the clutzy neighbor next door. killing thousands of my own citizens--did i do that? next up, fidel castro--is he still alive. we're going to match him up with the principal of "saved by the bell." if they're both alive or if thereabout deadthey're both dead they're going to retire in arizona. and finally the ghost of hugo chavez will be paired up by the ghost of patrick swayze in the movie "ghost." they'll strap on comfy track suits. it will be awkward at first. but once that clay starts spinning it will be peace and harmony. i'm still trying to decide which spice girl is good for ahmadinejad. i'm done talking now. >> michael: thank you for joining us in "the war room." have a great night. have a terrific weekend. cenk: welcome to "the young turks." bold new ideas for republicans at cpac. >> it's time for liberty to expand government must shrink. cenk: we look into the heart of darkness in a new documentary. >> we know you know they're the next attack against the united states but we're not going to force you to tell us what it is, because it might create a bad image for us. that's not a close call for me. cenk: torture not a close call for cheney. insight into cheney, very interesting. 9/11, we had box cutters on the plane. t.s.a. has a brilliant idea, let's allow knives back on planes. >> is there something that scares you every day? >> yes not pocket knives. >> it's not pocket knives. >> it's carney's small hands. go time. ♪ theme ♪ >> all right with that welcome to "the young turks." let's have a fun show. let's start the with president obama. he says he's reaches out and going to get beyond all the problems have washington. obama: the press has been reporting. the truth of the matter is all i've been doing is calling up folks and trying to see if we can break through some of the gobbledygook of our politics here. cenk: let's see how that's working out for him. conservatives have this whole cpac convention in washington right now. are they looking to get along with the president? let's see if they're in a reaching out mood. >> first the republican party needs to be a conservative party with no apologies. second, it must recruit candidates who are not only principle's conservatives, but articulate, as well. if we don't have candidates who can communicate these principles well, we're going to lose election after election. third, we must embrace the changing demographics of america, not by diluting our principles, but by reaching out to all americans. if there are those in the republican party who cannot subscribe to the principles, let them go their way. >> we should reach out to everybody, but if you don't agree with what i say get! are you sure you're going to reach out to all? >> american way means we don't take hard-earned money from your family's pocket to provide a better standard of living to those who are no willing to work. cenk: yeah! let's reach out except those bums, i don't want them anywhere near us. bold new ideas by the republicans. let's bring in joe williams, the deputy chief of the boston globe's washington bureau. excellent guest on "the young turks." joe, how are you my friend? >> good to see you again cenk. cenk: great to see you. let me give you more fresh ideas. i'm going to play a clip from marco rubio and let's see all the wonderful new ideas they have here. >> what i sense from a lot of people i've talked to is this fear that somehow america has changed, our people ever changed, we've reached this point in time and we have too many people in america that want too much from government that maybe the changes that have happened are irarrearsable and will never be the same again. i want you to understand that's not true. i'll tell you what the criticism on the left is going to be, number one he drank too much water, number two he didn't offer new ideas. there's the fallacy of it. we don't need a new idea. there is an idea, the idea is called america and it still works. cenk: joe, two things i love about that. one is they'll criticize me for not having any ideas and i -- you're kind of right, i don't have any ideas. i got nothing. america! and that's the other thick crow look, is that what it's boiled down to, you just come down and do a political speech and say you know what i'm in favor are? america. >> it struck me, this was the first cpac, not the first conservative conference, but the first cpac i've been to. it reminded me of one of those monsters of rock tour where everybody goes to hear the hits. you don't go to hear the old stuff. you want to hear the old stuff you don't want to hear the new material. you want to hear low taxes deregular allegation, smaller government. you don't want to hear the new stuff, immigration reform, reaches out to minority voters or doing something about the medical expansion. even rand paul, his remarks were well-received for the most part but fell flat when he started talking about not jail kids for marijuana use. that kind of sent a chill over the crowd. basically, cpac from estimation is when you go to hear the hits and feel good that you joined in the conservative movements five day conference. cenk: it's interesting you mentioned rand paul. we've got both sides of what you mentioned here. i want to play the clip where he's playing the old hits. this would be "born in the u.s.a." if i were