tv, the 33rd international churchill conference, david lowe talks about his book "no more mr. lowe argues the former prime minister bar would heavily from his friends and family to maintain his lifestyle and was often living on the edge of financial ruin. this is about an hour. >> thank you very much and good afternoon ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the last session of today. one that i know will and the first day on a high. i am sure you as i marvel at the continuing volume of books about winston churchill that emerge what more could there be to say? now even about winston churchill, we might ask. david locke has managed not only to say new things but to add great detail and provide a fascinating expedition of churchill's finances, a topic that you know and as david demonstrates that it had its peaks and indeed its troughs, much like his own political career. is thorough and engaging and offers new churchillian epithets. he was seeking new funds for yet another expenditure and lamenting, had i not been so foolish as to pay a lot of bills, i should've had the money available right now. [laughter] david locke is well qualified to write on this topic. a former member of the london stock exchange, a fellow of the chartered securities institute and with a career in private , banking. now, in semi retirement, is theld of finance loss world of churchill's gain. [applause] mr. locke thank you to the : churchill society. thank you to the international churchill society as i must now call it again, for inviting me here this afternoon. there has been a lot of talk about this being the final session so if you have come thank you very much. i think we will keep it quite light. we have been here a long time today already. this been a subject that has to be taken quite lately. -- lightly. although i guess churchill never took it that lightly himself. he said he hated -- money was the only thing that worried him in life. he hated business affairs. if you read the collection of his letters to clementine, money is a worry throughout his life. almost up to the end when he did not need it. it was never quite so that as my champagne" might imply. i want to reassure you i don't think there was ever more no more champagne literally. [laughter] it did in march of 1938 when his financial affairs were about to implode, he was reduced to saying, no more champagne is to be searched to guests. [laughter] himself whator imperial pint a day. know if you voted for brexit, you are applauding. one of the first things that has happened since the surprising --xit vote is that averaging they have announced they will bring back the imperial pint bottle of champagne. [applause] business as to churchill would reluctantly say. david gave me this title, churchill's financial team. as an englishman i am always thinking of teams in units of 11. these games that were invented and given the world like cricket , we worky and soccer in units of 11. but somehow i thought 11 was not n sufficiently churchillia size of teen. -- team. i thought it should look to american football as an example. when i watch it on my visits over here, i'm always amazed by the number of players on the sidelines waiting to come in. then when i did a little bit of research i found that in fact american football teams work in units of 11. is that right? you have an offense and a defense and i believe specialist kickers teams. are they 11 as well? 33. is that right? 33 people in total? 53. i don't have time for 53. [laughter] ishought what i would do borrow more from american football than soccer, which we call football, and i particularly like the four quarters. i will highlight if you lawyers in each quarter. i will give you, and this is american football i will i will , give you a bit of half-time entertainment. first quarter. this is a defensive line up. let me tell you. he will not have escaped your attention that all the players i am highlighting in this quarter they goes from 1874 up to 1900, they are all women. women -- to women that churchill look for support while he was a student. for financial support, he had to. he had been kept on a very tight leash by his father at the time. his father had little money until the final years. fatherbecause his thought he was hopeless with money, his son was hopeless. himfather for not even get -- give him an allowance at sandhurst. he appeals to the women in his letters for help and they nearly always pay out. first, on your left is mrs. everest, his nanny. reasonably frequent borrower. she complained that he didn't always acknowledge the loans in writing it was often late with repayment. on your right is his father's sister. lady winborn. cornelia had- aunt the good sense to marry money. she married a guest family. a great iron and steel family. they have lots of money. she was reliable. if young winston wrote her a letter, she would write back in a close a nice sum of money with that letter. on later in went life to give him money for his parliamentary expenses. in 1921 when he bought a rolls-royce and it didn't really meet expectations she brought it , back. she took it off in three months after he bought it. had only a 10% discount off of list price. i could have added others. i could have added the woman who signed herself the deputy mother, lady wilson