At wild cornell medical college. Hes also visiting professor of law and Solomon Center distinguished scholar in medicine bioethics and law at yale law school. Dr. Finz will be speaking about the experience of speaker carl albert who during the 1970s for several months was first in line to the presidency. Dr. Rose, mcdermott she is the david and Mariana FisherUniversity Professor of International Relations at brown university. Shes also author of the book president ial leadership illness and Decision Making dr. Mcdermott will be speaking about president ial and Vice President ial illness in 1947 statute. Mr. Garrett graff, hes distinguished author of the book raven rock the story of the Us Governments secret plan to save itself while the rest of us die. Mr. Graph will talk about past efforts of the United States government to preserve its continuity. Dr. Rebecca c lebow is the director of porzio governmental affairs. Shes also author of the dissertation the passage of the 25th amendment Nuclear Anxiety and president ial continuity and several related articles. She will talk about the threat of Nuclear Weapons and the 1947 statute. Finally ambassador a b culverhouse. Hes the former White House Council the president Ronald Reagan is currently cochair of continent of government commission. Ambassador called the house will discuss the perspective of a white house counsel. Im president ial health and life succession matters. Earlier panelists have discussed many of the important theoretical concerns about having lawmakers in the line of succession including the possibility of a partisan partisan control the white house changing hands that is to say that the will of the American Voters from the previous president ial election would suddenly be reversed. I would like to amplify many of those remarks and discuss some concrete examples that demonstrate how close the nation has come to actually implementing legislative succession to the presidency. Thankfully the nation has never experienced situation which both the president and Vice President have died. Otherwise left office at the same time. Nor has the nation endured an extended period when both the president and Vice President have been capacitated. But the nation has come very close on several occasions. I believe a handful of historical episode should make clear the notion legislative succession the Presidency Company by a change in partisan control. The white house is not a remote abstraction, but its a very real possibility. As noted earlier on the 1792 president ial succession statute the successors after Vice President with the Senate President pro tempore ppt for short followed by the speaker. There were several near misses to legislative succession under authority of the statute. In 1844 john tyler democrat the president that year he was aboard the naval vessel the uss, princeton. When a massive can explore killing two cabinet secretaries who were topside at the time . Purely through good fortune. The president happened below deck and was spared. Had he not been spared because there was no ppt because there was no Vice President. Ppt at the time senator Willie Mangum of the wig party came close to becoming acting present. This would have meant for partisan control. A change in parts control of the executive branch in 1865 following assassination of president Abraham Lincoln democrat. Andrew johnson was elevated presidency. Just weeks afterward and with no Vice President. Johnson became seriously ill he was so sick. In fact that his secretary of state and secretary of war were sent scrambling trying to track down the ppt. The ppt was senator Lafayette Foster who was a republican . The problem was that at the time foster was in the wilds of the new mexico character conducting oversight on Us Government. Treatment of native american tribes cabinet secretaries were only able to find Contact Center foster by sending a courier writing horseback from the nearest outpost. After some effort the career finally located the senator senator in a remote corner of the territory sitting peacefully by a campfire. The telegram beseech center foster to head toward the nearest big city to establish communication with washington dc in case he had it become acting president. Three years later bringing impeachment trial of Andrew Johnson in 1868. The senate came within a single vote of removing the president and elevating center fosters successors ppt senator ben wade to the presidency. Like foster wade was republican. As has been mentioned in 1886 legislative succession was removed from the statute books. As we know in 1947 lawmakers reinserted the speaker and the present pro tem in that order into the line of succession. Since democratic president harry truman did not have a Vice President in 1945 until 1949 republican speaker. Joe martin. Perhaps came closer to becoming acting president than any other speaker. Not long after the bills adoption president truman went on official trip to brazil. While on this trip his motorcade almost drove over the edge of a precipice. Speaker martin recalled that quote truman while on a visit to south america came dangerously close to plunging down a mountainside in his auto. The news was a sobering reminder of how near i was living day to day on the edge of great responsibility unquote. As was the case with tyler and johnson barson switching the white house could easily have a curve. Each of these examples until instances when a lawmaker could easily have become acting president due to the possibility of a vacancy in both the presidency and