Commemoration and reflection. Our speaker today is gordon kray. Gordon and i go way back to our days when they were on campus. He was from massachusetts and i was from lexington. Both of us had spent our lives in virginia. He studied history at william and mary. We were sticking cigarettes and the mouths of sculptures. Gordon has gone on to be a prominent sculptor. For many of you, if you have been to st. Matthews cathedral, you will see his culture there. You will also see one of his sculptures in washington, d. C. Most prominently in colonial williamsburg. You will find it in front of the red building at the college of william and mary. It looked worse for wear by 1958. It was put on display in front of the library. This was dedicated in the fall of 1993. Introduced by people who have been walking on the street. Now he has taken his talents to sculpting james monroe. In watching gordon work and being aware of the intensity with which he understands the person he is sculpting, it occurred to me it would be a wise idea that we talk to someone who has physically and visually understood the character of james monroe. It is my privilege to introduce sculptor gordon kray. [applause] gordon kray thank you very much. It is just like old times here. I am going to be talking about portraying james monroe specifically this is a vehicle , of the new monroe monument at the college. But i will be referring to older , examples, a lot of the use,ence materials that i i learned there out of a book i used for the main point of going back for references. To begin, this is the base of the new monument. Here is a continuous narrative relief around the sculpture here. It is basically a twopart monument. We have the relief, and we have the statue of above. This monument is due to the generosity of the Owens Foundation and therefore site in getting monroe on the campus of his alma mater. With the support of our president , we recognized that it was an oversight not to have honored on campus a brilliant alumnus like james monroe where any other college would love to have him as an alumnus. For all of these years, all of the centuries, there was never a monument of him. Now we have corrected that. We are feeling a lot better about that. This is granite and bronze. This is the statue, the other part, it shows monroe striding forward with his hand on the globe. And the sword he has here. Anas based on a lot of old picture obviously of me working on the sculpture of the blessed mother at saint National Cathedral that richard referred to. This is marble and nine feet tall. I am going to be talking about a leader. How to arrive at a good depiction of a leader. This is a marble remnant of who was the Court Sculptor of alexander the great. This shows alexander the great as a leader and one of the precedents. We want that gravity to portray munro as the same deal. The same feel that we have here been alexander, what can you do . Instead of washington having a cane here we used the same , configuration with monroe, except he has a sword. Of course he was very proud of , his military service. During the revolution, and again he served in a marshal capacity as secretary of war during the war of 1812. We thought that would be fitting in conjunction with the Monroe Doctrine. This is the portrait that he liked the best. Im sure historians know that he and his family both loved this. This name derivative from the less done foror the city of charleston. He said and looked more like cam him then a Gilbert Stuart. I go back to the Gilbert Stuart because that is what people know more than any other. That will be our point of reference. Does the famous portrait commissioned for new york state. This is the famous portrait commissioned for new york state. This is the most perfect depiction of monroe in full figure. It shows him with his hand on the map of florida. Im sure everyone is very familiar with this. It shows a stately presence, shows a commanding presence. His sword is on the table next to his hand. A chair over here. This is sort of a take off of the portraits of George Washington that you have seen where he is standing with a curtain and the chair next to him as well. But here we have a green and , gold tablecloth, william and marys colors, how did they know . This was the basis that i came up with my standing figure here. You can see with the takeoff on washington here, they wanted a stately figure of him. What to do you do, how do you portray it . The Owens Foundation who commissioned this piece had certain expectations. They wanted a stately, gravitylike figure of monroe. I thought this was the best way, using this to depict him here. Because this was a sitespecific work, we know exactly where it is going, i can design this first. He is looking at the building that he knew and studied in. I originally had him looking the other way to the Sunken Garden for those of you that are familiar with it, but i thought that the Sunken Garden did not mean anything to him, but the wrenn building did because he studied therefore two years. You can see he has the globe, his hand is on the north American Continent indicating the Monroe Doctrine. His hand is on the sword. Distill a it is still