Board of directors who are here this evening. We have martha kumar is here. I have seen martha. Anita mcbride will be here shortly, if she is not here already. David firrea is on our board several members of our National Council of white house history, which we are always grateful to have. This evening, it is my honor and privilege to introduce a really terrific friend of mine and front of the White House Historical society, mark updegrove. He served as the president and the ceo of the lbj foundation in austin, texas. He is a president ial historian for abc news. He is also an accomplished author. Mark has actually authored five books on the presidency, including this book that we are celebrating this evening, incomparable grace, jfk in the presidency. I had the privilege of recording a podcast this afternoon with mark, which we will release later in the month when the book is officially released. It was a fascinating conversation. I really enjoyed my time with mark and i think you are going to enjoy the time with him here this evening. He has also written for the new york times, politico, national geographic, time, the daily beast, usa today, and most recently, he has been the executive producer for cnn original series lbj triumph and tragedy. If that is not enough, marcus had the privilege to be the envy of every journalist and historian who has interviewed exclusively seven american president s throughout his career. It was 61 years ago that a young john f. Kennedy was sworn into the office up by the capitol. By his side was jacqueline kennedy, who had become our first lady. She herself would go down in history as being one of our most influential first ladies. We have a particular reverence for her here at the White House Historical association. It was later that day on Inauguration Day that the president and mrs. Kennedy ended up at the white house. Mrs. Kennedy realized that this was a home. She was the peoples house, as she would call it. It was badly in need of a storm restoration. She believed that the white house should represent the very best of them america. Artisans, craftsman, decorative arts, fine arts, furnishings. She took that on athar project over the course of the next three years, coach or tragically by the assassination of president kennedy, but what she put in place than is still the legacy of her influence of Historic Preservation of the white house, acquisitions for the collection, and education. That is a key part of our mission. We are mrs. Kennedys living legacy at the white house today. Well, it was those 61 years ago that we were founded by her, and today we continue to celebrate my colleague colleen and David Rubenstein at the National Center for white house history which is really the educational part of our work and we will publish a quarterly magazine. We have conferences and book events like this. Publishing and storytelling is a vital part of what we do. Encouraging friends who can unpack these stories i asked mark earlier, you have another book called john kennedy. Did we really need another book about him . I read the book myself. It reads like a novel. It is insightful. It is inspiring. I thought to myself, reorient id in a really special way to the kennedy presidency. I think we can thank mark for that. I know you will all enjoy reading the book. Well, in 1792, the cornerstone for the white house was laid just about 200 yards from where we are sitting tonight. A whole lot of white house history has taken place in those years since 1792. Tonight, we are going to focus on three years on that history, a very important three years. Interviewing mark this evening is im not nawaz, who serves as the pbs news hours chief correspondent and primary substitute anchor. She has been honored with an emmy award for her and messy new special inside the obama white house. Society for features renalism award and a recipient of the National Reporting fellowship. In 2019, she received p body award for her news our series on the global tonight, she is going to discuss with mark this terrific new book which remarkably reexamines the kennedy presidency for us and that has so often been trapped behind the myth of kamala, if you will. This will be a portrait of the kennedy presidency its vision, its flaws, its charm, its triumphs, failures, and certainly its grace. Bringing those stories to live for us this evening, please welcome amna and mark to the stage. Hello, everyone. How nice to be in person with people and especially with you, mark. Thank you so much for having me here. Thank you for doing this. Wow. Thats big stuff. Here is the one thing i will say before we jump into questions. I have no personal connection to the kennedys. My family had not even set foot on these shores at the time that he was president. I was fascinated by this book. Stuart is right. It absolutely reads like a novel. I cant wait for everyone else to get a chance to read it as well. Lets go through some of my burning questions first. Here is the way this is going to work. I have about 20 minutes with you. We would love to open it up to the room for any questions you might have as well. If you see me checking my phone, it is not because i have somewhere to be. It is because i want to make sure i am respectful of everyones time. As stewart mentioned, there are a few books about jfk out there. Just a few. Some films, i watched all of them. Why jfk . Why did you decide to do this . Wonderful question. Before i answer it, i just want to thank you again for doing this. As i understand it, you have a job at the pbs news hours. I am a huge admirer of the