pick up our program. and you can sign up and you can be on our list for all of the programs we have coming up in 2018. and we have programs both here and at central library two or three times a week and we'd love to have you come and we'd love to have you sign up. and we'd love to have you bring your friends. so please sign up. tonight we're so honored to have james shipley with us. mr. shipley enlisted at just 19 years old and would become a member of the 332nd fighter group in one of the original tuskegee airmen. [ applause ] i want to especially thank the heart of america chapter of the tuskegee airmen for making this program possible tonight. and thank you for all of your service all of these years. we really appreciate you as well. thank you. [ applause ] tonight with mr. shipley is author jeremy paul amick and they will be discussing a new biography about shipley and the book is available here tonight right outside and both gentlemen will be signing after the program right up here on stage. now, to introduce our guest someone you probably already know kansas city councilman quentin lucas. overseesed city's planning and economic development priorities and transportation as well as infrastructure and investment priorities. in his spare time quentin is a full-time faculty member at the university of kansas school of law. he is a wonderful and dedicated citizen, not to mention a strong supporter of the library. it's my pleasure to introduce councilman quentin lucas. [ applause ] >> thank you. well, good evening, everyone. it is always exciting to be back with my friends and our community here at the public library. it's even more exciting when we have the chance to see an american hero before our eyes. we are delighted to have mr. shipley. [ applause ] the joy of the public library is we share this opportunity not just among ourselves, with viewers in the region and on c-span and anyone interested in culture, our history, arts, reading, education and communities here in kansas city and far beyond. i'm particularly excited to have this event today because we're in the backdrop of a recent senate special election which you might have paid some attention to. we heard -- feel free to applaud if you'd like. [ applause ] i'm in a nonpartisan position, so i'm just giving you the facts as best i can. with the backdrop of an election that often descended into gender, racial politics, et cetera, we forget sometimes the greatness of our country. the greatness of our country that lives in its diversity. the greatness of our country that is embodied in the stories of people like james shipley. as you've already heard james shipley, who is now 94 years old, by the way before i go too far on that his wife mildred has kindly joined us today. let's kindly give her a round of applause. [ applause ] thank you, mildred, and thank you james, for being here. mr. shipley enlisted in the united states army air force at the age over19 as you already heard and as a member of the tuskegee airmen, the famed all-black world war ii unit. mr. shipley however tells us a different story than the ones you typically hear. you hear about pilots and officers, but what about the people who were so vital to making sure that those planes could fly, so vital to making sure that we could do the work that made for a successful war effort against the axis powers. he speaks often in stories about the unspoken heroes, those who kept things going, those who were from places like tipton, missouri, from small towns all throughout our country and who volunteered to support our military effort. and importantly he tells us about those people and what they faced when they went home. mr. shipley returned to new york after fighting after helping our country win in the war effort. and in 1945 was told white soldiers to the right and racial slur to the left. mr. shipley's story today is shared with us by author jeremy paul amick, he's a prolific profiler of our nation's heroes and also renowned author in his own right, a journalist who proves to us what journalists can do best having a special gift for story telling and a dedication to preserving our nation's history and the story of our nation's heroes. kansas city, missouri, is lucky to have them both with us today as we share the important story of how patriotic but ordinary men have built an exceptional country even though its full greatness wasn't always shown to them. ladies and gentlemen, i'm excited to introduce to you mr. james shipley and mr. jeremy amick. [ applause ] >> well, thank everyone for being here tonight. jim is so graciously allowed me to start out. we've done a few of these events in recent months and it helps if i'm able to help set up how the story came to be how james and i met a while back. i'd like to go back just several years ago in 1994 when i was graduating from russellville high school south of jefferson city, little town of about 807 people, smaller than tipton, missouri. and like james i chose an early path in the military, enlisted in the missouri national guard and went on to do 11 years both reserve and active duty and was discharged in 2004 for injuries i incurred in the service. during that