a sheath sword but he can unsheath it at any time and that is the message we put forward. How do we portray a famous person . This is my bronze of Pope John Paul at st. Matthews cathedral. This is the first piece that i did in 19791980. I had the advantage of going through, if you remember, during his election, the press was wild over his election. The magazines and newspapers were filled with images of the pope i could go through hundreds of images and i could pick the pose i thought was more indicative of his personality. Why am i saying this . Because we dont know about monroe. We have to rely on drawings and photographs that we have. Arrived at this to express his personality and energy. This is a more conventional version i have done that one would think this is what one thinks of a bust. This can stand on its own. Indeed, if it was a commission from somebody, that is how the original would have been done. Instead of this, but i made this on my own and then sold it to st. Matthews cathedral to display starting with his visit in 1979. I was able to do that myself. I started off with photographs. A young man and then you go through others. You get the way he holds his head on his shoulders. The way he leans forward. There he is as a cardinal. You can see he is a cheery sort of man. And then again. There shows his aspect. And here. This is just a support, a temporary support. Now, that is how you portray it. Again, i have portrayed John Marshall, he was a friend and associate of monroe. They attended campbells academy together. They were both at valley forge together as well. This is more or less what we know of marshall through the wellknown portrait. This shows him as an older man. I chose to portray him as a younger man here during the time of marburg, madison, right at the beginning of the 1800s. This the one i chose. This is in front of the william and mary law school, the Oldest Law School in the country, 1779. Thomas jefferson was instrumental in fountain that law school, as we know. This shows them with the decision of marbury, madison, and holding the constitution and in the other hand. This is from the other angle. Again, you can see the face, a younger face that one usually sees. Based off of a portrait. During the trial of aaron burr, the portraitist was there doing profiles of all of the famous people. We have one on jefferson and other people as well. He did one of John Marshall. Was John Marshall presiding as judge on the trial . Yes . I thought so. This was largely based on that. This is an interesting piece. This is what i did for statuary hall for the city of washington. Theres another copy which i donated to the college of business at liam and mary in their new business school. It is in the threestory a trim. This is the one that is in a aetrium. This is the one that is in a government building in washington. This shows Pierre Lafond lenfant. He took John Trumbull up there, the painter. He has several of those paintings in the rotunda at the capital. He is pointing to the navy yard and looking toward georgetown. Map and his index finger is on his knee, he has his map and his index finger is pointing to where they are on capitol hill and where they are going to put the capital. He brought several other people up there. And so now, how do you portray him . Sorry this is not a good , photograph. There are a lot of bad drawings pierre, sogs of nobody knows what he really looks like. The only accurate profile was done by the daughter of the governor of new jersey. And it is a black filled in portraits. There is no detail in the portrait. We can see his nose forehead. , his father, where he studied as well, his father was a professor in paris. A colleague of his father had done a drawing directly on his face. What i did was i took these two images and made them up to the same size, drew parallel lines between the prominent features. He looked pretty much like his father, so i used that as the basis. How do you do the historical images . This is another. What i say is i just want to refer to this again, with the shoulders, it was a personal decision on my part. As i said, if it was a commission, perhaps i would not have done it like that, but the good thing is on monroe the expectations of the commissioning party and myself the same. Were more or less the same. We agreed he had to be shown as a person of gravity and energy. This now is the second part of this memorial. This is the narrative relief. I came up with this concept of a narrative relief because Everybody Knows about munro and onroe and Monroe Doctrine. We wanted to publicize and become more wellknown among the general population, those aspects of his life that we all know as associates of monroe. We start with over here on the , as a student. Then we go crosswise where he is president of the United States for two terms. This shows you the work in my studio on the clay. This is the student aspect. This is the wrenn building. This is the president on the dais. This is the white house, minus the front portico. The capital with the dome which was finished late in his second term. These are two buildings that were prominent for him. This then goes on the monuments. This is the