it were springsteen. >> the gop of old has grown steal and moss covered. the republican party has to change by going forward to the classical and timeless ideas in our constitution. it's time for us to revive reagan's law for liberty to expand, government must shrink. we must have a message that is broad, our vision must be broad and that must be based on freedom. cenk: oh smaller government and freedom, i didn't see that coming. was there a single speech that did not mention ronald reagan? >> i would be hard-pressed to find one. that one reminded me of the old joe biden riff about giuliani where he said subject verb, 9/11, you're trying to build this event and the speech really as moving forward. their slogan had something about america's future, and you're doing nothing but hearkening back to the old idealogy of the conservative party and movement and talking about ronald reagan every other sentence. that's not very forward-looking. none of the speeches talked about the very real, pressing challenges we had medical reform with health care costs driving the economy into bad places and the fact that the voting public is going to look vastly different than the cpac attendees do. cenk: that's a great point. let's show the rand paul part of the speech that you mentioned earlier where -- and i'm curious how well this was received. this was one of the very few moments where they actually talked about doing something new. >> ask the facebook generation whether we should put a kid in jail for the non-violent crime of drug use and you'll hear a resounding no! ask the facebook generation if they want to bail out two big to fail banks with their tax dollars and you'll hear a hell no. there is nothing conservative about bailing out wall street. cenk: i'm curious about that on two fronts, one how did the pot discussion go with the crowd and attendees and number two he talked about there's nothing conservative about bailing out banks except almost the entire republican party is in the pocket of the banks and i wonder if the audience realizes that disconnect. >> that was a perfect example of disconnect, because you did have something new. talking about not jail kids for marijuana use which the old it's an older crowd and they're not with that, because that's not something they grew up with. they believe every drug use should be punished to the severest extent of the law. we're talking about an older generation. the too big to fail argument resonates. these are folks who shake their fist at the big guy at wall street with that that came home to they will. but also the irony even further, if you want to take it one ironic step even further the fact is that the bailout occurred under george bush, the last republican president, not president obama so that kind of irony was lost on it. the whole thing was a muddle. you had them talking about the need for are new ideas but hearkening back to all these old things and when he did bring up a new idea, no reaction from the crowd. cenk: my favorite congressman never at a loss for saying something totally interesting out of the most left field you could possibly mention, out of the stadium. he's going all the way back to vietnam. let's watch. >> i'm not going to debate the merits of whether we should or should not have gone to vietnam but vietnam was winnable, but people in washington decided we would not win it! cenk: he's still talking about vietnam. is it because of the older crowd, are they like oh, yeah, i remember when the departments wouldn't let us win vietnam. >> speak to the smack of hippie, but vietnam really? wasn't that war over sometime ago? it also talks the fact that this is an older crowd. it's an older crowd, this is a picture, a snapshot of the conservative voter of who romney won handily. here and there, you would find a few younger people, minority voters, very clean cut professional looking nothing like the occupy wall street crowd who would be very happy to upset the apple cart at the convention. the older crowd, it was a with it wango tango. that's the kind of red meat they expect. they're uncomfortable with new stuff, don't even try it. cenk: they're going back to like being crosby. all right joe williams, a pleasure as always. >> thank you. >> thank you for sharing your excellent experience of the cpac. >> my excellent adventure. cenk: when we come back, it was box cutters that did it in on 9/11, but the t.s.a. that makes you get rid of your toothpaste and take off your shoes say go ahead, bring them on the plane. >> john pistole will play this video for lawmakers today showing who you small amount of chemicals can put a very big hole in a piece of metal like a fuselage in a plane. (vo) the answer in a moment. brought to you by expedia. expedia helps 30 million travellers a month find what they are looking for one traveller at a time. cenk: t.s.a. administrator john pistole said we're going allow knives back on planes. that took a lot of people by surprise. it was box cutters that did us in on 9/11. today he had to defend his decision in front of a homeland security subcommittee and here is part of his testimony. >> pistole's decision has sparked outrage. the union that represents 44,000t.s.a. officers, officers, flight attendants have all voiced outrage. >> it is the wrong way to go, and we will not stop