Transcripts For CSPAN3 The Presidency 20151221

Historical narrative about president lincolns wife mary. She considers how mary would have been remembered if she had died instead of her husband. Also talking about why the critics have labeled her crazy. Southern Methodist University center for president ial University Posted this event. It is not only an honor and a privilege to introduce tonight speaker, it is to me, a personal delight because she and i were classmates in princeton many years ago. Catherine clinton is the professor of American History at the university of texas at san antonio. She is also one of this countrys most distinguished historians of american women, the south, and the civil war. She is a proud daughter of kansas city, missouri, and she studied as an undergraduate at harvard. Shooin for a phd at princeton, completing her dissertation on the direction of james mcpherson. Her dissertation will be published in 1982 as the book the plantation mistress. It was her first work to be characterized justly as pioneering. Drawing on the diaries, man wires of hundreds of plantar challenges and interprets a host of issues related to the old south. The book forces us to rethink some of our basic assumptions about two peculiar institutions. The slave plantation, and the 19thcentury family. It alters our understanding of the old south and womens place in it. Catherine, we go would go on to author or edit by my count some 17 additional books, all of which are in the library. Several became History Book Club selections. These included biography of harry tubman, the mosyslike conductor of the underground railroad which the Chicago Tribune put on their list for the best works of nonfiction in 2004. More recently, she published mrs. Lincoln a life. Volume is an engaging, wonderfully written narrative that provides fresh insight into this complex woman. It is a triumph. According to pulitzer prizewinning historian joseph ellis, the biography is distinctive for its abiding sanity. Its daft and indepth handling of the white house years and for the consistent quality of prose. Along the way, she has also written several history books for children and she has worked as a consultant on to Academy Awardwinning movies. And steven slave spielbergs lincoln. Shes been at commentator for documentaries. Her lectures are often broadcast on bbc and cspan. To utsa she taught at harvard, brandeis, the citadel, wesleyan, and queens university. Belfast, northern ireland. Finally, not long ago, she was elected by her peers and is now serving as president of the Southern Historical association. A richly deserved capstone recognition for her career achievements in her field of endeavors. So far. Please give a warm welcome to professor catherine clinton. [applause] prof. Clinton i am worn out after hearing all of these things. Thank you, tom, for that very warm introduction. Im very pleased to return to the smu campus where i have enjoyed my visit before. To make my way here. Thank you for making my me feel some welcome. About aased to talk topic, mary lincolns assassination. Americans are nationally focused on honoring the memory of the fallen leader and his legacy remains daunting. At this moment in his legacy, it might behoove us to look at the impact of lincolns death when hundred 50 years ago on another key player in the civil war white house. Mary lincoln. It is my hope that from the Vantage Point of a century and a half we can find a more authentic narrative to appreciate what i have come to call mary lincolns assassination. Im not trenches cdquality cd quality, parity, or any other false construct for mrs. Lincoln. I do think a more judicious appreciation of her role in lincolns life and legacy would be served by examining what i call a 3d approach. The experience of mary lincoln on the night of april 14, 1865. Subsequent trauma. , the scrutiny endured by lincolns wife particularly in the white house. Carving out a place for herself as first widow. Three, the character assassination heaped on mary lincoln most lately by a parade of lincoln scholars. I hope to leave all of these elements together to create a more threedimensional look at her legacy. Full dimensions of the 16th president s death are well chronicled. There are over 600 titles of arable and the library of congress. Mary side of the story and the full impact of the tragedy remains relatively underexplored. Lincoln,y, the widow premiered earlier this year. Mary lincoln had influence over lincolns legacy, most particularly his association with black rights as the martyrpresident s gunned down by an opponent of the black vote. On april 11, two days after lee surrendered to grant, lincoln addressed a gathering crowd in the white house balcony. Any reconciliation between former enemies would be challenging. He discussed the need for cooperation and mention the possibility of black veterans voting. Lincoln ended his speech by suggesting there would be further developments. Historian suggested one man in the audience understood perfectly what lincoln intimated. John wilkes booth told his companion that it meant black citizenship and confided, now, i will put him through. Thats the last speech you will ever make. Historians continue to debate the myriad of reasons why lincoln was killed. Recent scholarship has confirmed that lincoln and his assassination was at a minimum politically motivated. Maximum, a crime. It elevated him to our first civil rights martyr. Lincoln is part of a long list of martyrs who died for black voting rights. James chaney, andrew goodwin, Martin Luther king, tragically, so many more. The misguided attempts to razz the defeated south to carry on the revolution rebellion backfired. It took on religious dimensions. His death was linked to that of jesus. To marry lincoln, a terrible fulfillment of premonition which is haunted her for years. The event divided her life into before and after. A wound which would not heal. How did she experienced the death of her husband. Something which nearly half a million wives had suffered in the past half decade. Not well. Extremely poorly. It was this initial. That signal that she would endure a loss of her protector. Late atand wife arrived for theater. Their entrance interrupted the stage. The band played hell to the