cartouche. It has some relation to what i made in new york which i will , talk about. This is granite, green granite and golden bronze, the college , colors. How could i do otherwise . This is Mountain Green granite. And of course, the bronze has the patina to look like gold. Again, this is the first time the first scene here, the first panel. Monroe leaning up against the tree here. This guy is a little angry with the other students because they did not do his homework for him like he wanted. This guy up here is on a date. There are three guys here in a heated discussion. Summer, it does not show up of war. Sorry, it does not show up more. These two guys are playing in the yard, which is the 18th century equivalent to frisbee. You can go to any College Campus and you see kids playing frisbee, so there you go. Another view of it. How did i arrive at it . You all know the columns which is an ascending spiral of images portraying his campaigns. This is the embarkation with the supplies and such and going up here. We had them rotating around like we do here, eight images going around the base. How do you distinguish between the scenes in the panels . Basically you can use trees like , this. Or Something Like we have here. One group, second group. Backtoback. That is one way you divide the scenes. We use some of that the vegetative or the trees to distinguish one scene from another because we came across wanting to use this continuous narrative because we do not want to have the traditionally framed aspects one would see here, like on doors. This is from the doors of the capital in washington. This is the rogers door on the house side. What do these all show . They all show the divided panels like the doors, they are all reliefs, but they are separated by panel. There is not a complete progression, like a narrative. This is by a famous medieval sculptor who did the facade of the cathedral in italy. I show because of the divisions between one scene or another which are vegetative based, as well. We use some of that aspect as well. This is a panel from the Supreme Court door. These are two foot figures to show you the capital at that time in the background. Excuse me. This shows the studio, different views of the same thing while i have been working on it. This is a panel from doors. I show you that because it is a low relief like i used on the bronze drum. Again here, you see in the studio. This is the state capital at that time in richmond. These are generic aspects of what we have today. Arguing congressmen and senators, nothing different. Over here is monroe in his guise as governor. This shows the relief the narrative relief which is almost done. And you can see here is the , figure of monroe which im just about beginning at this time. This is no the bronze has been , taken up to the bronze foundry in baltimore. You can see the remnants of the plaster. They have taken the mold off of this, peeled the rubber off of this, this the ruminant that we have that is now at the museum at the college. These are the two halves of the bronze cylindrical relief. Each one divided up into three sections. 1, 2, 3. 1, 2, 3. These will be welded together. I had already ordered the granite base in order to get there on time. It had already been cut to size. Bronze shrinks. If you are dealing in something straight, it is easy to figure, we had circumferential shapes here. How much is it going to shrink . I had this amount of room to get into the granite and hope it would take. To get it into a perfect circle, these are one of the seams is welded. This is the cartouche. Two geni, the genius who overlooks a person. This genie here is overlooking the beginning of his life at the college. And you have this one from behind the cartouche looking at , the president. This is up here is a figure of athena with the owl to symbolize education over the door. Another view, this is the bronze that is placed, check one against the other. This shows you, welded together in a circle. This is the pneumatic jack. We had all the shrinkage and warping of the bronze. This had to be straightened out. This is a view of the inside. The bronze is around here. This is the pneumatic jack. And gary, my founder in baltimore made these two wooden , forms that we could rotate around to maintain an exact circular shape of the same distance. This is the tape measure. We always had to check this dimension and check that dimension to make sure they are the same. This is the installation in early april. This is down at the college. Subbase, theding, drum, myself, im delighted that it seems to fit perfectly here. You can see around that edge. It was a great relief to see that it fit. No pun intended. This is the setting of the largest piece, which is the base stone, it weighs several tons. It has a pin in the center. There is the hoist attachment. That will go on there. Setting the base drum on top of it. You can see this unpolished area here, the lid on which the relief fits. And above this, we had a , cylindrical piece of concrete that goes in there. There is no sense in wasting granite behind the relief where you would not see it. This now is in place. We have the capstone on, the narrative relief, the