Transcripts For CSPAN3 Oral Histories 20240622

Was born on december 2 1922 in hamburg, germany. Did you have any brothers or sisters . I had one brother. His name was hans juergen. He was one year and nine months older than i was. What was your fathers occupation . Jerry von halle he was an architect, specializing in Building Department stores in hamburg. Could you tell me a little bit about your childhood while you are in hamburg . Jerry von halle it was a very pleasant time. My father was doing rather well as an architect. We lived in an upper middleclass neighborhood in hamburg. We went to Public Schools there and life was pretty nice. Although, i understand what i was a baby, we are talking about 1922, 1923, it was at the end of world war i and the inflation, and understand from my mother, they bought a bottle of milk for one million marks. The times were not that easy when i was a baby, but i do not remember that. We went to public school. We went to what they called a Junior High School. And then hitler, well of course, in 1930 and 31931 and 1932, hitler became more popular and things became more difficult for the jews, although im still a young child and not quite aware of everything going on. In 1933, he came to power as chancellor. And then things changed very dramatically. I still remember being in Junior High School as an 11yearold and we had to learn how to give the hitler salute. He we were marching around in the gymnasium, giving the hitler salute in the proper fashion. Whenever there was a holiday every house had to display a flag, it was either the swastika flag or the german flag. We did not display either one of them, but then we were told that we had to, so my father went out and he bought the german flag, black, red, and gold flag. We displayed that on the balcony. My father was very much aware that there was no future for us. So since he had a sister married to a dutchman in amsterdam, he decided to move to amsterdam although we had been thinking in terms of doing going to america, but america 1933 was not exactly be streets were not lined with gold. I think america did not need a german architect at that particular time, so we moved to amsterdam. Amsterdam, in those days, was an absolutely delightful place to live. I would say probably one of the most wonderful times of my life i spent in amsterdam as a young man. It was a very quiet easygoing , lifestyle. The dutch were delightful people. Everything went very slowly. Everything was very neat. Everything was very clean. And so there we went to school even though when we arrived there, the dutch schools were way ahead of the german schools. And so, both my brother and i were put back one class. So, we were put back one grade. Holland, as i said, was delightful. Uneventful to a degree. And we were not of course the war clouds started gathering in the late 30s, but we were not too much worried about holland becoming involved in the war, because in the last war world war i, holland was neutral. And for whatever reason i cant give you the reason, but for whatever reason, we felt the dutch people felt the cause we were neutral in world war i we probably will remain neutral in world war ii. Needless to say, that did not turn out to be true. In may of 1940, the german army moved into holland, and the war really was over before it even began because the dutch army had to capitulate within four or five days. We were no match for the german army that came in with a tremendous amount of air power etc. , etc. , etc. Being a jew, of course, that was a very very unsettling time for us. We did not know what to expect. We saw the german army marching through the streets. We saw, for the first time in my life, i would see the green uniforms of the gestapo. I had never seen that before. And they marched through the streets. And to be very honest, we were quite frightened by all of this. As it turned out, the first year of the occupation was completely uneventful. The germans in that first year of occupation behaved almost unbelievably gentlemen like. They didnt alter anybody. They didnt all bother anybody. There were no real problems. Until one day, a group of young jews were arrested in amsterdam. Just haphazardly. They were taken off the streets. There was no reason for it. And they were arrested. And then followed about a month or so later there was a from what i was told, i dont know if that was exactly the way it happened there was an explosion at a german officers club. Now whether it was an explosion or somebody let the soup boil over or whatever happened, i do not know what happened. At but they decided to arrest 225 young german jews not dutch jews, german jews. And so one night i was coming home. I came home around 4 00. My brother was working, learning the metals trade. And my brother came home about i would say around 5 30. We lived on the ground floor in amsterdam and our bicycles were around front so that people knew we were home, and the doorbell rang. And i never gave it a Second Thought and they walked to the front door, opened up the door and two men and Brown Leather coats in Brown Leather coats pushed their way past me, went into the living room, and came out with a list, and they asked me whether anybody by the name of hans jurgen von halle lived here. Well, my brother was in the back room, and truthfully i did not know what to say. Before i could say anything, my brother came out of the back room and wanted to know what was going on and they turn to him and said, whats your name . And he said, my name is hans jurgen von halle. And then they said, is there a Gert Karl Van Halle here . I said no. They said, whats your name . I said sigmund karl van halle. They said it must be the same one. They put us under arrest. They pushed us out the door, just the way we were. We did not have time to say goodbye to our parents. And they marched us from our house to the gestapo headquarters in amsterdam. Now when i say they marched us we were not we were not handcuffed. We were just my brother and i were just walking there individually and these two gestapo agents in their leather coats just followed behind about, i dont know, 20 feet behind. And all they did was tell us turn right, turn left, straight ahead, and if you had passed us by on the street, you would never have known that these two young boys were under arrest. And we arrived at gestapo headquarters, oh, i would say around 5 30, 6 00. And we were one of the last to arrive, and when i looked around, i saw that practically all of my friends were