chief. Settledand the guests into seats in the president ial box. A celebrated actress was playing a starring role in our american cousin. It was a popular standard, but the lincoln presence during the evening into an exuberant page ratification. He was a devoted theatergoer. This evening promised to be jubilant. Mrs. Lincoln was relieved because her son robert had just returned home from active duty. She and her husband have fought bitterly over his enlistment. Army was restored. Lincoln read his wife a playful note that day to invite her on a drive. It was a jet the president was attentive. He engaged the young couple who accompany them to the theater and enhanced mrs. Lincoln surmounted may. While the play, she cleaned to her husband are mentees him about what they guess my think of her. Lincoln replied she will not think anything about it. These were his last words. P. M. , John Wilkes Booth crept into the president ial box and fired his pistol directly into the back of lincolns head. Next he attacked Henry Rathbone with a knife before leaping onto always tohouting tyrants. Whether he hurt his leg in the fall or during the escape on horseback. It remains a matter of dispute. As do so many of the events of that evening. Dissolving into chaos. Noise, blood. Everything went out of focus for mary except her husband had. Send forward on his chest. His limbs slack. Witnesses all agree that mrs. Lincoln screams alerted the audience. Once she saw blood, mary shrieked. They have shot the president. A doctor unable to find the pulse. Dr. Attends mouthtomouth. Followed by she felt helpless. Soldiers lifted her husband. They carried him across the street. During the scene which unfolded, mary wondered why it was not she who was shot. This is actually prompting me to look at a counterfactual issue in an article entitled why first is widow. How would history judge mary if it had been her instead of lincoln who had been shot . What kind of life which he be . What would her legacy be. Lincoln alone was the one wounded and doctors agreed that there was no expectation of recovery. All except mary recognize that the end was near. The cabinet gathered by lincolns bedside while secretary of War Edwin Stanton issued orders and took charge. Updating the outside world, trying to organize an unprecedented National Manhunt to apprehend the assassin. The National Park service preservation at the peterson home allowed visitors today to reimagine lincolns last hours. Many portraits included mrs. Lincoln kneeling or sitting by the bed. The truth was she had been banished from the room. She wanted to remain by her husbands wide. When she began to sob hysterically she was seeing into a nearby parlor. She realized that her husband was not getting any better. Worse. She collapsed into the floor. Edwin stanton barked take that woman out and do not let her in again. The deathbed of a loved one is a hallowed ritual. Her ancestors were scotch iris. In victorian america, attending a dying has been was a wifes most sacred duty and obligation. Depressed interim memory this final moment, to be there at the very end. Everyone crowded in that room that night new a life the breeding was halting and labored. No one summoned mary. Instead, the reverend suggested a prayer. Men encircledzen her beloved leader. Lincoln was abraham dead. Edwin stanton uttered his tribute, now he belongs to the ages. Forgotten are the words of marry lincoln. Why did you not tell me was dying . Her cry was heard throughout the house. It was her was agreed that alerted those outside the peterson home. Abraham lincoln was gone. It was in that moment the circle of men surrounding lincoln expelling his life from his dying bedside that marries the trail began. She became an exile within her own historical experience. Her husbands death mary was cast adrift. Only able to imagine assuming her rightful place alongside her husband. Mary did not want to leave her husband so she stayed on at the peterson home another two hours. Abraham lincolns reputation has soared. His wifes reputation had tumbled into a deeper decline. He becomes the more infirm all. She began an object of pity confined to the sidebars of her husbands narrative. She did survive to attend one of her sons weddings. She dedicated herself to keeping his legacy. His halo polish. Simultaneously, she entered a series of crippling relations and losses. Contemporaries and scholars alike debate the relationship between lincoln and his wife. No other occupants of the white house have endured such media attention. Until the Kennedy White house. The media Industrial Complex which follows. This has been surpassed by speculation. That is bill clinton and hillary. Did marry lincoln ever throw a lamp . Other historical insights. Its important to see marry lincoln and her relationship with her husband continues to fascinate. The questions would follow, did he love her first . Did he love her best . Did he left for it all . Was she the only woman who could cajole him from his crippling, frequent bouts of melancholy and redirecting toward his destined greatness . Did she nag and abuse him. Wishing a partner only for propriety . Was lincolns desire for no companionship purely spiritual or was the physical component . Claims and counterclaims continue to shake, rattle, and roll the scholarship. We try to examine the facts of the courtship. Naturally, dispute the reps. Im happy to answer any questions about this. Its a rather intricate and quite hotly contested id suggest once the gold ring was slipped on marries finger during the ceremony in november of 1842 the two into lines their fate allowing the currents to stir within them. Mary was her has been sounding board. She was deeply partisan. Blimey well. Held for scratches. Advice live freely. Mary believes she had married a diamond in the rough. She spends a good deal of her energy polishing that diamond. 