who always enclosed two pounds. everys $300 today, with letter she wrote him. i could've included clara. the duchess who tended to take her son's side and administer stern lectures to winston. quarter, it has to go to women in the middle. about who we have been hearing. i endorse everything that was said earlier. she was a star. she is not necessarily a financial role model, it has to be said. rather the reverse. she is highly extravagant, has no real sense of money. entitlement.se of days she felt she had to give her son winston a bit of a scolding when he asked for money but then she normally came up with the goods. she became really important after her husband's death. he left his two sons no formal allowance. he left his money in trust with his wife. she didn't really understand what a trust was in the deficit when income -- she did allow winston 500 pounds, the equivalent of about $50,000 for $60,000 a year allowance. she used to for the first couple of years after her husband died and that coached him he had lived within his means. all the while she was spending the capital from the trust. eventually the lawyers rumbled and she had a right to winston to say i'm terribly sorry, please sign here. from then on her lectures about sticking within his means dried up. she didn't lecture him anymore. they shared their money problems. he reacted to these financial problems by going out and doubling up as a journalist, writing from afghanistan and sudan, as well as a soldier. i closed it too much. and she acted as his agent back at home. she sold his articles, sold his first books. did a great pr campaign for him. for his first efforts. she was absolutely vital to his early steps. it was only later that the tide turned when she got into trouble with her second marriage and she became dependent on him. he and jackson a lot of time sorting out her affairs in the second marriage and then at her death when she died without a will but owing lots of money to lots of people. so it was a bit of a mixture. now, i want to check the second slide coming up. it is not. can anybody help me out the back? it's on my screen but it's not up on your screen. ok, when we get it up in the middle it's going to be -- one. back one. too much. there we go. ok. in the middle is the man who looked after the -- in today's money about $1.25 million that churchill had saved by 1900, by the end of his lecture tours after the bohr war. you heard about his escape that made him an international star and made him a hero and a star. he had made something like and $1.25 million he needed it looked after. enter this guy in the middle, sir ernest cassel. an immigrant from europe. he had come over in about 1870. he had started as a cotton trader in liverpool, he quickly moved to london as a banker and over the course of 20 years he supplanted the rothschilds in leadership in the city of london. he looked after -- use the word , he "ation marks looked after" the prince of wales edward the seventh and their financial affairs. he became friends with winston churchill's parents and he had a soft spot for young winston. particularly after his father's death. he offered to manage winston savings for nothing and winston thought he did it very well. invited winston out to the opening of the dam he financed in egypt. he invited him to holidays in his swiss chalet and when i say that, don't think of some modest he invited him to his swiss chalet. when i say swiss chalets, do not think of some modest little thing. it was huge. he gave him 500 pounds, so we are talking sort of $75,000, in cash, on his wedding. and he -- and when winston churchill went to fight in the front in 1915 and went on the --rly miserly ra majors pay army major failed pay and was worried about the finances at home, he said to them, don't worry. i give you unlimited credit. service, financial service to winston churchill was churchillen overextended himself, the contractual buyer of two homes in london when he only meant to buy one and he tried to put out his sale to the duke of wellington's's son. he expected to be able to get out of it, that the duke of wellington felson said, hey, you know, we have a contract, -- duke of wellington's son said, hey, you know, we have a contract and i will black in your name if you try to get out of it. and covered it. died two months later and his executors never asked for the money back. as he spent his savings in the first decade of the 20 century, his bankers became more important because they had to lend to him. his bankers were cops and co- co., who generally thence the british army officers. hischill never changed bankers and the whole of his life. they were taken over by deutsche bank. it gave him a fair number of nightmares and his bank managers had some pretty worried evenings and nights, i suspect, but lloyd never lost a single pound in lending to him in the end. his relationship manager, as we would call him today, the first 20 years or so, i couldn't find a picture of him, which is w.h. now. manager for a number of years. his son donated his papers to churchill, and it became deposited into the churchill sensor and a boring banker would be an historian like me, they are a dream, these papers. and you can see them. he took careful notes. he was a fellow mason, gave him a certain affinity with