there. There were 226 young german jews all lined up in that gestapo headquarters, which was a former girls school and we were lined up down in the basement and we were shouted out and yelled at and we had to stand at attention. And we stood at attention from 6 00 until about midnight and we were not allowed to talk. We were not allowed to move. We were allowed to go to the bathroom. And around midnight, the commandant of the gestapo headquarters stepped forward and said, is there anybody here who has a serious, and i mean serious, illness to report . And he explained that anybody who would be fooling him, he explained what the drastic consequences of that would be. My brother was standing next to me, pushed me sort of with his elbow and said, step forward. And i was put back there and i said, what can i talk about . Its so turned out that as a child, i was not one of the strongest kids on the block. I suffered a great deal from bronchitis, which 5 million other people suffer from. And my brother said to me, tell them you have tb. I never had tb in my life, thank goodness. In a was very, very reluctant to step forward because i was afraid of the consequences. They told me what the consequences would be if you lied. But hes sort of insisted on it and since he was my older , brother by a almost two years, i stepped forward and i he took me into a room and he says, whats the matter with you . And i said to him, i suffer from tb. And that is all he wanted to know. I had to step back in line. As it turned out, i said to you there were 226 young german jews there and the order was to arrest these jews between the ages of 16 and 21. There was one kid in this group of 226 who happened to be 15 and in typical german fashion, when the order said 16 to 21 you only take people who are 16 to 21. This kid was 15, and therefore around midnight or thereabouts he was dismissed. The kid happened to be not a friend of mine, but he knew me and he went directly from gestapo headquarters to my parents home, told my parents what he saw. My parents could only put two and two together and surmise that probably what i did, i told them i suffered from tb. They in turn went to my family physician, a dutchman, a jewish dutchman, by the name of dr. Hertzberger. When my parents told him what happened, he wrote out a certificate, which i gave to the museum, which states that i am suffering from tb. Now, so we are here now back in the gestapo headquarters in the basement and around midnight or 1 00 in the morning, we were transported from amsterdam to a camp called schoorl, which was in north holland. This was a camp surrounded and protected by the gestapo and we stayed there for approximately oh, i would say somewhere in the neighborhood of six to eight weeks. Our treatment certainly was not good, but it wasnt brutal to the degree that, you know, we learned later happened in concentration camps. We were subjected to all of the harassment and so on, but nobody was killed there. One day, i was called into the Commandants Office of the camp and as i went into the office, i snapped at attention in front of his desk, and i looked down on his desk and i saw a letter i could see it even though it was upside down, i could see it was a letter from dr. Hertzberger, and the commandant says to me, whats wrong with you . And i said to them, i suffer from tb. And this man seem to be the kind of an individual that suddenly did not want to be in the presence of anybody who had a contagious disease, and he said to me, get out of here, and get out of the camp immediately. So, i ran back to my barracks. I said goodbye to my brother who was with me there, and i was released. That day. And now there were 224 boys left. These 224 boys, that same day, were sent from this local concentration camp to probably one of the most infamous concentration camps of all called in austria. I came back from camp. I hitchhiked back. In i was very, very busy going around, seeing all of the parents of my friends who had been there, and telling them a everyone was doing well under the circumstances, etc. , etc. We received a card from my brother from the concentration camp in mauthausen. Remember, we are talking about 1941. That was the early part of the war. We received a postcard from him, which was a sort of printed postcard. It just said, i, and then he filled in his name, born, may 7, 1921, and in concentration camp mauthausen at such and such a date. I am prisoner number so and so in barracks numbers so and so, etc. That was very unusual to receive a letter like this, but the reason we were saying it was, as i said before, it was still 1941. We also received two letters from him. The letters, i also gave to the holocaust museum. They we were not a sentimental family. Somehow we were brought up i dont know how to put it. We were not brought up sentimentally. When we saw the letter from my brother, which started off he wrote in german, because they had to pass the what you call them, these sensor. He wrote in german dear, dear parents. Now that is not the way my brother would speak. He does not say dear, dear parents. That is not his language. That was not my language. And then he goes through the letter, and in the letter you can see when you read the letter, you can see the absolute desperation these boys were in. That he was in. We received two letters and that was it. Shortly after the last letter arrived, i got a i dont remember whether it was a call or a notice from amsterdam that someone in the family had to report to the gestapo headquarters, and my parents wanted to go, and i did not allow them to go, and i went there and what happened was, they showed us a list of all 224 boys. Every one of them had died of pneumonia. Needless to say excuse me for one second needless to say, from what i understand mauthausen was one of the most cruel concentration camps. They didnt have a gas chamber. They didnt have to have a gas chamber. This was a stone quarry, and from what i understand, these boys were just lined up at the top of the quarry and just pushed down into the quarry which was, whatever it was, 100 feet lower below and just pushed to their death. Very efficient way of killing people without bullets, without gas, without anything. Well, i came back home, and this is probably one of the most difficult things for me to tell my parents that their lets see, my brother was maybe 21 or 20. He was 20. That their 20yearold son, six foot tall, broad shouldered, never been sick in his life had died of pneumonia. My mother, who was the strong party