bottom drum, the molding, and the base. There was a twoweek gap between the installation of this base excuse me and bringing down the sculpture from baltimore. The college decided that they were going to hide it because they wanted to have the unveiling all at once. They paid a lot of money to devise this copper like box painted black on the outside, but heres a student. You cant do that with college students. You cant pretend to hide something from them. What is going to be the next mission . Get under it and find out what is under their. It shows you what the box is like. There is the base. This is prior to putting it on there. You can imagine have you seen that black box . So they ripped the box apart and they finally realized there was no sense doing it. They just took it up took it off. It was kind of funny. Here is the pews. This is the college. I will go around and show you there are different release. Athena, up here. This the battle of trenton. Up here is the figure of victory for this guy in the tree. To give you a forethought of what is going on in the battle. Heres a closer view of the battle. Here is the figure. The church tower and trenton. In trenton. Wer here is a gun. Taking munro monroe command. If you look closely, there is snow and sleet coming down as there was during the battle. I tried to make them look as evil as possible. The next panel shows his service to the state of virginia. As i mentioned before, a depiction of the state capital at that time. No stairs at the front, some side staircases. This shows, again, a symbolic meeting of the minds. Pun intended. Here is monroe overseeing this chaos here. This guy has had enough. He is leaving. Now, i wanted to mention the division of the scenes. I mentioned the trees before. Each tree dividing here, but on this side, this was during Christmas Day or the day after, winter bad weather, no leaves on , the trees. The next one, there are leaves on the trees in this one at the capital. By the way, his service of. , we have governor, congressman, senator. He was not only a congressman from virginia, but a couple terms as senator as well, and couple terms as governor as governor, too. This is to symbolize the various offices he held. This next shows his diplomatic there is a code of france of arms with liberty over the crown because this is the revolutionary government. The monroe is presenting his credentials. There is an American Ship in the harbor showing you that he is travel through a foreign nation. Down here is the ambassadors of england, france, and spain. The second figure is william short. He was considered the first professional diplomat and the United States. Also a graduate of the college and jefferson was a mentor of his, but he was also associated with monroe as well. So, this shows him there in the court. This one over here is as secretary of state. The formerving ambassador. Next in him is hezbollah wife elizabeth next to him is his beloved wife elizabeth. Lobby where hehe has his famous corncob capital. I think it was one of the few rooms that escape the fire by the british. So, this would be indicative of the early capital. It was a totally american room. Where this was the european room with the corinthian capitals here. Next one shows him during his role as secretary of war, which he served concurrently as secretary of state. Wasas related to before, he very valuable. And he was going all over washington on horseback, leading a troop of calvary with british. Sance on the during the frustration of the burning of the capital, where they got rid of armstrong, he took complete command. Basically, he british. Was virtual dictator of the United States during that time of the occupation of washington. People looked to him to provide guidance, and he assumed the banned as depicted on horseback. This fellow knows what he is doing. This guy is nothing to attention, and then he has been working over here. This guy is coming to back them up and we see to moving around here. At this time of the war, we had the senate wing in the house wing. And they are just starting to build the rotunda. You can see the unfinished brick work starting to build the rotunda of the capital. Smoke, whobe clouds, knows. Of an is something impending disaster. This was in august. The leaves are on the trees appear. Assuming the presidency, the inauguration march. Like right now. What date was his inauguration in march . The fourth . Yes. Early march. Maybe a hint of something early coming on the trees, but not much. House minuswhite the portico. And this is monroe. His people with him here. And this is the crowd down here. Now, i am sure you all know that monroe was the most popular president aside from washington. He looked a lot Like Washington. He was approximately the same height. His face almost looks like cam, and my opinion. I think that is part of the reason that people revered him. He also had a military reputation, just Like Washington did, too. Guys ofd assume that the Navy Blue Coat and the buff almost looks like military uniform, too. People loved him. They just loved it am. Him. He made one trip around the passive peak he made one trip around the chesapeake bay, one to the north, want