timeframe that passed afterwards i gained full time employment with the u.s. department of labor as a federal investigator. and i also began writing stories for the jefferson city news tribune highlighting local veterans in the mid-missouri area and their service from all eras including some deceased veterans, past veterans, civil war, so on and so forth. and while i was doing this i had the pleasure of working with a gentleman in my full-time capacity at the department of labor who came up to me and said, hey, jeremy, i've been to church with this guy in tipton that's a tuskegee airmen. i was sold right there. i was excited because tuskegee airmen to me are like unicorns, mythical creatures. you've heard of them but you've never really seen or met one. i said tuskegee airmen in mid-missouri, you can't be serious? he goes, yeah, i'll get you his number, deacon shipley, we call him deacon shipley, he's very active in his church. okay. i gave jim a call and we went up to his church, it was a historically black church in the tipton area and there in the back of the church jim had all his tuskegee memorabilia set up. i was fan boy, in awe of this great hero. and he interviewed him and was able to tell his story for a newspaper article that appeared in the jefferson city news tribune and tipton times, california democrat. and then war history online. then my path kind of went away from jim as i continued to interview other vets. and during that interim period began writing books. i wrote a book jefferson city at war, coe county at war highlighting some local veterans. and i also wrote a book called "the lucky ones," it was a biography about a tank destroyer gunner in world war ii. so this is really the first biography i wrote, learn the experience and i spent a lot of hours, a lot of time with norbert gurling. two weeks after the book was released in 2016 norbert gurling passed away. that was a difficult experience for me because i had become very close to this world war ii vet, there was also a realization that our world war ii vets are getting up there in age and they're parting at a quick rate and that's not to say anything about jim because he's going to be here until he's 150 years old. he's already promised me that. anyhow, i thought, you know, i was looking to do my next book project and i was thinking jim's story always stayed in the back of my mind because it was a fascinating story. this facet of american history that's often not told out of respect of the enlisted member and mechanics, we've all seen the tuskegee airmen movies and it does highlight oftentimes the officers and the pilots. and of course myself having been a former staff sergeant, i'm biased toward the enlisted stories anyhow, right, jim? the enlisted guys do all the work. we know that. i'm probably going to get waylayed outside by some former officers, but that's okay. anyhow, i call jim up, i said, jim, i did this story on you a while back, i said would you be interested in letting me tell your story in a book format? and of course jim being humble guy, i guess so. nothing really important that i did, but if you want to come bend my ear and visit with me, i'll listen to you. so i'm sure he probably regretted at times ever making that agreement because we spent a lot of hours and a lot of weekdays and weekends and evenings together digging, picking his mind, digging through his story, digging through photos. i made him remember stuff i think he'd forgotten a long time ago. and some other things he tried to forget that we couldn't put in the book. if you guys want to know that, we can talk to you afterwards and let you know the really good stories. but we told the story, we wrote the book and it was very enjoyable experience to do that because having grown up in russellville, missouri, in the '80s and '90s, you know, i wasn't exposed to racial segregation. it wasn't something that i ever -- fortunately my generation didn't have to deal with but jim's family struggled in the tipton area and service and tuskegee airmen, i thought that was another fascinating facet of the story to share with younger generations never exposed to that. i want to thank him for taking that time and imparting that wisdom upon me. and with that i think it's a perfect time to segue to jim and let him tell some of his story. >> well, first of all, i want to thank jeremy for getting in contact with me. we have become very close friends. and, yes, he wrote a book and he's got some things in the book that i might not let him put in, but he got it in there anyway. >> well, all we're going to say is page 18 when you get a chance. there's a very incriminating photograph. >> okay. well, i tell you, i was always wanted to be a mechanic even when i was just a little kid. my dad taught school and from right across the schoolyard my grandfather he had a trucking business. and they would turn old truck and pull the engine out and when i got about 10 years old i would go over there and help tear that engine down and put it back together. my uncle taught me how to do that. and always love to hear engines run. if you work on them and put them back together, to hear them purr, it just was part of me. so