documentaryn with a filmmaker to discuss the legacy and impact of the organization after 50 years. first, we will see some of the photographs. forschomburg center research and black culture and the stephen cash or gallery cohosted this event. it is about an hour and 20 minutes. we turn to tonight, byron hurt will lead is on tonight fantastic journey with bobby seale and stephen shames. award-winningan filmmaker, published writer, activist and lecturer. for more than 20 years, hurt has been using his craft, his voice and his writing to broaden and deepen how people think about gender violence, raise, visual media and justice. his documentaries include "i am man, black masculinity, hip hop , beyond beats and rhymes and soul food junkies." in october, 1966, as you all know, bobby seale and julie p noon established the original newton- huey p. original the black panther party in oakland, california. seale was the founding chairman from 1966-1974. he is an author, educator and an advocate for the legacy of the black panther party. at the shames a student university of california berkeley first encountered and photographed bobby seale in april of 1967 at an anti vietnam war rally. shames became the most trusted photographer to the party. forining by seale's side his campaign for mayor of oakland in 1973. stephen shames is the author of nine monographs, the latest being black panthers," co-authored with bobby seal. he creates photo essays for foundations advocacy organizations the media and museums. steve's images are in the permanent collections of the gallery, therait international center for photography, the university of thefornia at berkeley, museum of fine arts in houston, the philadelphia museum of art, the ford foundation and many other notable institutions. he has been profiled by people magazine for before i turn the conversation over to byron hurt, our moderator, stephen shames will take us through a few photographs from "power to the people: the world of the black panthers." weas we invite stephen shames to come out, i would ask that we silence our cell phones. no flash photography. and following the conversation there will be a q&a opportunity, and they will bring their mikes around. we ask that we use these mikes, because we are archiving this for archive purposes and documenting this for archive purposes and we will not hear your questions. also, let me recognize any black panthers in the room this evening. >> yeah! [applause] welcome stephen shames. [applause] mr. shames: thank you all for coming. as you know low know, the black panther party was a political party that ran candidates for office and had more than 50 community programs. what i am going to do briefly before we start is show you some pictures from the book that toby seale and i did commemorate the 50th anniversary of the black panther party. the first picture is really why was there a necessity for a black panther party? what we think of as the richest nation in the history of humankind, there was property, there was racism, there were a lot of issues. and the black panther party started to deal with those issues. one of the issues was police brutality. in the first issue of the black panther paper, which you are wasng here, denzel dowell shot in richmond. and that was really one of the first issues that the black panthers address. obviously, that has all been solved, as we know. that's -- exactly. the picture on the right is bobby seale selling red books. everis the first picture i took of any black panther. and that is when i met bobby seale. they were selling red books. bobby will tell you more about that. shortly after the panthers were founded, huey newton went on trial. became the major organizing effort in campaign for the panthers. on the left, that was when bobby seale was speaking in chicago during the democratic convention. there are some panthers in the park, which we renamed bobby hutton park. and there is bobby seale chairman speaking in the park. kathleen cleaver with some panthers in the park. and kathleen spoke a while ago here. and she was a leader of the panthers. the panthers were on the forefront of a lot of issues. one of them was women's rights another was gay rights. although women were not equal back then, in the panthers, women had more leadership roles than they did in any other organization that i know of, left or right wing organization, or even in the government. there were very few women in congress. there are few women judges. very few -- people who were not white in positions of government . power at that time angela davis is on the left. she was a panther briefly. the right isre on important to me because it just shows how the panthers resonated with the youth in the community. the cover of the book. it is one of my favorite pictures of the panthers. the cap's were very disciplined, very organized. the authorssharp -- were very disciplined. they commanded respect. they were very charismatic. this is eldridge cleaver. the crowd listening to eldridge cleaver. anyone who want to tell you the panthers were a kind of a marginal organization needs to look at the crowds that came out for them. the other thing that is interesting is i just put a picture,hat isn't my but the panthers as early as 1968 ran candidates for office. they weren't just out demonstrating, they were running people for office, and very shortly after this, they started the community programs. this is the panther office. after huey newton was not convicted of first-degree murder in his trial, two police officers who i believe for intoxicated shot of the office. and you can see the symbolism. they were shooting at huey. was the first panther, 17 years old, was the first panther who was shot by t he police. and this is a poster. that is not my picture but we put that poster in the book. on the right, you're seeing on the top, george murray, minister of education at san francisco state. and on the bottom is the university of california at berkeley, where i was a student. the panthers were instrumental in two of the first student strikes to establish black studies departments. at merritt me college which was actually the first black studies course that he started, that these were the first student strikes to establish departments and really the idea, again, back then, everything was about white people, mostly white males. the contributions that women and minorities and other