work you do. Thank you so much. Thank you to my friend Stewart Mclaurin and all the people at the White House Historical society for running this marvelous institution. Thank you to my friend lauren for helping organize this and our mutual friend campbell struck out. There are so many people i would like to recognizable, one in particular, if i may. It really leads to your question, i answer to your question. And saudi is the widow of hugh sidey, who was the president watcher for time magazine. I had the great flavors of working with you. I got to know and hugh through the years. I will tell you that he is the president of the White House Historical association some 20 years ago. This means a great deal to hugh. He spent time with john f. Kennedy. During crucial hours of his presidency. I heard from hugh who john f. Kennedy was beyond the camelot. That got me very intrigued by john f. Kennedy. Hugh and i worked on a joint project. He started that project talking about john f. Kennedy. While there have been many books written, there is an old expression write the book you want to read. This is the book that i wanted to read about john f. Kennedy. I tried to make it a very brisk narrative that makes you feel as though you are going through these very tumultuous, very triumphant, very tragic days of the kennedy presidency. You are there with them day in and day out as he rustles with one issue or another. It is episodic, in a way. I also wanted to wrestle with the camelot mid, which overshadows kennedy in so many respects. It deprives him in so many ways of his humanity. That was important to me as well. There are so many books with an agenda. My only agenda was to capture this indelible president and what he meant to the country and the momentous decisions that came across his desk. The country is still so fascinated by him. They are fascinated by the family, this myth of camelot. Its still really grips americans to this day. Why do you think that is . You and i were just talking about this. Im still trying to figure it out for myself. I get that. John f. Kennedy was and continues to be how we want to see ourselves in the world. Youthful, ambitious, elegant, intelligent, compassionate. He embodied the notion of service over self. That is the image that he defused abroad at a time when i think we were the envy of the world in many respects. I think that is the way we want to see ourselves. He is the personification, in many ways and so to an extent is the vibrations kennedy family. They are personification of how we want to be seen. Did you learn something about him in writing this . A lot of things. I thought i knew his history pretty well. You and i were talking about civil rights. We were talking about them as being a very important aspect of the kennedy presidency. Why did he move on civil rights as he did in 1963 . He was wrestling with a civil rights in many ways. There was the freedom rides in 1961. There was the integration of old myths with the matriculated of James Meredith in 1962. The same thing happens at the university of alabama. There is the Civil Rights Movements direct Action Campaign in birmingham. During the course of that campaign when Martin Luther king was taken to jail and wrote the famous letter from the birmingham jail, the weight of the civil rights cause was coming down on kennedys presidency. He was going to have to act. He was very reluctant to act and do anything except for protect civil rights. I have always wondered why he did it that way. It turns out that Bobby Kennedy, who was his brothers chief aide, most trusted and close adviser, goes down south to alabama and meet with george wallace. He meets with horrific resistance down there. People were hurling epithets at him. They were treating him like not he is not like he is the attorney general. A more poignant episode for Bobby Kennedy comes when he meets with james baldwin, the novelist. A group of African American entertainers and artists that Bobby Kennedys father spent house in manhattan. It is a very uncomfortable situation where they are confronting Bobby Kennedy with the racism that the Kennedy Administration has not addressed. They are unrelenting in their criticism of him. It has a searing impression on him. It goes back i think this is another time, obviously. You know whats . If i were in those, shoes i would be saying the same thing. I think he had a marked impression on his brother as well. He finally his brother decides when george wallace, the governor of alabama, blocks the auditorium and goes to the nerve versatile of alabama so he knows he blocks and administrative building so that to African Americans ken matriculate the institution. Kennedy says, you know what . Im not going to let him have the stage. Im going to go and tell him and talk about this. He encourages him to do that. He elevates civil rights to a moral issue. The interesting thing is they dont have enough time to make an address. I dont have enough time to give you a proper address. Bob details his, rather speak extemporaneously. Speak from your heart. That speech, which is one of his rhetorical highlights, most of it is extemporaneous. That was something that really surprised me, how that came to fruition, how he came to embrace the Civil Rights Movement as a moral issue. Thats fascinating. He actually listened to his brother over the advice of most of his advisers, right . That is exactly right. His brothers tell him not to do it. Bobby says, you feel it. Go out until the American People. One of the things that fascinated me about the book is the way you broke it up. You have