Years. We have seen there movement diversify and expand in the aftermath of the upheave el in the arab world since 2010. As my college mentioned, isil is just one of the groups that were concerned about. Al qaeda core continues to support attacking the west and for now remains the recognized leader after global jihadist movement. In syria we have seen veteran al qaeda fighters travel from pakistan to take advantage of the permissive environment there. Branches in yemen and somalia continue to remain extremely active. Off course over the past five years, al qaeda sought to take down an airplane bound for the United States and here in the United States last years bombing of the Boston Marathon is a sober reminder of the threat we face from selfdivekted violent extremist. Terrorists skploided the lack of governeance and parts of the middle east. Terrorist groups are inactive in 11 insurgencies in the world. The groups are adapting their tactics to overcome our defenses, they are looking for simpler left sophisticated attacks that are on a smaller scale and that are easier to pull off such as the al shabaab attack last year in nairobi. Finally, with the stolen nsa documents, terrorists are changing how they communicate. They are moving to more secure adaptationes. We see this in our reporting. And this is a problem for us in many areas where we have limited human collection and depend on intercepting communications to identify terrorists and disrupt plots. Members of the committee, to counter this threat, the men and women at nctc remain vigilant around the clock. We are dedicated to working with partners particularly the fbi and dhs to identify these threats, degrade networks and disrupt plots both at home and abroad. We appreciate the continued support and thank you for this opportunity. We look forward to your questions. Thank you, direct popper i recognize myself for questions. We mentioned theres no specific and credible threat to homeland. Having said that, i dont think ii ive seen the threaten environment. Particularly as it exists overseas with the socalled Islamic State in the levant, weve known about this threat for over year. I dont think it was until the beheadings of the journalists and out in british aid worker that it got the attention of the American People as to what kind of evil we are dealing with. And it has changed popular opinion in terms of driving policy to eliminate a threat that they dont want to see here in the United States. Perpetrate those acts of brutal savagery. And at the same time, you have core al qaeda. And alsaturdwazahiri. And up the ante. What better way do that than attack the west. 15,000 foreign fighters. Over a hundred american u. S. Citizens. Many of these fighters have western passports. So the ease of travel going back and forth obviously concerns Homeland Security officials and the Intelligence Community and the fbi. So first i want to congratulate the fbi on the half a dozen or so arrests that have been made, including two in my backyard in austin. Of individuals traveling, wanting to travel to syria, or those who may have come back. Who could have pulled off a terrorist attack. Then you stop that. But at the same time, im concerned about what you dont know what you dont know. And i dont know what our level of confidence is in terms of who is on the ground, both in the United States and in syria, that could then imply future attack on the United States. And so, my question to the panel, we have seen the florida gentleman left florida, went to syria, came back, went back to syria. A suicide bomber. We saw tam lan come back to the United States virtually undefected to pull off an attack. That the kind of profile that im concerned about and want to stop. What assurances can you give this committee that we will be able to stop that type of foreign travel or foreign fighter from coming back in as a trained jihadist and killing americans, director comey . Thank you, mr. Chairman. It is something that the people at this table and thousands of people we represent work on every single day to try to use our human sources, both here and abroad. And our Technical Resources to try and identify those who want to travel. And our First Mission is to identify those and lock them up before they go. And if they go, keep close tabs on them so we know when they are headed back here so we can interdict them overseas, thats our preference, or lock them up when they arrive. There are thousands of ways to get from the United States to syria and tens of thousands of americans who travel for leg legitimate purposes every single day. So finding those people is what we spend time every single day doing. Im not overly confident of the challenge. [ inaudible ] turn your mic. Thank you. The question of our degree of confidence is one that the three of us talk about. And my impression is from the information we know and the systems that we have in place to track those who travel, attempt to travel, to syria, is from that, i think we have a reasonable degree of confidence. Not a high degree of confidence but a reasonable degree of confidence that we know the numbers and we know who is attempting to travel. The fbi has done a very good job of arresting and prosecuting those who are attempting to least country, as you mentioned. And there was another arrest just yesterday. And we are enhancing our ability to share information in the National Security community of the u. S. Government. And with our allies. And were evaluating ways to potentially limit the travel of those who want to leave this country go to syria and pick up the fight. Thats something were in