people in america made to this great country were pretty much ignored in the universities. so, the panthers were part of that struggle to establish black studies, which are now at many universities and high school courses. people do not often remember that. panthers. survival programs. panthers had 50 or 60 different community programs, some of which, such as the breakfast program, were later run by lyndon johnson incorporated them into his war on poverty. but they were not doing it until the panthers did it. oone of the reasons they did it is because the panthers became incredibly popular. a gallup poll that came out gave them a 90% positive rating in the black community, mostly because of the programs. the government figured we had better get in there and do that, which actually, you know, in my opinion, they should have been doing all along. but they weren't. to me,er thing that, very important about this picture. i want you to reflect on this how often do you see a positive image of a black man in the me a ia, even today? when you turn on the news, or you look in the media. one of the things i learned when i was hang in with the panthers is this was common. interacting were with the community, with youth in a very positive way. one of the things i wanted to show in the book is to show that, the kind -- to counteract the image people had about the panthers is that they were a bunch of thugs just running around demonstrating, which is what the government wanted us to believe. e anyone to try and take away those food banks from those two women. militant, revolutionary women sitting there. that is what i loved about working with the panthers is they really energized the community. i do not know if you can read it clearly but this is a list of the panther programs that they were running. on the top right is a senior the panthers in dangerous neighborhoods would escort seniors when they went shopping, so they did not get robbed. back then, social security checks were actually mailed. they did not go directly into your bank account like they do now. so, seniors would often get robbed on the way to the bank. and the panthers would escort them, and obviously, with the panthers there, nobody around them. the clothing program, the free shoe program, free medical clinics. sickle cell testing. the panthers were among the pioneers to draw attention to sickle cell. that was really not on the agenda of the government. the panthers went out in the community. they did not make people come to them, to their clinics. they would go door to door. they would go out in the community. they started a really excellent school that received an award from the california state legislature. are some of the panther kids. i just love this picture. the newspaper, the panthers started a newspaper that was a communiqué but was also a way for them to engage in the community. panthers would get up at 4:00 or 5:00 in the morning. they would make breakfast for kids, and then they would go to the office. they would sell the newspaper. they would do things all day. then in the evening, they would have political education classes, and they had to read and really learn about things. the panther offices were often like a community center. people would come. on the left, that is emory douglas, the panther artist who -- [applause] exactly. emory iks an incredible artist which is now getting his due in museums. that is gloria abernathy. they were picketing mayfair. and here are some, in the forefront are three members of the lumpins, the panthers musical group. here they are picketing a black business, bill's liquors. liquors.ed bills' stores were not given favorable discounts. so when they were trying to, when they were trying to be in business, they were discriminated against, and the panthers helps them. and in return they asked that they donate to the program went bill's liquor refused to, they picketed him peacefully. brought that to the attention of the community. jamal joseph is on the right. is jamal here? jamal is a noted filmmaker, and professor at columbia university. speaking at a survival conference. these are some, the philadelphia panthers. and just, you know, out in the community. this is toledo. this is the office in new haven. when the fbi under president richard nixon started attacking panther offices and assassinating people in the middle of the night, the panthers fortify their offices. and this was during bobby's trial, may day, 1970, in new haven. and there was a rumor that the office was going to be raided. the crazy photographer stayed in the office all night with the panthers, but the police never came, luckily, or maybe i would not be here right now. new york, there's fred hampton on the left to was -- [applause] ok. >> fred! mr. shames: i got to wrap up. this is new york 21. some of the new york 21. again, new york 21. this is the new york panther office in that style in brooklyn. -- bed stye in brooklyn. why was the black panther party needed? you can see they were right there in the community. i took some pictures from the to honorpanthers the new york panther setter here tonight. you can clap for them. [applause] on the left is david hilliard who is the chief of staff, and that is you eahuey newton on the right. george jackson. [applause] george jackson funeral. and look at the turnout and george jackson's funeral. that's a safeway supermarket in the back. that was kind of shut down for the funeral. the manager called the police and said, could you clear the crowd out? the police said, your close down today. the black panther office in oakland. again, i love this picture because it just shows these are not dangerous people. they were integrated in the community. people are coming by and talking to them. huey p. newton. the picture, huey and bobby. i had the type of access to be able to take pictures that you did not normally see in the media. each other up.rack that is bobby when he was in jail, erica huggins on trial with him. that is big man. one of the six original panthers. i l ove that picture, of that kid. that symbolizes the whole 1960's, doesn't it? bobby campaigning for mayor. i was with him every day during the campaign. got 40% of the vote. i'm ending just by showing some pictures from a rally in washington for some of the people today. who have been shot to kind of bring things up-to-date. know,ears later , as we people are still having