To reach its decision, but over time it is accepted as the right principle. The court did the right thing. Thats important. It sets a high bar, High Aspirations for us. And as Justice Marshall said, at so many times were still climbing toward its goals. Jefferson in the declaration of independence promised that all men are created equal, yet he took slaves. The civil war the amendments tried to enshrine that in the constitution, but it took a century after that for brown to make the promise of the declaration of the reconstruction amendments a reality, but we certainly have not come close to achieving that promise for the reasons weve been discussing. Thanks to you for being part of our audience. Our series continues next week with the supreme courts 1961 decision in mapp versus ohio. In that case justices strengthened the Fourth Amendment protection against unreasonable search and seizures. Find out more next monday live at 9 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan, cspan 3, and cspan radio. You can learn more about cspans landmark cases series online. Go to cspan. Org landmarkcases. You can order cspans landmark cases book, featuring background, highlights, and the legal impact of each case written by tony morrow and published by cspan in cooperation with cq press. Landmark cases is available for 8. 95, plus shipping. Coming up here on cspan 3, a conference from the Technology Policy institute. First a conversation on technology and entertainment and from the same conference, executives with google and twitter on government regulation. Later a look at Online Privacy with former officials with the justice department, homeland security, and amazon. The Technology Policy institute is a think tank that looks for free market approaches to technology and communications policy. The groups annual forum in aspen this year focused on government regulation. This discussion with executives from spotify and the independent film and Television Alliance is on innovation in entertainment and the creative industry. All right. Well get started with the last panel of the day and of the conference. So technology has effected almost every aspect of the entertainment industries. Its reduced costs to produce some kind of content and introduced new Distribution Channels as we heard some of that last night. While much discussion is focused on the extent to new distribution methods might display ndi that might not have succeeded on other platforms. Artists have the ability to select to pull work from particular platforms. To discuss these, we have a good panel. We have michael herring, who is cfo at pandora, laura martin, jean pruitt, Mark Silverstein at spotify, and well start with mike because he is just about to release a new book on many of these issues. So i would like to hear your take to start us off. Thanks. So i wanted to start by saying i asked scott if i could go first because i have an awkward and somewhat embarrassing confession to make. I figured this is the Perfect Place to do it because were all friends here. It is not like this is being recorded or anything, but the awkward confession is can be summed up in three words and that is i dont know. And the reason thats awkward as an academic is im trained to know. Im trained to ask questions, go out and get data, and come back and say the answer is 17. 3 plus or minus 2. 5. And weve been doing that with some great partners in the Publishing Industry and the Motion Picture industry on things like how much Consumer Value is created when consumers can access all 3 million books in print as opposed to the 100,000 books in a typical bookstore or does unbundling of singles hurt overall music sales or can you use site blocking in the u. K. To change Consumer Behavior around piracy. Ironically, the answer to all these questions is 17. 2 plus or minus 2. 5. My main coauthor and i started to ask a bigger question, which is could technological change change the market power in these industries. And just first blush at this the answer to this question is almost certainly no from a historical perspective. If you look at the history of these industries for the last 100 years, theyve been dominated by a set of three to six really powerful companies who have very strong economies of scale and have maintained their power in spite of massive shifts in the Technologies Associated with creating, distributing, and consuming content. So on the surface of it the answer to this is almost certainly no, that a single technological change like the internet is not going to change power in these industries. Then we started to think whether the internet is a single technological change or is it a series of technological changes where the presence of digital pira piracy, which we have talked about in past tppi conferences, is causing havoc with all the revenue models of these industries and sort of it is possible that the stuff that kelly talked about last night, where were moving from a model where you have a scarce set of broadcast slots and scarcity associated with shelf space to a world where that isnt scarce anymore, where whats scarce is customer attention. And companies that are starting to rise up, get global scale, and starting to collect Customer Data and use that to manage and mediate customer attention. Could that sort of series of changes be enough to change 100 years of structure in this city . And like i say, the correct answer is i dont know, but the longer i look at this the more i start to wonder whether the answer could be yes and whether there might be specific things that people in the industry could do to respond to that as well. And with that, given that my answer is i didnt know i guess the other thing is we were talking this morning with lauren. She said something that i thought was very insightful and kind thats so rare. Im glad youre bringing it up now. Which part . Definitely the kind part. Very rare. As i was moaning about not knowing the answer, she said