four parts, basically. You called on the torch, the fire, the brink, and the peak. Explain that a little bit. Why break it up that way . What do each of them mean . I will take you through the kennedy presidency. The torch, we all know, is the torch is passed. It is that famous passage of his inauguration speech. The torch was passed to a brandnew generation. The oldest president in history, dwight eisenhower, is leaving. The youngest president elected in history is coming. That is a generational shift. The torch was passed. At that point, kennedy has captured the imagination of americans. Bear in mind that john f. Kennedy only won the presidency by two tenths of a percentage point, right . By the time he is inaugurated, he gives that soaring eloquence at his inauguration. The American People are they are all in on john f. Kennedy. So much so that when he meets the fire the tortoise been passed, but the fire has yet to come. The fire comes with the bay of pigs and a number of other things that john f. Kennedy simply cannot anticipate. It says something about kennedy and the American People at that time and our country in another era. When kennedy suffers this huge black eye on his presidency with the bay of pigs quagmire where one over 100 cuba nationalists are killed in the incursion of cuba and 1200 are taken captive, the American People approve of john f. Kennedy with a tune of 83 . Only 5 of americans disapprove of john f. Kennedys job approval at that time. We rallied around our young president at a time when we were fighting for hearts and minds with the soviet union. We know how important it was to put all we had a behind this inexperienced, callow president. That is the fire. The brake comes in 1962 with the cuban missile crisis. We found ourselves on the brink of possible nuclear largely as a result of the failed that emboldens khrushchev. We come as close as we have ever come to the brink of nuclear disaster. These 13 harrowing days. I was talking about my friend hue sidey. He talked about meeting with john f. Kennedy at the height of the cuban missile crisis. It was at night. Kennedy and hugh had a long conversation in the oval office. Kennedy decided he wanted to go skinny dipping. Hugh said, i dont have a suit. He said, you dont need one. He leaves the white house that night and goes through those black gates. He doesnt know whether there is going to be tomorrow. That is how dark those days were. That was the brunt. The peak comes after that in 1963 or kennedy stands at the peak of his presidency. He has resolved the cuban missile crisis. He gains the esteem of the world. He is standing at his peak when he is cut down. That slim margin of victory, i dont think its talked about enough. Its amazing. Because you try to imagine what that would look like if it happened today. And it would be a very different reaction they think. So why, how can you maintain that kind of popularity . That sort of Approval Rating . Was it him . Was it where the country was at the time . A combination of the two . I think its partly a combination. People ask me all the time where joe biden get a better lbj. And the answer is because the world has changed. Our nation has changed. John f. Kennedy has a two thirds majority in the house and the senate. Hes battling on civil rights at least hes battling his own party in the south. But nonetheless theyre pretty handsome majorities. The media landscape was far more as much as any, there wasnt a proliferation of fragmentation of the media that we have today. We had three networks, abc, nbc, cbs. Pbs would come along much later in 1967. We had just a few newspapers. And so there was a more centrist a few of the world, and again, it says something major that kennedy would be as popular as he was just shortly into his presidency wasnt he wasnt doing so well on the world stage. You know a thing or two about lbj, fair to say. [laughs] talk to me about their relationship. What was that like . Well, people talk about the kennedys and lbj. And the kennedys were not monolithic. They were different candidates and they had different relationships. About the relationship between jack kennedy and Lyndon Johnson was amicable. There was a mutual respect, grudging at times, but mutual respect. John Kennedy Remembered when he got when he wanted to get something done is a senator from massachusetts, a backbencher who didnt achieve a whole lot relative relative to the piers he had in the upper chamber, but he remembers he had to go through Lyndon Johnson, the all powerful janet Senate Majority leader. His father, joe kennedy, the kennedy patriarch, had an enormous respect for Lyndon Johnson. In fact he told his son, dont take the second spot on the 1956 democratic ticket unless Lyndon Johnson is the president ial nominee. And even offered to fund the campaign if Lyndon Johnson chooses to run. So there was Great Respect their. I think the confusion about this comes where Bobby Kennedy comes in. Bobby kennedy despised Lyndon Johnson and Lyndon Johnson didnt feel any differently about Bobby Kennedy. There were just fundamentally different people. But i think john f. Kennedy really, he picked Lyndon Johnson to go on the ticket for two reasons. One, three reasons, rather. One was political. He needed the southern balance on the ticket. And what better balance ended and johnson from austin, texas. He had so much power. But the second one is that he picked a Vice President because he was the person most capable in his view of operating in the presidency should something happen to him. And then that, that was the case. I mean, when you