1858, lincoln confided laughingly to a journalist that his wife had insisted that he would eventually be president of the u. S. Marries critics gave her credit for playing a crucial role in the rise of lincoln. Her skimming helped him get the nomination. They were jubilant. He enjoyed getting to meet the president. Mary would have loved the estimation that the polish Abraham Lincoln had acquired may be credited to the influence of his wife. Her husbands election put her under the microscope. Press coverage became relentless during the winter of 1860. The first lady became an easy target for the lincoln presidency. She felt herself in a fishbowl. One journalist recalled that she drove down pennsylvania avenue. When the lincolns arrived at the white house president James Buchanan wrote mrs. Lincoln is awfully western. Glad in unrefined. At one of her first reception in march of 1861 british journalist found the attendance is very scanty. The washington ladies and not yet made up their minds. As mrs. Lincoln going to be the fashion . The draw comparisons between them and the vulgar yankee women. Some of the earliest press reports said she was incapable of measuring up to revise eastern standards. Mrs. Lincoln was quite offended by the cold shoulders. And very intent upon proving her critics wrong. The new first lady believe that the white house should be a shedding symbol of a great nation. Especially when parol abounded. The executive mansion were shabby. Relations complained that the place is no better than a secondrate hotel. Congress approved when he thousand dollars for white house refurbishing which i compared to other congressional appropriations, for example, it was less than the 125,000 appropriated to Andrew Johnson family. Mary lincoln sought the advice of the commissioner of building for the district. He was a former Hotel Manager and tour operator. He had been drafted by new york party boss to assist lincolns. There were Permanent Appointment and he peddled his influence and pocketed kickbacks. 1851, one particularly outraged new york reporter voiced his disdain. Thousands and thousands of dollars for articles of luxurious taste. She was at events in her cousins defense. Mary cannot indulge in the extravagance she selected find china. Chargers were new colors named after european battles. She designated this with the seal of the u. S. On each piece. President ial china was nothing new. This is the very same pattern i saw that was selected by the First Lady Michelle Obama the. What is remembered are not her taste or her pay judaism but that she ordered a second set at a cost of 1100. They insisted that it was not paid for by the district commissioner as is most charged. Fueled rumors about the extravagance. He regaled his daughter with tales of mrs. Lincolns overspending. Scandalous reports that mrs. Lincoln. And lincoln himself. And the treasury department. Newspapers full of allegations feel the controversy. Beenirst lady may have compromising the ethics to which her husband subscribed. Particularly frugality. There is no evidence to suggest that she participated in criminal conspiracy. What was actually investigated for bad financial practices. Remove from office. Naturally not only was this called a conspiracy, but there were those who intimated that there was an intimate conspiracy between the two. Critics continue to spread stories to such a degree that the editor of the New York Herald complained in october about the abuse heaped on the first lady. She remained at the center of media controversy and bad press. Even her husbands own staff refer to their bosss wife as how cap. She suffered from mood swings. First after the death of willy. Then following a head injury from a carriage accident in june 1863. A carriage accident which happened when the carriage was sabotaged. It was lincolns carriage. It was assumed this was an attempt on his life. Instead, his wife had a lifethreatening injury to the head. Thereafter grown son. 1864, she went on another shopping spree. The papers again. Mrs. Lincoln ransacked treasury. Hostesson political complained that while her sister the wife of the president spent her time rolling to and fro between washington and new york. Intent on extravagance for the white house. The New York Times reported austerity campaigns among the well ladies. Mrs. Lincoln counted by talking to congressional members who said that it would bolster the u. S. Economy. She invested in her own agenda and demanded and received confirmation that what she did was to actually be a patriot during this time. We know that she was quite worried. She saw the Reelection Campaign in 1864 quite crucial to her personal relations as well as relations of the nation. The crushing debt that she feared would not come when her has been one and with peas, she felt that she and her husband would be able to enjoy life. With her husbands death on the heels of surrender, she became notorious, eccentric, derided. Bad press during the war was nothing compared to the melodramas as a widow. Most prominent claims by her husbands former partner that lincoln sweetheart from new salem was the former president one true love. , claims byaging lincolns business associate that the president s widow was a blackmailing person besmirching her husbands memory. By trying to pawn her jewelry and wardrobe. Political enemy suggested that she did not deserve sympathy or financial support. When lincoln died, there was no widow pension. Her husbands estate was tied up with lawyers for over two years. She was annas in a state of severe dislocation. Once her older son married in 1868, she took her son to europe for his education. Homesick, the two returned to roberts home in chicago. Shortly thereafter, he fell in. His death hit his mother and brother very hard. If years later, mary lincoln endured and in bettering alienation from her only remaining son robert. 1875, he committed his mother against her will to an asylum. For her own safety. Incalculable damage to her steam. This often created permanent stain on historical reputation. Not only the headlines in the 1870s, the more than 100 years the first question i was always asked was was she crazy . 1920s, willing to biographers gather momentum his wife languished. It began to look as if there were conspiracies about lincolns wife. Research began biography and they discover that Mary Todd Lincoln was one of the most light about women in the world. Had thethe 20s they publishers hyperventilation in order to get the story across. 