until this policy reversed. >> yesterday american airlines became the third major carrier to ask t.s.a. to abandon it's plan. congressman has introduced to bill to stop the agency from getting its idea off the ground. >> t.s.a. will give this blade a boarding pass and tell this other blade that it is banned. the t.s.a. policy makes no sense. cenk: all right we'll get to john pistole's testimony in a second and hear from the flight attendants. let me tell you what is allowed on planes. blades shorter than six center meters blades with a width no more than half inch at whitest point. the knife does not have a locking or fixed blade and knife does not have a molded grip. if it does not have those, it is allowed back in. when they asked pistole about this, he said that's not what keeps me up at night, it's other risks. >> in your intelligence briefs, is there something that scares you every day? >> yes and it's not pocket knives. >> what is it? >> non-metallic improvised explosive devices bombs that are very small concealable. >> he will play this video for lawmakers today showing how a small amount of chemicals can put a very big hole in a piece of metal like a fuselage in that plane. pistole said the addition of hardened cockpit doors has made it extremely difficult to highjack a plane with a knife. cenk: let's bring in president of the southwest airlines flight attendants union joining us from dallas texas. thank you for joining us. >> thank you for having me. cenk: john pistole says i have the hardened cockpit doors. it's going to be ok. what's your answer to that? >> he's right. we've discussed that before, they're not probably going to be able to get behind that cockpit door and get it open and we agree with that. that's not the issue. the issue is making us safe, and so far especially since 9/11, there have been zero incidents of any type of incident in the cabin like that, so why change this now? i've also told you before, why land an airplane with people harmed injured maybe even dead in the back of cabin and the pilots are just fine? it just doesn't make sense at all. cenk: i mentioned you are in dallas, texas. that appears to be a giant capitol behind you. i'm guessing you're actually in d.c. at the hearings, right? >> yes sir, i am. i came up to d.c. and they're trying to convert me he to be a red skin fan. cenk: probably not going to work. >> not going to happen. cenk: i do have an answer for why they are doing this, but want to give you a lifted of things no longer prohibited. the knives, knitting needles scissors matches, light years,. >> drivers no longer than seven inches long. my guess is they're wasting a lot of time taking arpaneting needles from people and knives seem crazy but there's probably a ton of people with swiss army knives and he's saying i want to get behind that, it's a giant hassle not really causing a problem. what would be your honest to that. >> i understand what he's trying to say. in 2005 they started letting scissors knitting needles on, we weren't happy with it, but looking at people coming through, you know if you have a maybe 10 guys walk on they all have one screwdriver in their bag or a pair of scissors in their bag that's not normal, and you should be taking a look at that. it never really bothered me that you do have those coming on, because nine times out of 10, they are with a woman or someone that's going to need those doing knitting, so i think it's ludicrous at this point to then have all these knives come on and basically what you're saying is everybody, it doesn't matter who you are, whether or not or not you're on a list, been profiled in whatever way they profile you, you're going to be coming on with that knife or those other items and that's just not what we want to see at all. cenk: i want to show you some of john pistole's testimony. this one they asked him about a scored nateed takeover and highjacking of a plane. i want to get your reaction. >> well, sir you're asking if i think whether individuals with those small pocket knives can take over an aircraft, i don't think so, because of other security we have in place including officers armed in the cockpit, the hardened cockpit doors to the response of the valiant crew and passengers. if we had a group of terrorists, if you will, get on a plane here in the u.s., without anybody else in the u.s. intelligence, law enforcement community knowing about those they haven't come up on anybody's radar, then we've had a failure of the national security program, rather than just at a check point. >> do you take that to mean don't worry about it, the flight attendants will take care of it. they might be in trouble but at least it won't affect the pilot. >> i do. to be honest with you, you know, john has a really hard job. i admire him for what he's doing, but it's really arrogant to look at it that way. if you look back before 9/11, you know, look, someone failed miserably on the security job then and now what we're saying and this is what he's saying, he's saying that if this happens, something goes wrong on this we failed miserably. we've proven that we can fail miserably and that can start with 9/11. i'm not the one but those that are not willing to listen or learn from history are doomed to rhett it, and that is very scary when i listen to that. cenk: stacy