look back on it now, you see theres so much reflection on his abbreviated presidency, right . But it was an incredibly eventful presidency. Just that short tenure. So you mentioned the cuban missile crisis, of course, what we were actually facing at the time. Was that, is it fair to say that was sort of the darkest hour . Was that the worst that it got . Out was there the greatest triumph too for him . Yeah. Theres no question in my mind. That is the darkest moment. Not only in the kennedy presidency, but maybe the darkest moment in humankind to come that close to nuclear annihilation. Bear in mind, the majority of the American People at that point in time believed that theres going to be a Nuclear Exchange imminently. Thats how tense the relationship was between the soviet union and the United States of america. Its interesting because theres, theres a transition between eisenhower and kennedy, the second of two meetings that they had, and this, when it takes place in january 19th, 1961, the day before kennedy is inaugurated as president. And they talk about the trouble spots in the world, all the trouble spots, of which there are many. And you can see eisenhowers almost relief in relinquishing these problems and giving them over to jack kennedy. And kennedy leaves the white house and as the limousine is departing, he looks at an aid in the back seat and says of eisenhower, how can he stare in the face of disaster with such equanimity . But its equanimity which defines kennedy in that most, you know, dark power, in that most desperate hour of his presidency in the cuban missile crisis. He has come. Theres almost preternatural calm that comes over jfk. Hes measured, he doesnt panic, he doesnt paint himself into a corner, and hes desperately looking for a way out. The grace under pressure. As you say in the title. He was very compartmentalized. Different people saw a different kennedy. People say the same thing about Lyndon Johnson. There was a certain vitality that he had we look at him as being so vigorous, so youthful. He had battled illness his whole life. I think he saw the tenuousness of human life. He had been in world war ii. He lost his brother there. He lost his sister thereafter. A sister rosemary had a lobotomy because of retardation. It was meant to be a cure. He sought the fleeting hold that life had. He tried to make the most of his life. Those really crucial hours, the cerebral kennedy kicked in. He was really thoughtful about what are the best approach would be going forward. He was determined to avoid military conflict. In allows, when the berlin wall went up, and of course during the cuban missile crisis, he wanted peace. He did not react in anger. He did not listen to the jingoistic military advisers who were telling him that he needed to that defines kennedy in his best moments. What about today . What is his legacy 60 years later on in the party, on the presidency, on the country . Im going to read a passage from my book, if i may. I would bastardized this. I really thought about this. What his legacy looks like throughout the course of his restless, a bridge dream in the white house, he dealt with the pressures of the office, standing on feet of clay at times, showing flashes of greatness and all he did in so many ways, kennedy again, he personifies that notion of service of self. The phrase we most remember about john f. Kennedys asked not. Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. That has become this timeless expression of an american ideal that we should all be reaching beyond ourselves. Kennedy, at his rhetorical high [inaudible] i could keep going another hour. I will stop here and open it up to the room. Yes. I was intrigued when you began the conversation by referencing you sidey. I recall catherine grahams memoir in which she examined the relationship between the media press and the presidency and how close it was to talk about you sidey going swimming with the president in a pool in the night. It seemed so dark. Lbj comes along in a tragic murder. How did that relationship change . In what way . It seems that and i would like to hear you talk about this, whether or not John Kennedys profile with the press heightened his profile around the world and whether or not a changed relationship had an effect on Lyndon Johnsons profile. My friend riley temple. Thats a great question, riley. John f. Kennedy was a journalist himself. He worked for newspapers during the Second World War after he came back from combat. He had admired journalists. He thought that he might by a newspaper in his post presidency. I think there was a distinct possibility that he appreciated the furthest and as being a fundamental part of american democracy. You knew the value and cultivating relationships. I can tell you in talking to you, who had a few scars on his calves from being metaphorically kicked by john f. Kennedy for his coverage, kennedy had enormous respect for hugh and what he did. We have respect for the professionalism. He also knew the clout of time magazine. Time again was a bohemian at the time. I think things start to fade when we are in the johnson presidency. Bear in mind that john f. Kennedy created this liberal tide. It is liberal in the most literal sense. It flows into the john f. Kennedy presidency. Faith and government in 1964 stands at 77 . That is largely because of john f. Kennedy, i think, helping us believe in ourselves and believe in our government. Lyndon johnson takes advantage of that. He pushes the laws of the great society, mostly in 1965 after he is elected to the presidency. He faces the