1928, a very good year. Publishhen her knees the true story of mary. These volumes were intended to contradict the very harsh and sympathetic portraits of lincolns wife and previous work. They took aim at negative images project did, executed and supported by william. Biographer this prove the most persistent and democratic of mary lincoln. Reverberations from the charges are still very much with us. Personal antipathy between lincolns law partner and lincolns wife mary has been well documented. Of was the social Center Springfield during that time. We have records of her many balls and parties. 300 people in the little house on the prairie. Record of them being invited to the house. November of 1866, he gave a famous speech on lincoln. Ushering in the religion history. Its the most enduring legacy. Mrs. Lincoln, this was a full frontal assault. A shattering blow. Wereforementioned volume joined by other rehabilitative works. Including studies by William Evans and Carl Sandburg in 1932. Another 1973. Another 1972. Another 1973. Jean baker, 1987. During the late 20 century, there was a rejection of revisionist interpretations and replaced as the harshest critic. He places blame for misery within the marriage which he says is a given on mary. His thoughtful and important studies of lincoln, he frequently introduces mary lincoln and her shortcomings. And the disastrous effects on her husband. Beyond the confines of marital relations. For example, hes a just and order to avoid conflict with his difficult life link it an inordinate amount of time away from home. Such a tactic may have made his unfortunate marriage tolerable. It deprived the children of much contact with their father. Lakins absenteeism may seem striking but it might have been only a strategy for success. The absence of context leads to a rather biased view. He comments that the few surviving letters between the lincolnss do not suggest a deep love on either side. It goes on to state the most markable feature of that correspondence is it sparseness. I agree. There is a sparseness, but most of us in the field know that there was a burn pile outside of the springfield home. Also, i would disagree, one of my favorite letters is when lincoln is a you are free of headaches and then he goes on to ask mary have you weighed yourself . Always been, what kind of couple would be seen is not compatible when a wife would jolly with her husband about her weight. Century, theres been a new detractor. Familiar, he uses the to please historians. Then, in the critic rock, he compares her to a psychopath like hitler. He proclaims the marriage of them rank as one of the worst marital misfortunes in recorded history. As flat for hyperbole presented as much of a problem as does his death before his book was published. Mary lincoln is a popular refrain echoing down through the ages of lincoln scholars. Uld suggest that if mary lincoln had died in in assassinsnot hands, but quietly in chicago, what would her legacy be . And used a warmer climate. Certainly, her early demise would have spared her the scandal. No battles have been with debates on the congressional flirt disparaging her. There would be no spiritual photographs of the lincoln. There would have been no commitment to bellevue. And asylum in illinois. Perhaps she would have been showered with praise, but it was not to be. The final years of her life were filled with memories of loss. Citing the indignities. Thank you. Fighting the indignities. Her reputation would fade with her depth. Biographers would resurrect her. Only to knock it out again. Think you so much. 2013, a headline in new York Magazine anoints mrs. Lincoln the first lady of depth. The indictment that some historians have leveled against her, are disproportionally harsh and also employed that lynn of hindsight. For example, this is my particular favorite, mary lincoln shopping spree in the months leading up to the assassination, he and the most egregious cases, has been quite unfair to the subject. Mary cannot have a timeline. As to when her husband would be murder. She did not know about this. She was compared by the American Press most lavishly in the 1980s. Mary lincoln was not addicted to shoes. However, her cereal and multiple glove purchases were nothing short of a mania. Incredible indictments continued that she was a scheming criminal and disease person. In a 2003 volume, her physical ailments at the end of her life that thisr suggests stems from the fx of syphilis. There was a harsh 19thcentury cure for the new real diseases but this is not marys problem. Instead, her back and eyesight and many other attributes began to fail. Equally debilitating, the estrangement from her son. Her only remaining child. The fading memories of a happier day and the long drawn out deterioration of her physical stamina. At her mental facilities. Mary lincolns character had undergone relet mr. Pete assaults. Lincoln was gone with a bullet within hours. Mrs. Lincolns suffering stretched out for another 16 years. She was so mr. Bushey cannot overcome the oceans of the and the floods of sorrow that engulfed her. Clearly, many times and she was able to find some light in the darkness areas and beat back her despair, obstacles would intervene. She embraced the final escape of death and anticipated a reunion with her husband. That might have been the end of it if mary lincoln could join the company of sarah, and florence harding. Toongwilled first lady faded into obscurity. Because of the rise of her husbands reputation, she is periodically reviewed and unpacked. She has always been judged by the standards of cross examiners. Once again, her character is proverbially toasted on coals. Im always very fascinated by the scholars who invest so much in lincoln. And his greatness. His foresight. His wisdom. Yet, how is it that he was such a hapless victim in his choice and character with his wife . We have to recognize that her central role to his stability and her fostering his political prosperity was perhaps a choice, indeed a wise one on his part. After they moved into the white house whatever liabilities presented during the civil war, she was the lifelong companion with whom he hoped to pursue his dreams and spend the rest of his life. I intended to make some historical restitution with my 2009 biography which was written on the foundations of previous work. Im indeed indebted to that work. More poorly, i undertook the project with the framework of what may