Transcripts For CSPAN3 The Civil War 20140621

War, is the war in 1864. Good morning. If you could all take a seat, please. I am pete carmichael, professor of history here at gettysburg college. I am also the director of the civil war institute. It is my pleasure this morning to introduce brooks simpson, the Asu Foundation professor of history at Arizona State university. He is a historian of 19th century america. The american presidency as well as the civil war and reconstruction. He has written extensively about ulysses s. Grant. He is the author of let us have peace . S grant and the politics of reconstruction, released in 1991. He is also the author of u. S. Grant triumph over adversity. That earned distinction as a New York Times notable book of the year. Just recently, he has published and edited a boeing by the library of america a volume by the library of america, voices of the civil war. Sharesy brooks Stephen Brooks shares. He has given talks focusing on the war and the east and we know he is a superb battlefield guide. Many of you will have the leisure on monday of following him around the wilderness. Those who have been with brooks before were at antietam, where he managed to get his coat tour cotour guide to ford antietam creek. Is he going to go bushwhacking in the wilderness this year . Take some players. We do not want to lose them. Brooks is going to speak to us. Contingencies and circumstances, u. S. Grant and the problem of virginia in 1864. Brooks simpson. Well, good morning everyone. First thank the team at the civil war institute, especially allison and iron, as well as peter. I must admit that i feel naked up here without a scarf on. Know peters fashion attire will understand that reference. Out thatnt to point while peter recognizes that his advisor, jerry gallagher, made mistakes, my advisor, richard sewall, did no such thing. Intrigued byo peters presentation, which dwell ont seemed to the Sexual Practices and fantasies of confederate generals and their historians. [laughter] i thought i would tell a little story of my own in this regard. Not about me. That is a tmi moment. Youll have to join me on facebook for that one. Several years ago, my wife cheryl and i went to whitehaven, which is a plantation where ulysses s. Grants inlaws had lived, and later was owned by grant during his presidency. And we went in. Not tosked my wife reveal who i was. I had worked there before, what whenever you go to a place, it is better to try to see it, at least from my point of view, as if you are someone they do not know. It says that way you can see what kind of presentation they give to normal visitors to the area, as opposed to somebody where they say, you know this. Cheryl has made it through. It is 14 years and cheryl has made it through exactly five chapters of my grant biography. She says that once they begin firing at each other, she goes to bed. But she had read a certain description of that book. Grants memoirs, she talked about, when her fiance went to war in mexico, she had, as was the want of many women at the time, name dave that named a bedpost after him. The guide looks at my wife and things, women like to look at kitchens to see what modern 1860s. Is were in the he says, what room would you like to see . Without batting an eye, she says, i want to see the bedroom. Ive got to see that bedpost. [laughter] the rest of the trip was marked by that peculiar exchange. What i am here to talk about about the problem of of unionin the minds military strategists, and none more so than ulysses s. Grant. Virginia was more than just a state. Was more than just a state of mind, although it seems to take up space rentfree in the minds of many union civil and military leaders. The majoria was obstacle facing Union Military strategy for two reasons. The state contended the confederate capital, richmond, virginia, which soon became an obsessive point of attack for union planters. And because that capital was defended by none other than robert e lee and his army of Northern Virginia, the largest fighting force the confederacy had to offer, led by its most brilliant commander. Richmond,ons, lee and transfixed Union Military planners. Therefore poses a problem, and poses a problem. Ilitarily for Union Planners it is, after all, the home field of lee and his army. The army of Northern Virginia won all the big ones in virginia. If they left virginia, they might encounter a little difficulty, but in their home ballpark, they acquitted themselves exceedingly well against numerically superior union forces. How do you change that . Pattern, inreak the the tennis parlance, of Holding Serve . In fact, that army was the primary target of an army with Serious Problems of its own. The army of the potomac, which today could be a fine reality show, at least in terms of its officer corps, its dysfunctionality i do not know who Kim Kardashian would play in this army, but someone would. One. Governor warren. It was a dysfunctional and defeatist officer corps at many points in the war in its command element. Its soldiers may not have felt the same way. But if the army of the potomac had ever fought the confederates as well as they fought each other, we would not be having a 1964 conference today. 