Minutes. All right, so this next panel is a little different. The first two, in a sense. You had a military power. You had a panel. And this is what i call a disparate panel. Each of these folks represents something quite different. But the theme that brings it together is, postwar vietnam and all the different ways it has evolved. And rather than go through the tedious nature. Long introductions. Keith Washington Posts brilliant Foreign Correspondent man about town currently runs the journalism at the university of hong kong, which is worth its own panel. Right. And hong is a professor of distinction at columbia and. I can tell you, having been to one of her events just the other day, it was completely fascinating for reasons i think well get into, which is what is the nature of todays vietnam and ambassador burckhardt was not an ambassador when i first met him. He was a Junior Service officer who, unlike the rest of his people, actually talked to a reporter, which may have been the reason it took him so long to, get to be an ambassador. But thats nature of these three folks. And really, i want to do i want to start with you hank. So yesterday, susan and i were in atlanta. We went to this great big food mall, which is now a big hot thing. Everybody has, these multiple and the biggest and most successful one in the place was a vietnamese one. She had three boots. She left in 79. Her family just had to go and they got and they came in and i said, so how do the 2 million vietnamese or as many of them as we could guess, feel about vietnam today . And she said, you know, the last ten years weve become very proud, proud of our vietnam which i think is a is a is an irony of great consequence given we went through. So talk about the vietnam of today. First and then the vietnam of the vietnamese americans who have now been here. 50 years. Big questions we have 10 seconds big question great question. I wanted to change the panel a little bit to say and vietnamese after 1975, thats and i think that that might tie some of the points i want to make about sort of where the vietnamese today and vietnamese are global vietnamese and, you know, over the past, close to now, 50 years, particularly as we get to 25, one of the things i was going to say about legacies is that, you know, that that that war that ended and april 30th, 75, really did it in many ways and that it continued for the vietnamese so vietnam of course has that great quote that even after you know the last american leaves the war doesnt end and thats particularly true for the vietnamese in vietnam as well as the vietnamese who left in the diaspora. And it felt like for of us in country and then also abroad that this was our forever war. And in many ways the vietnamese civil war continued in vietnam as well as, in the United States of america, in particular, the largest Diaspora Group of vietnamese live. And i can only say, you know, to the second part of your question that what i hoping to see today is that reconciliation really needs to happen with. Regards to vietnamese in vietnam and vietnamese in the diaspora. I think that is the is the you know, the area that can can get the can basically needs the most work done not so much us vietnam reconciliation not states to sort of state relations not you know American Veterans and viet veterans of vietnamese descent but really between vietnamese and im starting to that so i will hopefully come back and say its no longer the forever war and that its changing and i we were joking around that we want to be the bob kerrey of the panel. And i want to im going to be the bob kerrey here and say that, you know, there is one institution thats really promoting that and thats Fulbright University, vietnam. And so i think through what is basic, i think the best face of us, vietnam reconciliation, this university, its also for me, i see it as a vehicle to allow vietnamese vietnamese in vietnam and vietnamese in the diaspora to really promote reconciliation, reconciliation amongst ourselves. Okay, ray, you were there in the seven days as a young Foreign Service officer, and then you came back as the American Ambassador. A post war, vietnam. So when you were there as a junior political officer, could you have imagined what you find when you came back as ambassador spanned those two experiences for us. When we when we were there, i was and i began my time in vietnam in the seventies up there from 1970 to 73. I think i seven months with a private with a u. S. Advisory team, one of the provinces mainly dealing ethnic vietnamese who had fled from long knolls pogrom against in cambodia and then two years in the embassy we had a small group of seven young guys, all men all mostly in their twenties, who spoke vietnamese. And we were out there dealing with the vietnamese every day. The civil society, my kids, religious groups, veterans groups, a lot of angry student groups and we sometimes felt we were like the only americans who were doing that. There day and what we came up with was a sense, yes, there was a real civil war. There were large parts of the population, particularly the catholics, that i was dealing with. The the the whole howard religious group down in the delta, others, they really were very were very anticommunist. They really not want the government to fall. The other things the other thing we came to understand was this was probably not going to turn out. This was as Frankie Fitzgerald put it, very i mean, this was a government of one of one lousy general after another. And it was completely top down rule. There was no there was no no popular support. This government. Absolutely not. And you know, even even a 25 years old or whatever we were we were to figure out that probably was not going to turn out well, whereas the people on the other side had real dedication, real dedication to their fight. But one thing, you know what . I came back to vietnam. I mean what year was it when you came back . I went i actually made a brief trip to vietnam, 82. It just to begin the negotiations on the issue of allies in reagan administration. I