the midst of doing right now. As i think you know claihairman weve been focused on the fighters for some period of months. In february, i said that syria had become a matter of Homeland Security. Principally because of this issue of foreign fighters. So monitoring, interdicting the travel of those who might want to leave this country and go there is an area of top concern right now. I think you are the first one to say syria poses the greatest threat to the homeland, so i appreciate that. Director olsen . Chairman, i would just add that, this is an effort that begins with good intelligence. So that the better intelligence we can get, particularly looking overseas whoot is traveling into syria, who is seeking to leave syria, the better position would be to imply the various multiple players of screening who were able to prevent those travellers from entering into the United States. And as my colleagues have said, we have been focused on this for many, many months. And the area most encouraged by is the level of attention this is getting with our allies and in europe in particular and how closely we have worked with them to share information and their ability to interdict individuals seeking to travel to syria or from syria. In my limited time, i want to hit on the other threat and thats within the homeland, this idea of homegrown violent extremism. Radicallization from win. I know there were many topics on this last congress bp we have known about this one for a while, in spire magazine. Which came out with a recent edition of page after page of thousand make ied explosives. Thousand make bombs. And this from isis, glossy, in english. It is what i call, when i wrote my my wall street june al op ed, what they call jihad cool. They train, recruit and rad dalize americans in the United States. Not only to bring tlem to syria, but also god for bid to pull off an act of terrorism in the United States. After all, they are already here. I know there is a reseptember announcement on this. Can you tell me, both, mr. Secretary and director, what the fbi and Homeland Security is doing to counter, and nctc for that matter, to counter this homegrown violent extremist. Chairman, the department of Homeland Security for some time now has had programs for outreach into communities in the United States that themselves have the capacity to reach those who might turn to violence. We put that into a separate office that reports directly to the deputy secretary and me to enhance its visibility and enhance as a priority. Our outreach people are all over the country in various different programs and i have personally participated in these outreach programs. I did one in suburban chicago earlier this year with a Syrian American community. And im plan doing another one next week in ohio. I agree with you, that with the literature, and the social media, and ive been through it myself. That heightened the risk of domestic based extremism. Because people can learn tools of Mass Violence through literature, like what you just referenced. And so weve got our engagements. Were stepping it up. The attorney general announced earlier this week a Pilot Project focused on three cities, which were all participating in from dhs. Department of justice, fbi. And so, this is a top priority and were very focused on it. Thanks pup director comey . The only thing i would add on that is the fbi, and working with our state and local partners to find these people and lock them up before they can actually harm somebody. So we are trying to make sure that we are touching communities of interest, that we are in an online way seeing whats going on so we can spot folks, assess them, and take them out of action if they really are a threat. But as weve discussed in a country this big and this free, with the material available, it so clael for us. They are very so fistcated in their social media p. It makes it very difficult. I know the fbi is getting addressive trying to spot that activity. Final, director olsen. Just to add, a fundamental tenant of the strategy we all work on together to counter violent extremism, is the neighborhoods and communities at risk, they are in the best position to identify someone on the path to rad dalization. An important part of this is to give them the tools. The information to understand how magazines like the ones you just showed can influence an individual and be able to work with their state and local law enfons forcement community and federal Law Enforcement commune it to intervene when someone is on that path. Thank you. Times expired. I recognize the Ranking Member. Thank you. Secretary johnson, comments made relative to isil making attempts to enter from our southern border, and can you, for the sake of this committee, indicate whether or not there is any evidence that that has occurred or that anyone has been captured, trying to enter our southern border . Congressman, we see no specific intelligence or evidence to suggest at present that isil is attempting to infiltrate this country through our southern border. And im sure my intelligence colleague could add to that. Having said that, we do need to be vigilant. We do need to be aware of the risk of potential infiltration by isil or any other terrorist group and we have tools in place to monitor that and do that. Thank you. Mr. Olsen . Yes. I agree with secretary johnson. There has been a very small number of sympathizers with isil, posted mess edges on social media about this, but weve seen nothing to indicate that there is any sort of operational effort or plot to infiltrate or move operatives from isil through the into the