after i graduated from high school i went to work in a local garage and he taught me he had a bad back and he taught me everything he knew and he had just finished coming from airplane mechanics school -- i mean, not airplane mechanics but automobile mechanics school. and he taught me everything. taught me how to overhaul engines and body work, and, well, we done everything on automobile that could be possibly done. >> your dad got you that job, didn't he? >> beg your pardon? >> your dad got you that job with the mechanic. >> yes, my father -- well, i wanted to go to kansas city and go to school but i thought that was too much money and i couldn't afford that. so my dad said i'll take him on, i'll put him to work. so he did. and i worked there about three years. and then when i got old enough to be drafted, i said, well, i'm going to kansas city i don't know if i'll pass the test or not. so what i'll do is i'll go up here and see if i can find me a job up in the defense plant. so i come up here nobody would hire me because i was 19 years old and they said, no, you're just the wrong age because about the time we train you'd be drafted and take you away from home. so, any way, i went back to tipton. and i was in the post office one day and a recruiting officer was in there. and i walked up to him and was talking to him and he said, well, they're looking for airplane mechanics or people to go to school starting an all-black outfit. and it's going to be called the tuskegee airmen. he said i'm almost sure that you can be drafted and you could take a job there get a job as an airplane mechanic. so i took him up on it. and i went to ft. levenworth, and there's where i took my basic training in tuskegee. we run into an old -- i call him old, he's in his 40s, but i call him old anyway. and this man, he was our officer. and he would take us out and go calisthenics and stuff like that. and us boys 19 years old we said we got it made, this old man here, we got it made. but i tell you when he was through with us he had it made because that old man could run and run and run and never quit running. and he could walk for 15 mile and never quit. and finally when he turned us loose, we were in shape. and one day we were walking down the road and in this road right in the center of this road was a mud puddle. well, you know, old guy 19 years old we went around that mud puddle thought we were doing something cool. that old man stopped us, chewed us out, backed us up and said i want that mud hole dried up. and that's what we did. when we went back through there, by the time we all went through that mud hole was dried up. but we had a lot of respect for him after that because he really gave us calisthenics and we take exercise every morning and he got us young kids in shape. >> jim, could we back up a bit, too? if i remember correctly, you said when you first got to tuskegee you were in tents, right? >> right. >> they were just putting the tuskegee airmen together and they didn't have all the barracks and things built. so in early days they were living in tents. >> yes. original 99 some of the pilots there learn how to fly already. and colonel bill davis was our commanding officer, and any way, we went to lincoln, nebraska, up in lincoln, nebraska, there's where we went to airplane mechanics school. and we went to haste, ask this guy here teachers, they were very careful with us and they took us through, they'd show us pliers, needle nose pliers and different types of tools to use and how to use the tool. because some of the guys there never had a wrench in their hand. they didn't know what they were talking about. but me i knew -- i'd already dealt with wrenches, so i wasn't too ask the guys any questions or anything. so when they grade us that test, my grade was very low. i said, well, shoot, i knew what i was here for and here these guys never seen a wrench before. and they got a grade to beat us. uh-huh. i don't know what's going on. you got to ask questions. so after that i learned to ask questions. i wasn't smart anymore. but any way, they taught us how to work on airplanes and do all types of work on engines, tune up engines, turn car braters down. then we went to hastings, nebraska, they taught us how to work in the field. there you made a tripod out of wood, three sticks and pull an engine out and stuff like that. but i tell you what, up there at hastings, nebraska, they had some of the biggest mosquitos you ever saw in your life. i often told the story that those mosquitos so large they would flip your dog tags over and look at them to see what type of blood you had. [ laughter ] but they were. i actually think they grew those mosquitos up there to tell you how to use a net. and cover up yourself in net to keep the mosquitos from bothering you. but they really taught us a lesson how to take that net and use that mosquito net. >> what about mutt and jeff. >> mutt and jeff, oh, yes, mutt and jeff. when i went to tuskegee, alabama, my buddy he was about 6'4", or 6'5", and he was great big tall guy. and, me, i was about 5'2", and they'd give us nickname of mutt and jeff. but ross and i were good buddies. we stayed in the same tent. his name is