Yes, of course. And 3, if you buy this as a high think game and im. Busy absolutely, sure that mr. Borton, as we know him, we know here were pretty bridget many years over here. Hes not a gambler. So how did we get to this point . And where do we go from here . And what about putin intensions of hope . Cracking down on opposition . And closing the country is oldest Civil Rights Group. All this, im more on conflict, so i got the piano welcome to conflict own though, in your opinion, how likely is russia to launch a fresh incursion into ukraine . In my opinion, its totally unlikely because its not. And the russian agenda never was never could be not at this point. Certainly i dont know how things will develop in the future because the ukrainian issue as an international problem, as the problem of russian Political Development does exist, of course. But for now, i dont see any chance for that to happen. So the option isnt even on the table at the moment as far as youre concerned. I dont mean the option is on the table at the moment. I mean that the problem does exist. And what russia is trying to achieve now, its actually to postpone this problem, maybe in the best case to remove it for the future. But the means to use and now are said to say it taken from the classical diplomacy. When you need some kind of demonstration in order to get the attention of your counterparts to launch a sensible and substantial conversation. So thats the whole rationale for the steady build up of forces around ukraine on land z and there. 100000 soldiers on russians border with ukraine. Its all just attention seeking. Is it . Its mostly about to create a situation when americans, the nature of large, but in particular, americans would understand that the reason issue in europe, which should be addressed. And this is not the ukrainian issue, this is an issue about how youd have been security has been arranged after the cold war. And this is a very complicated thing. So russia tried to raise this question many, many times before, including in ninetys, especially in 2002000 pounds. But the problem was that no one even paid attention. No, no one, listen to that. And the ideas which russia tried to promote were not just rejected, they were simply ignored. And unfortunately, the end of the day rationally the ship. As i read it, understood that the only way to get attention to launch a discussion is to demonstrate force. And since the west is very much obsessed with ukraine in particular. So ukraine in this regard, sort of to said, but this rather instrumental that i wanted to get to the west attention. They drew up a list of demands to nato, which they knew would be acceptable, and then threatened dire and unspeakable consequences if they did turn them down, which of course, it did. So what was that all about creating a pre pretext for war . Well, its not a great thank you, prepare for war and Something Else because you say that those demand, certain acceptable, which i agree. And of course in the format as they were put on the table, i cannot imagine that any kind of agreement from the need to cite the from the american site. But look at what happened since those demands were. Busy raised and were formulated already now despite the fact that the cd or political crisis and Security Affairs crisis is in place in europe already. And now we have us acceptance and us interest to discuss issues which americans serve last year. Rejected 2 or 3 months ago. I mean the, those technical military, Technical Details to say so about security, about placement of our mom and the units in eastern europe. So conventional arms control and so on. So this is just after the those the months were put. So of course, this diplomatic process continues and we see that this part of his theory in the west and despite all very foreign positions because they are. But no one wants to should, should the door shut the door. And i think we are on the way to something new, it will not have in the media. And of course, assuming that the talks continue between moscow and washington, how much progress can they actually make, given that russia is demanding a right to veto, that it doesnt have a nose, it doesnt have. How far can they go . So far there are no negotiations actually so far we see diplomatic maneuvering around the crisis in a classical style. So we can remember Something Like this both from the cold war time and even earlier from the earlier periods of diploma classical diplomacy. I dont think we are there yet. So the real negotiations about the substance. I mean security arrangements in europe in eastern europe, but larger than the europe per se, will probably start later. And before it will arrive, we will see more of demonstrations, including from the russian side. Now, for example, and billows big military exercise will be conducted in february. Its not the launch of war, of course, but its to demonstrate the commitment. So the said to defend its interest at the same time i see that the both sides the blow months. They have very. Busy strong and very firm instructions so far, not to engage in any, any talks about compromises, but they accumulate possibilities. And after a while, certainly we will start substantial talk. It will been not the talk about this those the months. Exactly. But about how to change the basic principles of European Security arrangements as they emerged. 999 to 91. You say, yeah, as they emerged at that time, how much of this goes back to the russian claim that nato made a promise about not expanding eastwoods and then broke it . Thats not borne out by the facts. Is it, you know, in russia there is obstinate actually on so everybody knows, and that was also documented, not in the written obligation, of course, but we have transcripts from negotiations for the time that us were presented. This and german representatives promised Mister Gorbachev that need to unify germanys need, the membership will not then model for the future expansion. And in this regard, this, this, those re medicines, this memory spoil the relationship. Now, on the russian side, its very important. But in the, in the happened that way, did it in 2014 interview. Gorbachev himself said the topic of nato expansion was not discussed at all. And it wasnt brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility, not a single east european lead a raise the issue, not even after the war, so back cease to exist in 991. That should have ended the matter, shouldnt it . Yes, absolutely. And thats why i also believe that this discussion is senseless. I think you can find a lot of references and the literature is reach now discussing what was said to exactly what was wrong with what was not promise. And those words by secretary baker know ange eastwards, they are well known, but again it doesnt matter anymore. Its psychological important. But its not important in terms of a real politics in terms of real bullet. Things one think is essential. The European