heating in the winter and air conditioning in the summer. it's the least we can do to make sure that they get the benefit that is they've earned from the career that they've put in to and the coal mining industry and the coal miners protection act very, very important legislation and i was glad to see that we finally got that done. we kept about 22,000 coal miners from losing their health benefits. and that was very important. i think we did the right thing. >> and along with that legislation and another piece of legislation that you supported was the effort to repeal the stream protection rule. can you explain what that was and your involvement in that effort? >> absolutely i can. when i first came to congress in 2011, i became aware of what the interior department, the office of surface mining and reclamation, was trying to do with the rule known as the stream protection rule. at this time, it was called the stream buffer zone rule. they changed the name of it so that it would become a political hot button and i'll explain that in just a minute but it was one of the twin pillars of president obama's war on coal because it attacked the coal industry from the production side. it had nothing to do with protecting streams. it was a gross overreach of federal authority. we had pointed that out to them. we had hearing after hearing after hearing on the natural resources committee and congress. but they just simply would not listen. and so, when we had the opportunity to roll that rule back under the congressional review act, i was very, very happy to lead that charge but had a lot of help of other members of the house and the senate that made sure that we got that done because like i said it had nothing to do with keeping streams clean. i mean, we have got lots of federal laws and state laws already on the books. keep in mind that the states regulate about 97% or 97% of the regulatory work that happens in the coal industry is done by the states today. you don't need the federal government stepping in to something that's a gross overreach that would virtually shut down underground coal mining in america and that's what that rule would have done had it been left to stand. >> congressman bill johnson, a republican from ohio, our guest until 9:00 taking your calls and questions. remember a special line for coal miners and family members. 202-748-8000 is that number. we'll start with michael calling in from pennsylvania. michael, good morning. >> caller: yeah, good morning. and thank you for taking my call. i grew up in a small coal mining town. has a somerset county area and i was a coal miner myself. and every -- about seems like every five to ten years they put a mandate on power plants to clean, to better clean their coal to where today it's so efficient that they say whenever they go into those big smokestacks they take a skid steer bobcat in there and get very little ash on the bottom of the floor. it's very clean burning and that but i believe that this country was made and we protected even the world through the use of coal and steel making. it's a vital part of our history and our heritage. and if you do research on solar panels, to get the material, still have to mine the coal and the silica and earth's crust to make solar panels and has to be heated up to 2,500 degrees to melt down to make krystaline to make the solar panels and so toxic they don't make them in the united states. they make them in foreign countries so we ship our coal overseas and then they make them over there and when they cut them into the square panels the dust is toxic and harmful to human beings. >> all right, michael. got your point. congressman johnson, i'll let you jump in. >> you know, he's right. he's right. look. we have got basically three forms of energy that provides the base load of our national utility grid. our national energy grid. it's coal, natural gas and nuclear. you can't provide the base load of our energy grid with solar or wind or alternative fuels. i believe, as do most of my colleagues i serve with in the house, believes in a true all of the above energy policy. now, president obama said that when he was in office, but that's not what his policies reflected. and he makes a good point. you know, and i heard mr. murray talk about this a little earlier, what happened in europe. i have traveled to europe, also. and i've talked to some of the energy leaders in europe about why they are returning to a higher profile or higher mix of coal fired energy in their energy profiles. and it's because they are unwilling to pay the exorbitantly high prices for energy that their residential and commercial customers have been forced to pay. and so, europe has learned the tough lesson of what it does to a nation when you shut down your coal fired energy because coal is still the most affordable, reliable form of energy on the planet and we need it along with natural gas and along with nuclear energy to provide our base load. but he's right. a lot of the components for solar energy are made overseas. and we need those jobs created here at home. how do we do that? keep our coal industry going. because we have over the years we have done a lot of work, even the epa has said so themselves. lowering par tick lat matter in the atmosphere here in the united states. we're doing our part. we have learned how to use coal responsibly and environmentally soundly. and we should continue to do so. >> for our radio listeners, we have been showing viewers a chart from the energy information administration from share of electricity generation by source. the forecasts for 2016 coal would be 32%. natural gas 