trouble breathing. black lives matter. know, here we are today. so, thank you very much. [applause] stephen.you, please welcome byron hurt and chairman bobby seale. [applause] you very much. mr. seale. [cheers and applause] all very, very much. this is great. we have not even gotten started yet. this is wonderful. the images on the screen that you talked about were great. and so, welcome. my name is byron hurt, and thank you very much for joining us this evening which is going to be a great evening. we know it is going to be a great exchange between two luminaries of the black panther party. so we are really happy that you came out. another shout out to all of the black panthers in the building. one more shout out to all of the black panthers. [applause] of course, to bobby seale. let's get this started because we do not have a whole lot of time. i want to get right into it. mr. seale, i want to ask you about your relationship with mr. shames. can you tell is the first time you remember meeting mr. shames, and talk about the encounter with had you hint -- with him, and the story about the red book. mr. seale: how did it happen? huey called up and said, how much money do i have, i $300, why? why?have $300, not was always broke, he do have any money in those early days until i got him a job. i worked for the student government in california at the time. huey says, i know how we can raise some money. have you been hearing about the red book. 1 million people holding a red book in china. mao zedong's book. the book, 20 cents a book and got 200 books. went up to the university of california. we left our guns at home. because we were there to sell books. most of the time, we do not carry guns all the time. my point is, we were up around university of california selling these red book, $1.00. i thought that was a pretty good profit, which we needed that -- bad, because we were a ragtag organization. i ain't got but 13 or 14 members at this period. we sold those 200 red books. went back to the bookstore, got got two more hundred more. -- 200 more. sold those in an hour also. went out and bought huey a shotgun that he wanted. pay the rent on the office. found out there is going to be an antiwar, anti-vietnam rally a t the football stadium in san francisco in two weeks. so, i took my next paycheck from the city government and read over and bought 2,500 books, red books. and we took, i guess i had about 16 of us selling red books. it was more than 25,000 people there. we sold all of those red books t hat day. a couple days later for the first time we opened up the book and read it. we had not even read this thing. [laughter] had not read this book. the black panther party did not start out on the basis of marxist leninism. people think it did. reason was a 10 point for them had said nothing about marxist leninism. the closes it got to get a cut of socialist program was what we call the community cooperative. 40 acres and two mules, etc. i knew no marxist leninism. "had digested books like -- wretched of the earth." the works of dr. herbert -- he documented 250 slave revolts from the year 1800-1857. what he constituted as a slave result involved -- revolt involved 10 or more slaves. he also went on to say in that work, that there was lots of thantance involving less 10 slaves of one kind or another on the part of black folks during slavery. that blew my mind, when i understand that. because the old notion that black were docile and sitting around. that is the propagation of removing history, resistance history away and saying -- i never forget an english class in high school. one of the teacher said, well, you know, i guess the slaves could've enjoyed themselves somewhat. because they would sit up andtimes on the stoop play the banjo. that kind of stuff. what i'm digesting in the early 1960's is different. i digested wb did voice's -- w.e.b. duboise reconstruction to find out there were 160,000 union men in the army. 38,000 people died. it showed me something. we are not docile, we are not backwards, etc. on every level took avenues or whatever, whether it was the underground railroad, etc. a lot of them were murdered for trying to escape from slavery, etc. but they take every avenue that they could to try to get out of slavery. this is very important to understand that, because what abraham lincoln did is he said, in these five states, the resist is of the confederate. i cannot get any more people from the north to come down here to be soldiers. so, emancipation proclamation. it read that our in the emancipation proclamation that is the key. but people said well, we have a chance. that abrahamones lincoln said that if it had not been for the black man, we would not have won this war. what i am saying is, wait a minute. the confederates got their butts kicked. they were kicked by the brothers. [applause] >> they haven't got over it yet. still. >> i want to talk about these images up on the screen. these images are very powerful. these are very carpal images. -- powerful images. it is a beautiful book that combines both text and images to tell a story. the history of the black panthers. what i am very curious about is you and how you got such deep access to the panthers and what i want to know is how you did you allow this man to have such deep access when we all know at this point that the black panthers were being deeply infiltrated and surveilled by the u.s. government? what enables you all to have trust in this man to have a history of your organization? >> he said that he wanted to take pictures of it. talking to him, wrapping to him, the guy was a progressive guy. he related to the practice. he was against the war in vietnam. were against the war in vietnam and being drafted in the war in vietnam. even before the black panther party, you have to understand, my organizing started in the process moment in 1964. really before that but in 1964, i quit my engineering job on the gemini missile program. most people don't know that i am high-tech. [laughter] >> i worked a gemini missile project. in thethat to work grassroots community. i quit because dr. martin luther king, who i went to hear speak, he was the first one. i said i'm going to go to this printer because i got tired of going to the regular preachers, too much hell and damnation. speak to hear dr. king about all of these companies hire.ould not higher -- i like to imitate dr. martin luther