United States through the southern border. Thank you. Director comey, you talked about cybersecurity bein being upon your return, one of the real threats. This committee has on a bipartisan basis, came together and has promoted what we think is one of the solutions to address many of the vulnerabilities that our cyber framework possess. Can you just enlighten the committee a little more on where you see some of those Cyber Threats coming from . Thank you, mr. Thompson. They come from everywhere. It is sort of a i call it an evil layer cake with nation states at the top. Terrorist groups, International Terror syndicates, activists and thugs, criminals, child abusers and pedophiles. Because our entire world is on the internet, im told soon my sneakers will call my refrigerator to tell the refrigerator that i just went for a run. It runs every bad motive and every bad kind of person that you can imagine, thats where the threat is. Thank you. Secretary, as you know, that legislation would have given dhs the resources and authorities that it needs to perfect and protect civilian networks in critical infrastructure. Do you see that type of legislation being important as we look at this vulnerability. Very much so, congressman. And i appreciate and congratulate you and the chairman and other members of the committee for your leadership in this regard. Im aware that bill that came out of the committee passed the full house and i have spoken to your colleagues in the senate about doing the same on the senate side. I believe it is critical. Ive written an op ed recently on the importance of cybersecurity legislation. There is real bipartisan support in the house, in the senate for cybersecurity legislation and i think it is critical to our National Security. Thank you. Mr. Olsen, with respect to violent extremism, a and to the extent that you can give information this this kind of a setting, have you seen any difference in the recruitment and sophistication of isis or isil in comparison to other terrorist groups . I would say what weve seen from isil is a very sophisticated prop began saturday effort. The types of information they put out on the internet and in particular using social media really exceed the types of propaganda that weve seen from other groups. So certainly that effort has been quite sophisticated and extensive. I think we still are it remains to be seen, the impact of that information on potential recruits. The one fact i could point to is the number of foreign fighters. And the significant number of foreign fighters that have traveled to syria. Again, many of those, not all, but many of them joining isils ranks. So from that perspective, it is obviously a concern that the propaganda is having an impact on individuals. With respect to violent extremism and how we countered it, there is something you see allies doing that maybe we should adopt as we look at how we, as a country, addressed that here . We do work in coordination with our allies, particularly the united kingdom, which has a Strong Program of countering violent extremism and we seek to learn from their lessons. Theyve had more experience with it than we have. Our teams, both fbi and dhs interact regularly in particular our uk colleagues to identify ways to improve our efforts in this regard. Thank you. Yield back, mr. Chair. Chair recognizes mr. King. Thank you. Thank you for holding this meeting. This is extremely timely and appropriate. Thank you mr. Olsen for years of service. It has been a privilege to work with you, matt. Thank you for what youve done. Secretary johnson, have you hit the ground running. Thank you for that. And the visits in new york, it is important to remind people even in new york about the constant Terror Threat we face. Director comey, i think you being here shows the sense of cooperation needed among all of the Terrorism Forces in our country. All of you mentioned that it is not just isis but also the whole panel of al qaeda threats we have to face at qap, core al qaeda itself and others. One group, and im only menging this because it was in the media the last few weeks, the khorasan group. Can you tell us anything about that . Specific organizations i think should be left to a classified setting. I understand that. Ranking member thompson asked the question about working with our allies. Director comey, i would ask you, what are the pluses and minuses of Prime Minister camerons proesal that passports be taken away from people of, in particular countries, that travel to syria. In our case, americans traveling to syria, what are your thought from the fbi perspective of taking away the passports. That is a question bet are answered by secretary johnson. But quickly, it is of interest to us. I met with home secretary as i know secretary johnson did from the uk this week to try and understand better how that is working for them. Among the concerns i would have, is what is the due process i would have in the United States. How i do protect sources and methods. How do we use, if at all, classified information to make the showing that would be necessary. Im interested in any tool that might help us identify and incapacitate these people. But i want to understand the details better. Also, if i could ask, what are the advantages of allowing them back in the country and monitoring them to see what they are in contact with . Or is that too risky . No, a case by case basis. And sometimes it makes sense under limited circumstances. Let somebody back in, cover them very closely to see who they connect with. Sometimes it makes sense to have them come back in the country and lock them up