maybe its best at this point in the industry if we ask the right questions instead of have the right answers to those questions, so i hope thats what we can do on this panel is ask some of these questions and play around with it. Do i have to read all 59,000 words in the upcoming book . No, thats the summary. Part of the thesis is the way that data is changing, the way that data may be changing the business model. So i would like to ask mike with pando pandora how this has begun to change information and analytics might be beginning to change their model. Pandora has given artists and managers data to make decisions. Pandora purchased next big sound, which describes itself as the leading provider of online music, analytics, and insights. Pandora started with the music genome project. It was sort of based on some kind of algorithms from the start. How has big data and all this information affecting the way you look at the business . Well, so pandora is largely known as an Internet Radio service, personalized radio service. And thats how we deliver music to listeners. 80 million listeners a month just in the United States. Weve been doing this now for ten years. The launch of Pandora Radio is next month, the anniversary. People think about us in context of the music genome project. The reality is the 50 billion times in the last ten years the 120 million americans have thumbed up or thumbed down a song whether it fits into these listening preferences. That data has tremendous richness in understanding that person, about their musical preferences. We have combined that with demographic data. We know age, gender, location. How your musical preferences change during the day, if you have a john mayer station and a wiggles situation. You have a kid at home and youre a young mother. Thats a simple example of how all these data points can be pulled together, so pandora is largely a data company. We have massive amounts of data weve been working on for years. When we talk about engagement with listeners, were talking about getting them to listen longer and playing the right music. That engagement has gone from 12, 15 hours per month to 18 hours per user last year. Thats 22 hours per user per month across 80 million. Over 5 billion hours of music streamed every quarter. More media streams than youtube streams in the United States in terms of time. That is interesting from a radio Music Service perspective. That data were starting to really tap into what that potential is. And weve been using it the last two or three years now to target advertising effective. Well do 1. 2 billion in revenue this year. 80 of that is advertising with a small fraction of the ads that traditional radio has. We can play specific ads for people that are catered to them based on their listening preferences and based upon their demonstrate graphi demographics. Now were taking that data and saying how can we apply that to improve the overall Music Industry ecosystem, add to existing revenue streams, but also create new ones. Pandora would like to participate in those revenue stream. Were still a business. Were a public company. I have a i feel we have a duty that we need a healthy ecosystem across the songwriters and the distributors and artists in order for the industry to survive and thrive. Finding that balance is something the industry has been stumbling through the past few years. Using the data to drive ticket sales we sold 10 of all the Rolling Stone tickets for their last tour, which was a massive success. It was touted all over billboard. Pandora did that quiet in a matter of hours, days. Weve been doing Live Streaming promotions that have driven real album purchases. Yes, people actually buy albums and downloads. We take it down to small edm artists like odessa. We identified them through looking through data fluctuat n fluctuations and edm. Better tell them what edm is. Electronic dance music. Its a new jgenre that applies o millennials. Thats what next weeks sound is about. Next weeks sound connects music listening data from a variety of listening services to social data. Whats being talked about in the various social Media Outlets and how is that connected to listening and can you draw connections there to help an artist to promote a new song, to help a label promote a new artist, or to plan a tour or an actual concert event, a festival . Thats the way were thinking about applying data to problem. I wasnt anticipating asking this question. When you said you were responsible for selling 10 of tickets to all Rolling Stones concerts, was that with ticket master or without them . We didnt run the transaction. We promoted it directly. They linked through an ad on our site to the ticket purchaser. It was still ticketmaster, who still has complete control over all ticket sales in the entire world . Yes. One of the problems with things like ticketing is is the profits that are shared back to promotional outlets like pandora are really thin. Were not focused on it as much as a revenue stream today as in understanding the data that can move selling those tickets. All the profi we drive the sellout. We drive the last mile. I think thats where its going to be really interesting from a ticket perspective. Mark, im interested in the same things for spotify, but also spotify has been moving into video. Could you talk about that a little bit . Why the decision to do that when it seems like a pretty crowded market . Sure. Ill get into i think we have a very nuanced approach to video, but ill get there. I think its helpful to take a step back and look at the development of spotify and a lot of what the decisions weve made and how weve gone about what content were providing when has to do exactly with our user data. We, as mike said, look deep into our users data to give them the best experience possible. If you look at the development of spotify over time, it started as we had 25 million tracks and we had the search box. You had to know exactly