king. i was just one person going to hear this brother. he said here in the san company, they would not hire people of color. he said all across america, one company would not hire people of current -- color. we want to make wonder bread wonder where the money went. [applause] >> that was dr. martin luther king. he hit the floor applauding etc.. i was very inspired by martin luther king. i quit my engineering job just to work in the community for him. [laughter] king, sound just like dr. i will say that. a i may send a comedian, i am jazz drummer, i'm efficient and a hunter. hefather, when i was 12, bought me my first high-powered rifle, we hundred -- hunted bear, deer, everything. i was an expert shot when i was 12 years old. when he tried to teach me am sevenun, i am 12, i years older than hewitt. he had to be poor or five years old. i did not even know he existed. when you read that stuff and lies that people propagate, especially the lies that the counterintelligence program propagated. i don't know who these people were who wrote this crap. i have a lot of skills. i was raised a competent builder from 87. my father built our first home. i mean, just handing him lumber and watching this man drive nails, build our house, on saturday. he did it for years. he built our home. when i was 15, i'm an architect. my father was working with other contractors. i did a three-dimensional structuring. i did all the specs for the materials and so on. i was raised, i had skills. by the time i was through the skillrce, i aced every level they had. i was still a corporal. most guys would be staff sergeant or master sergeant by the time they had those skills. that was me and i was not trying to brag. this ison i talk like because ronald reagan, when i , he called me a muslim and a son. -- hoodlum and a thug. i was pissed. i don't know he was calling a solid. -- thug. it just me off. this is the 50th year of the black panther party. you have every right to brag. [applause] >> can we give him every right to brag? >i want to come back to the stereotyping of the black panthers but i do want to ask you. did you know at the time that these images you are capturing would become these iconic signature images of the black panther party? i started photographing when i was 20 years old. everything butw i actually did not know much of anything. i knew that the panthers were important. i was just learning photography. when i took that picture of my 14th or was maybe 15th roll of film. i had not shot that much. i was still learning. were importanty but i wasn't even thinking about iconic, art, this or that. i was really trying to make the revolution. that is what i was focusing on. i said hey, you're taking pictures, that is good, we need pictures for our newspaper. i said that i wanted you to train a couple of people. he trained lauren williams along with himself. it is like reading resources. youth jobs programs before the party started. program, intutorial 1964. that is two years before the party started. what i am trying to say -- stephen: the panthers made coalitions with also some groups. we were on the radio and one of the people asked if we were black nationalists. i said if they were a black nationalist organization, what am i doing here russian mark -- doing here? they made friends with many latino groups, white groups, the young patriots. bobby: many groups. {, right groups, groups that groups, groups that were progressives. stephen: that is the propaganda it was spread, that the black panthers were against white people. they had a positive program. they were not against anyone other than people who are trying to oppress them. it had nothing to do with color, it had to do with the fact that they were trying to mess with us. bobby: have you seen this? it is a beautiful book. it goes on sale tonight. stephen: everybody won't be allowed to leave unless they buy it. [laughter] bobby: it is a very beautiful book. it speaks to how framing our history is very rarely reported. has been a lot of activity around the black panthers. there has been a documentary, there have been a lot of tribute, beyonce play -- paid tribute to the black panthers. i am curious, were you watching the super bowl went the unsafe gavethe -- when beyonce the tribute? over the 50 years, how do you feel like the black panthers are framed now? historically? do you think they are framed accurately? what do you think there is still a lot of misinformation about who the f is where -- black panthers were? this particular book represents some accuracy. there are black panthers in this book. other blackveral panthers. i do a lot of commentary for this book. stephen: it is an oral history in addition to being a photography book. bobby: i have been trying to do a film. the keep interrupting. all i am telling you, they don't want me to tell the real story. they don't want the real story to be told. i went to a big problem with abc studios in 2015. read around that time, i came to find that they were trying to the bug my screenplay and have somebody else write the screenplay. i said that does not work. they said why? i said that those people were not in the black panther party. i know the black panther party backwards, forwards, sideways. i was the one who did the work, related to them, etc.. i said that i can do an accurate, correct story. have, it was richard would indict nixon, jonathan, others who led the major attack against my organization in 1969. the i researched and found watergate tapes. next then used to record all of his telephone calls and all of that. it in the voice of richard and mix in. -- richard nixon. to move on theve black panthers. voice of thehe president of the united states. he was giving directions to j edgar hoover to get rid of and move on these black panthers. that year, my black panther officers were attacked all over this country. year, beginning of that nixon was up on national television saying that by the end of the year, we will be rid of these black panthers. elected, he had to meet with j edgar hoover. in the first week or so of december was the first time that j edgar hoover was on national television, the black panthers are the threat to the security of america. the black panthers, the only reason they have guns is to come into what communities and shoot and kill white people. we were running up and down the streets and protesting with thousands of our radical