to the south. , lakes, andreets streams named after him. People loved him. And they wanted to honor him. We go back now to the monument there. There they both are. Again, i mentioned washington. Everything i do, you see from below, ok . Is washington from below. And monroe from below as well. So, we want that same human gravity that he was able to show and here. Except he is less formal, turning his head. This shows you just some quick stuff at the studio. This is the 18 into model that was the concept model. This is the beginnings of the fullsize. The portraitere is of monroe, which i worked on the whole time i was working on the figure here. Saw things to correct, things to add. How did i decide on this . I decided on having him turn his head this way. Has shown old as he and most of his portrait paintings, but a little bit younger, perhaps around maybe before his first term as president in 1817. Maybe the first decade of the 1800s. This is the beginning. You can see here, here is the hand, his fingers. And these are the pipes for support. This is the model i had. This is where he is supposed to put his feet. I did not have exactly where it should be. There is a hand with a sword. In this shows you the beginning of the globe. Of his sword. Ckup , i was talking about from below. You see, this is the head. I have a short studio here. I spent a lot of time on the floor looking up at him to get the correct angle. Again, the blessed mother in marble, about nine feet and nine feet off the ground. It is 12 feet high, 11 feet wide. Over, sos her leaning the face could be more intimate, whereas we had a politician looking up, so they look more aloof. This is what i was talking about. And this is another one. I am on the floor taking a photograph with the bust. Isues you the beginnings when am starting to put on the clothes of the figure. And this is the globe, the legs of the globe. This shows you another one. This wire is to indicate the lines of the coat for me so i can show where the coat is going to go and determine how much of his legs are going to show. Again, this shows the positioning and the globe. , this is a shot of the relief before goes to the foundry, and here is the figure of monroe here. Here is the bust. Here again shows you the head that i am modeling. I will show you a little variation on that. I am starting to coat the globe there. Coat ofrence, this is a the exact period. We usually see coats from the front, not the back. These buttons is to be way up higher during the revolutionary period. But here, it gravitates down lower and is very tapered. Is now a finished photograph. Sorry about that it does not chill of very well. And you say, what is this whitehead . Becauseecided to do was he had such a complicated phase, a lot of subtleties in monroes face. I was amazed at how subtle it was. I did not want to go modeling the head again on the top of this thing eight feet in the air on the scaffold. Head cast the portrait that i have, and i am going to here until i have the exact detail i one and put it on the piece. See, but there is the globe, there is the sword. And this is basically a finished piece for it goes to get bronzed. What i do is i took this in a mirror. I found over the decades that you can find out a lot of mistakes on a piece if you reverse it. We dont see things sometimes when we see it in the actual positive of it, but if you reverse it, it gives you pause to think that we are always looking at ourselves in the mirror, seeing the reverse of ourselves. We dont see ourselves as other people see us. We see the opposite. So i always do this with the pieces just to check it. Here is the finished version again. Is there is a hornets nest, which are always busy. They are everywhere. Are. Asps this is in front of the wrenn building. And then we had the american president on the back. It all works kind of good, you know . Nice. That is the up version from the famous plasterer and the bust of washington. This shows you where i am patching the head onto the body. This is the seam of his coat. I was attempting to color the head of the same as his coat, but it did not work out. Official view the position on his shoulders. A lot of time was spent making that transition seamless so one would not see it. The next, starting to put more on the clothes. You can see the coat here. This shows you another rough version of that. See theis you can plasterer head of monroe precariously perched on top of the body. So at this stage, i have to say at this stage, i have to put it integrated with the clothing in the body because i have to get the head done first. So, here he is. It is all know the in. Filing on the plosser, adding on the clay, whatever. Plaster, on the adding on the clay, whatever. Closeup ofes you a how the seam has to flow seamlessly. No one would ever know it now. Ok. Of the whiteck house. I wanted to talk about the registration of the bronze to the stone. This is a five foot eagle. This whole surface here is curved. What i did was i took a mold on that curved surface. We took it up to the browns boundary bronze foundry. Week come back down we come back down what they you always have to register the stone. You cannot just make