with richard armitage, who was a just a Deputy Assistant secretary of state. I a look, you know, you know, sort of middle level guy in the state department, just the two of us. It only took 13 years from then to finally get normalization. But we took the first step. Then i really went back in and at the end of 2001 as ambassador, and ive been and was there for three years, and ive been back many times since then and most recently last. You know, i think the one the greatest constant really was it was obvious to anyone who worked with vietnamese in any period in the last 50 years or maybe longer, that these were very entrepreneurial, these were hard working, entrepreneurial people. They also had, as my chinese friends always point out, these are these are fellow you know, these are people who education, who respect the values of parents pulled, you know, have given them theyre theyre theyre theyre theyre and as a result very successful people and as a result we chinese want to talk about my taiwanese friends. We want to invest there and its you know weve done well so that entrepreneurial spirit was still there and that and the sense of humor that has also kept going. Humor or irony . Both both. You know, the fact that some some vietnamese like to say, you know, actually we are a lot like Chinese Culture and everything, but were chinese with a sense of humor, you know, so thats my vietnamese sort of joke, you know thats true. Thats true. With no disrespect for. My chinese friends. So those were constants. And so i, i wasnt i was not surprised that vietnam taking off even in 2000 when you could see it taking off. I was not at all surprised. It was also interesting to see that the south was taking off economically a bit better than the north. You know, if there any legacy that came from horrible experience of french and then american rule in that in in the south for all those years it was that did develop a sense of to operate a private sector and and its one of the reasons why it continued today. Like you know when intel was trying to decide where to go and, you know, when they made their, you know, critical, that turned around the sort of the nature of American Investment in vietnam in thousand three, 2000, four. They they said we have to go to the south, know at that. Thats where the skills are thats where the also the best part of government wanted them to go to the north. But they they so so you know it was it was wonderful see what had become but it was not total surprise. So you anticipate that the war the american war end as it did . Yeah and when you came back, you were not altogether surprised that the country had started to what it has become, correct . Thats good summary. And when when i was at your event the other day, which was discussion between a group of vietnamese, as i guess they were all officials, i took an american in and. The consensus seemed to be on the american that it was the decisive mission to enable the internet that made such a profound difference in vietnam that 60 million vietnamese are on facebook. Thats a astonishing fact. What is it you think, aside from the spirit and the sense of humor what was it that has given modern vietnam its character in the way that it has it . I wish i could take ownership of that feel about the, you know, the that the the most important event is the deregulate of the internet and facebook. But that belongs to that man over there in the audience should probably pull up a chair here and thats mr. Tommy balsillie who really you know the founder of Fulbright University vietnam, tom valley, as chair of the fulbright chairman, of the board of chairman of the board of the fulbright, just and so you know, i, i definitely agree with that, i think vietnam in certain goes a different way of china. I know if that will continue in the future as, vietnam may continue to i mean, could clamp them down but that was a huge decision that did change the face of the way vietnam is developing and, going to our great event that we had with this committee that is going to inform the next Party Leaders regarding the party congress, about capitalist development and what road vietnam should take. You know, i thought it was amazing. I amazing for me, as someone whos parents were actually from South Vietnam and father fought in the republic of vietnam and of the things that struck me when i told them, like theyre going to come to columbia, theyre going to have this this, you know, meeting with with with call them practitioners are capitalist country to academics who study capitalist development in the 20th century, in the 21st century. And one of the things he said to me and i thought this was quite striking, the fact that they came you to set up this meeting and to bring about academics, the practitioners really means a lot to him. Now he from he was from the north, from ireland and left in 1954 at the partition following the geneva conference. And then of course, we fled in 1975. You know he kept drawing this line for me each time i would go back because im a historian of actually of of North Vietnam of Party Politics during war era. And he kept saying, you know, and i was meeting more and more vietnamese government officials. I met the former president , the former Prime Minister, and would always say, this is fine, just dont meet the general secretary of the communist party and then after this, theres this meeting we had that. Peter, thank you so much for and making great points. He said, know what . Its over. Vietnam is, you know, the government really knows to lead. You know, the people in the 21st century to develop the economy. Who are we to say the losers in . The United States of america, the vietnamese of the former republic of vietnam . How do we know we would run the country any better . Now, im not saying that vietnam and the current government wont encounter problems or wont the wrong decisions in this process. But i love to hear those words from my father because for me what that meant too, was that living particularly in america, that we can now see our future in