james d. ross and mine was shipley, and we got the mail at the same time, they'd call ross and then call shipley and we went to overseas and back to the states together. we stayed in the same tent and everything. but when we hit, well, i don't want to get ahead of myself, so any way old tuskegee airmen, the older guys they were -- had been taught how to fly and everything. but they said they were still in the states. they wouldn't ship them overseas. they said, well, they can't fly, they don't know how to fly, this and that. made us look bad. so one day airplane lit down on the field in tuskegee and she was the one said she wanted this colored pilot to take her up in an airplane. well, her bodyguards, said, no, no, you can't go up with him. that colored guy, said don't go up with him. said get an instructor to take you up. she said, no, i want him. so finally they consented to let her go up. i don't know whether they called the president or what, but she won out on that deal. she went up and when she came back down she said you can fly. the way she said that i don't know whether he scared her or whether he was good pilot, but any way she went back to washington, d.c. and shortly after that the tuskegee airmen 99th spot moved into africa. what they done mostly was, well, they done a lot of scraping and things like that, but they didn't get to shoot out enemy planes. said they're not doing their job, not right, go to call them in, just let them wash out. that's what they wanted us to do any way. but on the end, day they got their engines we went to school in lincoln, nebraska, they sent us overseas. and we were flying harbor patrol for a long time over there. and then after while they decided when they sent colonel bill davis back to washington, d.c., they decided to put us -- give him an opportunity. and he said i'll cover those bottoms like never been covered before. and when he went over there he said what i want you to do is give you some decent airplanes. we got those hand-me-down airplanes that weren't in good shape. we were constantly working on them to keep them in the air. but any way, they sent us a bunch of brand new p-51 airplanes. and we got those p-51 airplanes and we flew such close to those bomber pilots they said at first they didn't want us. so what they'll do is get scared and leave us up there and get a bunch of guys killed. but we flew such close to the bombers that any other airplanes couldn't get into them. and sometimes our bombers would shoot at us because we were flying too fast and too close coming in. they saw an airplane up there, they would go dive down and shoot you out of the air. i've got pictures at home where this young man said you saved my grandfather's life. he said we were in this bomber and we couldn't get our guns cocked up and we saw a plane up there and couldn't get it adjusted right to shoot this plane down. but said we saw a p-51 come down out of the sky, red tail, he said it was a red tail. first thing we knew this german plane blew up. he said you saved my grandfather's life. but we've had several incidents like that. they said couldn't shoot down those jet planes, but on our first day out we had one pilot, i forget his name at the time, but we had one pilot shot three of them down. three jets in the same day. and we went back and started calling for us. they called us red tails. come in and fly them into the bomber target. and the reason they called us red tails, other planes there had tails painted, they were striped and checkerboard and different colors of paint on their tail, but we didn't have any on there. said only paint we got is red. they said well give us that. they said, well, they may see you, said they see us anyway because they're shooting at us. so we decided to paint the tails red. said, well, if they see us, germans be after us and then our own pilot shooting us down. so we flew cover for the bombers and we done a good job of that. and on the last those bomber pilots started asking for us to escort them. we flew 200 missions. we flew all the way to berlin. that was a nonstop flight. before we got our planes altogether and straightened out and everything, we needed new gas tanks, larger gas tanks. that's an all day job of flying over there at that time. but we couldn't find them. they couldn't find them anywhere. so our engineers, guy the supply officer they heard tanks on a train but they were heading in the wrong direction. so he got his group together, he got a bunch of guys, couple of rifles i guess or something, and they went up there and stopped this train and told those guys they wanted the tanks. said, oh, no, i'm supposed to deliver these tanks to such and such place. you can't have them. the guy said we want those tanks. we got to have them. he said, okay. you take them. and he left the train. we got the tanks and brought them back and put them on. worked all night. next morning they took off. and that's where we got gold medal. i got one of the gold medals in my case over there. that we got for nonstop flight all the way take planes into berlin and back. >> hey, jim, as a crew chief, could you describe whenever your pilots would bring the p-51s back in what you