it. You have to do the attachment, too. Am determined with the drum sitting there. This is monroe, he is looking at his legs. Legs are over here. Ok . Then we will be welding them together. My nephew from california sent me this. This is a monument to a pigeon. And there are a bunch of war heroes hanging on. [laughter] for anybody who works on monuments, it is just beautiful, you know . Here is one from monroe there. There is a german soldier. There is a revolutionary soldier. [laughter] mr. Kray revenge. Sweet. [laughter] mr. Kray all right, so back to monroes legs here. The refractory material. This can be bronze casted. Beginnings of putting the statue together, his head. He is not captured by the british during the revolution, but he is being hung by the chain hoist, and they are welding and assembling him, minus his arms. Now he has his arms. He has his sword. The globe, and right now, he is just a basketball player because there is no stand here on the globe. And now they are welding it on here. There is his head. Now, i want to concentrate on the head for a while. This is the one version of the Gilbert Stuart. Stewart was quite an operator. Versions and a few sold them. This is what we think of the classic monroe. Looks like he has a round in broadhead. Andooks like he has a round broad head. This is what i tried to capture here. This is a little like this, but a younger version, a little more energetic. Again, the head looks broad. But then there is one portrait by Charles Wilson peele. You look at that and said, it has a thin head. How is that possible . Looks like he has a broad head. But apparently, that is the way he was. Indeed, that is what i am talking about. The subtleties and the convocations of his face. That is why you need to make a threedimensional model to see if it works out. That is the beginning stages. Now, profile. Portraits that we see or three quarters, meaning the head is turned partially to the side. But when you are doing a sculpture, you need the profile. There is a drawing. Of profile . Drawing i think it was vandelin. And we have the piece metal, of profile . Which is in scotts museum, that shows a profile that was done by morris, a german artist i believe. And then we have a waxed which wax,one then we have a which was done by an a time sculpture. He did the large eagle release and statuary hall. But he also did a portrait. I spent a lot of time trying to establish his profile, so we can go from there. This is the early stage. And then back to the threequarter again. Now, this is the portrait of washington. I mentioned earlier that i thought was my own personal opinion, that washington does bear a lot of visible and to the head of monroe. If you cover up with your fingers both of those sides, you can sort of look at it and see if a little bit. Wondered, why do they so prominently show monroes years all the time ears all the time . Every portrait of monroe, you see his ears all the time. Can we see the portrait of him as a young man wearing this style of hair. It almost does not look like monroe. My fear he is that they always knewhis Gilbert Stuart both heads very well to distinguish between them. Here you can see the usual treatment with a have the ears closed. He couldve had unusually, protruding ears. But they are always put but there always prominently displayed. But if you cover them, it could look like but if you cover them, it looks like George Washington. There is a little on the side. And it could little bit reasonable George Washington. View fitting the head on. Now this portrait is a wellknown portrait based on the vandelin fullsize portrait. I never really liked this in a way. , even ont see the hair a good photograph. We do not know the shape. We see the face. Looks like he could have a contemporary haircut. In may, but a contemporary person, but we do not see much personality in this. All important,w but the problem is, something which is a famous portrait, which is on the 10,000 bill, if i am right. You know, i think you can see, it is not a really flattering portrait of monroe. The washington based on the stewart on the one dollar bill is far superior to this. [indiscernible]h who has a 10,000 bill . They say the lower denomination, the higher the value. Again, this is a classic Gilbert Stuart, which i used as the main model for my work. Now this is now the head of the monroe, which is in place now. No rush in going to see it because it is not going anywhere. Monroe it says the monroe pride in civic leadership. The foundation has given 3000 to the student and they get a plaque saying they are on the list of monroe awardees. But they used the portrait. That is the purpose of doing this is to get his image out there. We were very pleased to see this. This is on the Charter Day Program for this past charter day, which is the anniversary of the charter of the college in 1993. It is always at the beginning of february, just last month. This shows the monument in place here. So the bases in four sections. The molding is a whole disk in itself, the lower drum, and in the capstone drum up here. The relief, and then the figure. Now, again, i mentioned the currency. We want monroe to be known. We want