friends. this was a great counterterrorist program. when he did that in december, i called a retreat because my organization from the time what luther king was killed to the day that nixon was elected, before martin luther king was chaptersere were no across the country. none, i am telling you. young black brothers and sisters all over this country flooded my organization. it jumped from 400 members to 5000 members and 49 chapters throughout america. i went to every last one of those chapters. i told them to grassroots organizing it. that we have to do this. i told them how to network with other politicians and other friends as much as possible because these people will attack us. the only position we can take is a defensive position. we don't have any resources for guerrilla warfare. just take a defensive position. i did my architecture and quick sketches and stuff. i talked to party members and said you have to fortify these officers. that is what has to happen. this is how we fortified across the country. it was the fortification of officers. of 1969 toginning the end of 1969, john mchugh said he would be getting rid of the black panther party. shootout when the fbi came to our office, corner of the blocks. degrees,s, 360 two-story buildings, on 41st and central in east los angeles. started up and shooting. they didn't come out saying that you are under arrest. they came in shooting. party members woke up with bullets flying. get down behind the fortifications and sandbags, etc. they had to stop for five minutes, 20 minutes, etc., so on. i'm in jail when all of this happened. the men came to the jail and his pajamas and his top coat. hesaid to call everybody, said to get some kind of surrender flag out. it did put a surrender flag out. 11:30 a.m. they shot at the officers for five or six minutes per. was down the block with a zoom lens on his camera. panthershat the black were trying to surrender since early this morning and the police are ignoring the surrender sign. that caused all the people we network with from sammy davis junior to whoever, the naacp, roy wilkins, most people did not know i had a coalition with roy wilkins. person thatey helped us to develop a network of lawyers all across the united states of america with the national lawyer skills. people don't know that i had a coalition with martin luther king. i got aid have it and month before he died. everybody they visited came out and uport the panthers and surrender. including the african-american police who had been arguing with the chicago police for obstruction racism in the department. this was a dynamic of what happened, contradiction raising. they killed dr. king, they thought they would cut off the head of this man and everything would die down. it didn't happen. young brothers and sisters flooded in. i had been scattered all across the country. i did not want them to knock us out. they put me on trial, they killed a bunch of others. we still got political prison. i have not been able to raise the three or four or $5 million in the last 10 or 12 years so i can put all of our political prisoners on the innocence proxy. they keep blocking me. contract in real 1992 with warner bros. pictures, i had a $550,000 contract with them at this time. we gotppened that day, johnson to be the director. we told him that he could not read the script because we had to write and develop the script. he agreed to that. my point was that i was on my way and there was this craft that happened. .ol took over they decided not to do it after they put out all of the option money. i picked up $100,000 in option money. i'm just saying that trying to get the story out and get the real story out, i am still working. the best thing i have now in terms of still working, i don't want people coming to me and telling me that we can do this and this, i have been through that already. then they turn around and let some black behind people write -- script leaning on you can on and on but get the idea of what it was like for me because i stuck to my principles. >> we appreciate you still working. [applause] >> we appreciate your powerful storytelling. one of the things i noticed about many of the images in the book, you see a lot of pictures of you speaking. we see a lot of pictures of you engaging with the community, we see a lot of pictures of you running for office. i am curious to know how you would define your leadership style and if you see your own and body in any particular leader or group of leaders. in oure a bobby seale community? bobby: they are everywhere out there. you have young people coming up. they need more good information. young black lives matter is a great movement. it is a necessary kind of movement. [applause] betweenu see parallels the black panther party and the black lives matter movement? parallels, not about it is about a younger generation waking up and realizing that vicious police brutality and occupation of our people and our communities in his -- these complex forms perpetuates a broad level of oppression. let me say something, congresswoman barbara lee, have you heard of her? black panther party. bobby rush, black panther party. those are my two shining examples. when we started the black in 1990 five, before i started the black panther party, the book came out. wait a minute, listen to me. it was a very important book. some of the young people i was around and would run into were talking about how we would get black power. i said that you would not get takelack power until you some of these community seats. man ceasehe white where -- seats were. i said i don't want to hear excuses. , youast two paragraphs have to see what it says. i said that is the white man's math, but it wasn't. one plus one equals two. formula, i know how to do it. it is my knowledge. that, the lastd paragraph says what a long train of abuses and patience pursues makes a design to reduce a people under absolute the spot is in. it is the right of the people to provide newange and guards with a future. what do we provide the new guards with? that you just a gun have to defend yourself. that is not the only form of guard. we get inrm is can and control? i played on community control a lot. so what are we talking about here? community control. that means we need those political seats. they want to make the laws. move,osa parks would not those are so racist mines and attitudes. they made that dumb