winston, and he was endlessly patient. and he always had faith and churchill. missed loan repayments, deadlines, or failed his photograph back under the published limit -- bernard tried to make sure hehin the bank's hierarchy, was given another chance. on the few days he wasn't, he would try to sort them out with insurance companies instead. the lady on the right, i am so glad you gave me your picture. does anybody know who she is? she is the russian s of , who by his 1862 y in left her own propert ireland, not her husband's property, malone -- she did not leave it to the eldest son. the eldest son and the children were always going to be looked after by the husband. a mother is worried about the younger children. estate to thehe children of her younger children. ok? knew sheby then, she least.ee grandsons at and there, i suppose is the clue. but the estate had to say together. it was to go in order of male seniority. theamazing thing is that three grandsons each died childless. died in ast of them train crash in 1921 on a strip of rail, a single track of rail in north wales. and on themollided was the last of her grandsons. he was a director of the rail will company, so don't feel too sorry for him. the extremely remote chance this would happen, but the estate fell to the children of her daughter, and of course, that would have been the son.t, the second it would have gone to lord randolph churchill if he had been alive, but he had by then died. so it fell into the hot, sticky hands of winston churchill. and after death duties in ireland, it was still worth the equivalent of $5 million. i remember that clinton said the sheafter this accident, wrote to winston, her husband, and said, i cannot describe the blessed feeling of relief that , never be worried about money again, and then she said in brackets -- except through our own fault, of course. and this is what happens. spending goes out. that is when they buy the rolls-royce. she takes a lady's made full-time, travels with her. trading, and when i say trading, it is not investment. and the gambling goes up. big losses in 1923. and so, that was three times enhance, and to actually by 1925, when winston becomes chancellor of the , most of the inheritance is gone for years later. we have as where little policy while he is chancellor of the exchequer because he has to behave pretty well. so this is the halftime entertainment with a surprising entertainer. i said they -- called it skating on thin ice. this is the mail of the entertainment, your halftime entertainment. skating on thin ice, and the clue is in the picture. that building is called somerset house. and it was -- no longer is, but was the headquarters of her majesty's inland revenue, which is our equivalent of the irs. and so, my halftime entertainer is in fact no less than the chairman, because when winston became the chancellor of the 1925, responsible for tax policy and tax collection, he thought first of all, i have got to sell up all my shares. i have to pay down my debts. i think there is going to be a surplus, and i am just going to behave financially very responsibly when i'm chancellor. unfortunately, when he sold the shares, there's not a surplus. he was left with a deficit. , head as much of the bank had an overdraft of the maximum size of the bank would allow him to have. about two days equivalent -- today's equivalent of $5,000 of tax left to pay, and he was the chancellor, he had no money to pay it with. so, what he did was summon the chairman of the mn review, and say essentially, have you got any suggestions? an the chairman is not experienced civil servants. near the end of his career. who can say to them, just like, i think this conversation better stop here and now. he says, chancellor, i understand the problem. let me talk to my senior people and see what we can do. , he comes backr on an unofficial -- you know, his own notepaper in his own hand, and he says, we found an anomaly. author, were as an retire income, capitalreceipts, receipts are untaxed in the should have your tax bill. and churchill says thank you very much. that's fine. and he writes the necessary letter, and his tax bill is halved. except by thee following year, 1926, he is still chancellor. he is paid quite well as chancellor, but it's not enough. the bills are still coming in. he realizes he has got to start riding again, and he gets the prime minister's permission to write the next volume of "the royal crisis." and he says, oh, i wonder if there is a problem. maybe they will deem my retirement never to have taken place and i will have to pay the tax bill, which i can't afford to do. so, he says, you remember you helped me to retire a year ago? i now need you to help me un retire. talk to mys, i will senior people. he comes back and says, if you write me a letter like this, it should be ok. and churchill writes the letter. now third-quarter, this is a bit busier this quarter. field, but on the churchill is very much in charge. . you know, he did it his way and top left is one of your own. become friends of the late stages of the first world war when churchill was responsible for munitions. and they learned to trust each other and the relationship was cemented really in 1929 when churchill lost his job as chancellor of the exchequer and the government was turned