would do as a crew chief to get that plane ready to go for the next mission? >> we would check the plane over and see whether there was any bullet holes in it or anything. stuff like that. and then we'd check it for tires. and we'd also inspect it. we had 100-hour inspections, 50-hour inspections and so on and so forth. we would take all the parts off the plane and look in the holes, make sure all the cables were tight, no frays on the ends or anything like that. we didn't want one of those cables busting, you know, and messing up the plane. and then you didn't want a pulley to have a nick in it because that would mess up guiding it. so that's what we had to do. >> what about harry stewart? i remember jim was telling me a story that he chastised one of his pilots. >> well, my pilot, he was come in one day and i noticed it was muddy underneath the air scoop. i checked that plane out, run my hand down in there and started scooping gravel out and mud out. and i said, boy, he's flying too low or something's going on here. so he come down and he said what's the matter. i said, well, you got mud in the scoop. what are you doing, flying too low? he said, no, not as i know of. i might have made a little -- got a little too close to the ground, i never hit the ground. but i did notice after i got to thinking and talking that he complained there one day about little vibration. so evidently, i don't know what happened, whether he picked up rock hit the propeller, i did change propeller on the plane because -- but i think that's what might have happened. he got too close to the ground and got some rocks stirred up in there. and i done that a couple times. so after i got -- i kind of got on him a little bit. he said, well, maybe i did get a little too close to the ground. he says he didn't do it. but those guys fly and they'd come down the street, this is no lie. they'd come down the street and turn the corner. right down main street. different streets. what they did we had cabins in the guns, whenever they push a gun and say i shot down that plane, when they got back and they pull the gun out and the camera out that would show just who shot the plane down, whether it was you or your buddy. so that's why they couldn't fool nobody, proof was right there. but any way, yes -- i'll tell this story on ross and i. we put up our tent when we landed in italy, it was raining and we put up our tent that night and it's raining and we put our tent up, pup tent and finally got. but the next morning we woke up and we were soaking wet. we put our tent up on kind of a slope. and in the army, you know, they say dig a trench around your tent so water won't get in. but me and ross we were going to get to b e bed early and rained down that hill and we got our tent, all our bed clothes and all our clothes were wet. so i don't know whether -- and then we, oh, over in italy there. there, you've heard of mt. vesuvius, it blew up and burnt hot ash coming out and they got on a lot of our cockpits. we had to change the canopies on them. they were burning. and they had spots on them. you didn't know if it was navy plane or just a spot, so the next day we today change. we got them in the next day. another bunch of canopies we had to put those on. things like that that cost us a lot of time. working overnight. >> jim, when i was in the service, any time you got new equipment, there was often times a lengthy school involved to learn that new piece of equipment. whenever you transition from p-39s, p-40s, p-51, whatever it was, you didn't get any formal school, did you? >> no. we had p-40s, p-30s, all the planes i worked on right here on this quilt. and this quilt was donated, give to me from a sewing club. i think the wife had a little dealings on that sewing club. >> quilts of valor. >> yeah. >> the quilts of valor group. they do a great job. >> yes. they give me that quilt. that's very beautiful quilt. >> what about your -- i think it is important to mention, too, you know, we talked about jim being on the forefront of the civil rights movement in his service with the tuskegee airmen. his family was very active in civil rights. you want to talk about this gentleman that had a kansas city tie? >> oh, yeah. that's my brother, david. he is pastor of second baptist church in kansas city, missouri for several years. dr. david shipley. >> he was, says here, selected as one of the hundred most influential preachers by the kansas city globe. received an image award by urban league of greater kansas city, missouri. and he has a story, mentioned it in the book, where he talks about in the navy during world war ii, stood up for civil rights and fantastic journ. >> he and another young man, you couldn't eat in the same mess hall. so he ate at mess hall, he and another young man, he got his foot mashed between two boats. he went into the navy. he got his foot in between two boats. and he was in the hospital for a couple of weeks. when he got out, he went to the mess hall and there was one guy who sat there by himself. davis was our commanding officer. he went to school in west point. he went to school in west point. and he would go there -- he went there for four years, and nobody