right away. So it is hard to say in the abstract. Okay. Secretary . I agree with the fbi director that suspension of passports should be considered on a case by case basis. The state department has the authority to suspend passports. I also know suspension of passports can be done when the situation warrants in a matter of hours or days. It does not necessarily need to be a lengthy process. And i agree given the current environment that we need to seriously consider limiting certain individuals to travel. Either go from one foreign country another. Or from our country another country. Director olsen . I think this was touched on by the chairman. How concerned are you with al qaeda, isis, as far as getting themselves back in the headlines to reestablish themselves as the number one terrorist force that they would to increase chances of an attack upon the homela im very concerned about that. These groups are in attention for fundraising, for recruitment. One way to compete is to show youre the biggest and Baddest Group out there. I think that the environment were in right now shows challenges. I agree with the premise of your question. Secretary olsen . I agree. I think there is a Competition Among the groups. One particular example of this would be the reisnt announcement of al qaeda core. That was announced on social media on says third and it could be viewed as effort by core al qaeda to reassertity supremacy in this global movement. So those sorts of those sorts of efforts can be viewed in the context of what might be an emerging Competition Among groups. Director comey . Mr. King, the logic of it is compelling. Youre not going to be the leader the globein th global striking attention. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you mr. Chairman. Chair recognizes ms. Jackson lee. I too would like to thank the Ranking Member for this hearing and i would also like to thanks each of the presenters, members of the panel for your service to this nation. Having served on this committee from the beginnings of the recovery period, of 9 11 when the select committee on Homeland Security was first formed, to create this department, i know how important the issues that all of you gentlemen are speaking of are to the nation and to the security of america. I think it is important even in this meeting to hold up the constitution, to tell all of those who would have a malicious intent toward the United States is that we will not sacrifice our values, our liberty, our commitment to equality and justice for their terroristic ways. And i thank all of you for recognizing as my Ranking Member indicated, that we are not here to label a faith, islam. Or the muslim people. We are here to ensure the security and safety of the United States of america. I want to first of all say that as i was looking over materials that i think are relevant, i think it is important to note from an article, and i ask for unanimous concept to put into the record an article by william mccant, who indicated that the issue or idea of isil began in 2006, long before president obama or secretary johnson or anyone was in the positions they are in today, and before the american withdraw. And had at that time popular backing. So let me be very clear. I believe our president has been very effective in trying to both down size and bring down the war in iraq and as well address the National Security of the American People. I will not vote for an authorization for war. But we cannot talk about isil without doing something. So i will vote today for ensuring that other fighters in this instance, the free sir yn army is well trained to do the job. That means that we, here in the United States, must be very sure of what were doing to protect the homeland. Mr. Johnson, i would ask, mr. Secretary johnson, i would ask a followup question on my colleague, mr. Thompson. Coming from texas, do you feel that you have sufficient federal resources on the border to, if there was such an intrusion, that your staffing between ice, on the inner side between the border patrol, intelligence, working with your colleagues, do you believe you have the right and necessary resources . We have more resources today than we have at any time previously. Over the last several years we put at the border, particularly southwest border unprecedented level of resources in terms of people, technology, vehicles and other equipment. As you know, im sure congresswoman, app remengs over the last 14 years, have gone down. Theyve gone up there year because of the spike in the Rio Grande Valley secretary poppo s. But we can use more. The bill passed at the Senate Last Year at 744. Thank you. Toward border security. Thank you. I wanted to be clear, if i could, because my time is running, that you do have, i do support that legislation and i would rather have the federal resources than unpaid National Guard that has been put down by the government of the state of texas. Let me quickly ask the question to all of you, we know that weve been hacked. All of us have been hacked. But the question is, are you able to discern the distinct between the identity thief hackers and that of the state hackers coming in as terrorists on the cybersecurity grid . Can you all answer that question . And my last question, so i get it in, so you can answer if if you might, the women of this nation are seemingly targets of recruitment for isil. Women coming from western nations, poor, maybe uneducated, are we having a special target to recognize the concern for those women . And how we would stop that, if all three of you can answer that, id appreciate it. Congressman, let me