the vice presidency. What about situations in which both the president and the Vice President are incapacity . History affords at least one such example here as well. In 1985 president reagan underwent surgery to move polyps from his intestine. Prior to being anesthetized reagan transferred the powers and duties of his office Vice President george bush under section 3 of the 25th amendment while acting president bush decided on why play some tennis. However, during his match the acting president backped furiously to retrieve a lob tripped fell hit his head and was briefly knocked out cold. Thus for a very short period of time both the president and the Vice President for unconscious. Several years later the Vice President s military aid for mark both situation quote we figured for at least a few seconds speaker tip oneill was in charge, but we decided not to tell him. Oneal course was a democrat. What the episodes from the Tyler Johnson truman and reagan presidency show is that the nation has come perilously close to implementing legislative succession. And to a sudden change in Party Control the executive branch. Now some may be wondering did lawmakers themselves ever think that they might become acting president and the answer is yes indeed. Several lawmakers have made tentative plans for what they would do. If they were confronted with the scenario. As dr. Ornstein alluded to earlier during the impeachment trial of president johnson, senator wade considered who be in his future cabinet. He huddled with republican president ial nominee Ulysses Grant to discuss the matter. Even went so far as to off with the post of secretary interior to someone and he made arrangements the distribution of of federal patronage in one state. Speaker martin certainly took possibility of becoming acting president seriously. He later admitted that had he had considered whom he might name a secretary of state. Quote, i never gave systematic thought what i would have done or whom i would have appointed to my cabinet if you had fallen to my lot suddenly to become acting present. But the idea alert in my mind that i might ask Herbert Hoover to return to washington as secretary of state. His great experience both as cabinet officer and as president would have been almost indispensable to me unquote. The closest any lawmaker has apparently come to indicating that he or she might not serve for any extended period of time as acting president was senator carl heat served as ppt 1950s in the 1960s. The senator remarked that had he been elevated the oval office youd have taken the following steps. Quote id Call Congress together. Of the house elected new speaker, then id resign and let him become acting president unquote. Interestingly haydens active selfdenial did not involve his declining job altogether. And allowing to pass to the secretary of state instead hayden indicated if you would ensure that the acting president would come from the legislative branch. I will defer to the next panelist dr. Fins in a mom will discuss experience of speaker albertsons whos experience has also relative relevant in this context. Finally, i would note that speaker dennis hasterter did concede that. He did not want to become acting president , but unlike senator hayden pastor indicated he would have accepted the responsibility. Quote, i really didnt want to be president permanent or temporary pastor call. And with my wife jean who wasnt thrilled with my present job. She wouldnt be happy with this. The optout provision in the 1947 statute might have seemed to track but i understood that it wasnt really an option because if youve got a constitutional crisis and youre the speaker. You couldnt pass it up. You had to accept. Unquote the words and actions of wade Martin Hayden and hastert each indicate the lawmakers themselves have given some serious thoughts becoming acting president. What i hope this brief presentation has outlined because the prospect of a speaker or ppt becoming acting president and potentially flipping partisan control. The white is a very real one. This is reflected by the fact that lawmakers themselves have given some thought as to what they would do. Were they to become acting president. Question for the public to consider is does having lawmakers in the line of succession manifest most sensual sensible approach for addressing executive succession inability . Now, let me turn matters over to dr. Fence. Thank you so much reb and a real big. Thanks to dean ferrick and john rogan for having me on the panel as a physician. I feel a little bit out of place, but i really am honored to be with you and as a position, we dont go anywhere without our slides so im gonna share some slides because my verbal abilities are not as keen as my lawyer friends my legal colleagues, so im gonna talk about the carl albert experience and and bipartisanship and the dual vacancies that happened during the watergate era and i think it its relevant and a lot of interesting primary sources. Ill share that i think speak to the issues that weve already discussed. Let me just tell you a little bit how i got into this as a country doctor. This is not my usual line of work and i was invited to i think the last meeting of the president ial ability a conferences that were hosted by president ford and carter and and convened by the white house physician and jim tool organized it and it was december of 1996 and and i was invited along with george annis who was a Health Lawyer at Boston University because i done some writing and theres a piece there on the side on advanced