be called a hostile work environment. To lead up to the lincoln bicentennial. When it seemed that mary lincoln haters were out in full force. If you never store reputation because once you are smeared in the headlines the correction is on the inside pages in smalltime. It remains valuable to expose the naked conspiratorial plot. The fascination in American History has complex dynamics which reflect tenacious patterns of folklore and storytelling but in the centennial season, we should recognize that they are layers upon layers of truth meaning for us to excavate. Not all truths will be selfevident. Certainly if you will be equal to the fictions we continue to tell ourselves. I have come to accept that not all jews are politically correct. As historians, we should strive to the very awkward intersection when new truths might emerge. The past is always the force will historians continue to debate clash interpretations. It is my hope that more than a century and a half after the tragedy, Abraham Lincoln assassination we can put our new 3d glasses. To take in the fact that discrediting lincolns life, tumbling her reputation is a blood sport that has passed its due date. Attentionwe shift our on to the private, rather than the public tragedy of lincolns passing . Abraham was gone. His wife and sons like thousands of americans were bowed down from loss. She spent the rest of her days struggling with grief. Today, we can recognize our battle and commit to rebuild. Mary lincoln reflects more about our own times than those of mrs. Lincoln. As a biographer, i say, let us now praise difficult women. Thank you so much. [laughter] prof. Clinton thank you for the applause. Fellows. E our they have microphones. During the q a, if you wait for the microphone to get to you so all of us can hear your questions, that will help a lot . Please, i did shorten this talk to make it something that i hoped would provoke questions. I see we have a hand appear and a hand there. This summer i visited robert todd lincolns house in manchester, vermont. A wonderful place. Some of the literature i saw let me to believe that there was a reconciliation between he and his mother. Indeed. Lincoln child was born. Roberts daughter mary was born. Mary lincolnd that very much was attached to. She believed it was named after her and ignore the facts. That the childs mother was sent to mary. Estrangement from the grandchild and quite difficult. When hisd indeed mother returned from her european surgeon. Fromear she was released the asylum, she first went to her sisters home in springfield and then she went abroad saying that she heard being recommitted. Was, a verye she intelligent welleducated woman of wealth and she thought privilege and she found herself locked away. Her big rights were taken away. She thought to get out of the asylum by hook and crook and by writing to lawyers and getting herself free. Then she escaped and went abroad. She did come back when she was ill and we know that she cap in touch with robert and found that she was following his political fortunes because another president lincoln was something that many of the Party Faithful were trying to promote. She was someone who is willing to completely recolor the relationship again and again. They did not have a close relationship. Robert did indeed bring the own daughter to visit her grandmother in springfield. We know they did see one another during that. I have read that mary lincoln well read and view politics very well. The politicians of that time no that she had this ability and that it was influencing the president ended that have anything to do with how she was perceived . Prof. Clinton i argue in my book and in subsequent articles that she was indeed a very political woman. As my good friend at the university of virginia reminds us, there are parlor politics as well. Other people have written about pillow politics. I think mary really exercise a very strong tongue. Very strongminded. She was the daughter of a politician. Illinois had married a son of a governor. Her sister in kentucky and the senate the governor. She was used to being around politicians all the time. It greatly surprised me to discover lincoln ran for election in illinois, early on, he was visiting a part of the bluebloods. He married into the todd family. He had access to political circles. Rumors of a dual lincoln undertook. To defend his honor when it was assumed that letters were written in the newspaper anonymously could have been written by mary todd. Indeed, we know that she probably write about politics. She held grudges. I emphasize that. There was a scene in the movie lincoln that she was seen in the balcony counting the votes in a small notebook. Do, way that screenwriters that was transposed from mrs. Lincoln sitting in the balcony counting the vote when her husband was being considered for senate. She found that he lost that vote and she held it against his wife because she believed that his wife had influence. His wife is something new the politics of it. I found that very interesting to see that even in a senate vote count. In illinois, this is something that she was very invested in. When she was a young girl she was on the bench next to the judge. She would hear trials and she was really quite engaged. I think that was seen as very sharp, threatening. When he was elected president , his circle was quite concerned because she exercised such influence. Is a politician in norman judge wanted to be on the inner circle but she remembered how he voted. A few years before. She found lots of interesting things to write back to her husband when she was in new york. Before going to washington. She did give a lot of political advice that we do not have too many of those letters. They were perhaps burned. We also know that robert, her son, was a very private person. We know he solicited letters. Many lettersthe that he solicited have not yet turned up. There is all of this rumor about the great filled with ashes. I do think it is safe to say that he was a victorian gentleman. Who believes in privacy. He was most angry when his mother when public. She did clearly often write compromising letters. She wrote letters and told people to burn them. Quite clearly, she was someone who was well aware that she was outside the