would talk to him but the instructors. and at mealtime, he ate by himself. he stayed in the barracks by his self. but etches determined he was going to graduate from west point. but they thought they could break him. and he would give up and quit. but he didn't quit. and it made him more determined that he was going to graduate from west point, which he did. he was our commanding officer. [ applause ] and now they have built a brand-new building and at west point and they called it, colonel davis, named in his honor. they said it is three football fields wide or large. you get -- you can put this building in three football fields. and that's been finished up now. and the engineer, corps of engineers building this building. they said in the floors -- >> army corps of engineers? got to make the army distinction. >> okay. yeah. i'm trying to take too much credit for their efforts. and the floors they say they have pipes that run water through them. and they heat the floor with the water in the winter. and in the summer, they run cold water through there and it cools the floors in the winter. and this is going to be a brand-new building put up in honor of colonel davis. >> jim doesn't like to brag much but i will say he had three pilots when fs in italy, and he sent every one of them home. >> yeah. >> with his fantastic maintenance prowess. he still talks to harry stewart, his third pilot, quite a bit. >> still in michigan. we call and talk to each other on the phone i sent him one of my books here not too long ago. he's still living and getting along pretty good. >> what did you do after the war, jim, when you came back? >> well, when i come back, i went to work at paul miller's. the guy said he would take me back if i come back from the service and wanted a job. i worked for him for several years. then i went to work for cadillac and pontiac garage in bloomfield. and then i made the komar electric, a rural company that built lines. they put all the ozarcks and that light lines down there. anyway they had a bunch of fleeted trucks and i talked to the boss one day and i said, how about hiring me to be your mechanic? i said i'll take care of these trucks for you. he said oh, no, i don't know about that. so me and him, we talked for about a year. and he said how much are you going to have to have? i said within a dime of what the linemen are making. he said no, we can't afford to give you that kind of a job. we can't afford to do that. i said heck, i've got tool boxes full of tools and all they do is buy them hook and belt and you furnish all their tools. no. we can't do that. his wife spoke up one day and said jack, how can you tell that man ain't worth a dime? and that kind of hurt his feelings, i think. two or three weeks later he called me up and said you can go to work or two for us. i took all their vehicles. they had trucks, cars and bucket trucks and everything like that. only mechanic there. i stayed there for 29 years. and worked for those people there. [ applause ] >> jim, you met a pretty special gal after the service, too, if i recall. >> oh, yes. oh, yes. i met her -- >> you'll be in trouble here. >> he wants me to tell you all how i met my wife. >> she's pointing at me. she's giving me the finger. i'm in trouble. >> i'll have her to stand in a minute. but my dad taught school. and he was a school teacher there. so they had a track meet for all of the schools in the neighborhood well around about 35 mile or 40. and they all had a little track meet there and my dad said, son, i want you to take off work today and take me over to the track meet over at -- where was that at, hon? >> booneville, wasn't it? >> boocheville. anyway, i took her over there. okay. because when he asked you to do something yo something, you pretty well done t i saw this little girl standing there in her little hat on, little pleated skirt. and a white blouse and white stockings and tennis shoes. black and white shoes, weren't they, honey? and she kind of took my eye. so i looked one over and i asked her if she would like to go to restaurant to get something to eat. she said i guess i kochlt she went to order a hot dog, just eat the corner off the hot dog. anyway, we got to -- we talked that day and i think it was two or three weeks later i saw her again at a restaurant one day and got courage enough to go up and talk to her i was kind of shy around the girls because i was a little small. anyway i got courage enough to talk to her. one day i asked if i could come over to her house and visit. she said, yeah, it would be okay. mom said it would be all right. i said uh-huh, she's already asked them, hasn't she? [ laughter ] >> so, anyway, i went over there one afternoon. her mother was baking a cake. and she said oh, honey, if we had some ice cream, that would go good with the cake i said oh, i'll go get you some ice cream. so we got in the car and went to booneville, seven or eight, four or five mile. we went to booneville and got the ice cream and beauty fwraut ba -- brought it back. mom said thank you, thank you, thank you. she was tickled to death to get that ice cream. next time i went to visit her, we got to talking around maybe four, five months