Security arrangements, as they were formulated after the end of the cold war and after go off. So the soviet union where the fact of, based on the phenomenon of nature as the key nature of the euro, atlantic institutions as key elements as the base, as the core for European Security. Which man the more native the more security. And that this principle was developed since that pretty linearly critic and secondly, russia initially soviet union, then russia, without big into the asthma, accepted that at the beginning. But later on, changed minds significantly and starting from 9 to 9, this russian establishment and rush leadership. Why, why are very much concerned and unhappy with native expansion and claim this even body else and by the special lives im going to put you in and hes on 2 rods. They made it many, many times. I didnt have a so. Busy we see that made the yeah, but it says that if you take ukraine moscows own actions have done far more to push ukrainian towards nato than anything the alliance that happens. Why doesnt the criminal realize that up until russia invaded crime in 2014, there was very little appetite among ukrainians for joining the alliance. In 2013, less than 20 percent of the country supported membership. Today its almost 60 percent. So the kremlin shot itself in the foot, didnt it . Yeah, of course, the duration since the 14 deteriorated significantly. But frankly, i dont believe that the international, Big International issue issues, especially those are referred to geo politics and international security. A big Scale International security should be decided based on the opinion polls which are changing quite frequently. So what happened . 2014 was not the beginning of the process. That was an important benchmark of the process, which as i referred to earlier, started immediately after the cold war. The idea that nature is available for everybody and nature is equal to European Security. That creates a situation which at the end of the day lead to the, to the performance we have now. So what is nato done in the last year or so that has brought this crisis to ahead . You mean the this particular price is the crisis around around raja right . Yeah. Yeah. Nate, nate, or rather i dont believe we should speak about native because nathan is just a bureaucratic organization, but particular members which play the most Important Role decided the role with regard to ukraine in particularly of course we see increase of military cooperation, military delivery to ukraine, from a particular need to members, be turner can be United States b, u k. And the military capacity of the plan is increasing. And of course, rush military who are responsible for those issues. They take that take into account and other things which have not to do with ukraine, but i think has a lot to do with the bigger picture. Is that in 2021, 2 things happens which demonstrate that they need to it inside the situation is actually slightly different than need 2 officials and they to brokers who would love to demonstrate. I mean, ive got a son and a creation of this all course grouping when the United States basically decided for themselves or to do the same. And im going to stand. And i think both of those events brought russian leadership to conclusion that this is right time to start to discuss with americans how to probably transform the role of nathan did it being security. Why . Why not make america . Because america started to look weak in their eyes, is that it . They thought they could apply more pressure, not theyre not, not, no, no, no, no, its not about the weakness, its about priorities. America is strong and i think no one denies it. But the priorities are changing and the nature as aligns is always the less prioritized for the us. Now in the iraq of a big confrontation with china. Which means that probably the general basic view on how to arrange European Security and the National International security. My change, its not about the weakness at all. What if moscow doesnt get to the security guarantees or the level of confidence from eventually negotiations with america that its, its looking for . What, what would it settle for . Lets start by asking that question in relation to ukraine. What would it settle for a continuation of the status quo where nobody actually advances ukraines membership of nato, that its just parked somewhere and left and nothing more happens with moscow saddle for that you know, thats a very interesting mismatch and perception in the worse than here because everything, even from our conversation, everything we hear from the west is that this is ukrainian crisis crisis around the great. So the ukrainian issue is central to this and rational visions, according to the western calculations, are about to, to do something with you. Great. Here is different here it is seen as, as a general payback. So to say for 30 plus years or for development in europe and around europe. And then attempts to renegotiate even using the demonstration of force. And even using on conventional means, like this, those, the month, renegotiate the principles. And that to your question, i dont believe that at the end of the day, it might ends with nothing. Because russia put the question very, very strongly in variable. So in one or another form, it will be negotiations. Im sure. Certainly no one in moscow expects to get legally binding guarantees, as it is claim. This is a well known initial position in diplomacy is a normal normal phenomenon. But we see already now that debate in the west is starting to change, not about the ukraine, but about the principal. Whether its so important to the west to keep need those doors open as it is, is it was, is it really worth doing . And we see that the american diplomacy, if we go beyond rhetoric, is actually much more flexible as russian is. So i guess that we will read. So not immediately, but relatively soon, arrive to the substantial negotiation, which will be based then it will be based on compromise is not yet, but may still account if its a dangerous game, isnt it ramping up the tension between 2 Nuclear Super pass . Its easy to miss read signals, jump to the wrong conclusions. This is the act of a responsible leader to create and maintain tension. And he seems to be enjoying the tension in november. He said the pressure on the west was working. This is the put in our recent warnings have been hard and the effect is noticeable. Tensions have risen. Russia should maintain the tensions as long as possible is not really a response, a black from a responsible leader. This is a way which we so to say forgot during the last d keith, when we had an absolute. Busy dominance of the United States and its allies in international affairs. So that period it was impossible to act like this overs live. But if we look at the history of International Relations is not unique at all. So its rather a normal element of hard bargaining. And if we look at the core of the