martin, president of southwest airlines flight attendants union. thank you for shedding light on this. we appreciate it. >> thump you have a good day. cenk: you, as well. cenk: when we come back, the heart of darkness, a new documentary of dick cheney. that co director's going to be in the studio and we'll ask him about what really motivates dick dick cheney. >> my main fault. well, i don't spend a lot of time thinking about my faults, i guess would be the answer. (vo) connect with the young turks with cenk uygur. >> it's go time. cenk: tomorrow night show time is going to present a come tory about dick cheney. i can't wait to tivo it. i've got to watch that. it's got great interviews from cheney and rumsfeld. >> integrity. >> what do you consider your main fault? >> my main fault. well, i don't spend a lot of time thinking about my faults, i guess would be the answer. >> if you're not prepared to have critics and to be subject to criticism then, you know, wrong line of work. if you want to be loved go be a movie star. cenk: man that guy hasn't changed at all. it's a fascinating look. the co-ed door joins us in the studio, great to have you here. he's also worked on superman. and the bio pick on president obama in the democratic convention nicely done. how did you guys get there? >> we first approached him in august of 2011, and at that time, he didn't say yes but didn't say no, either. we were told that patience was the key to, you know, sort of getting an answer out of him. ultimately, it wasn't until february of 2012 when he finally agreed. cenk: i'm curious why he would agree. was there -- ok, let me ask you this. was there any ground rules? >> no, there were no ground rules, no. >> interesting. >> no. >> so, and did he ever tell you guys why you as opposed to i'm sure he must have been asked many times for interviews along these lines. >> i'm not sure, you know, if he has. i'm not sure if he'd been approached for something like this. i don't know that anyone has -- certainly no one's done a film or any type of piece on him with this, to this extent, you know. cenk: i wonder if he'll say yes to us. maybe we'll do a t.y.t. documentary on him. waterboarding, you got that in the movie. i want to show a clip. >> when you talk about drawing a line, you don't consider a prolonged period of creating the sensation of drowning, you don't consider? >> i don't tell us what terrorist attacks you would have let go forward because you didn't want to be mean and nasty fella. are you going to trade the lives of a number of people because you want to preserve your hunter? cenk: so totally unrepentant. >> totally unrepentant. there's a man of great conviction. cenk: for better or worse. i read a criticism of the movie where they said you should have done more foliums and said there was no ticking time bomb, you could use one of the instances where we tortured the guy in egypt and got the false information about iraq and used it to attack iraq. how do you respond? >> there often were follow ups which led to the same answers you know he's a man of great conviction, as i said, he was a man of very succinct answers and early on, we decided in the way we were going to make this film that we were going to milwaukee it the way we did where it wasn't going to be a hatchet job or fluff piece but we were going to concentrate on the elements of truth like you have people back up that were uncorroborated. cenk: what did you get out of it. you do the whole interview with him. you've seen a lot more than just what's in the documentary. what was your sense of dick cheney? >> my sense is that he he's a man who does not like to look back on the past. he likes to look forward. he he does not like to examine the possibility of mistakes that might have happened in the past or, you know, to even -- go ahead. cenk: isn't that amazing. >> it is. cenk: i've made probably a thousand mistakes in my life, and i can't -- it's a weird scene that you almost get out of the movie like no conscience on the torture waterboarding, et cetera and no conscience on thinking back maybe i should have done that a little different. hell, i did it, tortured, invaded the wrong country no conscience. is that an accurate read of it? >> i would say so. i think that that's the way that he lives his life, and that's the way that we all know that he operated in his career. cenk: tell me the up side. is dick cheney light and fluffy, you know, personally, like hey buddy, how are you doing big guy, let's go to a movie and have popcorn. >> one thing that surprised me the most about him the most was hishis wit and sense of humor. it's not usually on display for the general public, but he can be dryly funny. cenk: you didn't make the mistake of going hunting. >> no. cenk: great you want to see what's really funny, i'll shoot you in the face. be careful. i want to get back to the serious stuff on the w.m.d.'s. you have clips where he was proven wrong. let's watch a piece of it here. >> we didn't find stockpiles. we did find that he had the capability, and we believed he had the in tent. >> think of how often vice president cheney told us that we were in imminent danger from an attack from sadaam hussein because of arsenal of biological women and rebuilding of the nuclear weapons in iraq. >> that was the reason that we did it, and