out and he decided to take along to her to the u.s. and he asked him to arrange for his hosts here, which he did. big men, schwab, hearst, people like that. then when he got to new york, he accesses host, paid his hotel bills. and he gave him a desk. churchill by now had gotten really absorbed into the full market and shares, what was going on. he got really sucked in. and he is one of the big players in wall street. gave him a desk next to his own, introduced him to his brokers, and off they went. know, the last stages of that bull market, churchill was dealing in terms that in aday's money terms is about million dollars a day in and out of stocks. bingeow, really quick, trading really. when the crash hit, he was down a million dollars. he saw himit that right, repaid the whole of his losses. i could find no evidence that it all. i could find that he transferred the pockets on to personal traits to churchill. so, i think that churchill's losses would have been $1.1 million, but because bernie to traits to him, they contain million dollars. and thereafter -- there was no general rescue, and in fact his advice to churchill in the immediate aftermath of the crash was not great. over, i am getting back involved. and churchill got back involved and lost half as much again in 1930. this is money that he certainly did not have. 1930's, histhe advice was better, market advice. bywas not always followed churchill who hoped he could recover his position. but he was an important financial friend. ratherleft, i have got jack churchill. and you know, jack was a partner in winston's london brokers. and in the first heady days of winston churchill's inheritance in 1921, when he was off in front, he gave jack discretion, a lot of discretion with the dealings in stocks. but in the 1930's, when he was trying to recover his debts, he did not give jack discretion. in fact he dealt more with the vickers the.r of he listened to him occasionally, to his views on the market, but generally he took his own decisions. and all jack had to do was bail him out a couple of times because he owed the brokerage a lot of money and jack was a partner and the rest of the partners looked to jack to make good winston churchill's debts. on a couple of occasions when they got a bit out of control. but winston did repay his brother. now on the right-hand side, i've got a figure you may or may not recognize. alexander calder. i think he is an important financial friend. a hollywood filmmaker, successful hollywood filmmaker in the late 1920's. and introduced to churchill by randolph in 1934. when you would come over to -- when he would come over to europe, determined to re-breed on thes film industry hollywood model. he was well-funded by the industry. he paid churchill very handsomely in 1934 and 1935 as a screenwriter for a couple of films. they were never made. one was actually about the kings jubilee, we were hearing this his later admiration for george the fifth, and another in adulation of george , the silver jubilee. they had rather extravagant taste. they got on well although calder was 20 years younger. two payments in 1934 and 1930 five, even on a shoe is for the moment, but keep them in your mind because he will reappear. despite these payments, churchill's debts just grew and grew. if you have read my book, you will see. they grew to the modern-day equivalent of $3 million or $4 million. implosionally, the that i spoke about right at the beginning occurred in march 1938 on literally the day that hitler's ordered his troops into vienna. and this is where the pair in the middle common and they are perhaps the most important care of any faces i will show you today. is brendan bracken. it's confusing. this is brendan bracken. irishman. mysterious. attached himself to churchill in 1923 as a young fixer. then, when churchill became chancellor, went off to pursue career, andishing amazingly, in his 20's still, put together a publishing empire that is still there today. themagazine is called banker, the general practitioner, became a major part of "the financial times." and he bought 50% of "the economist." was led by the man which everynd name churchillian should be intimately familiar with, and yet when i talk in britain, no are really knows who he is, but he is the guy who rescued churchill financially in every way. he rescued him from bankruptcy in 1938. he allowed him to continue as a politician. because what happened is this. when churchill's finances 1938,ed in march churchill standard hit -- handed his stockbroking papers and said something like -- this is not recorded, so i am surmising -- brendan, unless you cannot me, i may be finished, because you know, you cannot carry on as an mp if you are bankrupt. bracken took the papers around -- he chose carefully. he knew this man through "the economist." he was him also because a currency economist. he had done work for the reserve bank of south africa. and while he was in south africa, he was asked to chair a company called union corporation, which was a mining company and they mind precious -- usedn the armament in the armaments industries and they exported both to germany he knew thein, and figures. he started -- he was one of inrchill's in performance the 1930's about the extent of the german rearmament any thought that churchill was