begin with the question on cyber. As director comey suggested, we have a range of different types of actors and we do a pretty good job of detecting the nature and type of actor for each specific attack. But it is a range from private individuals to others. And i refer to my colleagues. I agree with secretary johnson. Those attribution gets increasingly difficult as the private, the thieves, get increasingly sophisticated and some of their techniques rifle those of nation states. But we do a good job of sorting them out. With respect to recruitment of women, youre absolutely right. There is a targeted effort by isil to atrkt fighters and spois spouses of fighters. They are trying to attract them to come to their socalled calafade, to start families in their warped world. Mr. Olsen . I would only today what director comey said about the recruitment of women. One of the most barbaric thing they have done is the enslavement of young women and girls. It is a huge concern to us. If i may add ms. Jackson lee, you held up the constitution and today is constitution day. Yes, it is. Director of National Intelligence jim clapper yesterday held a swearing in for those of us to reaform our commitment to the constitution with the work force and i think that reflects the commitment within nctc and broader Intelligence Committee to our fidelity to the constitution. And mr. Chairman, thank mr. Olsen for his service and i believe i asked for unanimous consent for this. But i also ask for unanimous consent, which i like to refer to the chairmans review, hr54488, which i would like to put into the record, can which is legislation that is called no fly for foreign fighters. It doesnt tie your hands but it refines the watch lists to make sure that everyone that should be on it, is on it. Particularly since the foreign fighter concept. Is continuing to grow. I ask unanimous consent to introduce that into the record and look forward to discussing that with you gentlemen. Thank you very much. I yield back. Dr. Brown from georgia. Thank you. Mr. Olsen mentioned that roughly a hundred americans have joined isil. Do we know how Many Americans have actually joined isil as well as other terrorist organizations around the world . Any of you can give me a number . I want to be clear about the numbers, if i may, congressman. We estimate over a hundred americans have travelled to syria. To join with extremist groups in syria. So you dont know a number of who actually joined, is that correct . Once in syria, it is difficult to discern what happens there. Do you know who they are that have joined or have travelled to syria or traveled to pakistan or other places around the world . Do we know who those people actually are . With varying degrees, we have specific information about who they are, whether they have travelled to sir whiy they are, whether they have travelled to sir whiria or othe locations. We go back and forth to what peter king was asking about passports. The state department recently said that they are not going to revoke passports on americans, they fly to syria or fly to different places. If we know who those people are, i think it is an outright Security Threat not to revoke their passports. Certainly i believe in due process, i think we can do this. And it is a huge Security Threat to this country, if we dont revoke their passports. We already know that tsa is allowed known terrorist they are on the no fly list. That present a huge Security Threat to america. Next yes, if all three of you, is that weve got cities and now state of california that have declared themselves as being sanctuaries for illegal entrance into the country. Do you all see this kind of6nan philosophy of cities or state being a Security Risk to our nation . Secretary . I guess i would answer it this way. We have a pretty good ability through Law Enforcement, intelligence Homeland Security, means to identify individuals, including undocumented, who are people of suspicion, suspected terrorists, and the fbi proves that time and again. I do think that in any time or situation there are a large people who are undocumented, that there is a risk, it hinders our ability to track those individuals. Which is why, from my Homeland Security perspective, id want to see those people come forward and get on the books so i know who they are. So if with what youre suggesting is that the risk to Homeland Security grows when there are a larger numbers of undocumented people, in any one place, in any crowded area, i cant disagree with that. r we know that weve got porous border, particularly on the southwest. And as secretary describes there, we have others other than mexicans crossing the border that we have apprehended. We dont know how many people have not been app remended. Would you agree with that statement . Yes or no . We generally believe that we have an ability to calculate totality of crossing the border. It is between 70 and 90 . We have a sense for who we didnt get who crossed the border. I apologize for interrupting you. Do we know how many syrians or pakistanians or iranians or somalians or others have crossed the border . . In a broad sense. There is obviously legal people who travel from those countries for legitimate means, lawful means. So i think we have a pretty good sense both through legal minority and apprehensions. I think this increases our Security Threat too because of the terrorists flying into this country with on the visa waiver program. I think we need to look at that. One final thing, some say that with isil and what is going on in syria and iraq are just involved in a local civil war. What would you