1864 conference today. It seems that in virginia the army of the potomac always found a way to use to lose. Up until 1864, the biggest victory in virginia was a battle it had never fought, mine run. Had not assaulted lee in december of 1863 in an assault that would have been a catastrophe in the minds of general war in warren and some other people. Just like entering empty cities was the fantasy of George Mcclellan beforehand. Militarily, virginia poses a major problem. It also poses a major problem politically. It is the focus of 19thcentury media, because of the proximity of richmond and washington. People Pay Attention to what happens in virginia in a way they do not Pay Attention to what happens in tennessee, mississippi, or any other state west of the appalachian mountains. 1862,m lincoln notices in how can we win in the west and be so hurt by a week in the east . Why do people pay such attention to the east . To this day, we are still easterncentric. Story about Confederate Military generalship is a story in the east. No one is seriously going to make the argument that Braxton Bragg and joe johnson, earl van others, were the cream of the confederate leadership crop. If you go into town, you will not find a cup with a bragg picture on it. [laughter] so you rearview camera can back up like joe johnson into a parking space. But when we talk about confederate superior generalship, we are talking about the Eastern Theater. It isurse richmond said the east was everything. Richmond, as a target, not only had military value, but it had symbolic political value. It was a notion which, by the way, would have been betrayed by anyone studying military history, that if you captured the opponents capital, you want. We know that is not true. The American Revolution shows that. What still, if you capture richmond, the war will be over, no matter what else may have. Een logistically, a problem, given the resources provided by the Shenandoah Valley. Its ironworks, its manpower the confederacy augmented its military manpower when virginia seceded in 1861. Slaveo augmented its population. People forget the second largest export in the commonwealth of virginia in 1860 were enslaved human beings. You are adding 400,000 people who are enslaved to your workforce, your coworst, it involuntary workforce, but a valuable one if you are waging war. Topographically, virginia poses problems, although it also offers opportunities. You are familiar with the eastwest network of rivers, each providing an excellent point for confederate armies to sit behind and defend themselves and challenge union attackers, the most famous of which is still the rapid dam and Rappahannock River network. There are lots of defenses for a confederate network to adopt. Those rivers plus the chesapeake bay, and especially the james river that runs all the way up to richmond, if union forces can in a cooperative armynavy campaign, you can penetrate rather deeply into the commonwealth of virginia. And you can do so with fairly secure supply lines. You can cut railroads, which you really cannot cut a river. There is an opportunity for military planners. We know somebody who did take that opportunity and did understand that, George Mcclellan, and look how that turned out. There is a legacy from that, which is that afterward it would be very hard for the union civil high command in other words, Abraham Lincoln and edwin stanton, secretary of war to accept the notion of another waterborne operation against the richmond area, it says that would suggest that mcclellan had been right all along. That is something you do not want to risk admitting, especially in a year when you are running against George Mcclellan for president of the United States. He all know about the Shenandoah Valley. T runs towards washington and other interesting places, like gettysburg. Ofruns away into the middle nowhere, in terms of southwest virginia. Although i am sure someone will tell me Virginia Tech is not nowhere. Almaliki al mackey. The Shenandoah Valley allowed the confederates a superhighway to launch quick strikes, counter blows against invading yankees in the center part of the state. The confederacy a lot and poses a lot of challenges for union commanders. It is those challenges, those lessons, those solutions i want to talk about, as they involved in the mind of ulysses s. Grant between 1863 and 1864. Situation,sesses the tries out solutions, adjusts in response to circumstances, improvises, innovates, there is one thing interesting about grant. When things did not go well, grant had another idea. He did not simply pout and say, it did not work. My plan was perfect, it went tough luck. Remember the reason i bring it back to 1863 is, in august of that year, grant heard there had been a movement afoot to have him replace george meade as