directives and advanced care planning. I think one thing to remember when we think about president ial disability and succession is that at president s are awesome also husbands and potentially wives of spouses and parents and grandparents and Family Dynamics are going to play into decisions about incapacity. And so i had i have been asked to be there to talk about the family role in some of these decisions and and to and to weigh in on some medical issues and there were a number of white house physicians who were in attendance including burton lee. A general admiral a general hutton and others so that was fascinating experience when i was a young scholar at the time and i felt a little bit out of place, but for me the headline was this curious phrase that that senator by of course wrote the 25th amendment was there and in the middle of the of a break he was telling us a story and it kind of felt like you were listening to abe lincoln. I mean he had that of funcular character, you know, just authentic midwestern patriotic equality and he was telling us this story about the dual vacancy during the watergate era. Of course. Nicks agnew had resigned nixon could be removed or could resign before the Vice President was nominated and then carl albert, you know under the succession act would assume assume office and then he said that there was a fear of the presidency going to his phrase the Party Opposite and and he was concerned about that that would as if it had been a coup detat, and and so he told us this this anecdote which would stayed with me for years and years and years and that and that carl albert the story. Was that carl albert would resign as speaker. So a Democratic House could elect the minority leader jerry ford to serve as speaker who would then succeed on to the presidency so we wouldnt have this Party Opposite scenario and a republican within replace a republican and and and and carl albert and and and birds five were very concerned about any appearance of a political gain with nixons removal because he had committed crimes or because of constitutional violation like it was not a political impeachment it was because of the legal issues and again has been said earlier, you know, there could have been a disincentive for nixon to resign because it would have gone to the party. So there was this gentlemans agreement and and over the years. Its been a sort of like sort of side hobby of mine to look for evidence of this and when i was giving us a talk out and and grand rapids, i got it to private tour of the ford museum and i found some interesting documents there and and you know one is a letter from jerry ford from october of 1973 recommending three people to be the new Vice President and he recommended John Connolly melvin laird was the defense secretary Nelson Rockefeller who he ultimately chose his own Vice President or Ronald Reagan, and he said i will not go into the reasons for my views as im sure youre familiar with reasons in each instance and then and then of course the nixon letter resigning in 1974 interestingly noted here 11 35 a. M. Initial by Henry Kissinger hk, and then of course here is the the the index card that that came to his when he when he was actually took the oath of office and and i want to draw your attention to these three pictures on on this sidebar here this frame, um, you see agnew and carl albert ford and albert and and rockefeller and carl albert. The continuity here is in the speaker. Hes the only person who hasnt shifted in this in this Musical Chairs during this cast of characters, and so so ive been very interested and they didnt have anything when i was at the ford museum about this and and and and it kind of stayed with me and then during the the middle part of the trump administration. Um, i was wondering about this story over and over again about this this sort of act of bipartisanship this this patriotism that carl albert would actually resign this speaker ship. So uh member of the Party Opposite could become president and and have continuity with nixons party and and i really got interested in this so i really wanted to know was buys anecdote true and why hadnt it been id be very interested in in Garrett Graffs comments on this because youre sort of wonderful book on watergate, but why hasnt this been a more prominent feature of the watergate story . And could i find evidence of it and and more sort of aspirationally could this inspire the kind of bipartisanship that that greg jacob was talking about there were sort of lacking right now, and of course it would have implications for future vacancies. So i i contacted the birch by archives at the university of indiana and and try to reach senator by who unfortunately at that stage of his life was was not in a position to to remember that that part of his life and and had been suffering from some illnesses, but they did very nicely recommend that i speak to jay berman who i think is on this panel on the zoom today and he was a senator bias cheapest staff and he very graciously had lunch with me at the century club in new york. City and we talked about this phrase Party Opposite. He said, you know, it sounds like senator by and and and then i found some more information that albert didnt want to take a partisan advantage and become president and and he did not know about this plan to resign but jay told me that he recall the possible ted sorensen memo advising carl albert about this that and the other and and he said maybe its in the in the in the carl albert arcot. So i looked in the carl albert archives and