him to be on everybodys mind. , washat is what the relief and that is what the relief, the purpose. Theythe foundation wanted a plaque depicting all eight panels. This shows them going all the way through with the description and ends but the Monroe Doctrine that refers to the statue up above. This is set in the breakup of the monument. It is a small size because it was originally going to go on a block of stone off to the side on the grass. But the Design Committee at the college said, no, they do not want blocks of stone proliferating all over campus. So, it is not embedded in the brick in front of it. This shows you the dedication. President and members of the s family was spotlight on monroe, and they have lemonade waiting for us over here. You cannot have wine anymore outside. This is the in front. Monroe is over here on the back. I did this in 1993. This shows you again the monroe and im her firm to this in this shows you again, the monroe, and it was done in conjunction he was a student who was a maker of monuments also. A contemporary of him was joseph plkin who did the william itt that was in new york. So they tore down the statue of george in new york and a revered that. Sort ofliam pitt destroy data of remnants and charleston, and they were taking about having me recreate it. Pitthad me do the voice of they had me do the william pitt for charleston. Theugh research, i restored documents that he is holding here. And he has his crown. Of course, he was a lord, a baron. Version, 18ll inches or so. They give it to the most prominent, not alumni supporters of the college. Two or three years ago, we gave it to lord boyce. He was the first lord of the admiral, in submarines, but he floor before coming here, and he was also an admiral. It was a nice connection there. But to get back to it, this i try to mimic that over here with a cartoon. This is the american president. Sorry. This is the american president here. And this is the british lord, ok . So we go from the british front after thegh the wrenn revolution, and we had the american president s in the back. This is from charter day here. Green and gold, the colors. Students will decorate. Box becausepen the they have to decorate stuff. If they differ in such a fashion that they do not do any harm to it, that is good. The historic director sydney and he now one time with 25 ses that they put marshall through. They had seen patricks day, christmas, halloween. They were all dressed up. Students love to decorate the pieces good it is good that they do it. It in great she them into the enactment of the campus. Developect it, they appreciation for it and take photographs. Now this one from homecoming october. I have a classics professor at berkeley. He october. Says, it is kind of mild. In berkeley, we have far more serious things. Anyway, it shows you the School Colors again with monroe here. Ingratiated into the campus life. Right. It is kind ofall that is it. [applause] mr. Kray any questions . Yes. What you working on now . Mr. Kray i am working on a sound, a large fountain design. Yes. How do you make it so that it does not topple over . Mr. Kray there are large bolts in the bottom of the bronx. There were a lot of photographs that i wanted to include, but we cannot include everything. And you drill bolts into the masonrycapstone and put into it and lower the bolt onto that, so it is not going anywhere. Course, the blessed mother, the marble is 3. 5 tons at st. Matthews cathedral that is sitting on the ledge. When we had that earthquake, what was that . 2011i think . Think . , i i have another question. There is a picture when you were he studio [indiscernible] sometimes, when one , it looksomething different, but everything is done in baby steps. You just dont do it all at once. [indiscernible] mr. Kray yes. Unless you do it first in the news, it is not going to look right. You cannot start with the clothes because the clothes have to lay on it. And what you probably saw i used directional lines for the drapery in the clothing. I just dont like us for instance, the yellow bow, i dont randomly make a fold. You can say it is platonic in a sense, but it is supposed to go with the whole movement and feeling of the body, so you achieve some degree of harmony when you make the piece. If not, why not just cast it in the gay cast of a coat and put it on. It is something beyond that, you know . It is a more perfect code, but something that is harmonious and pleasing to the view. Yeah . That afteret a sense working so long with monroe that you have a sense on how he was removed . Mr. Kray not really. Of course, like i said, with the pope and other people of contemporary nature, you can see how they move. , heinstance, John Marshall had a very lacks attitude about him lax attitude about them. Untiedone of issues because that is how he was. And they said he was always spend the wing he was always fidgeting with his tie. So i have his tie a little off to the side, little wrinkled, little dirty. That is how he was. That is how they said he was. Time. D all the it was that lax, lounging attitude is what they said. The historians can set me right on this. But i used that as an attitude to depict and also