what you wanted to listen to. Quickly realized thats a daunting task for a lot of people. You know a few artists you want to listen to, but just having an open search box is not the best way to consume music. We started to genres, r b, pop, et cetera, but we always testing different ways of experiencing music, and we found very quickly when we put a genre such as focus next to r b or hiphop or even pop music, we found that more and more people were actually graph taiting to a moment in time or an experience, so folk, studying, sleep, running, and we saw that activity also occurring in our play listing activity, because we have many active users. Some are on our service, veeming music 16 hours per day. Theyre creating play lists and maiming play lists, and what we were finding over time is that people were not creating the 9 os hiphop list, it was my running list, my cooking list. There are moments in time when we can deliver a great music experience to people. And we said, okay, how can we do this . We can curate music. We can have a music programming function. But we can also, are there sirn parts of the day where music is actually not the only thing you want to listen to . So morning commute is one hypothesis ha wothat were test right now. If youre on the subway or in your car, et cetera, maybe you dont want only music. Maybe you want news, weather report, if youre on the subway, not while youre driving, like a clip of jimmy fallon or Something Like that. Theres some other content you want to experience during that time. And thats kind of the hypothesis were testing right now to see if people are interested in experiencing that. Now at core, were a music company. And thats where our best innovations aren hai ehappening. So on the running, weve seen millions and millions if not billions of running play lists. We said to ourselves, look, were a software company. Why does our app always have to look the same for all use cases . So we did some research with olympic runners, and we partnered with nike and saw that, one, people were, like, well, my phones on my shoulder here, your buttons all the way down here, like thats not a good experience. So we created a running experience where we only have three buttons, forward, back and play. On that, and software can adjust that way. But we also did research about do runners perform better if the music, the beats match your feet, right . Thats cool. Thats cool. So it could be every, if youre running at 18 o beats per minute, if the music actually matches that, do you run better . And the answer is both quantitatively and qualitatively yes. And weve found runners like that experience. So weve created a portion of the app that once you set the beats per minute, we only deliver music based on your taste profile that has that beats per minute. But we took that further, because we said wait a second, at the higher beats per minute, there arent enough songs that fit peoples taste profiles, so what can we do . So we worked with a deejay and some orchestras throughout the world where we have created tracks that the beats per minute will move up or down, but the track will stay the same. Okay . So, so if you speed up or slow down or you want to run fast for 20 minutes and run slow, the same track will adjust the beats per minute but otherwise will stay the same. So weve completed a completely new music format, whether this is wildly popular or not remains to be seen. But these are the types of things that we start with our user data and rye to take the innovations as far as possible and running is our first step into that. So that, thats a longwinded explanation on the video part, where i is a small part of our music innovation. Last thing id say, were hyperfocussed on our users and artists and providing artists with opportunities very similar to what pandoras doing to prioritize recorded music as well as other opportunities. So we just worked with country star hunter hayes. And he said to us, help route my tour in the United States. So we did statistical analyses on where he was overindexing these other artists that are similar to him and help him choose College Towns he otherwise would not have picked to go there. And therell be opportunities for his best, his biggest fans in those areas to have meet and greets with him, et cetera, but those are the types of things that we want to use our data, not only to drive users to like but also continue to drive the business for musicians and songwrite songwriters. Gene, mikes ahal sis and also, id say kellys talk last night with the idea of these increasing number of Distribution Channels or implication that there are so many more producers of content now seems to suggest that we should be seeing sort of more independence than ever before. But from what youve said, i dont think, that doesnt seem right, right . I mean, whats your sense of how one goes about sort of producing content, especially video these days . I think you have to lock at what i think now is becoming an increasingly bifurcated or tri fur kated marketplace. The group that im most familiar with and that i actually represent are the professionals. Their product costs at the low end, 1 million or 2 million, at the upper end, 200 million. And they have one set of issues and are under one set of each us as the marketplace evolves. Because the new Online Distribution Services are bringing nothing new to the table. The other set are people who are quite successfully using youtube or other Similar Services to create what we used to always call your calling card. There are always, theres always film. Usually supported on credit cards and your grandfathers pension fund. And the challenge, even once you make it is how do you get people to see it, to recognize your talent and to begin to help you move into the more professional arema. And i think theres no question that between what Technology Gives you today in terms of ease of production and what you can do with the internet an