commander of the army of the potomac. Clear in himself made correspondence that he did not want that job. He knew the capabilities of his generals and men where they were. He also knew the devils that were there, like the recently ousted John Mclennan mcclernan. He would have to learn a new if you went east, fight and new with men he did not know, their strengths and weaknesses, and he knew the last time a westerner, john pope, had gone in, things had not gone well. Feathers were ruffled. And he knew the army of the potomac would resent the imposition of another outsider. Theis already aware rumors about the army of the potomac have already made their way west by the middle of the conflict. In january 1864, however, henry asked grant to outline a plan of campaign not only for the west in 1864 rent is now a western theater commander but he also asked grant, what is your thinking about the Eastern Theater . It turns to Cyrus Comstock and baldy smith, was of whom had experience in the Eastern Theater, to draw up a strategic plan. This is something you should understand if you want to understand what happens in 1864, what grant did do versus what grant wanted to do. And the whole plan was based upon the notion that the best way to deal with virginia was to avoid it as much as possible. That while the army of the potomac might still stay in North Central virginia, its major job would be to protect washington and keep lee in place. Operation would be an amphibious operation against the arth carolina coast, where column of approximately 60,000 men would land, penetrate into north carolina, where it was known that many white southerners were dissatisfied with the confederacy, where you could snip all the rail lines linking richmond to the rest of the confederate heartland, where you could enlist African Americans in support of the cause of the United States and freedom. This invasion plan was not only militarily interesting, but it also had political ramifications which would have shown just how revolutionary and address become, the issue of the hearts and minds of many white southerners, as well as the thirst for freedom of many black southerners. Thisould be neutralized in , unless he went to north lee state. Nless once lee is put in command of the army of Northern Virginia, he never visits another confederate state. You may forget that leap, before he had that position, did in fact spent some time in south carolina, georgia, the coastal defenses. But once he is put in command of the army of Northern Virginia, he is never going to go into another confederate state. He will go into maryland, into pennsylvania, that he is not living virginia. This plan would have forcibly to either come out and fight or in a disadvantageous position in north carolina. At least that was grants hope. The plan is rejected. Halleck makes it clear we are not going to do that. He made it clear, we do not have enough men. In fact, they had enough men in 1864 to execute this plan. This column was supposed to be about 60,000 men. You will see how many people grant had in the overland campaign, plus the army of the james. There was sufficient manpower. Why didnt halleck want to do this, the general in chief . How active i did a map and an empty file cabinet to fill. Points out that we are committed to the overland strategy as much as possible. I point out this plan and say, grant really did not want to fight in virginia. It made a see that lot of sense to fight robert e lee on his home turf. And far from this notion of a war of grinding attrition, this attempt,nts initial this is a war of maneuver, using the Union Advantage in naval power to seek to move the war out of virginia altogether as a theater of decision. Told by his superiors, you are not going to be able to do that will stop in fact, that plan never comes up again, even when grant is named general in chief of in march of 1864. Grant goes back to the drawing board. What is he going to do this time . Grant has learned about his future. He is going to wear three stars, be general in chief of the army of the United States. He is going to have to face the challenge of robert e lee, a cause that is what everybody wants, and he cannot go back west. He has got to go east. People expect him to take leon titans. Sh of he also realizes when he is in the east that people in the District Of Columbia medal far too often meddle far too often with the army of the potomac, and some people in the army are far too interested in what is going on in washington. The first time grant meets meade withrginia, he goes back me to washington, because meade had to testify before the joint defeat aton the great gettysburg, and how he was saved by dan sickles and dan butterfield, and a cast of midgets. [laughter] and that teaches grant something. Lessons is, you cannot go to washington without an escort. There is not been a be anymore of this backdoor backstabbing that has been so characteristic of a Civil Military culture that had been promoted in part by none other than the president