then we found out that we were duped! cenk: so there was no w.m.d. even if you have no conscience, you've got to at least say all right, well, my bad, i was wrong about that. he doesn't say that. >> no, he says that, you know, as other people in the film say that when the facts change around him, you know, the, you know, he will then sort of adapt his argument, so it became, you know, where it was earlier and previously had been we know for sure there's no doubt that there are w.m.d.'s in iraq, well, we know that sadaam hussein had the in tent to build w.m.d.'s. cenk: i always found that to be hilarious. if in his mind he could have had the in tent to build weapons at a later time. isn't that the whole entire world? couldn't you innovate ethiopia because many one of their leaders secretly in their mind had the intention to build a weapon at a later time? >> of course. cenk: it's amazing. one more thing about that. as i watched his reaction to that and whether in interviews in the past or in the movie i get a sense that he's more than that he's saying i was just making it up anyway, like i don't care that there was no w.m.d., because that wasn't the point. so like if w.m.d. was the point even dick cheney might think ooh, god, we got that one wrong. it's almost a tacid admission i never cared about it anyway, i wanted to invade the country no matter what. >> he would say that, you know, they didn't find stockpiles. they never found the evidence, but that they were there that we just didn't find the evidence of it. cenk: so full of it. i mean, and did you get -- all right, now i'm going to get more speculative. did you get any sense of his real motivation for invading iraq? >> i genuinely think that he thinks that he kept the country safe, and that it was -- i think that he became kite focused on keeping the country safe after 9/11. cenk: i don't believe it at all. i believe in his paranoid mind, the 1% doctrine written about if there's even a slight threat, i'll butcher everybody. that's the up side for cheney. the down side is iraq wasn't a threat. he knew that. we know they didn't have the weapons of mass destruction because we sold it to them and watched them destroy it. went into iraq partly because of the oil. of course he did. he's absolutely lying if he said he didn't. >> he talks about the 1% doctrine in the film. cenk: what does he say? >> he said it's true he did operate that way. you had to be 100% certain that there were no wmd's in order to be certain. cenk: oh, well, then. >> 99% certainty. cenk: under that philosophy, you would have a invade every single country in the world. the one country that while dick cheney was in charge built nuclear weapons was north carolina korea and we never invaded them. interesting. craig, one last question, is there any oil in north korea? >> is there any oil in north korea? i'm not an oil man. cenk: i'll answer it for you. no, there is no oil in north korea. interesting coincidence. from the new movie "world according to dick cheney," it premieres tomorrow night on show time. thank you for coming in. when we come back, an interesting discussion with gentleman giving shotguns to women to defend themselves. i disagree with that philosophy. there are two women hovering through his training. we will have a lively conversation when we come back. with award winning documentaries that take you inside the headlines. real, gripping, current. documentaries... on current tv. hershey's simple pleasures chocolate. 30% less fat, 100% delicious. [ male announcer ] it's red lobster's lobsterfest our largest selection of lobster entrees like lobster lover's dream or new grilled lobster and lobster tacos. come in now and sea food differently. visit redlobster.com now for an exclusive $10 coupon on two lobsterfest entrees. cenk: we're back on "the young turks." there's a bill in the senate the to ban assault weapons. they had a discussion about it today in the senate judiciary committee and it got heated. it passed 10-8, all the republicans voted. >> the first amendment shall apply only to the following books and not to the books that congress has deemed outside the protection of the bill of rights. >> one i'm not a sixth grader. senator, i've been on this committee for 20 years. i've looked at bodies that have been shot with these weapons approximate. this does not prohibit, you use the word prohibit, it exempts 2,271 weapons. isn't that enough for the people in the united states? cenk: damn, stuff just got real. all right. apparently not a lot of bipartisan agreement on that issue, but one man is taking things into his own hands in houston, texas. kyle copeland is executive director of arm citizens project.org. apparently they're having some issues over there. now, those are two people involved in kyle's program first, welcome everybody, and kyle, tell me what your program's a you will about. >> thanks for having us on. so, i'm the founder of a non-profit called the armed citizen project. we're doing two things, one a study where we're arming an entire neighborhood in houston high crime area and measure that increased perception of fire articles. the community has on crime rates. in the meantime, we are arming and training single women and vulnerable women in high-crime areas. cenk: let me start with cindy. dug through the