quagmire of vietnam. He is not necessarily truthful with the American People, maybe by his own doing or because he is being misled by advisers. As the war becomes more and more controversial, the press becomes more and more critical. I think that is when things start to slide. All president s have a mixed relationship with the press. Barack obama came to the lbj library. If there was a quote from Lyndon Johnson. If i walked across the potomac, the headline in the next days Washington Post would be, president cant swim. That never changes, right . There is always some sort of adversarial relationship. John f. Kennedy beguiled the press about as well as any president can. Thank you, riley. We just work our way across. Thank you. Thank you for being here. The elbow here lbj special was really lovely. Congrats on a. Thank you. A specialist what would you look for as a voter in your modern president . Say that again, im so sorry. What would you look for in a president. As a scholar of the presidency. I will ask this before. I think at the end of the day all president s are different. They come in with a different skill sets and experience. They come in with different visions and outlooks on the world. I think it is hard to paint any leader with the same brush. We should expect Different Things from different leaders. Not everyone is capable of the same things. At the end of the day, the best we can expect from our president is that they love their country and they do their best. Most of the president s in my lifetime and in my view have held up to that criteria. They did their best and they love their country. John f. Kennedy certainly fits that criteria. Lyndon johnson does as well and so many others. I dont know that we can ask for anything else. John f. Kennedy looked so different from dwight eisenhower. [inaudible] all those four president s were in the top ten of all president s. This was for a very, very different reason. By god, if you love your country and you give us your very best, things are probably going to wind up pretty well for the American People. I think the microphones are working their way around here. Thank you very much for this. It is a wonderful discussion. Mark, your books are great. Your four part series with lbj is great. A wonderful occasion. Two questions. Number one we all learned that character is primary. It is a very important thing. It is very odd that kennedys character of Public Service was so exemplary and so inspiring. His personal character was not so exemplary acts so inspiring. There seems to be a total split between, you know, Public Service that he did and the values that he had and the private values that he had, which were pretty despicable if you look back at it now. The second point is that you are absolutely right that the Marty Sherwood has a new book out that is just terrific on that. The way kennedy handled it was just terrific. When you look back as the kennedy presidency, you just wonder, what was lasting about it . What did he do in those years that really lasted . You are in charge of the lbj library. There are so many things we are celebrating on the 50th anniversary. Every day, we see lbj programs that benefit all of us. It is hard to think of one from kennedy. Yeah. Two points, thank you, ken. Those are both wonderful observations. To your first point, it was interesting to write about this mad men era president in the metoo era. I talk about that. I really put a light up to his character, by virtue of where we stand in 2022. As much as we have advanced as a society in that regard. And you are right, kennedy doesnt look good. The cuban missile crisis, i just want to comment on that. The misconception is that it was a zero sum victory for the United States. That the russians, the very emboldened Nikita Khrushchev, sends missiles into cuba and we stare on and a blank and withdraw. And thats true. But we didnt realize until years later, there is a quid pro quo agreement around that. There were missiles in turkey that we had that were dangerously close to the soviet border, posing an existential threat, just as there were about to be or where missiles and cuba, just 90 miles from american shores. So, it is a great moment for kennedy. But we realize much later that it was due to a back channel negotiation that we get out of that peacefully. Its a credit to kennedy, but it is not a zero sum victory. In terms of what is lasting, heres my view on that. Again, i mentioned that high tide of liberalism that kennedy creates. Its funny, you look at the legacies of john kennedy and Lyndon Johnson and so often they are either team kennedy or team johnson. And neither the twain shall meet. They have incredibly complimentary legacies, in my view. Because john f. Kennedy gets us thinking beyond ourselves, because he instill such faith in government, Lyndon Johnson is able to capitalize on that and get through the laws of the great society. Which become the foundation of modern america. The civil rights act, for instance, of 1963, which can be proposed in that speech i was just talking about, was largely languishing in the halls of congress when kennedy died. He didnt have the legislative will or the might or both to get it through. Lyndon johnson did, and he did that we in so many unfinished things from the Kennedy Administration. In many cases, lbj made the bigger but john f. Kennedy tried to get through medicaid and failed. He tried to get through federal aid to education and failed. All these things were on his desk, but the one thing that kennedy does is get us thinking about a better america. And Lyndon