really the only politician standing up to what was going on in germany, and he thought he had to be kept in the game. and apart from that, he was unmarried. you know, he had no family. he was a wealthy man. bracken came and said winston is in trouble, he well, in dollars today, it was more than a million dollars. he took out his pen and signed a check for the entire amount. that much was known. you will find this more or less in the official biography, but what is it in the official biography, the same sourcing june 1940. within weeks of churchill becoming prime minister and leaving the struggle, he found he could not pay his bank interest bills, his tax in june 1940. he had a statement of his bank account drawdown. brendan bracken took it to wrote ah and strakosch check. it was the equivalent of about $300,000. not a fact that is known. but these two literally kept churchill in the game. i said i have not quite finished with calder because he comes back in the war. he comes over to hollywood again. they thought it was a strange move. why would he leave london and moved to hollywood? he was part of a british nudgeigence effort to americans toward the war, make films that would help the war effort. but he also worked on the u.s. studios and you made a series of offers, some of them with american film studios for churchill's on book rights. and after the war, he and his today'ss paid churchill equivalent of about $7.5 million. guide beater film him to the film rights. his$10 million went into accounts. he started the war in serious debt. with $5 million in his current account and a new home that had just gone on the market for $5 million. it did not cost him the equivalent of $30 million. but he is a very important player. now fourth quarter. final quarter. another unfamiliar face, i think . i don't know if anyone can pick him, but this is a much underrated guy because he was understated. this is bill barry, better known camrose. he is an absolutely central financial friend to churchill. plays an -- he important part in sorting out the mess that churchill got himself into during the war when peopleifferent sets of thought they had rights to films and there was a model to the film rights for "the history of english-speaking peoples." they just gently eased him out of that model. 1945, 1946, he put together the syndicate. it was his idea. national gave it to trust. pounds.m 50,000 who led the sales ,f the second world war memoirs the rights package here in new in septemberietly 1946, october 1946. detailsegotiated the with tom life and the new york times. in 1953as he who again when churchill had his stroke provided some interest-free loans for liquidity purposes and who kept the press, persuaded the british press to keep the stroke quiet. by camrose.ovided antony, his solicitor -- you started as a tax lawyer. he came in in 1942 when take on thented to in-line revenue about the non-miniscule earnings during the war. .hey did take it to a tribunal it was another very surprising randolphich actually first put me onto because the frankly, iinvolved, still have a lovely memo of his first meeting with churchill. it is almost worth reading the book just for that memo. it's a lovely memo. very vivid. and he wanted a tax structure for riding the memoirs with a .arrister churchill trusted him completely. he was very calm, the follicle, thorough. trust him overto the whole range of his affairs and he did not do anything post war that had not been under his nose first. in the middle -- a financial friend you should be familiar with. if you do not recognize him is in they, the clue magazines behind him. it is henry luce. postwar paymaster. immediately after the war while churchill was still technically retired as an author, he could not write articles, so "life" what a story based on his pictures, reproductions of his pictures, and his speeches made during the war to the house of commons. and "time" was the main buyer of the rights to the memoirs and it sort ofy luce who was put together the consortium with "the new york times." who approved the payment of churchill's holidays. we have got to do it, we have got to do it. and he let his chairman get on with it. he was a great delegator. right, every reeves. he was very important in churchill's prewar newspaper sales. he took his columns worldwide. it was more important for churchill's morale and his political reach than just financial terms. it was not a game changer. and actually, he played very amrose innd role to c the negotiation of the sales of the war memoirs. they were a pair, but he was second. rather contrary to the account he gave to martin gilbert in the official biography. i'm afraid there is no doubt about it. he oversold his role to martin gilbert, big time. get into the foreign rights and he made a huge amount of money out of the memoirs. he had a lovely house in the south of france on the back of it. he built up a collection of impressionist paintings and he gave the money to churchill. right,ally, bottom anthony montague brown, when becoming churchill's secretary, howard mcmillan who was defending him, is that whatever you do montague brown, do not get sucked into mr. churchill's financial affairs. of course, he found that such was the scale of spending he had to. he had to get involved. there had to be new