circle of politics. I find it interesting whenever i go and find first lady books and first lady issues. Saturday night live. The cartoonists. She freely appears there. Austin is someone who has exceeded her feminine here and i think that is something that she quite clearly did. And was perceived of at the time. Why was robert not buried with the rest of his family in springfield . Prof. Clinton why was he not . Why was he not in tuned with the rest of the family in springfield . Is the only member of the children out there. Prof. Clinton because mary harlan lincoln, his wife called very much resented the way in which the lincolns exerted influence and she wanted him buried in arlington and saw to it that he would be the one lincoln not buried there. So, this was something also, jack, the son who died tragically is also buried there. I believe. We do have the two marys in a way people who Mary Todd Lincoln sorry not use that phrase. Mary todd, its mary lincoln after shes married. Theres not a single time that she ever use the todd name and his signature or even in should not use it in a monogram. Todd became a really important addition to her name in the early 20th century when the todd family again to emphasize Dolly Todd Madison and Mary Todd Lincoln. Mary lincoln was someone i think, the weekend very much appreciate had a very distinctive persona. She said that she picked out senator harlans mary for her when senator harlans mary was married to her husband and began to exert some influence over boundaries with her motherinlaw, she very much resented that. They really got to the point where i would argue that that was one of the reasons why she was placed in a private asylum, not a public house, but a private house. Robert was caught between a difficult situation with his wife and his mother. Her breakdown occurred 10 years after the assassination and her breakdown occurring at a time when he was illequipped to grieved ravitch mother in his home with his life and children. It was unavoidable to not be touched by her reaction because we are in dallas after all and president kennedy was shot here. In the head. The widow had to accompany him back. Prof. Clinton absolutely. Theyre both from blueblood families. Prof. Clinton i would say there are many parallels. I think i kennedy was assailed in the press was an interesting parallel. There are many interesting parallels. When i was writing this book i was very struck i some of the pillaging of not the pillaging of the ransacking of the press that went on to dig up dirt on the first lady, hillary clinton. Im really struck by interesting parallels. In my book and try and give, as i said, a remedial view of mrs. Lincoln in light of what i felt was a century of his ear. However, there was some things i hope that i found and one of them was of course the treatment at the time which was an president. No other first lady that underwent the kind of scrutiny that she did in the white house. I think the other parallel is both president s were at pivotal stages and civil rights of element. Prof. Clinton that could be also true. I think people forget how hated lincoln was in 1864. Running for reelection. Not just the south, but even in new york city and the republican party. I would find letters were people would regularly referred to him as ape lincoln and use epithets. I think that was something i was quite struck. The disrespect. Also, i was once visiting the town of lennix, massachusetts, where i did a biography of another difficult woman, sandy campbell. She lived in that town. A beautiful, wedding portrait of a japanese bride and a very aristocratic new york has been. I look them up and they were good friends and might have even been eleanor and Franklin Roosevelt attended the wedding. I was thinking, what would have been like if Franklin Roosevelt had married a japanese bride . [applause] prof. Clinton and he had been in the white house with the first lady. On that infamous december seventh day. I think we need to do parallels and imagine that mrs. Lincoln was feared as a southern belle. Married to a republican president. That, so many members of her family were serving in the confederacy. In the rebellion. All of her letters, incoming, were red. All of the correspondence that left the white house was red. Otherwise, she was viewed as suspect within her own home. She was intensely loyal to my husband, he was probably more judicious in allowing her sister into the white house. Senators came in and started raising a ruckus i interrogating her sister and she only stay for a short time because it was viewed as so disruptive. To have the wife of a confederate war hero. Visiting his white house relative. His closest sister. We did have this problem that the mary lincoln character had similar problems and i think the there isich she quite a bit of evidence to suggest that if everyone is always asking me if she was crazy, i think now historians in the turnofthecentury are dealing very sensitively with the fact that Abraham Lincoln clearly suffered from melancholy. At a minimum. Several times during his life was confronted with crippling depression. He was inwhen springfield, his friends worried about him. They went to his home and took away his razors. They visited him, doctors were a great comfort to them. He often try to get a post in south america to escape. Not often, he went tried to stick it out. We know that he was someone who felt himself mercurial. He had been abandoned. His mother died. His sister died. He clung to marry quite seriously. Saw her as someone who truly believed in him. And him i think the anchor that he needed to rise. He could rise and heather because she always told him he was the best. And Stephen Douglas is no giant at all. She was quite partisan and her views. I think theres some people down in front. I have an ancestor who was in the medical community in washington dc. Hewas in medical school might have been one of the physicians that came and treated mary lincoln and prof. Clinton im sure he was. Everyone wants their family lore. I have not found any proof of that, but i was wondering if you would comment on what the medical community did for her at the time you go prof. Clinton to comfort her . What did they treat her for . Prof. Clinton theres a lot of debate