in the family, stood up very well. My father absolutely disintegrated. He absolutely disintegrated. About the news. He could not take it. Could not hack it. And my mother really sort of was, as you might say [speaks foreign language] that was the first chapter in the story. We then, 1941, we then continued. Things after that moved quickly. We were, of course, jews were not allowed to go on the streetcar. Jews were not allowed to have radios. You had to turn them in. Jews were not allowed to have silver. You had to turn it in. Then came the yellow star. Everybody had to wear the yellow star. I will tell you quite frankly, and wearing a yellow star, even though i was certainly very proud to be a jew, but going out into the street with a star this big with the word jew, or in dutch jood, jood, printed on it is a very strange feeling. If you have never experienced it, it is like going out on the street today and saying i have i am a prisoner, going out in the street with a prison uniform. Its almost the same comparison. More arrests and more arrests, and more arrests, and before you knew it, these friends were taken prisoners and these friends were taken prisoners. In the meantime, in order to be able to escape from deportation, i took a job learning the shoemakers trade. That you were becoming a shoemaker to the jewish population. And for a limited period of time, that exempted you from being deported. So i became a shoemaker. And realizing, of course, this was a limited kind of thing. This would not be anything of longstanding. And one day i said to my parents, this cant go on. Too many people have been arrested. Our turn, if its not today, it will be tomorrow, and if not tomorrow, it will be next week. We have to get out of here. So, we decided one day actually from one day to the next, we decided to leave our house. And i want you to know, we just left the house just the way it was. With the pictures on the walls and the food in the refrigerator and the clothes in the closet, and nothing was taken. The only thing we did is we gave the key to our apartment to one of our neighbors who we knew and trusted. And these were two ladies, which i will come back to later on in my story, and they had a key to the apartment, but we just left. I only attended college for one year, and one of the College Professors, and his name was mr. Inhout. That was his name. I called him and let him know what our situation was. Without blinking an eye, without hesitating for one minute, he says come right over. So, we walked out of the apartment and we went to his apartment, and it was just a family of four, a husband and wife, a boy and a girl about my age, and there was no room for three people. It was a three bedroom apartment. One room was occupied by the parents, one room was occupied by the girl, and one room was occupied by the boy. And what they did was, they put the boy and the girl together in one room and gave me the third room and their brotherinlaw took my parents. Now the problem is, now we are no longer officially in residence in our regular home, we no longer have access to rationing cards. Rationing cards is the lifeline to food, and these two ladies, who were living above us, they belonged to the dutch underground. And they supplied us with ration cards. And so we stayed, my parents at the inlaws and the brotherinlaws house, and i at his house, we stayed for a couple months, until they found a permanent residence for us which was on a farm house, maybe in the south of holland, a small village, maybe a couple hundred people in the whole village. It was a small town. Not known for anything except they make church bells. We went to the town, and we went to this farmhouse and it was a great relief, because in amsterdam we had to stay in one room. In the farmhouse, at night at least, i could go into the garden and so on and walk around in the middle of the night. And everything was pretty pleasant there until one day a mr. And mrs. Caan arrived also another jewish couple, and mr. Caan was a very nice little gentleman. You might call him in the american slang, you might call him a milquetoast. Very nice, lovely person. His wife was the exact opposite. His wife was a beautiful lady, a tremendous flirt, and before you turned around, she took up an affair with the farmer. Who had a wife, who had children, and i guess the farmers wife was not happy about the situation. And in desperation went to the authorities and told him that there were jews in this house, unbeknownst to us of course. So one night, we were sitting at the dinner table, which was downstairs, facing the street, and as i am looking out the window, i all of a sudden see a small car, a small german army car pulling up with four german gestapo agents jumping out of the car and running into the house. As we saw the car arriving everybody went different ways. My father went into the attic. I went mrs. Caan went out the back door into the woods. Mr. Caan went into his bedroom. My mother went into our bedroom and hid in a closet. And i went into a toilet, and behind the toilet there was a little ledge. I sort of crouched behind the ledge. And before i could even turn around, i can hear the gestapo agent arresting my father, because i could hear him talking to my father. And mr. Caan was arrested immediately, and the farmer was arrested. So what they did is they took all of the suitcases from mr. And mrs. Caan, and they put them into our bedroom, and our suitcases were in the headroom and they put the suitcases in front of my mothers closet where she was hiding, and every closet in the house was opened up except that one closet. Why . Because they themselves barricaded that one closet, and so that was the reason they didnt get in there. They left with the prisoners my father, mr. Caan, and the farmer. And they sealed the room. They sealed the room in which my mother was hiding. They put a wax seal on it, and they said they would be back two hours later to get the goodies. As soon as they left, i got out my closet, out of my little hiding place in the toilet, and i spoke to my mother over the phone, and i will tell you quite frankly, in all my life i have never made a more difficult decision than i did that point. My mother came out of the closet, and we are now discussing what to do next. She could not get out of the house because the house was surrounded. If there were 200 people in the village, i think all 200 were standing around the house. There was no way to get her out of the window or anything like that. Besides the window