Johnson can capitalize on that. If i can follow up on one thing. Im curious, from a historians perspective, the relegations that we know now about his personal character and his rampant womanizing. Does that change how we, as a country, should view his presidency and his leadership . The one thing i would say, ken is right that its despicable behavior in many respects. If you look at the way he treats an intern, theres a book by Robert Dallek about john f. Kennedy, the unfinished presidency, and which he reveals that there was a white house intern to whom, who loses her virginity to john kennedy at the age of 19 in her first week at the white house. He takes her around the country and the world almost as a concubine. Its very difficult to excuse this kind of behavior. But i will say, it didnt affect his ability to discharge the duties of the presidency. It might have compromised amid some, point but it did not. I think he comes by his womanizing relatively honestly, his father was a rampant womanizer himself. I think, for the kennedys, womanizing was almost a way of keeping score in an odd way. Heres john f. Kennedy, trying to get the most out of life. Those notches on his belt where a part of it in a way, in a weird way, i cant explain it. But it is certainly a deficit of character. I would say, amna, at the time, Walter Cronkite spoke about the fact if a politician was womanizing or abusing alcohol, it didnt matter if it didnt affect his duties to be a public official. And so, the gloves were off and kennedy knew that, to a certain extent, i think. That there wasnt this great scrutiny by the press corps. Of course, that would change markedly later. And should change, frankly, we should know that about our politicians. Question . We know that khrushchev met kennedy in vienna and i think that the story was, anyway, that he thought that kennedy was no big thing and was probably just a young boy. And he could deal with him. Whats finally convinced khrushchev to back off . Was it the missiles in turkey or was it that somehow kennedy had shown enough strength that he would back down or respect him . John, i begin the book with john f. Kennedy talking about a member of the press, riley, and this goes back to your point on how intimate the relationship was between kennedy and the press. But the book begins with a prologue. It is john f. Kennedy, right after going mano a mano with Nikita Khrushchev at the summit, the superpower summit in vienna. Kennedy goes in this glamorous, elegant figure, potentially dashing figure on the world stage. We have these high expectations. And khrushchev goes in thinking that hes very callow and can be exploited. Kennedys performance over those two days against the very truculent, very pugnacious Nikita Khrushchev, leads khrushchev to believe that he is, and im quoting khrushchev, too intelligent and too weak. And kennedy knows that khrushchev has this impression. He goes back after these endless two days of meetings with khrushchev to the American Embassy in vienna and he talks to scotty weston, whos a reporter from the new york times. Its an offtherecord conversation in which kennedy concedes that he has been savaged, those are his words, by khrushchev. Kennedy. It emboldens khrushchev to make the move in cuba and its the resolution of that, that conflict between the two that gives khrushchev respect for kennedy for the first time for. The reasons that ive mentioned, the way that khrushchev talked about it in his memoir is that kennedy was clear headed in that moment he, did show grace and equanimity. He did talk to khrushchev albeit through back channels to find peaceful resolution and again he didnt paint himself into a corner and. That made a difference. And after that point, khrushchevs stock goes down in the world, and john f. Kennedys goes up. There are so many fascinating details in this book. I really enjoyed reading it. I really hope everyone gets a chance to read them all, id be one to respectful of every parties time and i want to give your chance to share any piece of information or historian or get from here that you think people would find interesting before we leave the stage and enjoy the rest of the evening. I tell you quick story that i love. It comes from my old friend hugh sidey. Kennedy goes, has this wonderful inauguration, the entire world is watching and talked about the soaring eloquence in that moment and then he goes on to the inaugural balls afterwards and he goes to a party and we also the warning at, a call across back in the white house around three in the morning. And because of the president ial bedroom is being renovated, he sleeps in the lincoln bedroom. The next day hes asked, what was it like to sleep in the bed of Abraham Lincoln and . He said, i just climbed in and hung on. [laughs] [laughter] and i think thats true for almost any president. Im going to, thank you so much for conducting the conversation. Thank you. [applause] thank you very much. Thank you, what a delight [applause] thank you very much amna and mark for this conversation tonight, and thank you all for joining us here at decatur house, the White House Historical association, and for those of you watching by cspan, thank you for your interest in our work and our mission and telling these important stories of white house history. The book is available, marks available to sign. Thank you so much, and have a good. Evening [applause] frequent viewers of our lunchtime lectures know that this is normally where id hand off to the president s ceo of the us capitol h
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