33%. nuclear 19%. hydroelectric power 6%. and then non-hydro renewables, solar and wind, 8%. to that line for coal miners and family members, bob, henderson, kentucky. good morning. >> caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. i was born and raised in eastern kentucky and nothing but coal mining over there. it's in the mountains and i now live in western kentucky and coal mining has stopped here in western kentucky because high sulfur coal and it doesn't have a third of the btus that the low sulfur coal does that they have already mined out in eastern kentucky. and my dad retired from the coal mine. i had two brothers retire from the coal mine. and i had two or three brothers that worked in the coal mine but they got out of the coal mine and left and went to michigan to get work. and coal, you know -- i love the coal miners and that but coal is not good for the atmosphere and everybody knows it. look at china. you can't see in the daytime over there because of the pollution from the coal. and on the miners benefits, i'm glad they do it. i'm glad that they -- the government is providing that. but you know, i had 20 years in a factory in michigan and they shut it down, shipped the business to foreign countries to manufacture their stuff cheaper. and no didn't somebody step forward to help me with my benefits. >> thank you for the call. congressman johnson? >> he made a comment about coal not being good for the atmosphere. we have come a long, long way, a long way, some of the cleanest coal fired power plants in the world are right here along the ohio river. the cardinal plant not too far from here at one point was considered the cleanest burning coal fired power plant in the world. and so, i would -- i would disagree that coal fired energy is bad for the atmosphere. i mean, i'm certain that you can use it irresponsibly as the chinese do. they don't go to the extremes that we do here in america to make sure that our atmosphere is clean. by the way, nobody cares more about the air that we breathe and the water that we drink than those here along the ohio river and coal country that have to breathe it and drink it. so, we are concerned about the atmosphere, too, and we want coal companies and coal fired power plants to do it environmentally responsibly and i believe they're doing that today and i believe they'll continue to get even better at it in the future. >> congressman johnson, we have shown our viewers this chart. it is coal jobs over the last five quarters in this country. the chart from last week showing that coal mining jobs dropped 8% in the first quarter of 2017 compared to the first quarter of 2016. are you expecting some sort of great comeback in coal jobs? and if so, when? >> well, it's going to be a phase-up. it's not going to happen overnight. but now that the president, president trump, has brought down, again, the two twin pillars of his -- president obama's war on coal, the stream protection rule that he set aside and then the halting of the clean power plan, i think you're going to begin to see the coal industry revive. now, how long is it going to take us to get back to where we are or we were before president obama? i don't know how long that's going to be. i don't have a crystal ball but i can tell you that if we had not stopped the stream protection rule, you're talking about upwards of 70,000 jobs lost in the united states. many of them along the ohio river. in places like the 6th district where i live, pennsylvania, west virginia and kentucky. and had the clean power plan not been stopped you're talking about thousands of more jobs and higher skyrocketing utility rates. so i think you're going to see coal jobs stabilize and then begin to trickle back up. >> former new york -- >> i don't know how long it takes. >> former new york city mayor bloomberg in "washington post," the fact is putting coal miners back to work is no more possible than from a business standpoint than telegraph operators back to work taking morse code or eastman kodak employees back for film rolls. politicians who ignore the market realities and make promises to coal communities they can't keep are engaging in something worse than a con, telling the communities in effect, the best hope they have and the children have is trapped in a dying industry that will poison them. >> well, that is clearly an ideological point of view. he's ignoring the fact you read off of that chart a few minutes ago that still a third of america's power is provided by the coal industry and many states like here in ohio, it's much higher than that. coal fired energy provides the ability to keep our lights on, to keep our air conditioners on in the summertime. our heaters on in the wintertime. so, clearly, bloomberg's statement is an ideological statement intended to frighten and to scare people away from the coal industry. it's not going to work and europe is already showing that. like i said, europe is going back to a higher mix of coal in their energy profile because they've learned that if you're going to have a sustainable economy and robust manufacturing you got to have energy to be able to provide power to those manufacturing facilities. where does that power come from? comes from the base load of your energy grid. in america, that's coal, that's natural gas, that's nuclear. and the other forms of energy, solar provides energy when the sun shines. wind energy provides energy when the wind blows. and so we need coal. we need natural gas. we need nuke cler but coal's going to be here for a long time. >> dawn is in auburn, new york. good morning. >> caller: good morning. good morning, senator