this country, you know, with that that shadow cast by history of that war. So that i mean, you know, we i know well get around and theres so many people who are much more of an than me on vietnam road to development. What will happen to vietnam, the 21st century. But one of the things i always take away and as my teach my students at columbia, is vietnam. The vietnamese suffered the most the global cold war. We suffered, as frank said, you know, because the global cold war really became about decolonization in the third world. And it was not about this eastwest rivalry in many places. It much more about the sinosoviet split. But the vietnamese suffered the most, in my opinion. But we cannot let that happen in the 21st century. And so in many ways, vietnam has this you know, its in this great position to oversee and potentially hopefully kind of point the world towards peace, particularly in this rise and in tensions between the United States and china. Thats markedly different from where vietnam. And the vietnamese stood in 1945. Keith, youve got a double barreled responsibility partly, and you are where the Southeast Asia correspondent of the Washington Post, based in thailand, is i recall where based on the philippines alternative, even worse. So you would go back and forth into vietnam i want you to talk a little bit about what it was as a reporter postwar. You were not one of the generation that covered the war were the generation that came after it. I mean, and then im going to come back and ask you to carry the responsibility of an africanamerican because vietnam was a it was, in a sense, the first fully integrated war and a great deal of the american culture, black africanamerican culture comes out of that war. And you study it, although you did not live it. And id like you to talk about first, whats it like being a reporter, going back to a country that we lost the war first . Yeah, sure. Absolutely. To put it into some perspective, i was born in 1958, so 1968, i was ten years old. I became a reporter because i became journalist. I wanted to be a journalist from a very young age because of two things watergate and vietnam. I wanted to become a reporter because of watergate, and i wanted to become a foreign correspond it because i remember watching on television the vietnam war. You know, i remember watching these dramatic reports about the tet offensive. My parents, you know, walter cronkite, you know, i know up there. And i said, well, i want to i want to do that. And then they would switch in the next the next segment always be from paris. The paris peace talks. And that would be Peter Jennings in his trench. I said, well, i want to go to paris, too. So so ultimately, i got my wish because i got to go Southeast Asia. Then i went to paris as a correspondent so so that was how i went there. But i kind of went there like a lot of reporters. So my first trip to vietnam was probably 1988 or so, and this was just after lang van nguyen announced the doi, the opening and reform was kind of the vietnamese version of glasnost and perestroika. I went there with really the wrong thing. I went there. I went there to, cover the war. I went there to cover the aftermath of the war, not to cover what was happening in vietnam. Right away. I wanted to go see wanted to go see these places i had seen as a i wanted to see hawaii. I wanted to see, you know, you know, where would the where were the tunnels. Where are the where is the whole chi minh trail, really . All these battles i had known about as a kid, i wanted to go write stories about that. Jeon bin fu. So i did go and i did. Ill do all of these. I went to hawaii. I went to you know, i went to kaesong, i went to the dmz and all this stuff. So i was writing about war, but the vietnamese were interested in saying, you know, thats past thats over. Know right about where we are now. Thats what i thought was most interesting. It and there was no, among other things was absolutely no hostility towards an american there. They kind of indulge me its you know saying oh, yeah, yeah, well take you to see the ho chi minh trail. Well take you to see this. But why do you care about all that . That was all in the past. We dont care about that anymore. So one of the things i found in that period, this was late early nineties, was they were for normalization with the us they really were desperate for normalized and they couldnt understand we had a trade embargo. And so it was, you know, in the late eighties, it was still desperately poor. They didnt want to be reliant on the russians. You know, there was a statue. There still is, i think, of lenin and, you know, of of gentleman jean bien phu street in, hanoi and the vietnamese used joke standing there with one hand in his pocket and pointing in the vietnamese. Yes. Hands in his pocket, because the russians are so cheap, you know, im not making this up. The vietnamese would say, yes, the russians are so cheap. How come the americans arent here . You know, we should be you know, the americans should be here. And so, you know, over by time, many, many trips going in and out, i started say, you know, theyre kind of right. Why dont we have a trade embargo on vietnam . Why arent we here, you know, doing business . These are really interesting. You know, you know, entrepreneurial, industrious people. But we have a trade embargo on getting into vietnam in. Those days was very difficult. You had to actually you had to send in a telex until they got fax machines and you had to send in a fax machine. You had to say where you wanted to go, and then, you know, and then sometimes they would fax back or telex you back. And it took months to actually organize one of these trips. Parenthetically, i was in the philippines, was based in the philippines at the time. That actually was one of the easiest places to get in and out of because the philippines recognized vietnam and they had they they opened direct flights on Philippine Airlines and Vietnam Airlines going from manila to ho chi minh city, other that you had to do this kind of, you know, trek bang