was up on the second floor. So the question was really should you stay in the closet, or should you go under the bed . Those were the two alternatives in that little room. And i decided, based on nothing, based on gut feeling, if you want to call it, that i wanted her to go under the bed. So she went under the bed. I went back into my little hiding place, and sure enough, a couple hours later they came back. And they opened the room, and they emptied out every closet every suitcase, they took the suitcase, put it on top of the bed. Actually only two men came back. Originally there were four. Now they only had two men come back. One was standing on one side of the bed, the other was standing on the other side of the bed and they empty the suitcases and i remember like it was yesterday. I had the First Electric razor that was ever made. Not that i had the first one but it was one of the first razors ever made by phillips. And all of a sudden i hear my razor going. These guys had never seen an electric razor. So that was good for me. I will take the razor. Then they pulled out a suit and that suit will fit my brotherinlaw, and that is good for my girlfriend. The entire thing was divided up between these two characters while my mother was hiding. Under the bed. They mustve spent a minimum of an hour and a half in that room, dividing up the loot. If you analyze it, if you think about it, here is a woman under the bed. If she had as much as coughed, sneezed, or anything the difference between what we sometimes forget the difference between being caught and not being caught is the difference between being alive or dead. That is the difference. In other words, you can always say, well, i got caught. I stole an apple, and a cop caught me, and he put me in jail for week and i get out again. This was not the case. Here, if you get caught, thats the end of your life. Its a death sentence. So my mother and i might say one other thing. When my father was arrested, you know, he was up in the attic. He came down, and they put him into the bedroom where my mother was in the closet at the beginning, and they must have left them alone for 30 seconds or so. He took off his ring, his wedding band, and threw it into the closet, and that ring i still have to this day. That was his wedding band that he gave to his wife, my mother and that was the only thing that we saved. So after they took all of the loot, they could not fit it all into their car. They took what they could, sealed the room for the second time, and said they would come back the next morning. So after they left, here is my mother back in that room sealed, unable to get in. I decided at that point, she had to get out, come hell or high water. She had to get out of that room. She was lucky twice. First in the closet when they did not see her, then under the bed. This will not last the third time. Around midnight, after all the people around the village had gone home, i put a ladder up against the house, and i went up on the ladder, and she came out of the window and put her feet on my shoulder and we sort of whichever way we finally made it downstairs. Now where do we go from here . Now, the farmer had a very, very tall haystack. One of these huge haystacks with a roof over it. And we decided we are going to go up on that haystack and see where we will go from there. We did not know what we were going to do. So we climbed up onto the haystack with the ladder. Which was not too uncomfortable. It was a comfortable place to relax. So, a couple of hours later we got word from the underground that the gestapo had found out that there were two more jews left in the house, and the gestapo was on their way back to get both my mother and i. With that message in hand, we had to make a decision. Where are we going from here . Here we are in the south of holland. We decided i was told also by the underground that the railroad station was surrounded by the gestapo. And so therefore we could not go there. It was impossible. So i knew the next railroad station was further south. And i did not know exactly how to get there, but i knew what general direction i had to go. So i took my mother by the hand , and we walked, i would say we walked somewhere in the neighborhood of five or six hours through the woods. Probably more than that until we finally reached the next down at the railroads station. We boarded the train and my mother and i both have the same compartment. We did not sit together, because if one of us got arrested we did not want both of us to be arrested. I sat there with a newspaper in front of me, so my face would not show up. My mother was sitting on the other side of the railroad and we took off and the next railroad stopped at west holland. I looked out the window, ensure and sure enough, there they were waiting for us. We went back to amsterdam. When i got back to amsterdam, i got on the phone and i called my teacher, the only person i knew not the only person i knew, but the only person i knew who might be able to help us. And the teacher, i called him on the phone and i said here we are. This is what happened. My father was arrested. My mother and i are here. And again, without thinking for one second, he says, come right over. So this is 1943. We are walking clear across amsterdam. From the railroad station. And we wind up back at mr. Inthouts house. Here again, this little apartment. It is a city apartment. We were there. And we stayed in one room. My mother and i stayed in that room for two and a half years. Never left the room. Never saw fresh air. And it is a strange feeling. Even a prisoner is allowed every day to exercise. We could not exercise. We were in that room. And so here we are. Then the following year, mrs. Inthout died. Natural causes. She died. Which was a difficult time because now there were 100 people coming to the apartment and no one was allowed to know that we were in that little apartment. We stayed in that room, and somehow they put chairs in front of the door so no one would walk into the room where we were hiding. Interviewer what was it like living in that one room . How did you keep yourself occupied during the day . Jerry von halle very difficult. We did get the underground newspaper, which was called volk. We read that. These were very religious people. They were protestant people. And they read a great deal about the new testament and the old testament, and truthfully, i learned a great deal about the new testament and the old testament. I took up sketching. I got some paper and a pencil and i did some sketching, and i still have those sketches. I saved them. It was very, very difficult, and of course every we were always aware. Every time the doorbell rang, every time i heard somebody coming up the stairs, you could hear it. You always worry. Who is this . Who is coming up the stairs . So we decided to there was a closet. And i decided to cut a hole into the roof of the closet. It was about two feet. I cut a feet i cut a hole in the attic. I got a ladder, and there i was, in the attic. And at the end of the attic i saw there was a wall. It was a brick wall, and i took a hammer and a screwdriver and slowly i took out, brick by brick by brick, i took out a small section of that wall. Just a triangle, just big enough, and every time i took out the brick, i would mark the brick with a number. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc. So what happened was, when i took out the brick, you got into the next attic, and there in the next attic, when i was in that attic, i took the brick and put it back, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. So it almost became a solid brick quality in. Whenever there is any kind of problem, my mother and i would go up into this 2x2 hole, crawl into that attic, into the annex, and put the brakes back in again, etc. , etc. What else it we do . I must say, just about every day we practiced. We practiced going up there, making sure we knew how to do it and how to do with the quickest way. We became expert. I tell you, we were such experts climbing up the ladder, i knew every brick by sight. It was very difficult. Very difficult. To an years in one room without leaving that room twoandahalf years and one without leaving that room b review have a tendency you could lose your mind. But on top of it, of course, we have all of holland now the invasion of holland took place the invasion of europe took place in 1944, dday. That was 1944. And the American Forces in the British Forces in the Canadian Forces and so on, the liberated every part of europe, including berlin. There was one little piece that was not liberated yet. They liberated anheim. You may recall the story of the bridge where the americans lost a tremendous number of people. The whole southern part of holland was already liberated. We were still, up to the last day, we were still under occupation. Interviewer just go back a little bit to the room. How did your mother handle being in that room for two and half years, the pressure in the pain . Jerry von halle well, my mother and i were well matched. We were easygoing people. You might think living together in one room with would present and especially between a parent in a child, would present a lot of difficulties. I cannot recall that we had any major difficulties. It was very difficult for her, but she was a very understanding individual. She did what she was told to do. She never complained. Never, never complained. I have never heard my mother complain. She was a very, very disciplined individual. Very disciplined. Its difficult. Its difficult. Thank goodness both of us had a strong background and we were disciplined individuals. And every morning that you wake up, you thanked god you were still alive. Interviewer let me bring you back to the [indiscernible] jerry von halle the what . Interviewer the funeral story. Jerry von halle when the wife died . Interviewer yes. Jerry von halle well, the wife died of natural causes. And she had, you know, she had to the funeral people had to come in and do the casket and the whole thing and take her out and then the family, the family had a large circle of friends and family areas and all of these people would come to pay condolence calls. And heres this small city apartment of a College Professor on a fixed salary with 50 people at one time. And though this is family and these are friends, you cannot afford to tell anybody you were hiding jews, because even though they may not on purpose want to tell anybody else, but before you know it you have a problem. It was very difficult. To make sure nobody would walk into our room there. Nobody did. Interviewer how did the food come to you every day . Jerry von halle well, the food was a big, big problem. The last year of occupation was the worst we had had. The hunger was unbelievable. There is nothing to eat. Period. In holland, there was nothing to eat. We ate we ate sugar beets after the sugar had been extracted. You would extract the sugar and you are left with pulp, and the pulp you feed to the animals, to the cows, in holland that is. So this was stuff that you give to the cows. We ate this pulp every day. It was cooked on a small, tiny little tiny little interviewer hotplate . Jerry von halle it was not a hotplate because there was no electricity. You would put a stick of wood in, but it was a genius kind of thing. It was just a little you would put a piece of wood in. There was not much would either in me would just cook this pulp, the sugar beets. It tasted horrible, horrendous. It was the only thing we had. In fact, when the war was finally over, my mother had legs three times the size of her normal legs just from hunger. Interviewer [indiscernible] jerry von halle yeah. As i mentioned to you, my father was arrested in the summer of 1942 in the farmhouse. And he was arrested, it was in the summer, so he was just wearing his usual summer clothes and he was sent to a concentration camp called hertognbosch. It was a concentration camp in holland. We have letters from him. We have about a half dozen letters. He sent them to these two young ladies and in every letter he asked for clothes. My father was basically man, slightly built, etc. And he stay there through the fall and the last letter we received from him was in november. He still had no clothes. At one point he was so sick, we got a letter from him the two ladies got a letter from him or someone else wrote in his name. He was too sick to write the letter himself, pleading for some warm clothes. As it turned out, somewhere in the month of december, he, plus many other people, were lined up we found out through the underground later were lined up at the Railroad Track there in herzogenbusch and were stripped of all of their clothes and were put into cattle cars naked and transported clear transported clear across germany. Where . No one knows. Its obvious to me that he never made it, because you cannot be naked in a cattle car, which is open on all sides in the middle of december and not die, especially if you are in weekend in weakened condition already. My