law. all across america, 1000 and 10,000 had to because of laws that the races made. in terms of exportation. it has to be changed. we are not going to change it until we get the majority of the seats. out to patrolnt the police, i was trying to capture the imagination of the people and by capturing the wegination of the people went to patrol the police. when we capture the imagination? the cops said that you have no right to observe me. i pushed him to put that together. to research the laws and make sure that you can expand this up and etc.. we to make sure we do it right. he said that no california state has the right. reasonable distance away. i'm standing approximately 20 feet from you. i said go on ahead and tell it brother. , that police officer, he said is that gun loaded? he would say that you have no right. he said to step off -- you cannot touch my weapon. , man, what kind of negroes are these? he would say only one person talk. don't ever say anything to the police first. does the law says that it would scare the heck out of the students. you say something to the police first, they cannot charge you. so he we talked. he told the officer went to get off. he asked if the gun was loaded. he said he jack rouse off in the chamber. would bele play us, we bad. in myd to be disciplined army. you have to do it right. we knew the law. every law. that said he law pointed a loaded weapon at a person, even with no intention of shooting them, it was assault with a deadly weapon. you could go to prison for pointing a weapon with a live round in the chamber. we knew all this but we went there. interrupt you but was so much police files that is taking place today, there are so many young black men and women. with so many black men and women who are being gunned down and arrested. they are not even armed. did you think a strategy or tactics would work? bobby: the laws have changed. don't use the strategy. they have changed. i'm not telling you that. that these way people could shoot you down. they can get away with it. that is what that is about. you have open carry in texas but leave that alone. dido not need guns like we in the beginning. remember, there were only 50 black people elected to office and 19 tuesday five. all across america. governmentwly city and part-time government, and many political seats are there that you can be elected to in america? my demographic research told me this, there are 50,000 political in 1965, there were only 50 black people in power. tell me about it. the history, what was i doing? i was going to capture the imagination of the people. awas going to organize political elect oral machine. that is what i was going to do. i want to sue take over some of his political seats. i wanted to set an example. i was telling other people, down south, they have the board of rights act. yet to get all of those people elected. counties at the time of1965 that had a majority 50% or more black folks in them. that is what i would tell the young brothers. sheriff's duly elected. that means we can get a progressive brother. that way, when the ku klux klan up, they cans speak up. you have to do it this way. overdeveloped technological, social order. we have to understand that. ofh to understand the value politicians like barbara lee, there are only 90 and the house of representatives who are real votinges -- progressive politicians who we can get our stuff too. we have an election in two weeks. bobby: we have to go for what we can out of that. hillary clinton. henie sanders was right and got 90% of all the point that he wanted in her program. now wait a minute, the main thing we want along with all of , that if arograms structure that obama had been trying to build the last six years, it would have created 1.5 million jobs. ,ut the climate change factor led in the pipes and all this other stuff, we could have an infrastructure ecology climate change. just onebe more than point 5 million jobs. it would be 5 million jobs in the country that we could create. if we could take that majority of the people in the house of representatives, they will get the senate. they are going to get the senate. don't let us take over the house. you are talking about progressive programs. that is was going to happen. it can't happen, we need that. is see what they are doing they are trying to break you. they are trying to kill the middle class. now the middle class looked at that and then we have to get an edge on the political side of this. we need more of these young brothers and sisters. even the black lives matter wants etc. we to look from a progressive standpoint for seats. maximize political seats. that is where i want to do that. happened, on the time we got to the end of 1969, they attacked us. i was in the position and i was that to tell party members you're going to learn to identify your districts. whore going to find out these politicians are, you are going to find their paper trail. you are also going to run for political office. you're going to try to find real progressive black and people of color politicians. that is what we need. those are the only ways we can do it. that is the way it has to go. >> that is all very important. i want to add one little thing. i want to add one little thing. you have to look at the system. we voted for bernie. states system with the electoral college, there are only two choices. we can play around with third parties but it is not going to make it. i remember the damage that richard nixon did and it is that other guy, i don't even want to say his name. bethat other guy gets to president and hillary isn't president, don't think that black lives matter and the other progressive movements will not be decimated in the same way that nixon decimated the panthers and that is the important reason that we have to unite behind hillary this time because that is the choice. if she doesn't do what we do, we will protest. bobby: we will protest. i can't even say his name. you know why am talking about. we have to stop them from being in the white house because you -- , >> we only have a few minutes left in this conversation. we want to open it up for questions to be answered. we have the microphone here. we're going to ask people to raise their hands and the microphone will come to you. thank you bobby and stephen for being here. i think one of the problems we have to address in this country is that the hostess of is -- the whole system is designed to fail. big money is involved in politics. as i is big money continues to be involved in politics, we are going to have a choice between red and blue, democrats and republicans. after we come up with a strategy that allows us to get big ofiness, big money out politics. that way we can have actual leaders that can get us into this community and help us out. as long as we continue to have the money in politics, we will not get anywhere. we need to overturn citizens united. that requires that a president appoints progressive people to the supreme court. the choice that we have this time, one candidate is going to put kkk type people in the supreme court. the start is to get rid of citizens united and get rid of some public funding. there are a lot of other things that need to be done. that is the start of it. if that doesn't happen, we can't even start. bobby: the dark money that the koch brothers and the billionaire club. you have a few over here who are billionaires who will donate and give money to all kinds of progressive programs. gatean get some out of the -- gaetz people and so on. on the money over here left side. we need those resources here on the left side. progressive the programs that we want included in this infrastructure bell. including a supreme court nominee, and making a tuition free. including overhauling the health program, etc., so on. moving toward universal health care. we can go on and on. these are the things that have got to happen. big money is there. we have to block them. hillary did say one thing. these guys with the big money, they had their billions of dollars in offshore banking accounts whether you don't have to pay taxes. but these guys are doing, it is a you can go over and take jobs out of the town, you're going to have to come back here and for some jobs here or we're going to whateverup in terms of trade deals that have to go down. i am saying that it is a complex thing. we have to have that general direction and understand that it has to happen. we the masses, black lives matter, black panthers, etc. ,axine waters and barbara lee they left with us. we just don't have enough of them. >> next question. i would like to have a sister as a question if possible. hi, thank you so much. it is a pleasure. know how were you andable to overcome mobilize unsuccessfully for such a long time despite the initial resistance amongst our people and black people. how did you do it? i see no today with the whole colin kaepernick situation, he is taking a knee. peopleere a lot of black supporting him. we had at least that were black in the nfl who were highly against him that were retired and still playing. how do you all successfully make that happen with so much going on at that time? stephen: one of the things that the panthers did is that they had committed the problem -- community programs. that is one of the things that i hope black lives matter will start doing. because protest is great but it is not enough to know they movement. the panthers did that. bobby: the prerequisite that i created and started and told everybody at the party was that immediately after that, we need to set up a medical health care clinic with the free health care clinics. you need to have a sickle cell anemia testing program. understand something, when they attacked us, in 1969, all across the country, it was not about a few things that we have to defend ourselves. triple, quadruple, overkill weapon. it was the free breakfast for children program. listen to me brothers. program, inted that it spread like68 wildfire across the country. we need to go beyond the black panther party's to communicate and etc.. suddenly when j edgar hoover was announced and all of this kind of stuff, what we looking at? if you read a book black against empire, you will find the real memo that j edgar hoover sent out to all 43 district officers of the fbi threat the united states of america. it was that all fbi agents etc. must move in the ways to and stop and disown the breakfast for children program. this is the document i'm talking about. he wants them to make sure that black people support his breakfast program and he wanted to make sure that no white liberals supported this program. -- the polls in 1959 said what? community nowck supports the black panther party theuse they understand health clinic programs. of the: the brilliance program was that it highlighted the contradiction. children were going to school hungry. in this country where we we waste so much and we throw food away and we have so much money and children. read -- they were going to school hungry. that was the solution, to phoebe cates. bobby: let me show you the success of the program. 1966, a few more black people were elected. thathappened by 1969 was in california particularly, willie ground moved with miller and some others to get a hold of nine or 10 of those liberal guys and they wrote a bill. it was for free breakfast and for allch programs schools in the state of california. just to build to ronald reagan. they sent it back to the state and told him to send it through the senate. they turned around and overrode his $4 million deduction and put and they $5 million in did something similar. that is just one program. it gives you the example. that if you go for other types of programs and unite around the community, we always had voter registration going on. members, all of you, i commend you and i have always. i commend you and all of my speaking engagements. you begin some of the best grassroots community organizes and the world and you did this. you all do that. sister jones came up with the pre-pharmacy program. so on and so on and so on, that developed in 25 or 30 programs of one kind or another in the communities people relate to tangible, real stuff. instead of sitting undisturbed and saying that i will see to it that we do that. we put the real program up and demonstrated the problem. thank you very much. >> our time is quickly running out. we want to hit as many questions as cross -- as possible. we have a lot of young i look at thee, black lives movement and climate change organizing. with these left organizational successors of us and the black panther party, we are still here and we give good advice. movements andious programs and efforts. say, what is left, a lot of us died of natural causes. i'm 80 years old. but that is the thing with me. i