over what kind of medication she was on. I found when i was working on her grief and her medical issues , there are no records. That one can explore them. I was most struck by the fact that all oliver sacks was writing a series of articles in the New York Times at that time and itaking medication seemed to me that he was describing some of the symptoms that mrs. Lincoln had been accused of. As evidence of her insanity. At her insanity trial. She thought she had an indian inside of her head pushing needles out. As i read that i thought, who has not had a migraine . Way invery interesting which people are trying to express themselves. I came to the conclusion that maybe some of the problems were that she took medication and perhaps also in ghosts and alcohol. In theture of alcohol specific drugs can actually lead to the kind of hallucinations that did indeed make her at certain points. Also of course she became fashion had anxiety attacks, she had hysteria, i am perfectly willing to concede that these were episodes, but, we recently recovered through the intrepid scholarship of a scholar named Jason Emerson some letters that she wrote from inside the asylum. But, i find it so interesting onause he published his book of her letters, called the menace of mary lincoln. He read the letters one way and i read them a different way. Disagreee can agree to on these kinds of issues. Some people suggest that she was plagued by mental illness. In the atticas sometimes and in the seller other times. Again, i say, really . You have any adolescent women in your home . I just feel as if some of the medical analysis of text is exaggerated. Just as im sure my critics think that i am always looking on a very positive light to try and give a contrasting view. But i say that i write and i create within the context that im given. That is, again, what i would expend people. I was running a mary lincoln. They would say whos that. I would say merry talking to. And they would say oh and the next question would be what she crazy. I would try to write in the context of whether or not she was or was not what was the context or medical issue . She often wrote melodramatically saying im looking out at the water and thinking of taking a walk and never returning. There is an issue that her son allegedly thought she might commit suicide which was why she was committed in 1875. I think she was a candidate for suicide it would have happened much earlier. We dont actually know much about suicide, it is something that i took up as a subject. Fter i worked on mrs. Lincoln im now working on a project on insanity. Suicide, and union soldiers. During the american civil war. There is so little secondary literature to look to to trying to diagnosis. I think well keep diagnosing mary lincoln and finding new illnesses. There was a Wonderful Program put on by the state of illinois. The Bar Association in chicago. They permissibly can on trial. At one point to a psychiatrist was passionately saying he knew exactly what mrs. Lincoln problem was and she had been herively overspending husbands budget. A judge said, excuse me, i am in court every day. If you are overspending your budget, the city of chicago would need to the many more asylums. Words, there is a doublespeak going on. We watch it in president ial candidates and issues. And i think we see it in the campaign now. [indiscernible] clinton it is such a thrill for a biographer to meet with someone more obsessed the end you are. She really went to understand the end in habit mrs. Lincoln. To really try to get a feeling for her. I was completely mesmerized by what i thought she showed four dimensions of mrs. Lincoln that i had not imagined. Disturbances, especially in the early scenes of the movie which were really powerful and quite wonderful. Thought the costumes were fantastic. I worked with the costume isigner and tell a story that found one of the dresses at the Chicago Historical society that was the mrs. Lincoln day dress. It was amazing how they made the cloth, made the dress. Sally fields put it on, it did not look right on camera. They remade it. Cutting roome floor, because that is what happens in films. But sally field did such a magnificent job inhabiting that particular role and i was very grateful to be invited, in a small way, to have any influence. Because all the books written about lincoln are out there being read by a hungry audience here and elsewhere, but the power of a film portrait is quite important and i was really pleased that she did such a wonderful job. Not that i did not like the mary that was the empire slayer [laughter] professor clinton anything getting people reading about campaigns against slavery is really powerful. Mrs. Lincoln was interested and thatted in politics in film and i think that showed and it was one of the few portraits that show what i suggested in my book was central, thats a lot of her unstable behavior near the end of the fact that her husband sent her firstborn into uniform with the person she referred to as [ that richer, that butcher grant. Robert lincoln had money. I am not sure if he did when mrs. Lincoln left the white house. Aid atnot come to her all . Prof. Clinton robert had no money, he was a law student. He was waiting to inherit from his father. Later, of course, through his connections. He was assistant secretary of state or war of war. Been withually garfield, physically, at Union Station when garfield was assassinated. He was later on his way to buffalo with mckinley. So there are rumors about robert lincoln. His mother was that he was a dutiful victorian son who found his mothers behavior she would not leave the white house for weeks. They went to chicago where she was clearly in grief in morning. Disproportionate. She was desperate about money. He had to live with her during a time when she was most erratic and quite imbalanced. My good friend said she suffered financial bulimia. She would spend and then she would sorrow. The old clothing scandal was because elizabeth had come to chicago to visit her. And elizabeth had been such a great confidant and friend, but she happened to be in chicago and she saw and auction, a charity auction, for the children of civil war veterans. The orphans. At this auction was a dresser she had made for marina davis. And