brother, at least i know he died at mauthausen. So, that interviewer ok, i would like to go back to the annex, if i may. Jerry von halle yes. Interviewer do you recall any other stories or events or things that occurred while youre in the annex . Jerry von halle not really. Not much happened in the annex. We were there over and over and over again, but it was just the two of us, and we did not sleep in the annex. We only went there when we heard something which we felt was out of the ordinary. Footsteps that did not sound like somebody familiar. We would quickly go into the annex. We did not live there. This was our second hiding place, so to speak. And otherwise we were just in that one room, that one room which contained was one of those beds that you push up when you do not sleep on it, you push up against the wall, so we had to do beds there and there was a little desk and two chairs and that was it. That was all there was. Interviewer was there any chance you could be overheard by other people in the building . Jerry no. Because we were, everything was done in a whisper. You never, you stepped lightly. You did not walk normally. Everything was done in a whisper. There was no way that anybody could have heard us. We were fully aware of that. The problem with all of this hiding was you were just hoping that the next day would come. And there is one interesting story. Because of the tremendous hunger, you know, we talk about hungry people. I hope nobody has to go through a hunger the way we did. Hunger is, it is so painful. I would wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat. And jump up in bed. Why . Because i was streaming i saw a potato. That was something that, that was like a nightmare. I saw a potato and i thought i could eat it. When i woke up, it was not there. Just a potato. Not a meal, a potato. The hunger was unbelievable. We were we had nothing to eat. Absolutely nothing to eat. In fact, i remember he was on a, he was coming home with one or two potatoes. He found them somewhere on the road. Let me tell you, he came home with these two potatoes. You thought he had found two diamonds in the street. They were just two plain potatoes. That whole family, we were all excited about those two potatoes. Its you cannot believe what it means to be real hungry. We also have he had a radio receiver which was completely illegal. And we heard the bbc with earphones. And i heard messages which were i remember one message the came out from the bbc to the dutch underground and it said, the green cow jumps over the fence. That was one message. What it meant, who it was meant for . I have no idea. The green cow jumps over the fence. And so, we had in the attic, in our hiding place, we had a map of europe. We had little flags. And since we were able to hear the bbc, we were able to see how the german army first moved east. Then finally, think goodness moved back west. And we were still, i was still under occupation when hitler committed suicide. We were still under occupation. Interviewer can you tell me about the events of being caught . Jerry this was about four week before the end of the war. And i did not even know it in the beginning, later on i knew it, was also a member of the underground. He never told me exactly what he did. I dont know whether he told his children what he did. I know he did not tell me. And four weeks before the end of the war, he was out on a mission. What mission . I have no idea. And all of a sudden we get word that he was caught doing whatever he was doing and was executed. And that was four weeks before the end of the war. And here we are, two children, teenagers, the mother had died the year before of natural causes. Their father had just been killed. And we had to get out of there in a big, big hurry. Did not know where to go. The underground found us another teacher, i man i have never met in my life. So here we are again, the last four weeks we moved from one place to the next place. And thats when, thats when finally liberation came. I might say to you liberation came. We were so the feeling that you have, having lived under german occupation. Being called names for five years of being, youre the lowest animal on this earth. We were liberated not by the american army. We were liberated by the Canadian Army. Attached to the Canadian Army was a small detachment of the palestinian there was a jewish brigade, that is what it was called. The jewish brigade. Well, i will say this to you. During five years of war, i dont think i have ever cried. When my brother died and then my father died. I think i never really shed a tear. But when i saw for the first time after five years of occupation, i saw jewish boys in canadian uniforms with the star of david, i absolutely broke down. I absolutely broke down. I cried like a little baby. I could not believe it. I kissed them. I do not know what i did. Very, very emotional for me. Basically, you can really say that since anne franks story is so wellknown my story anne frank and i were both born in germany. We both came to holland in the early 1930s, both went to school in amsterdam. I never met anne frank. We both went into hiding. We both were underground in hiding. Just a few blocks of each other. We both had an annex. We both had everything. Anne franks and my story were very similar. Fortunately for me, the end of the story was different. Interviewer could you tell me a little bit about the surroundings of the last hiding place you went to for that four week period before liberation . How you were transported there . Jerry we walked. There was no transportation. There were no streetcars running anymore. There were no cars running. Some people still have bicycles if they still has the tires. Wasnt difficulty have bicycles but the problem was to have tires. And so, we just walked. We walked wherever it was. It was not that far from where we stayed. It was within the, maybe 4, 5, 6 blocks. We just walks there and it was again a young, this happened to be a young couple. No children. And small apartment. And they, again, they took us in. Never met them in my life. Had no relationship to them. Marvelous, marvelous people. I might say the dutch people in those years were fabulous. They were really fabulous. Yes, there were the dutch like the belgians, like the french, like everybody, there was a nazi party. And there were dutch people joining the s. S. And all of that. But in general, the dutch people were very, very helpful, very helpful. I might mentioned to you when my brother and i were