say to them that this threat poses to our own interest here in this country. If i could get all three of you to respond to that. Ill start. Congressman, i think that isil represents a huge threat to our interest. Represent a potential threat to our Homeland Security. It represent a threat to the stability in the region and represent a threat to the americans in the region and they demonstrate the willingness to kill americans because they are americans. And as the chairman and others have pointed out, they acquired territory. We have to be very concerned any time any terrorist organization acquires territory for training, for launching attacks. We are determined to take the fight to this group. Director comey, would you comment, please . I agree with what secretary johnson said. I wish it wore the case that it were something in a box half way around the world, but its not. Okay. Director olsen . I agree. Secretary johnson would add that understanding within our departments and agencies or within the Intelligence Committee, the nature of the threat the group poses. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, my time is expired. Given the amount of time we have witnesses, i will hold members strictly to the five minutes rule. Next we have mr. Barber, who is not here. So mr. Payne. Who is also where is mr. Payne . Right next to me. You changed seats with Ranking Member. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, you know, recently there have been news reports that have claim ed thousands of foreign students overstayed their visas and disappeared. However, Homeland Security is doing a great job in their own data appears to show that while cases are initially flagged for review, the location of. [y the students was in fact known by dhs field offices. Now it is my understanding that there are many reasons why a record might be flagged as potential overstay. None of which are reasons to expect dangerous activity. For example, dhss own press office state that many cases are closed due to a variety of legal reasons, including student receipt of a green card or departure from the United States. You know, for generations, American Foreign policy leaders have agreed to educational exchanges are one of the most successful Foreign Policy tools. L peace Prize Winners since 1987 have been student educated in the United States. And America Needs friends and understanding around the world more than ever. And educating young people here gives us a great opportunity to develop those ties for future world leaders. Therefore, we need to understand how the department manages the student veisa pr program. Can you discuss what dshs uses to because we want to discern from the real threats by mischaracterizing students. We have to depend on t. O. A very large degree on what universities tell us about whether the individual is still a student. Still seeking an education in this country. As you reference, there have been a number of individuals who have overstayed their student visas. This is something ive looked into, taken a special interest in. I believe there are a number of vulnerabilities in our abiggs to track these individuals that are being addressed. A number of gaps are closed. We looked into the number of those reportedly overstaying visas. We have found a very large fraction have neither been arrest ordered returned to their countries or getting their green cards. There are still open investigations. But i dont have the exact numbers offhand but a very, very large number of those who were initially individuals of concern, we found either or now in compliance or have ret n returned but they are still open investigation on some. I think we are doing a bet are job of tracking individuals and i totally agree with what you said about the importance of student visas and importance of receiving an education. Thank you. I saw a report where they used a number of 60,000 which was absolutely ridiculous and absurd. And you know, it appears that numberers closer to maybe 6,000. Ztp÷ but isis is on top of closing. And narrowing that number consistntly, is that correct . That is correct. Of the 6,000 you referred to, we have found that a large number are either in compliance or have returned or opinion arrested. There is still a number, i dont have the number offhand, but there is still a number offhand that is a fraction of that that are under investigation. But i believe most of them are either in compliance or have been arrested or returned. Thank you. I will yield back. Gentleman from pennsylvania. Thank you, mr. Claireman. Director comey, i appreciate your focus on the interest of technology. I enjoyed your anecdote of the fact that your sneakers may tell your refrigerator that you went for a run. I know you appreciate your same sneakers could tell your wife you went to the refrigerator. But i do appreciate your leadership on the on the technology front. Im struck by your concept, your observation after ten years, you are seeing the dramatic change and metastasize you see in the cyber domain and we see the fifth dimension of warfare in the cyber capacity. One of our former colleagues, lee hamilton, who observed the same phenomenon from our time together in 2001, came back and testified earlier in the week that he sees the cyber threat as even greater than the collective threat currently coming from isil. So you know, we know about the use of radicalization and recruitment done. We have seen more sophisticated attackes from iranians, tied to denial of service from our banks. Criminal gangs use the internet for creation of ways in which they can do things like extortion