this really struck are at a point because also mrs. Lincoln vowed she would never wear anything but black again. So she was traveling with several dozen trunks of her white house goods, which was completely legal at the time. She took away her private goods. At that time, people gave the president carriages, clocks. This was part of the general not bribery, but part of the protocol that went on during this time. She had trunks of clothing she would never wear again. And there she was with her two sons and they presented to her the idea that these could be sold anonymously and they would make money for her because she was waiting for the estate to settle. Old clothing scandal was so awful in the headlines. Robert was particularly furious with her for going to new york, for trying to sell or close for trying to sell her clothing. For the display on broadway. Here is the first ladys exposed. The it was a horror for him. She never ended up making any money on the sale and she never did anything but alienated him even more and alienated the affections of the government at that time, because there was a campaign headed by charles sumner, a fan of hers, to get her a pension. She eventually did get a pension, she was the first president ial widow to get a pension. I think he financially was not in a position to help his mother , he helped her as much as he could at the time. And he could not give her what she needed at the time. Drugs i thought at the time she was selling her clothing and jewelry she was destitute. Maybe i thought at one time when she was selling her clothing and jewelry she was destitute. It she have a friend who stood by her . Prof. Clinton i think her friendship with elizabeth is poignant because elizabeth was the premier dressmaker in washington at the time. An africanamerican woman who bought her own freedom and worked her way up. Elizabeth was someone who was her confidant. To say friend is a complicated issue, because they had an employee or relationship. But she went with her to chicago and she was very much her champion. She published her own story in order to set the record straight on mary lincoln, because most of the staff in the white house, the africanamerican staff, thought of married lincoln in a supportive way. Thought of mary lincoln in a supportive way. She challenged the protocol by taking an africanamerican woman into the front door in through the front door. She embraced the woman in front of the white house, which caused a scandal. She was someone who let elisabeth influencer, but when the book came out, and when robert went especially ballistic over this issue of mrs. Lincolns life being exposed to her dressmaker, she disavowed her. They never met again, spoke again. Iey died alienated and that, think, was a very sad thing. Her own older sister, elizabeth, who had been a substitute mother for her was probably her closest confidant. She returned to that home of her sister in springfield. The same home where she was married to mr. Lincoln and she died upstairs from the parlor. In a very, i think, sad way. Was finally reconciled with that sister, but no, i do not think she had one of the best friends and champions we wouldve hoped she would be served by. [indiscernible] i would like to know what role if any she played in mr. Lincolns most renowned proclamation. Was aclinton there parade of lincoln scholars who wanted to know the exact influence she did or did not have over the emancipation proclamation. Could find no information that would lead to my belief that she played a champion of the emancipation. But i would say her visiting visiting contraband camps, her relationship with mrs. Elizabeth kegley, shows she was very strongly in favor of a proantislavery policy on the part of the administration and she championed her husband on that will stop she had two grandmothers who had freed all of their slaves, that was something she spoke about. All of this evidence is postwar. Her legacy afterwards. However, she was the one who douglas. Ne to she gave artifacts to elizabeth who gave them to wilberforce later. Much of the memorabilia that when out at that time when out to africanamericans, because mrs. Lincoln, in 1865, began a very deliberate campaign of linking her husbands legacy to that of africanamerican freedom. Ani cannot really give answer to the emancipation proclamation question because i did not find any after digging, but i can say i do believe she did much to elevate her husbands reputation as the em ancipator, for good or ill. [applause] Abigail Fillmore was the first first lady to work outside the home, teaching at a private school. She lobbied congress for fonds to create the First White House library. Maybe eisenhowers hairstyle and favorite shade of pink was sold eager to to women replicate her style. Jacqueline kennedy started the White House Historical association. And nancy reagan saw her name mistakenly on the list of communist sympathizers and lobbied Ronald Reagan for help. She later began became his wife. Women,es of 45 iconic the book makes a great gift for the holidays, giving readers a look into the lives of every first lady in American History. Stories of fascinating women and how their legacies resonate today. Share the stories of american first ladies. Available as a hardcover or ebook from your favorite bookstore or online bookseller. Be sure to order your copy today. With congress on holiday recess, the cspan Networks Feature a lineup of time time programming. Monday night at 9 00 eastern, our new series landmark cases. Of rweek is the 1973 case oe v. Wade. Wednesday night, emmanuel methodist african church, hosting a discussion on and violence. Thursday, christmas at the white house, and friday night at 8 00, former president clinton receives the bob dole leadership prize. Authorsiction books and monday. Onsday night at 8 00, books history. Wednesday night, authors will talk about their books on the supreme court. Thursday night, events in history. Friday night, several of our awardwinning programs from this year. And monday, programs on russian spies. Tuesday at 8 00, senator mitch mcconnell. And tuesday night, the 150th anniversary of the civil war. Wednesday, world war ii and its impact. On christmas, friday night at 8 00, we will travel to williamsburg of the 1870s