arrested in 1941, the entire country of holland went on strike. There was no railroad running. There was no streetcar running. There was no factory working. The entire country went on strike under german occupation. We were under german occupation, for a handful of jews. And that really tells the story of what happened. How the dutch people behaved. Interviewer can you tell me can you tell me what happened after liberation . Jerry well, after liberation, we, that is a good question. What do you do . Where you going . The first place we went back to our former neighbors. Two ladies were supplying us with our rationing cards during the war. And they had gone, and they had the key to our apartment. And they taken not quite a bit aside from the apartment bit of stuff from the apartment. They had taken out my bicycle. So, the most important thing i got when i got to the five years of war, i had a bicycle. And let me tell you, that was valuable. That was like in america you have a car. Without a car, how are you going to get around . In holland, i had a bicycle. That allowed me to do what i had to do. We finally got a room. We rented a room from a lady who was widow, and she gave us a room for nickels and dimes. My aunt, my father, im sorry, my mother had two brothers in america. Who had left germany before the war. One was a doctor, one was a lawyer, and they both married american women. And so, when the war finally was over, we wrote to them, and they sent us some dollars so that we could at least by some food and so on. The strange thing happened. We were, as i said, we left germany in 1933. We lived in holland all these years. We never became citizens. Not because we did not want to but in holland, you did not, it was very, very difficult to become a citizen. It is not like in america, after five years you can become a citizen. So, therefore, we were farmers in holland. After the war, the reaction of the dutch people to the germans was unbelievable. The hate that had built up over the years was unbelievable. They wanted to tell them apart whenever they saw german. They really were ready to tear them apart. Here we were, after the war, my mother and i had just gone through five years of war. The next thing we find out, we rented this little room from this lady. Next thing, there is a ring, the doorbell rings. Dutch police. Arresting my mother and i. Why . Because we were german according to the passport or whatever. So, we were arrested. We were taken to a, to a school where they put all these people temporarily. And who are in that school . All germans. And hear my mother and i, we are put together with the same people that had haunted us killed us. And we were in the same prison with them. Thank goodness into not take very long, and we were released because they realize, you know what the situation was. Let me tell you, that was that was a strange feeling to be in the same prison with the people who murdered your family. Highly emotional. Interviewer how did you come to the United States . Jerry we had actually, we had applied in 1938, we had applied to come to the United States. And all of those papers are also given to the holocaust museum. And if the war had started instead of in may 1945, in june, of 1945 or maybe july, we would have been in the United States before the war. But the war just broke out before we had the chance to get there. So, in 1945, after the war we had to go to the whole procedure again. Applying for permission to immigrate to the United States. And we finally, with the help of my two uncles, with the affidavits and so on, we came to the United States in the late, the last part of 1945. And i guess the rest is history. Interviewer how was it to adjust to life in the United States . How did you feel . Jerry well, uh, the difference in lifestyle, of course, was tremendous from europe to the United States. I happened to love it. I, uh, i had made up my mind from the minute i got off i came on a Troop Carrier. I came on a dutch Troop Carrier, a Troop Carrier that brought dutch merchant marine sailors over here to bring back, since the dutch had lost all their ships to uboats, they purchase new ships in the United States and the sailors brought the ships back to holland and i was on that ship. And as i got off the boat, i came to this country, i think i had 5. 00 in my pocket. I had no money. I came here, and my first residence was with the stephen s. Weiss Refugee Center in manhattan on Central Park West. Rabbi stephen s. Weiss had a Refugee Center where they put the refugees who came from europe. So i stayed there for a couple days. And i might just mention to you as an interesting story i get here to this country and i had no money, 5. 00. But i knew about one thing. When you come to this country, you buy the New York Times. The New York Times has all the ads for jobs. So i remember my very first day, i went from central park to 59th street and Central Park West and central park south. And there is a kiosk. It is still there today. There is a kiosk selling newspapers. And i bought the New York Times. And i put the newspaper under my arm and went into central park and i sat down on a bench and i looked at this newspaper. I have never seen anything like this in my life. The newspaper was this thick. In holland, we have a newspaper that is two pages. Here, it took me 10 minutes to find out where the personnel ads are. So, finally sat down and my english was very poor. Then i read the ads, and everything was abbreviated. I cannot read english, never mind abbreviated english. So, i took my newspaper under my arm and i said to myself, i am going to sit at a bench were where somebody else is sitting. So i took my newspaper, went to another bench and there was a man sitting there. So, i open up my newspaper and i turn to him and said, could you tell me what does this mean . He says, i do not speak english. Wait a moment. What is this . Im in the United States and the man does not speak english. I thought everybody i take my newspaper under my arm again and i go to another bench. Sit there. And i open up the newspaper and i turned to this man and said, can you explain to me, what does this mean . He says, i not understand. I said, i cannot believe it. I cant believe it. I am in the United States. And they do not speak english. To make a long story short, i finally got my first job at gimbels. This was just before the, when the Christmas Season started. And i went to gimbels Employment Department and they said, the only said to me, what are you looking for . I