substance, so not just the means process or ukranian situation, but this is an attempt to revive and to correct International System which is not satisfactory for some of the very powerful actors. Okay. Happened on that. My moscow talk to a lot about threats from the west and im asking what kind of threats . Because mr. Boot has been telling the world for years that the west is in decline. Its decadent its weak liberalism, its core ideology is in his words obsolete. If the western thats much trouble, what kind of danger could it possibly pose to russia . The arguments dont that up, do they you know, this discussion about liberal is non liberal this another think . I think its a little bit more philosophical and when decisions about geopolitical most are being taken. The simpler than this very sophisticated argumentation. But the weakness. Ok. The west is of course not as far full as it used to be 25 years ago. No doubt about that but. Busy the threat, the military danger or the general danger. Again, i just can remind you that the miss a boot in and the rest of the officials. They keep say they kept saying that since very, very long time. But no one at all, wanted to listen to that and they just said, oh, come on that from the russian russian problems we, we should not take much much attention to that. So and unfortunately yes, what put in sad publicly, openly in november that we need to increase pressure to achieve some kind of interest of our counterparts. The listen for the month. Thats unusual. I agree. But that is a product of very long, very fruitless attempts to get it in a different way. Is it dangerous . Yes, of course. A serious kid, but this is a high stay games and im absolutely sure that mr. Boot and as we know him, when we know him for pretty, pretty many years already. He is. He is not a gambler. He is a very calculate the blair. And he is very much aware about old, dangerous, which you refer to about the relationship between the nickel superpowers. Very much. In the past few weeks, russia has been lecturing the west a lot about not respecting the treaties its signed, but its own actions have shown the kremlin feels totally free to violate, written commitments and pledges. It will look no further than the invasion and occupation of part of georgia in 2008 the seizure and annexation of crime in 2014, in violation of the nato russia finding act. Plenty of other agreements. Does the criminal believe that thats all being forgiven . And forgotten, its not about forgiveness, its not about to for good to to forget Something Else. And i think exactly what you say is very important because the number of violations over written or oral agreements reached after the cold war and both sides demos, great. One simple thing that this system as it the merged, did not guarantee that the security again, the main thing to agreements. And it should be changed and should be adapted to the our balance to something could due to circumstances which are objective. Otherwise, we will continue in this way to, to blame each other for who violated what and to be absolutely assured that our, our truth is the only one and we need to get to true. There is another way to try to as, as it happened before. Busy through diplomacy in very durable and times in mankind, history to try to sit down and understand why it happened. And maybe something went wrong, went wrong after the cold war, when the west was totally euphoric and russia was depressed. And something going badly wrong in russia because the crisis at the moment goes hand in hand with what the economist magazine called last november a new era of russian repression. The russian Civil Rights Group memorial estimated the number of Political Prisoners in russia at around 450, comparable to the soviet union in the 1980s. At least it didnt tell me to put in shot the organization down in december. Is the world right to conclude that the signals in increasingly authoritarian rule from the kremlin the rule in russia is changing. But of course i would not accelerate that, but i dont belong to those who are happy about these developments. So personally, i think its, its, its the wrong wrong direction. We should be should be changed and will be changed inevitably after a while. The question is different. Do we need to focus on that on the Domestic Development in russia or in china or in the United States where whatever, in order to try to achieve more balanced International System. So after the gold war, that was an idea that there are universal values, we should be implemented everywhere and that will be guaranteed for more or less stable peace and security. And it didnt work as we, as we see. So for probably now we should separate a little bit between Domestic Development in particular countries and international arrangements. We should be chief whatever happens inside those countries. If you want to look at, if its been good to have your own complex own, thank you very much for your time. Thank you. A with blue blue. With who do i fax . In most parts of the world, or at least 4 months a year, youre experiencing some with theres plenty of sea water, but do you sell a nation . Its Energy Intensive and expensive. A burling base to start up shows us. It doesnt have to be this way, global 3000 in 90 minutes on d w. O. In wide wing extremist, i suggested again world might be a couple late and burned in south africa. People with disabilities more likely to lose their jobs. In the pandemic black lives matter of shine, a spotlight on racially motivated police violence, same sex marriage is being legalized in more and more countries, discrimination inequality are part of everyday life. For many we ask why . Because life is diversity to make up your own mind. D. W for mines a lot of issue when i arrived here, i slept with a single people in a room as a 9th in it was harlow spear. I even got white harris at with learning the german language help. Yeah. A lot. This kids to me and critical but to nicky, to and track with you want to know their story. Val, migrants verifying and reliable information for my grants. A soccer is a sport of the colors and the children in this mountain village. Oh them all. But can everyone be a dog with them regardless of gender . Where is blue . The color of her favorite. But sex is traditions, prevent her from going to games and playing with an insurmountable obstacle. A little girl. Look all on the peak. Starts february, 4th on d, w. Ah, ah ah, this is the w news live from berlin to night, a military escalation in the crisis over ukraine. The pentagon, sending 3000 troops to beef up the american present in europe, russia denouncing that deployment as destructive saying it will only increase tensions. Also coming up would be goldberg taken off air over a holocaust comment. Us superstar saying nazi persecution of the jews was not about race. Now the Memorial Center wants her to come along
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