of the United States, Abraham Lincoln. Grant had to meet the challenge expectations. You have to address the problem of virginia and on. And so grant devises a plan which you have heard elements of already. A plan which, in virginia, has , and operation in southwest virginia, and operation southward through the Shenandoah Valley, a column moving toward richmond and petersburg along the james river , and then the main Army Maneuver in North Central army of thee potomac, that would move to engage lee. This was, again, a plan that did not loop toward bloody battles of attrition. Hoped to shred the confederate logistical network, threaten richmond indirectly, and force lead to fight a battle not of his own choosing. That if this plan worked, the union would finally possess the Shenandoah Valley, thus depriving the confederacy of that superhighway of invasion. If the plan worked, either richmond or petersburg would fall, or the railroad south toward the rest of the confederacy would be severed, and lee would find himself either in central virginia, trying to do something against the army of the potomac, or rushing back to defend richmond with the army of the potomac on its heels. A sentenced this is called the army of the potomac on its heels. This is not something you will hear except in imagination, and is not something youll see until april of 1865. You are going to force lead to fight in a disadvantageous way by threatening his flanks, his rare, his logistical network. This is the way a shrunken version of i guess what you could call the comstocksmith plan. Instead of going south to carolina, you go south to the james river. You threaten lead posterior and flanks at the same time. There is only one problem with this plan. Grant still had to suffer a certain subordinate commanders of sufficient seniority to demand army commands, including sigel in the Shenandoah Valley, and Benjamin Butler with the army of the james. His plan would also be that grant or someone have to supervise the army of the potomac directly. What is really important to understand this is not seem to be a war of attrition, in terms of wearing people down through continuous combat. It is supposed to be something else. It is supposed to forcibly difficultinto a position, where no matter what he does it will not turn out well. Theorget that actually for first week or so, this plan worked in central virginia. You will hear all about what was going on in the wilderness of spotsylvania ad nauseam, ad infinitum. We do point out during that time that grant cannot crush lees army, despite efforts to seek opportunity, sometimes asking a little too much of that army in terms of its command capabilities. Trying to figure out how that army works. On the other hand, robert e lee , ind not do that either part because he did not listen to john b gordon, whose recollections are how they could have won the war if they had listened to me. We do not worry about armchair historians being Armchair Generals, so to speak, will we have some Armchair Generals writing their memoirs. I couldve won the war. The army of the potomac is not responsive enough to his impatient touch. Before the assault on the bloody angle, that rights back to washington and says, i will fight it out if it takes all summer. Grant would give up within the week. Why was he doing that . He thought he had lee pinned in place at that moment. If you had to fight that battle, you might as well fight that in spotsylvania. It sigel does his job and butler the army of, Northern Virginia will be swallowed up. Its supplies. M the confederate capital will fall. As we all know, that is not what happened. Newmarket, siegel encountered defeat, while Benjamin Butler decided to enjoy the beautiful vacation vistas at bermuda hundreds, rather than drawing more aggressively. In other words, grants plan breaks within the first two weeks. We talk about how no plan of combat survives initial contact with the enemy. This is one of those cases. If grant, it is not that his plan failed, what what does he do with his plan fails . Because we know too many generals, when the plan fails, they went back home. Cried themselves to sleep. And then prepare to write a memoir and say, it is not my fault, boss. Thetimes writing to president of the United States and the secretary of war, the fault is not with me. It is with somebody else in washington. Been onid something had his mind from the beginning as an option, which is continuing to move his way around lees brightpoint and unite with the army of the james at the james river, which is what he does. We all know the story of cold harbor, or think we do. We know it is not quite the physical disaster, but might be a psychological setback, in terms of actual damage done the army. While bloody and futile, it was not the same as certain other attacks that occurred during campaigns. More people die at the mule shoe and the bloody angle then die at cold harbor, but we view those actions significantly differently. Was there any payoff . There is no