do not want to be like this all the time. by the time i got my mind together, but started falling apart. you know that a long time ago, i quit drinking alcohol, i stop smoking, i did a lot of things. i was trying to raise money to live. i got one of my sons to do college in medical school. he is a doctor. we are here and i'm going to do my films and hopefully people will help me and support this. i'm not going to have people running over the project. i will do the real program. people can understand that history. this was human involvement history. young brothers and sisters and people and a lot of radical friends. all of our chicano latino brothers, we had coalition. we had coalition's, we crossed all racial and ethnic lines. we judge the content of the character, not the color of skin. that is very important. that is very important. i'm going to say again. we are not even living in the 60's. we live in an overdeveloped, fast-paced, technological, social order. it is controlled largely. as we know, it has been advocated and pointed out. controlledwealth is by a few billionaires. we have to change that dynamic. it has to go the other way around. we have to understand where we are, what level we are, what we can do and we have to be involved politically on a consistent basis. the legacy of the panthers is number one. you can stand up and you can organize but intelligently and in a disciplined way. obama, that is a specific legacy of the panthers. the fact that sickle cell anemia areecognized and people treating it. women's rights, gay rights, black studies courses and ethnic studies courses all over the country. even obamacare. the ideas of free medical clinic. these things get set in school now. that is legacy. we need to be taking it further. how thealked about attacks won't work anymore. what lessons can we take from your work so that all the people to fulfill the goals that you will try to achieve? one of the things that i always try to do was make sure that might ideas, please, -- mytandings, -- might understandings, all correlated with reality. my mother and her off work twin sisters. they look the same but they were two different personalities. i ought was a diehard christian. 10, 12, 11, i was 's stuffother people about science. i was telling them all about our trip all around the sun. in 365 days. then the earth and all the planets are moving in the galaxy. they are moving at 20 miles per second. my aunt heard that and she said boyd, she grabbed might year, she said you are going straight sciencewith that messing with your head. this woman thought that the earth was flat. she didn't know any better that six months later we were all over there on the beach. she came all the way. she was there with her boyfriend. she came in and got me and said come here bobby. she grabbed me by the on. she started pointing at the ocean. she said look at their the ocean. i said i see the ocean. said flat flat flat flat flat as far as the eye can see. i was like galileo to her. she says go ahead and believe what you want to believe. it helps you to organize better, and how to set analyze, it helps you to look for the real facts. you have these politicians telling all of this stuff. trump saying all of this stuff. this know the facts and know the understanding of it. get your jobs. if you can make $10 million per year, you are fine. humanyour wagon to the relation struggle in one way or another. >> this will be our last question. you would like to welcome bobby seale, my name is david white. i'm a family member of the black panther local party organized in new york city. there was in july of 1966. i was an original black panther. i am veryt to say happy to meet you after all these years. unbeknownst to you, there was a another black panther party. i congratulate you and all of the other brothers who came behind us and to keep on keeping on. >> i think we have all been blessed and touched by this conversation today. have we not been blessed and touched? it was an honor for me. it was an honor for me to have a front row seat to this. the one you to go out and we want you to buy a copy of the book. stephen: if you want to get out of here, i told you. and want to confirm stephen mr. seale, william b signing the book? -- will you be signing people up for us? >> yes. so if you purchase it today, they will be signing the book. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> on the morning of december, -- december 7, 1941. this is the 75th anniversary of the surprise attack. 10, 8:00ay, december a.m. eastern, we will show first person accounts from veterans at pearl harbor. at the world war ii memorial in washington and we will take your calls. that is saturday, december 10, beginning at 8:00 a.m., eastern. only on c-span3. >> monday night on the communicators, >> i hope that any copyright that will come, will come at a central repository where people have access to it. we will be searched on not only an item by item basis but on a scale basis. we run 2.5 million songs through and we will get more and more as we move toward an on-demand service. >> steep and they on the issues congress and the music industry. including copyright laws, ticket price relation and the competition between humans. he is interviewed by alex meyers, technology reporter for politico. >> they do buy tickets but what they do is they keep other fans out of the market. what we're finding is that some fans really want to go see a concert and they can match the buttons on the computer all day long but they can't beat a box. are not able to do it in their first run at their lifted -- listed price. they tested along to promoters. the communicators on c-span2. announcer: with donald trump elected, melania trump becomes the nations second foreign-born first lady since luis adams. learn more about the influence of america's presidential spouses from the book "first lady's." the book is a look at the personal lives influence of every presidential spouse in american history, a companion to the well-regarded biography tv series and features interviews with 54 of the nations leading first lady's historians, biographies of first ladies and archival photos from each of their lives. published by public affairs and available wherever you buy books at now available in paperback. announcer: coming up next on "the presidency." \ chief historiil

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