revenue streams. of rights.o be sales he had to learn about the film industry and the recording industry and he did. he was a diplomat. he was a very good networker. timeilt up contacts over and after a slow start -- by the end, he was getting big money. the signal performed service of old enough the service, or the irs, until after churchill felt that. though his executors would have to deal with them. churchill would not have the stress. finally, finally a little bit of postmatch analysis. i think it's wonderful. those of you who have been to britain in the last month no the backchill graces of our newest banknote, this man who was a great expert in debt and derivatives and risk-taking -- [laughter] mr. lough: and rescues and failed austerity regimes now graces the back of the bank of a win -- i think he would just be profoundly unhappy with the denomination chosen. five pounds is the cheapest, our lowest denomination banknote. five pounds today -- five pounds worthpre-world war i was one shilling. one shilling, and what did one shilling by? -- what did one shilling buy? it did not even by a half bottle. that caused three shillings. thank you very much. -- that cost three shillings. [applause] so we have 5,h, 6, 7 minutes, something like that over we have to make it a night. so, just wait for the microphone . otherwise i will have to repeat your question. i was wondering -- what churchill's reputation was on the street in political circles, and how anybody would have put him in the chancellor of the exchequer given his expertise in financial matters? mr. lough: yeah. i think actually at the time he was chancellor, not very much was known about his private finances. he did not let on about his inheritance. , theld stanley baldwin prime minister, he is been able to buy with the earnings from his book "the crisis." after the second world war, his earnings were normans. he did not make huge amounts of money from his books. -- after the second world war, his earnings were enormous. in the 30's, things changed a bit. he was so late paying a lot of bills. by strakoschescue -- the knowledge of that was very, very tight. he did not tell his lawyers. he did not tell his bankers. the money went straight to the stockbrokers. the only people who knew, i think, were his brother jack and obviously strakosch. in may 1940 there were a lot of people who were almost as worried about trump -- [laughter] about churchill becoming prime minister as trump becoming president, because he did have a reputation as an adventurer. 100% trustworthy. i'm talking about may 1940. there was a bit of knowledge. that his affairs were a bit rickety. >> i was going to say it was my understanding that clementine churchill found yourself quite aggravated unconcerned about their cash flow and the debt they were going into, --ticularly [indiscernible] can you comment on the distress this caused clementine churchill? mr. lough: yes, i think you are undoubtedly right. she hated -- i read that little excerpt about the inheritance, and the feeling of relief. she said it was like floating in a bath of cream. relieved because she hated not being able to pay their bills. she thought that chatwell would prove to be a millstone around the neck. i suppose in purely financial terms, it was. wasstaff needed for upkeep very committed expensive. the time find most of the household accounts are not in the archives because clementine was in charge of paying them and she needed a whole lot more money to do so than the monthly allowance. ins only two years, 1935 1936 when the household accounts merged with the -- with churchill's accounts, because that is when they were getting really worried about money and they brought in accountants to try to sort it out and reduce expenditure. the accountants had the overview of everything. astonishedsay i was by the scale of spending. theought she was always restraints. and a very modest and this and that. that i think is how we all see her. -- i can in the book remember, 1935, 1936, a bill at harrods, and she had bills and about a dozen department stores that ran 80 pages. and there were times when she did seem to, you know, her one of would announce his economy regimes and she would seem to go out and buy some big-ticket items immediately afterward. it's a little more complex, i think that the traditional picture. she hated it. but she still cemented. it.but she still spent [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> you're watching american history tv, 48 hours of programming on american history .very weekend on c-span3 follow us on twitter to keep up with the latest history news. >> republican donald trump is elected as the next president of the united states, and the nation elects a republican controlled house and senate. follow the transition of government on c-span. events take you to key as they happen without interruption. watch live on c-span. watch live on c-span.org. or listen on our free c-span radio app. >> each week, "american artifacts" takes you to historic places. general douglas macarthur commanded forces in the pacific during world war ii. at the macarthur memorial, we learn about his early life, service during world war i, and the interwar years. this is part one of a two-part program. mr

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