payoff. There is nothing that compensates for the losses. But, given that situation, great then does something which he talked about with people from the beginning of the campaign. Sudden, inspiration struck grant on june 4 or five and he said, i guess we will go to the army of the james, as if you could get on amazon and get pontoons to the river. Used facebook. Grant used amazon, because rap had a much better understanding of logistics. Rather, he thought about this from the beginning. You know the rest of the story, the failure at st. Petersburg, and this being a matter of time, robert e lee as a matter of time. If grant felt that, he would have sent jubal early to the Shenandoah Valley. He thought it was all over. One of the matters of time involved here is that it is a president ial election year. You are going to run out of time in november 1864. You have to produce the kinds of results that persuade the for thete to vote incumbent. Everyone forgets that. Abraham lincoln just being renominated was a freak. The last president to be renominated by his party at that 1840,as martin van buren, who lost amid rumors that he wore womens underclothing to help a bad back. You see, my knowledge of sex goes far beyond carmichaels knowledge of civil war strategy. [laughter] garments and fashions which of course the man with a scarf would understand. You see, carmichael, you Say Something about blogging, and you get in return hee also found out found that lee was a very impressive opponent. He also found out his army was turned toost he james wilson and said, what is wrong with this army . How do i fix this up . He said, you have an indian chief on your staff, eli parker, the seneca nation. Get him drunk. Give him a tomahawk and let him go to work. Interested in this notion of beheading and scalping, said, who should he target . Just a half dozen. That will do. Indiscriminate violence and killing. 1864, the end of june, grant is stuck around richmond and petersburg. He has achieved one goal, a goal that robert e lee does understand, which is that he is stuck. , his effort to become unstuck it is very daring. At the same time grant is crossing the james, lee has sent jubal early north. Lee is detaching a significant part of his army to try to cause mischief, the usual lee counterpunch that will catch someone off balance. Threaten washington. Had. Nside lincolns this had happened before. Why couldnt it happen again . July and august 1864, grant again, still the problem with virginia, now the problem of jubal early. What grant finally decides, i think, is that he cannot win here. He might try to win. The most famous instance of which was the battle of the crater. Probably cannot have that battle he wants to have, that has to make sure he cannot lose. He has to make sure that if he is not going to win, neither is robert e lee. This is taking lee out. And i think we forget this. Those of you who are sports fans know that in super bowl iii for others of you, this will be a history lesson. The new york jets had a wide receiver named maynard, who left as the afl alltime leading pass catcher. The greater bowl iii, triumph of broadway, joe namath and the upstart jets, over the heavily favored an oldfashioned baltimore colts, maine are never caught a pass. Maynard never caught a pass. After namath missed connecting with him early in the game, they used maynard as a decoy to free up other receivers. It is what grant is trying to do. He is going to be the decoy. He is going to take people out, neutralize them, while other sherman, william t might accomplish the task that grant had hoped somehow might be his own. In other words, grant makes sure in the summer of 1864 that iphigenia cannot be the theater of decision for him, it will not be the theater of decision for robert e lee either. To do this, he does have to wrestle with the issue of jubal early in the Shenandoah Valley. Underestimate how much damage early did. Grant was reinforcements, including the 19th core, to arrive at petersburg. When early moves north, not only does grant have to send the six core out to the outskirts of washington, he also has to mark ps, have then go north and join the sixth and the what isorps, forming called the army of the shenandoah. Early did a lot of damage simply andiverting resources making people Pay Attention to washington, which in an election year, seeing Confederate Forces looking at the Silver Spring metro station that is something you might want to worry about. There is an image problem here, an image is everything in a president ial election year. Throughs to labor reconstructing a command structure around the District Of Columbia. That is one of the odder stories of the war. Because he soon found out that Henry Halleck, whenever confederates are near, knew where his liquor cabinet was and got sufficiently drunk, which made hallecks dispatches make more sense. [laughter] there was talk of hold your breath or to mcclellan George Mcclellan being appointed to defend washington. Which would have been