later, her dad's car broke down. and her brother is sitting out there in the car. i don't know if he was the one that was driving the car or not but anyway said the car broke down. he said i'm going to have to put a new engine in this car. i said well, i'll help you put it in. he said, well, i'll order the engine from sears & roebuck. i said i can get it from chevrolet garage at a discount. he said would you? i said sure. so i bought an engine and, of course, i let him know that he's going to have to pay for t of course, he knew that anyway. but anyway, i said, well, your engine's come n i'll put it in on sunday. on sunday i'll come down and put your engine n i usually don't work on sunday, which i still don't but i'll come down and put your engine in for you. oh, you will? yeah i had that engine running. that engine pulled her out, put her back in, running sunday afternoon. well i got in good with dad then. [ laughter ] so that's the way i met my wife. i want her to stand. we've been married 68 years. [ applause ] >> jim, i think this is the part where we take our stand and thank everybody for coming out and seeing us today. >> what now? >> we thank everybody for coming out and visiting us today. >> yes, yes, yes. we want to thank everybody for coming out. i'm no hero but i just was doing what i was supposed to do. just being a good citizen. and somebody asked me, would you go again? i said yes, i would, to defend our country, i would go again. [ applause ] >> thank you so much to mr. shipley and mr. amock for being here. we'll open the floor to questions fromma our audience. anybody who would like to is welcome to come to one of the microphones up front and ask their question. afterwards on stage we will be doing a book signing. there are books for sale in the hallway. so, after q & a is over, a line will start forming here for the book signing. so, who has a question for our two gentlemen on the stage? >> hi, mr. shipley. where was your base in italy? >> where were you based at in italy? >> oh, toronto i believe. >> ramatilli. >> my father was with the 99th bomb group in foga, italy. my dad told me how impressed he was with the tuskegee airmen because they flew cover for many of his missions during the war and he was so impressed with the ability of the airmen and all the support individuals. and i just want to thank you for everything that you did. >> thank you. thank you. >> i would like to thank you also plrks shipley. i don't know if you know of tom joyner. he was on the radio. >> tom joyner? >> fm. j-o-y-n-e-r? anyway, his father was a tuskegee airmen and his dad met his mother there on the base. uh-huh. i just wanted to share that little nugget with you, and his wife. and the audience. >> thank you. [ applause ] >> first of all, thank you for your service and secondly, thank you for keeping alive the story of the tuskegee. you obviously saw many exciting and memorable events. what's the most memorable day that you had in the service? >> well, one of the most memorable one was the night that they bombed our field. we heard a big blast outside and looked out the door and all the planes, a lot of the planes, 35 or 40 planes was on fire. and that created a lot of excitement. but they wouldn't let us go up to the field because they had guns going off, ammunition. nobody allowed on the field but the firemen. that was one of the most memorable events that i had. but i tell you something else. when we didn't have material or the 99th did, when the planes were shot, they couldn't find any material to patch them. so they used beer cans to do that. >> you were forced to empty those beer cans first or -- >> the guys found some empty ones around. that was some of the ways that we maintained those airplanes and kept them in flight. and if we had to, we would work all night to get that plane back in shape the next morning to go. >> i want to thank you. i want to verify your talk about bringing a grandfather home. i was 16 during world war ii and we lived in lincoln, nebraska. >> yes. >> for one year. i met a young man who had been trained to be a nose gunner on a b-24. and he was sent to italy and he wrote back from italy and said that the tuskegee airmen had saved them many times when they were finally asked to escort the b-24s into berlin and you could imagine what this young man saw, sitting in the nose of that plane, the flack that they had to fly through and some of the planes going down. and he said he could thank the tuskegee airmen for escorting them and he came home. i just want to thank you and verify what you said that, we really do thank you for what did. i talked to a james shepherd who was also a crew chief in italy. i don't know if you might have known him or not. >> yes. yes, i did. >> did you really? >> yes. >> he lives in one of the veterans' homes in maine now. i've never met him but i know a woman that has gone to some of the tuskegee airmen reunions in florida with him. she lives here in kansas city, too. so, thank you very much. [ applause ] >> well, colonel mcgee was a pilot. pardon me for butting in. but he was called, ready to go. ready to go mcgee. you could call him day or night and he was ready to go. >> good