program and why did you do that? >> yes i did go through the program, the reason why is i am a single mother. i live alone and i just wanted to know how to protect myself in the event that anything have did happen at my home that i would need to do so. >> all right now it's very understandable. i'm going to talk to you in a second about why i think it's a bad idea. maureen, what were you taught in the program and what did you get out of it? >> i was taught a greet deal about the weapon that i was going to be given and was taught how to protect myself. we had a tremendously experienced trainer dan and he taught us anything and everything about the gun. we spent a long day with him a lot of hours and we were able to practice with the weapon. cenk: so these are shotguns that you learned to use? >> yes, sir. cenk: ok. first, all right now before i get into why i think it's a bad idea kyle, these wouldn't be banned at all under any of these laws, it goes after assault rifles, not shotguns. are you ok with the law then? >> oh, absolutely not but that's not a fight that my organization's getting involved with. we're a charitable organization arming and training women so we're not interested in talking assault weapons. if you want to talk assault weapons, talk to the n.r.a. cenk: all right. fair enough. let's get to it. social science and met 16 in 2007 did a study and realized that states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates. let me give you one other fact. in the risk of homes the risk of homicide is three times higher in homes with fire arms. cindy, doesn't that scare you a little bit? >> no. i'm home alone. i'm more afraid of who's going to come to my door, which someday has already at 2:00, 3:00 in the morning that i didn't know. it took the police about 10 minutes to get there. i want to be able to defend myself and my son. who knows what could happen in those 10 minutes. cenk: cindy i got a son, too and a daughter. i'd be 10 times more scared, in fact, according to the numbers i should be 43 times more scared that he's going to get ahold of the gun and hurt himself. new england journal of medicine study, a gun kept in the home was 43 times more likely to be involved in the death of a member of the household than to be used in self defense. 43 times! >> put a gun lock on it. cenk: everybody says that. >> listen, we know people that drive cars more likely to get in car accidents. you're saying if a gun's in the home it's more likely to be used in like a suicide. cenk: and accidents. >> people driving are more likely to get involved in a car accident. i don't understand. cenk: i'll explain it to you. cars not meant to kill people. they're meant to drive from point a to point b. guns are meant to kill people. >> guns are flourished to stop crime. just pulling a gun on someone having a gun to use 90% of the time stops that crime from happening. cenk: you are 43 times more likely to get yourself killed if you've got a gun in the house protecting yourself. it's a fantasy. >> so, what is someone to do in that 30 minutes it takes for an officer to get there. you are on your own at that time. the people that think there shouldn't be private ownership of guns, they are simply pro rapist in my opinion. cenk: you are absurd. >> i'm the absurd one. cenk: i'm pro keeping your kids alive. if you've got a gun in the house, they're so much more likely to die. let me give you a study on that. ages 5-14, study done between 2003 and 2007. high gun states, your fantasy of everybody's got a gun yeah, kids dying on average 139 kid deaths in the high gun states, only 59 in the low gun states. eighty suicide in the high gun states, seven in the low gun states. 82 unintentional deaths in the high gun states and eight in the low gun states. you guys are unfortunately dead wrong. you are more likely to die if you've got a gun in the house. >> so if you're throwing in situations like we just had in houston where an untragedy where we had a 4-year-old that shot himself with his father's gun. if you're throwing that situation in where the father who was a drug dealer had stolen a handgun and left it out on the table passed out on drugs if you're considering that as being on the same level as legal gun owners owning weapons responsibly and storing them safely then you've got a context problem. cenk: you know what it is? you're using an extreme example but i can give you many more. >> i'm using extreme examples. >> you're saying that all gun owners that someday's going to die in the home. cenk: cindy i'm not saying that. >> no? cenk: no, not everybody is going to get killed, but you're more likely to get killed on that gun. >> i'm not out to kill anybody. i'm out to defend myself. >> exactly. if you're not trained on the weapon, well then of course, that accident can happen, but cindy and my case, we both have children and intend to train our children to be able to use it and to not be afraid of it. cenk: that's sump a terrible idea! how old is your child? when are you going to train them? how old is your child maureen? >> my child is three years old and i plan to, in toned show him how to use this weapon and how to protect himself. cenk: when? how old? >> when he's maybe five or six. cenk: oh, maureen, don't do it! you're going to train your kid to use a gun at five or six? you can ruin a five or 6-year-old. >> you would rather someone come into my home and me not be able to protect him. >> are you going to come and defend her when somebody breaks in? cenk: we have cops to do that. they're trained not your 5-year-old. >> it takes 10 minutes for them to arrive. >> i had shots fired outside my house. it took 45 minutes for police to arrive. we didn't know if someone was shot if bullets had gone through a wall somewhere. 