ironic on a number of levels. It was talk of george meade, who by this time was truly irritable and unhappy with his subordinate commanders. A you had Ambrose Burnside as supporting commander, you might understand why. And there was talk about de toferring need mea the washington area. After first trying out david hunter for a few days, hunter steps aside. Philip sheridan takes over. Tois sheridans mission track down and eliminate jubal early, to take away lees last lee has ofst chance upsetting the apple cart. With sheridan, although sheridan took his time to the point that grant had to visit him to say, when are you moving sheridan was ready to move. Grant took the train back and found out, by the time he got back by train, that sheridan had in fact moved. Only with sheridans victories in the Shenandoah Valley was grant able to take the Shenandoah Valley out of the war and rob robert e lee of his last chance to upset the apple cart in virginia. What grant had done that he could not win, that could make sure that lee could not win either. And the war would have to be decided elsewhere, where Union Military leadership was superior to its confederate counterpart. You see that in september and october of 1864. September 2, William T Sherman enters atlanta, and empty city, herschel he burned already. Sherman is a complete test, completist, and so he takes care of it later on. He makes surely cannot move. He is probing. Lines. Xtending his he is launching a limited offense are. Thats offensive. He tells commanders, do not attack entrenched positions, but open,y come out in the fire away. Sherman scores decisive victories winchester, fishers hill. He gets to ride his horse all the way back. Remember that tree stump, bloody angle . Stuffed horseans looking very still. I have no idea why civil war generals liked to stuff their horses. I have seen enough of them by now. , who just has his head on display. But sherman and sheridans victories, which capture positive popular imagination and assure lincolns reelection is made possible, by grant neutralizing lee. Lee is the only guy who could turn the tables for the confederacy. If you take lee out, you have sacrificed yourself. This is suggested to open other receiving what using maynard to open other receiving opportunities, you can let others do the stuff that you get attention for. In the end, if you get what you want to do this is what people forget about grants campaign in 1864. Grant is the general in chief. It is all his campaign. Virginia is just a part of it. He does not care whether it is georgia, ornia or even outside nashville, tennessee. He just cares that it is won. And that is where his generalship in 1864 shows a determination not grantchecked, which makes a model of American Military command. And so that is how ulysses s. Grant dealt with the problem of virginia in 1864. Thank you. [applause] now on to the nightclub portion. [laughter] i will end with frank sinatra, new york, new york. If any of you have questions, we have got a microphone. Cananybody but al mackie ask a question. Here is the challenge for the rest of you. Make it so that al cant ask a question. Runs of those microphones right now. Al is a man who loves the camera. All cowards. I have got it. And your name is, sir . Al mackie, Virginia Tech. [laughter] by the way, Virginia Tech was 1962, so thereil was not much in that part of virginia at the time. Three words a decade of dominance. Historianit about the s craft. If you could answer a question that has boggled my mind a little bit does grant actually order, specifically order, the assault at cold . Arbor that is so famous in his memoirs, forest porter said that grant said he regretted the assault more than any that he had ordered. Whereas when grant wrote about ,t, he talked about it basically, in the passive voice. He regretted that the assault was ordered. Meade, in his letters to his wife, said he had command all day. Did grant order that assault or was it more meades order . It was meade. Meade and grant have had a difficult time 10 days before in expressed meade frustration with not being able to operate his army, and grant pulled back from what was an increasingly micromanaged situation. One result he put Ambrose Burnside directly under meade. Before, they had a cumbersome arrangement where the ninth corps was directed by grant, and now it was placed under meade. The concept of the operation generally is grants. The buck stops there. He is, in the end, responsible. Onuing orders for what goes that is up to george meade. But remember, need issues meade issues orders to his subordinates, including the highly esteemed Winfield Scott hancock. The evidence shows that those three corps commanders, especially hancock, did not do inir job on june 3 ascertaining where the confederates were and how to move ahead. And you are right. Who else would brag about being in command of cold harbor but aboute who was frustrated not being commanded at all . Meade kept saying, push forward. Grant thought it was a useless