evening, mr. shipley. what do you enjoy doing now? when you wake up in the morning, you're 94 years old, which i think is wonderful. but just living with your wife in tipton and when you wake up in the morning, what is it that you really look forward to? >> well, when i wake up in the morning, first thing i do is thank the lord. [ applause ] for giving me another day. and the wife and i, like i say, we've been married 68 years. we still get along good. and i cut my own grass at home and everything. god's been good to me. yes. >> i've kept him pretty busy, too, lately. we've been running all over missouri, haven't we? >> yes, we have. you keep me busy, too. >> mr. shipley, i'm from kansas city. we appreciate you coming and sharing an important part of our heritage, our legacy. i just have one question. what was the best part, is the best part about having been a tuskegee airmen? >> the best part is to prove to everybody that we can work together. [ applause ] when i say "we" i'm including black, white, god's rainbow. and that's all different colors. we are here to please the lord and try to serve him. but i really enjoyed that, working together. >> together as one. >> together as one. that's right. >> thank you for your service and the impact that your service had on the country. the nation owes you a debt of gratitude. i was hopeful that you could introduce your dear wife to the audienc audience. >> can you introduce mildred and introduce your children, too? >> okay. yes. this is my wife. stand up and turn around. i've got a daughter in the audience, cynthia. i don't know where you at? >> over here, jim. >> and my son-in-law, earl mcpherson. and i got a niece over there, ariel. she wants to be a lawyer. [ applause ] i know she's going to be one because she studies hard. and i've got a brother-in-law over here, and his wife. kenneth? >> is tim here? >> i don't think tim's here. is he? he's back over there. okay. there's my son, tim. i didn't know he had come in yet. >> when we were running around the state, doing this book tour, i would usually drive. of course, i had one hand on the wheel and jim started calling me tim. he said you drive like tim with one hand on the wheel. i guess that's a compliment. >> yeah. well, it is. >> okay. >> he scared me to death. [ laughter ] >> me or tim? >> tim did. because tim got a sandwich. and he was eating the sandwich with both hands and driving with his knees. but that's the way he drives. he's used to doing that. >> and we'll take our last question right here. >> sir, thank you for your service. this is an honor i will never, ever forget in my whole life. when you did your training in lincoln, was that at the strategic air command base? >> was it what? >> you weren't off it? >> no. no. >> thanks for your service. >> thank you. >> thank you so much. thank you, everybody, for coming. and if you would like to get your book signed, we're starting a line here and it will work its way around. we'll do some arranging on the stage here and that will take just a minute. just a reminder, books are for sale in the hallway. interested in american history tv? visit our website c-span.org/history. you can view our tv schedule, preview upcoming programs and watch college lectures, museum tours, archival films and more. c-span.org/history. american history tv is on c-span 3 every weekend, featuring museum tours, archival films and programs on the presidency, the civil war and more. here say clip from a recent program. >> if you have already been taught by these weak writers to suspect your government anyway and then you see your government doing things that, as far as you're concerned, any sensible person would see was either unconstitutional or dangerous, taxing you when they don't represent you, not letting you have a trial by jury, keeping you from expanding westward, to get further away from their control, making the judges subject to removal any time they want to get rid of a judge, putting troops in the colonies when there's nobody to fight but you, helping the church of england get bigger and more powerful here when everybody knows it's just another quasi governmental body, you're going to start worrying. and although all of this stuff looks really stupid from the view in england, it doesn't look stupid to you. >> you can watch this and other american history programs on our website, where all our video is archived. c-span.org/histor c-span.org/history. >> next on lectures in history, american university lecturer aaron bell teaches a class about privacy laws and federal surveillance of civil rights leaders. he describes the mid 20th century creation of the counter intelligence program often called co-intel pro and tracking and infiltrating of domestic. his class is about 45 minutes. >> welcome to class, everybody. today we're going to talk about history of government surveillance. the central question i want to think about today, can intelligence agencies operate in a democratic society and be successful in protecting the government and its citizens while also upholding the same citizens' rights? especially the right to descent? in other words, are liberty and security compatible? no doubt there is