45 minutes. when seconds count police are minutes away. >> he's probably not from hawn. cenk: i'm not from houston but unlike. >> he lives where everybody knows each other. cenk: what i have is facts. i've told you over and over again that you can get killed with your own gun. >> people kill people, guns don't. >> i'm not out to kill anybody. i'm out to defend myself. cenk: i understand that. >> i'm not going to shoot them in the head or heart. i'm going for a limb. cenk: i know that. >> it's not to shoot to kill, sir. cenk: no, no. >> thou shall not kill. i'm catholic. cenk: cindy and maureen you're not getting it. i don't think you're out to kill anybody. of course not. >> but you're calling me a killer i'm not a killer. i'm a defender. cenk: you don't get it. it's not intentional. you think the people who accidentally shot their kids or their kids accidentally shot themselves thought this will be a great idea? it's not intentional. >> my son is 21, he's away in college. he's not going to do that. >> when a kid shoots himself i guarantee it. cenk: where were the parents? >> if you ran the parents it would be that it was probably a handgun. cenk: i know, you guys are not -- >> they use their thumbs to pull the trigger. cenk: you guys are super human so they're never going to make a mistake. you guys got this on lockdown, they're never going to make a mistake, like this story i did have a guy who took his 7-year-old kid into a gun shop to do whatever he was going to do with it. he took the gun in the car he put it in the car they left a bullet in the chamber he shot him in the head. they make mistakes. kyle, there are 300 million guns in the country, 300 million. you're going to ma to make mistakes, someday in your family's going to die. >> not in my house. >> gun deaths caused by criminals and suicide there aren't that many. cenk: no i have the facts there are that many and it's more likely. guys, i love you don't get me wrong. >> a gun is used 400,000 times a year to stop crimes. how many lives saved by guns? you know, if we can only save one life, but you don't walk the walk. cenk: we're way out of time. i hope i don't have you back on the show when you change your mind for all the wrong reasons. i hope not. i hope everything goes well for you guys. we've got to go to a break. "young turks." cenk: we're back on "the young turks," pope francis there's a group called snap, survivor of priests. they had come up with a list of a dozen cardinals that should not be pope because of their history. he was not on it. i want to bring in peter eisley to talk about the list. who was on the lust and why? >> well, all of these cardinals on the list involved in the cover up of sex crimes, some come from united states, but all of them are on because they covered up child sex crimes or had tuesday and statements and opinions that were so terrible when it comes to dealing with this issue. cenk: so cardinal bergolio was not on that list. is he better on this issue? >> we're just finding out about him. he comes from latin america. the abuse victims are just beginning to come forward in that part of the world. they're like 20 years behind. we do know that they do not have zero tolerance for sexual abuse by priests in that part of the world, there is no church law that requires that a brief who has assaulted a child be removed from ministry in the diocese he came from. what's most important about him is his name, francis. if there's some hope to have, it's about francis of asisi the person he chose to pick at his spiritual guy. he stood up for social justice, francis, a beloved universally around the world stood up to the pope. i think this pope is challenging us to challenge him to live up to that name. he has got to immediately declare zero tolerance. the most disturbing thing that's happened so far he today met with cardinal law. i don't know if the vatican thought the world was going to find out about this, he had a discreet meeting. cardinal law the notorious cardinal that covered up sex crimes in boston, and we issued a letter today before we knew about the meeting with cardinal law, by we, 12,000 victims in our organization around the world, and we want to meet with this new pope, start a new dialogue. surely if he can meet with cardinal law he's got to meet with us and with victims immediately. we've got to begin a dialogue about child protection, we've got to begin reforms. cenk: we've got less than 30 seconds left. other than zero tolerance and the meeting what else would you want the new hope to do? >> he's got to hold accountable including jesuits in his own order, anybody in position of leadership that covered up these child sex crimes including cardinals and archbishops around the world. that he has got to do along with zero tolerance. cenk: thanks for joining us. one final point before we go when we come back.