johnson. i have a comment that i don't think anybody brings up, is what caused global warming during the ice age. it wasn't people using fossil fuel. and i'd like someone to talk about it. thank you so much. bye. >> what would you like them to talk about, dawn? >> well, i can tell you, i wasn't around during the ice age but i can guarantee you we were not burning coal in the ice age so i think she makes a good point. >> to line for coal miners and family me believes, bill maher is in cumberland city, tennessee. good morning. >> caller: good morning. >> go ahead, sir. >> caller: anyway, i was born in virginia in southwestern part. my dad worked the coal mines 45 years and i can remember as a kid you couldn't even -- when it snowed, you couldn't even -- where we burnled coal, you couldn't hardly pick up some snow because of soot and stuff. and, two, the river up there, all the fish died in it. and they just now got it back to where the fish will live in it. and about all the mines shut down, and they tore the stipples down. they had shaft mines because they put in natural gas and murray was saying that gas wells only last ten years. well, them's been there over ten years now. and they get the gas off of the coal so they're not -- they tore them down so they're not going to go back and put them up. the oil company owns all that stuff. natural gas is a lot cheaper and to me i listened to murray. he's a big blow george. and anyway, i live right at a coal fired power plant. and on a day when it is clear and the sky is blue you'll see these clouds coming from that stack. sloping away from it. >> bill, thanks for sharing your story. congressman johnson, i want you to pick up on the natural gas comment that is he referred to there and the sustainability of the natural gas industry. mr. murray was saying that those wells will only last ten years and that coal will be there longer. do you agree with that comment by mr. murray? >> i'm not a geologist. i can tell you that here along the ohio river and the utica shale, we have got according to the experts, we have got more resource under our feet than we know what to do with. some people say we have more gas and oil under our feet here along the ohio river than saudi arabia does. but that's not the point. the point is that it's going to take more than one energy source to provide the base load for our energy grid. coal has been doing it since right after world war i. maybe even longer than that. during america's industrialization period, it was coal fired energy that provided the energy for america to build and to innovate. many of the industries that manufacturing industries that came about, came about because they were powering their manufacturing operations with coal fired energy. so, look. we can talk all day about how inexpensive natural gas is and that is a market factor. that's true. but the truth of the matter is we need both natural gas and coal to provide america's energy needs. it's not one or the other. it's both. >> back to the phones. we'll go to dr. devin calling in from beckly, west virginia. good morning. >> caller: yes, sir. yes, sir. thank you very much for taking my call. i have a -- an inquiry. the united nations atomic energy commission has spent a great deal of -- a great deal of research particularly in europe, china, germany, japan, et cetera, to convert the gas that is produced by the coal industry so fertilizers and feed material. the united states, we have much superior technology. the atomic energy commission's program uses the electron beam to convert the flue gas into fertiliz fertilizer. we have much cheaper technology to use this in a much superior way. so, can we discuss in a creative way without finding fault from this group or the other group concentrate on research and development and demand a better program, not only for the united states but the world everywhere? >> thanks for bringing it up. congressman johnson, is that something you've been following? >> well, i'm not sure i could make out exactly everything the caller said but i did hear a lot of it. technology, there is no question, has played a role in the coal industry and the natural gas industry. and in the nuclear industry here in america and across the globe. we've learned how to burn coal more efficiently and cleaner and we will continue to do that. we've learned how to harvest natural gas more efficiently and transport it not only to markets but to gas fired power plants. nuclear energy is becoming more modular, smaller. america is the country of innovation. we're the world's problem solvers. much of the innovation, much of the conveniences that people around the world enjoy today came from right here in america. and as technology improves and it seems like every week we're seeing another advancement in technology, i'm certain that as we move forward we're going to continue to find ways to provide the energy to our national energy grid in a more efficient way, more environmentally clean and sound way. and i think you are going to see coal and natural gas be here for a listening time. >> a few minutes left with congressman bill johnson of 6th district of ohio where the c-span cameras are this morning there at the powhatan point transloading facility on the ohio river. it's just about 20 miles south of wheeling, west virginia, on the other side of the ohio river. showing you some pictures now of the power stations run by the american electricity company on the other side of the ohio river from powhatan point. rose is on the line for coal miners and family me believes of coal miners. humboldt, tennessee. good morning, rose. >> caller: good