effusion of blood without any result. I think that is what grant understood. It is one thing to shed blood to achieve something, but when blood is shed for no apparent purpose, that is something that moves a guy like grant. Jon leicester, chicago, illinois. Why do you think it took lincoln and the north so long to find a commander who was not so interested in politics in the . Ity, such as grant did it have anything to do with the popularity of political patronage in the army, that started back with Andrew Jackson . Why do you think it took so long . First of all, they were afraid that grant had political ambitions. Or was talked in 1860 that grant would be an ideal residential candidate in 1860 four. Grant tried to handle this jokingly and in a more serious way. He said, all i have ever wanted to be is mayor of my hometown. The reason is because they have not finished the sidewalk to my house yet, and i would like that done. Taste forady had the the gilded age in 1863. By 1865, there is a banner, general, the sidewalk is built. They give him another house somewhere else, but the people understood to keep their job they had to keep their general happy. Later on, grant writes letters making it clear he has no political ambitions, and he thinks being a politician is an awful job, a slavish life. He writes to frank blair, one of his generals who is now a congressman in washington, and says, i do not want to be president. Do not show this letter to anyone unless it be the president himself. It is not until lincoln ascertains that grant has no political ambition that he gets behind the Lieutenant General. Before that, it had been stalled in congress. It takes so long i believe all these generals are politically networked. William t sherman he hated politicians, right . In his foster father father law you want to talk about sex and family relationships, let us talk about the shermans for a while. Political father is a advisor. His brothers have been in congress. His other brother, john, is a senator from ohio. They are all pretty wellconnected. This idea that grant and sherman had no political connections grant had a political patron, washburn, of illinois. Why did it take so long . Grant did not want to be president at that time. That is going to change. Until vicksburg, grants record is pretty mixed. He wins here, suffers a setback here, stuck outside of vicksburg here. He wins at vicksburg. That is job security, vicksburg. He is not going to be fired. Youou are lincoln, would move him east or use him more advantageously in the west . Holds outuntil grant in the third store, star, a bill introduced to revive the rank of Lieutenant General by washburn do not say these guys are not politically connected. They all were. How do they use those political connections . And do they challenge lincoln or work with lincoln . You will never find correspondence characterizing lincoln in the words used by a George Mcclellan in the correspondence of ulysses s. Grant. How ae are talking about subordinate works with a superior, yes. John keating from potomac, maryland. At the very end of your presentation, you alluded to the business around nashville. And of course after that was the destruction of the army of the confederacy at that point, and the success of general thompson. Auld you talk about that for moment or two, and perhaps a little bit about the relationship between grant and thomas . Between ussionship grant and George Thomas was a strange one. There was no chemistry between the men. That problem was mutual. If you read the telegraphic correspondence between thomas, grant, and Henry Halleck fire to nashville, you find thomas does not want to tell grant what is going on. Grant is being very impatient, asking thomas, what are you doing . I expect her to attack. Thomas writes, i am going to attack december 5. Grant would write, what happened . We did not have enough forces. You better attack. I promise. No telegram. Grant, what is going on . I decided to delay the attack again. You could say that thomas being the man on the scene, given the opposition he is faces, is showing prudence. On the other hand, if someone is asking you why you are not getting something done because you are not keeping me up to date, you have a Communications Problem too. Anxiety,ok at grants doing these other things at the time he is addressing nashville trying to take wilmington and fort fisher, trying to cut the james canal, even with operations opposite lee at petersburg you kind of want to know from your subordinates, keep me informed of what is going on. Do not make me ask you. We all know this as parents. Dont make me ask you tell me. Thomas would not do it, but he could tell halleck. Read the other correspondence from the same time, grant is getting flack from lincoln and stanton. What is going on . Why isnt thomas moving . They compare thomas to mcclellan and rosecrans . Put yourself in someones place and take away the great advantage of hindsight. We think that is a ridiculous relationship and that grant is