his robe, the way it was open. It was back a little bit on the shoulder. You know, you want those little and the chief justice dedicated colossal monument. And i pointed it out to him. Whether hes whether he understood what i was saying, i dont know. Yes. As an artist, im interested this Political Correctness on campuses. Mr. Kray it is like the liberal fascism, you know. They dont entertain views. You are supposed to go to a university and it is supposed to universal. You are supposed to have all views. It is very disheartening. They look through a Television Without seeing the larger picture they look to a larger vision without seeing the larger picture. Slavery was the nature of the times. Men could not change it, but that was the nature of the times. You have to look at them in the context of their times. Just a look at that, you also look at the positives. But you can also bring up the negative aspects to our contemporary lens that we look at. And i know that a lot of these the thes on campus, professors use it as a starting point. Hadthe wrenn building, they a structure with a Confederate Flag on it. Yeah, i can see where it bothers some people, but think about the andents can you sum now never know it was there. They dont know the historical aspect of the college around 1900. And it is important. They should know that. And now they will go in and they will not note it existed and they will not know it existed. [indiscernible] but it is not in place yet. [indiscernible] mr. Kray they also revoke the depiction of the Confederate Flag from the college they also removed the depiction of the Confederate Flag from the college. But this retro changing of history, i dont like that. You amend it, but you dont change it. But that is just my opinion. Yes. So, recently the statue of jefferson was damaged. Do you have any concerns about the statue . And how long will it be preserved . Well, the granite is polished, so if it is painted, it can be removed. The bronze is coded with a resin ax on top of it, but it has to be maintained every two years. Trying to get the college to do it, i usually end up doing it. [indiscernible] mr. Kray the law school monument is the original golden color, too. It was dedicated in 2000. It seems to be holding up pretty well. That is because you recoat it it this summer recoated it this summer. If you do that, that will protect the resin coat. That prevents the oxygen from reacting with the bronze, and that is what changes the color of the bronx. If you keep that step in check, you dont have to worry about it is coloring. After i am gone, who knows . Yes. Marble ple do [indiscernible] [laughter] they have the same type of tools. Now we have nomadic tools, which will go very fast, so they of course [indiscernible] mr. Kray it is possible. I dont know exactly the one in my mind which you are referring to, but i think i remember hearing something about it. I know he, himself and his family, loved it. That is why they chose to make that bust length painting, which they then donated. To the white house. It is now which a then donated to the white house. It shows him energetically, too. It leads me to believe that stewart was not that accurate, but i myself, consider the stewart kind of the bellwether of images. Unless, dan, you have an opinion on that . [indiscernible] they dont look like the same person. Mr. Kray if i know a lot and that is what i am saying. It, artists are looking at it confronted them with quite a problem with it. From sculpting his head, i can tell you, there is a lot of subtleties, tricky stuff. That is what i did not want to attempt to portray the head when i was eight feet in the air. Any other questions . How long that the entire process take . Mr. Kray lets see. I was taking care of an ailing mother at the time. It was about two years all tolled. We had the base down to the college and assembled in plenty of time, but those shots i showed you at the bronze foundry, we were working on saturday, too. I said i have to get it there three days before the dedication. The lord i brought in the back of a pickup truck one day before the dedication. And that was too much for me. I do not want to go through that again. So we got it in there in time. But the whole process takes that as well, lets see the bronze casting of the figure takes about 5, 6 months. Deck went very fast, but you do that before hand. And then you put them together. Any other questions . [applause] you are watching American History tv, 40 eight hours of programming on American History, every weekend on cspan3. Cspanus on twitter at history for information on our schedule and to keep up with the latest history news. Next, historian and author Elizabeth Cobbs talks about the women who served overseas as telephone operators in the u. S. Armour signal corps Army Signal Corps in world war i, and explores how their service and packet the Suffrage Movement how their service impacted the Suffrage Movement. The National Archives and washington d. C. Hosted this 50 minute event. After the United States entered world war i, women as well as men volunteered to serve their country. Although women were prohibited from joining the regular army or navy, they