and raise revenues. Im also genuinely concerned about the ability to purchase expertise out there in the worldwide domain from people that may not be directly associate but can be hired to conduct activities. And of course, some concerns that even a certain point the kind of Islamic Jihad could be tied back to terrorists, transport systems, banks, things of that nature. Looking at specifically at isil, what do you think the cyber dimension is, the cyber threat that isil creates . Thank you. I remember fondly our time working together. Thank you for caring so much about these issues. But i think it trance forms all of the things we are responsible for. I see isil focus on the internet cyber space to recruit. Sort of peer to peer communication to lure people to come and fight for them but also as the chair said, through their very slick propaganda efforts. To energy tize and train would fighters. I know this is something nctc has thought a lot about as well. Have you seen something with regard to the activity that leads to you believe there is growing competency that may have a threat from isil on the cyber domain . It is something we are concerned about. But at this upon the i would characterize it as basically just aspirational in terms of any capability of isil or similar groups to carry out cyber attacks. I think as director comey said, primary concern is the use of the internet to recruit and track followers. Director johnson, or secretary johnson, you may fell comfortable in commenting on that but i want to take my remaining minute to thank you for your leadership and close cooperation with this committee as we have worked to structure new legislation that would enhance the ability for the agencies across the board. To better prepare to be responsive to the growing technological threat. Can you tell me, not just i know you support it, but can you tell me why you believe this legislation is critical to the enhancement of your mission and why it is so critical that we act in a timely fashion on this . Congressman, thank you for your leadership in this area. I think it is critical. There are several reasons why i believe legislation in this area is important. One, to codify the authority of dhs to act in the dot gov world. There is legal uncertainty about our ability to protect the dot gov world. There are statutes that some would interpret to inhibit our ability to protect the dotgov world. So the existing statutory landscape needs clarity in order for us to do our job. We know also in the private sector, there are those concerned about Legal Authority to share information with the government and about their civil liability, if they share information with the government if they act in response to the government. And were also looking to enhance to hire cyber talent. But one of my immediate concerns, which i know youre focused on is clarity in terms of helping us police the dotgot gov world. This is something we have do on a dailydvw basis. We face attacks on a taly basis. Opinion just a cyberSecurity Threat any more. Thank you again for your leadership. And the kind of junction through with which a lot of the activity can take place and how vital it is. Thank you for your leadership. And i yield back. Thank you for your leadership on cyber. Secretary, youre in strong support and administrations support for passage in the senate. We all appreciate that as well. Chair recognizes mr. Higgins. Thank you. Firstly on the isil numbers, about five weeks ago, a published reports, estimated to be between 7 and 11,000 isis fighters. The most recent cia report puts that estimate at 31,000. And im just wondering if thats that distinction is a result of bad numbers analysis or rapid recruitment, success, on the part of isa . Yes, congressman. So the Current Assessment is that the strength is anywhere between 20,000 and approximately 31,000, 31,500. That obviously demonstrates what we are talking about is an approximation with a wide range. We have limited intelligence on this question. Thats by virtue of the fact that our ability to collect on this question is limited in syria and in iraq. But the increase in that number does also reflect some of the recent gains that the group made through battlefield success and recruitment efforts particularly in iraq. So it is both, the change reflects our limited intelligence collection but also the gain the groups made more recently. Since commencement of air strikes, have the numbers dropped . Have the increases been reduced . Because i think part of the military strategy there, is to stop the isis momentum. Because that, more than anything else, is probably the most potent recruitment advantage that isis has. What weve seen certainly is that air strikes have had an impact on the military momentum of isil. So it had an impact on the battlefield. I think it is too soon to tell how those strikes will affect the overall numbers of isil fighters or their ability to attract people to join the ranks. So estimate of future recruitment is openended and unknown . Thats right. How it will look in a year or more from now is, at this point, a question that we dont let me talk about that question. It is hard know where this is going because nobody saw it coming. If we saw it coming, we potentially could have acted earlier to hold its progress. And we know that 15,000 foreign fighters traveling to syria, 2,000 of which are from europe and the United States, begins to bring this closer to home. You know, isa is younger than al qaeda. More aggressive. More brute ylal. Better at raising money. More technologically sophisticat sophisticated. My district