said, what pays the most . The most right now is we need some wrappers. I said, whatever you need. I am here. So, they put me to work as a wrapper in the Toy Department. And everything went very fine until one day i dropped a toy and the toy broke. And the manager came over. It was one of these expensive toys. He said, this is the end of you. They transferred me from the Toy Department to the rug department. They figured the guy cannot do too much harm in the rug department. So, i went to the regug department, and there were these huge rugs. I was 130 pounds of those days. So, i worked and worked and worked. Then i learned my first lesson my first lesson in america, i learned what a pink slip was. Never knew that. Christmas was over in the day after christmas i had a pink slip in my envelope. So, that was my first job in the United States. But i also, i had made up my mind, as i got off the boat, the one thing i wanted more than anything else, i wanted to become an american. When i say an american, i wanted to be a real american. I did not want an accent. I did not want to sound like a refugee for the rest of my life. And the one ambition i had in life is to speak and talk and act like an american. And you know and that is what started my journey in america. I was a it was a tough beginning. My second job was in a dental lab. And i was offered the job. My first job i was making 20. 00 a week. And that is how i started. Interviewer what is the benefit of hindsight . Experiences in the war . How has that impacted your life . Jerry well, i lost, of course i lost five years of education. I lost the most important years of my life. When the war broke in 1940, i was 18. The war ended in 1945, i was 23. From 18 to 23, i basically did nothing but hide in a room, run away from the germans, and my entire education was interrupted. When i came to this country, i could not afford to go to school. I had to make a living. I had 5. 00. When i walked into gimbels, i did not take the subway, which at that time was only a nickel. I did not have it. I walked there. Whatever i did, i walked because that 5. 00 was the only thing i had until i got my first paycheck. It had to last. So, my, i had, my education was, you know, in the most important years in anybodys life are really the years when your your College Years where the average person enjoys an dgets what he needs for his future life. I never had that. I basically, i had a high school education. I had one year of college. And that was a Technical College because my father wanted me to become an architect like he was, and i did not want to become an architect, so we settled on engineering school. I went one year to school. That was it. And never was able to really get back to school. Interviewer did your mother come to the United States with you . Jerry yes. My mother came, my mother followed me about four months later. This Troop Carrier that i came unrestricted for men. All i came on was strictly for men. All sailors. My mother came in 1946. And she came by airplane, which was fabulous in those days. And she landed here. Now, my mother was a trained baby nurse from germany. And obviously, she had not worked in oodles of years, because she was raising a family or choose a housewife. When she came here, she went back into nursing and she did private nursing, baby nursing. She worked. She loved it. She loved children. She worked for the assistant secretary general of the united nations. She brought up the children of senator javits. And situations like that. She had, she, my mothers life was very tough, all her life. In 1933, she was married maybe 12, 13 years. From that point on, when she left germany, she was the breadwinner. My father was not allowed. We were allowed to live in holland but he was not allowed to work in holland. So, we rented out rooms and my mother, she was, she worked all her life until the end. Was a tough life. Interviewer you mentioned before that you came to holland because your father had a sister. Did she survive the war . Jerry she did survive the war. Her husband died during the war. Her daughter died during the war. But she survived. And interesting story. However, she was extremely sick. She was, she had cancer. And she had to go to the hospital back and forth for treatment. But there are no ambulances, there are no cars, nothing. But i had a bicycle. So, i put her on the back of my bicycle and i drove her back and forth to the hospital on the back of my bicycle. That is where the bicycle came in. Very, very important. And then she died shortly after the war. Interviewer in the years since the end of the war, you kept in touch with the children of the man you stayed with for two and a half years . Jerry yes. The son, dick, he came to visit us in the United States. And i took him around and so on and so on. The daughter married an episcopal priest or something. They had children and so on. Very, very lovely people, very religious people. Very. Interviewer is there anything else you would like to add . Jerry needless to say, you ask me, you know, needless to say, i just hope that what we have experienced, i just hope that 6 million jews did not die in vain. I just hope so. I hope that the world will have learned something from this experience. Its too difficult, it was too difficult a time. Too many lives were lost. Too many tears were shed. And i just hope that our children and grandchildren and greatgrandchildren will live the kind of life that we hope all of us should have. Interviewer thank you very much. You were watching American History tv. 48 hours of American History programming every week and on cspan3. Follow us on twitter for a schedule of upcoming programs and to keep up with the latest history news. Up next on American History tv, a discussion with world war ii photographer tony vaccaro. He took some 7000 photographs that captured the experiences of combat soldiers. Sometimes processing his film and a helmet and hanging wet negatives from trees. He served with the 83rd infantry division. He landed at normandy six days after dday and stayed on after germanys surrender to photograph the rebuilding of the country. We will hear the stories behind his images. This was hosted by the museum of jewish heritage. Alex i would like to say a few words about tony, just to introduce you to what i would describe as an artist warrior. He is a truly remarkable gentleman. I have met quite a few veterans of world war ii and not many have spent as long in combat as you, sir. Tony served with the 83rd infantry division