a fool because nashville is such a signal victory. Grant does not know that. In fact, thomas tells grant that ood poses aat h serious threat. If you heard that, wouldnt you think hood poses a serious threat . That is what the man on the ground tells you. You look at that network communication, and also get the fact that in the end many people in this room could have destroyed John Bell Hood at nashville, because John Bell Hood had done such a good job of destroying the army of tennessee himself. Irelationship becomes think you have to be fair to both men by saying they did not work well with each other. They did not communicate well with each other. They did not trust each other. I cannot single one man out over the other. Athink relationships are twoway street, and that relationship was a deadend, each side of the street. Your reference to grants comments about being mayor prompts me to ask you, was that an unusual stroke of humor for him, or was he someone with a real sense of humor in these years . X yes, although i am not going to have a young man version of u. S. Grant jokes. My favorite might be the one about sumner, in which grant was surprised sumner did not believe in the bible and grants reply was, because he did not write it. [laughter] was grant upset when he came out east . He was so familiar with the west and all his generals out there, and he could not be caught up to speed out east when he was transferred. Withe almost confused meade and his subordinate, and all the conflicting area surrounding that . He certainly was personally frustrated. Many of you know or will hear the tale over the next several days that during the opening of the overland campaign, the battle of the wilderness, grant is whittling. He is calm. He is smoking cigars. In fact, grant is working off nervous energy, and it is not about robert e lee. It is about the army of the potomac. He is taking out for a new taking out a new car for the first time and does not know how it operates and what it can do. Days, grantfirst has hacked the cotton gloves he had worn into threads. He has gone through one day smoking 24 cigars. And when you will ewell attacks on may 6, lots of accounts show that grant was frustrated. Importers account, which is back to your go command. See what you are going to do. Some of you think robert e lee is going to turn a double some will salt and land on our flanks and rear at the same time. I thought lee was describing chancellorsville at that point. But he is upset. He is angry. He is frustrated. He has to figure out ways to manage that, because that is not a good standard, to behave badly. This might be a similar question. Issue with thean natural landscape in virginia . Because he transferred from the west to the east. He was not familiar with it. Comstocksmithat plan he sends it to thomas, who had grown up as a virginian, and gets thomass feedback. He just does not know this place. Robert e lee knows it like the back of his hand, his men do. The army of the potomac do not know the terrain well. Their maps are poor. They go to places which do not exist. It is kind of hard to do certain things if there is no hotchkiss. Do know the maps are awful. It is not his yard. We have time for two more. I am struck with the of those union forces that are in theto launch attacks spring of 1864, you have some eds leading those prongs, except for sherman and grant and meade. Was there no other choice . Was grant stuck with those guys . Would it have been possible for a mcpherson or a sheridan to have gone into one of those spots . He was stuck with those guys not because they are politicians, because that had seniority, more than anything else. They could command. They could request and demand, in certain places, the man positions. Porter writes saying one of the objectives of the spring is that grant can fire people, but that have to show they are incompetent first. Specificop look his reference is nathaniel banks. Grant has to overcome lincolns interest in these people politically. In butlers case, it does not happen until the campaigns of 1864. It happens in early 1865. Lincoln is reelected. There are restraints upon and constraints upon what grant can do. It is a tribute to grant that instead of writing letters to other people expressing frustration about those constraints, he works within them. Skillings, bristol, rhode island. This might be a terribly naive question in a room filled with historians and authors, but is there anything that todays military leaders, involved in todays wars, can learn from the generalship of people like sherman and grant . Understand why you are fighting. Way, how you fight should serve the purpose of why you are fighting, more than anything else. I want to congratulate all of you. None of you have asked me a question about grant and drinking. I toast you as a result. Thank you very much. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2014] we have a 15 minute break. Please be sure to come back in time for mary kelman in time for the next address