidly they will consume all of the money in the budget within a few years. so i think circumstances will tell all of us we have to do it. to me it is inevitability. i don't care whether you're republican or democrat, it is inevitability you will have to fix entitlements because there's not enough young people and there is lot of old people. there is demographic shift and we're living longer. these are facts and they're inescapable. the question is, will we do it with this election or are we going to wait until things get worse and we begin printing up so much money, that prices begin to rise dramatically and everybody is worried about a chaotic situation or whether we fix it in a reasonable rational way, gradually, but get started now. that's the real question, whether we wait for chaos or we do it now. neil: senator, thank you, very, very much. good seeing you again. >> thank you, neil. neil: senator rand paul. he touched on a couple of things i emphasize before we cut away, very, very quickly. it is easy to blame democrats. it is easy for the democrats to blame republicann. i'm not here to blame anyone. i want to stress here, guys we've got a big ol' pile of problems that have come up over decade of sort of blind side he hadly spending money we didn't have and never telling the people the truth. the direction we're in to the senator's point is a direction can not be sustained not with money we have, and promises we made. both have to be changed now. follow the wings. [ male announcer ] eligle for medicare? that's a good thing, but it doesn't cover everhing. only about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. so consider an aarp medicare, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like a standardized medicare supplement plans, they pick up some of what medicare doesn't pay. and save you up to thousds of dollars in out-of-pocket costs. calloday to request a free decision guide to help you better understand what medaris all about. and which aarp medicare supplement plan works best for you. with these types of plans, you'll be able to visit any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare pients... plus, the are no networks, and you'll nev need a referral to see a specialist. there's a range of plans to choose from, too. anthey all travel with you. anywhere in the country. join the millions who have already enrolled in the only medicare pplement insurance plans endorsed by aarp, an organizatn serving the needs of peoe 50 and over for generations... and provided by unitedhealthcare insurance coany, which has over 30 years of experience behind it. call today. remember, medicare supplement insurance helps cover some of what medicare doesn't pay -- expenses that cou really add up. these kindof plans could save you up to thousands in out-of-pocket costs... you'll be ablehoose any doctor who accepts medicare patients. and you ner need refrals. with all the good years ahead, look for the experience and commitment to go thdistance with you. call now to request your free decision guide. this easy-to-understand guide will answer some of your questions, and help you find the aarp medicare supplement plan that's right for you. neil: in the fourth time is the charm. the final debate. the third one between between obama and romney now called the rubber match. this is for all the marbles. whether the meter is moved coming keep in mind that romney forces have told us economic policy, a growing debt and spending problems and international security issue, they may be right. begin at ahmadinejad has said we are a joke. it is an issue with global security implications. stay with us. we said we would be on your money. we will continue. gerri willis. tonight swing state florida in the mitt romney column. a new "fox news poll" showing the romney ryan ticket pulling ahead of obama-biden in florida, the biggest bateground state. the "orlando sentinel" today, central florida's biggest paper endorsing the gop challenger despite supporting obama in 28. is florida a done deal for mitt? let's ask. byron york, chief political correspondent for the "washington examiner". doug holtz-eakin,merican ac