morning. what are we going to do when they get on the television and talk and all this stuff and it's not true. 20 years from now, it is about money. it is not about people and the coal miners. what about them? are they going to walk away from them like they did before and leave them like some of the poor people in the world? >> congressman? >> well, i think we demonstrated in the house and the senate with the omnibus bill that was signed here recently that we are concerned about making sure that those miners are not left out. we saw the health benefits with $1.3 billion over 10 years to make sure that 22,000 mine workers were not stripped of their health benefits. and we're going to continue to work that issue to try to resolve the pension problem. it's a bigger issue but it's a problem that needs to be addressed. so the intent is not to leave anybody out. that's not the way america does business. >> let's head to rockaway, new jersey. anglo, good morning. >> caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. so, i noticed that a lot of people are very quick to regulate the coal industry and they cite emissions as the reason. and then i ask them, what if americans had to turn off their lights for five hours per day to save emissions? and they often say, no. so, you know, i find that a lot of people are quick to regulate, you know, something that's, you know, foreign to them. but when it comes down to themselves, they're not so willing to, you know, commit to turning their lights off or kind of sacrificing their own comfort and, you know, cheap electricity. >> got your point, anglo. congressman johnson, our last minute? >> yeah. isn't it amazing how that works, whether it's balancing a budget or cutting spending? which we so desperately need to do in washington, d.c. everybody seems to be all on board for making big change until that change affects them. one of the conversations that i like to have that i often enjoy having is when those who say, hey, we should not be using coal fired energy, you know, we need to be using electric cars and those kinds of things, they go home, they plug that car in to an electric outlet in their home never even considering the fact that the energy that provides the power to their home is provided by coal fired energy. but somehow that goes unnoticed. >> congressman bill johnson, appreciate you taking the time to join us today. come by, stop by our studio when you're back in d.c. >> i would love to. thanks, john. >> and up next, as we continue our focus on the coal industry, we'll hear from vivian stockman, co-director of ohio valley environmental coalition. we'll hear about her work and the environmental impacts of coal and later we'll hear from nick mullens, a fifth generation coal miner who now works as a writer and activist and an author of the blog the thoughtful coal miner. but first, on a recent visit to powhatan point, c-span stopped by a restaurant and bar in west virginia and talked to a couple former coal miners about life in the coal mine. >> what's it mean for west virginia? >> all coal miners around here. right down the river is coal mines. up the river is coal mines. out that way is coal mines. a lot of people are out of jobs, close them all down now. eliminating a bunch of jobs. >> what do people do when they're out of jobs? >> myself? i got in the steel mill. i ran crane for 25 years after i retired from the coal mine. retired in '89 from the coal mine. got a job at the steel mill. stayed in the steel mill. instead of going back in the coal mine. you were better secure job. i retired after 25 years up there. >> think it's hard for miners to find a different job? do they want to leave the mining business? >> no, i don't think so. like me, i was 800 feet in the ground. i went to crane. 100 feet above ground. ran an overhead crane, 900 feet difference. i made it. anybody can make it. >> for somebody who's never been 800 feet below ground, when's that like? >> beautiful. never know you're underground once you get down there and accustomed to it. dark. i mean, you can put your hand up to your nose and not see it. but you can feel it. feel the heat. but you can't see nothing. but a flicker of light, you can see a flicker of light i'd say a mile away. depends on the terrain. how, you know, it's not all flat. like people might think flat at this table. it's up and down and curving. tough go by the contour of the land. >> do you miss it at all? >> yeah, i missed it. yeah. i did every job, every feasible job in the coal mine. i started out as general inside labor. i kept my union card. i was a boss, also. a lot of boss at first 180 days a year. without losing any seniority and then 90 days. this and that. i give that up. being a section runner. i stayed to the fire boss. i was allowed to do that. >> what did you like the most about it? >> daily challenge. every day was a different job. different -- different thing to do. i mean, when you're bolting roof top, watch it wouldn't fall in on you. running mine, had to watch everybody bre hind. running a buggy, watch everybody on the corners. it is a challenge, every day challenge. and you -- like anything else. worst enemy. if you get lax daze call, you're going to get hurt. >> "the washington journal" continues its focus on the coal industry this morning from powhatan point, ohio. it's murray energy's transloading facility there and joining us on site now is vivian stockman, serves as vice director of ohio valley environmental coalition. ms. stockman, tell our viewers a little bit about your group and its work. >> well, ohio valley environmental coalition or ovec is based in what was