alone, last year there was a terror plot toborough up a passenger train that was thwarted, that was going through niagara falls. Two individuals were indicted and thought to have al qaeda affiliation. In 2006, six homegrown terrorists were convicted of providing Material Support to al qaeda after having travelled to afghanistan and participated in al qaeda training camps. And just yesterday, in rochester, new york, about 50 miles from my district, a man was indicted for attempting to provide Material Support to isa. Attempting to kill u. S. Soldiers and for women of firearms and silencers. I think its people shouldnt be alarmed, but i think that the growth of isa, our inability to come up we have a strategy that is not foolproof. It depend on people who, we have not demonstrated any confidence on before the free syrian army, and all of the thousands of militias that make that up, this is a major concern. And i saw it in the secretaries statement, you know, five things that the department of Homeland Security is doing including aviation safety and a number of other things pap and thats fine. But i think that threat of isa to the American Homeland is much more existential that we are willing to acknowledge. The idea is not to alarm anybody but to prepare for what is a very, very serious situation that is metastasizing in that part of the world. They wont stop in east rn sir why or northwest iraq. They have a goal and it is very specifically defined. The borders in that part of the world, these people have no appreciation for historically, because they had nothing do with it. They looking to upend the entire middle eastern region. And wanting to claim it for themselves. I yield back. Gentlemans time is expired. Mr. Duncan is recognized. Thank you mr. Chairman. I want to thank the gentleman, mr. Higgins, for his comments as well. Thank you, gentlemen, for your Service Tower nation. Have you an immense challenge ahead of you. We all recognize that and support it where we can. Having a dialogue about the Global Threats about safety and security is very important, not just for lawmakers and policy makers, but also for the American People. I want fto comment, secretary johnson, that you use a Broad Spectrum and whether it is broad flo idea who is in our country or what their intent is. One side of a political spectrum want to paint a rosey picture that we have a secure border. But the fact is, americans realize that we dont. And we also, i think americans are counting on us in this arena to transcend politics and work to keep the bad out of our country and to work to keep another 9 11 from happening. They expect you guys to transcend politics and focus on keeping us safe. I grew up in the cold war. At that time we were, as a nation, tracking Troop Movement of soviets, surface and sub surface ships and where they may be across the country, across the globe. Now we are tracking individuals. Foreign fighters who may have left our country to syria to fight jihad who may be radicalized and may have the ability to come here. In june, i was in brussells. Before we got brussells, a foreign fighter traveled to syria, was radicalized. Made his way through turkey and germany. Germany knew about this individual. Failed to let the belgiums know. He went into brussells and shot up a museum. At least three maybe four individuals lost their lives. He was caught at a bus stop with the very7gq weapons he used to commit the crime. Germany knew but failed to share that information. We rely on information sharing a wz he try to track individuals. As they travel around the globe, an immense challenge. We talked earlier or heard earlier about the hundred or so americans that have gone to fight with isis. But we all have somaliamericanes who travelled to fight with al shabaab. This is unclassified now, internal memo from fbi. On june 13, a violent criminal threat section sent out a request for Mission Creep by other federal Law Enforcement and the traditional fbi lanes. And goes on to talk about Homeland Security investigations is an issue and an Alarming Number of field offices. I appreciate the director of fbi saying that thats really not an issue. But what i want to point out is, dhs is stood up in 2003 to recognize, or after recognizing the stove pipe of information. The walls are barriers of sharing information between agencies, that possibly could have thwarted the 9 11 hijackings. Earlier about germany letting belgium know about a traveler through their country that killed folks at a jewish museum. We cannot afford to have these type of turf wars between agencies charged with keeping us safe. So how, director, how do you combat that . How do you keep that Mission Creep issue from becoming an issue . And i would love to hear from secretary johnson on how he feels about that. Thank you, mr. Duncan. But talking about it constantly, that report made my head explode so i shared that head explosion with every leader in the fbi to let them know how i think about it. Which is that fbi does nothing alone. To be effective in protecting the American People across all of our responsibilities we need the partnerships you see visually represented by the two of us sitting together. There is no other way do it. The american taxpayers should have no patience for turf battles. I got none. I appreciate your communication. Im concerned about communication where the rubber meets the road and thats where the communication needs to happen. If you have turf wars going on, im afraid information may not be shared appropriately. Thats what i meant by talking about it
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