Coming up, American History tv on cspan 3 looks at the dropping of the atomic bomb during world war ii. Next grant weller teaching a class on american and japanese strategies leading up to the dropping of the bomb. Then a debate on president trumans decision to use the atomic bomb. Later president trumans zbroond join survivors of hiroshima and nagasaki to consider the legacy of the atomic bombs. Next u. S. Air force Academy History professor grant weller teaches a class on americas use of the atomic bombs against japan at the end of world war ii and examines japanese social and political attitudes. This is just under an hour. Outside standing. Take yo outstanding. Well finish your survey of the Second World War with ten of the asiapacific war. Before next week launching into a more detailed discussion about the war without mercy. We start off with the surrender ceremony on the 2nd of september, 1945, with the demonstration of air and naval strength that macarthur and others arranged to just drive home to the japanese exactly what had happened here. And also to emphasize to them that the very correct observance of the surrender terms would be in the japanese best interests. On the side is the missouri itself which was the sight of the signing ceremony. Before we get into the lesson per se, which will include the battle of okinawa where we have some marines passing fallen japanese soldiers does anybody have any questions for the material you read today. Yes, sir. My question is more the political how did roosevelt and all the upper leadership in the military justify okinawa when they knew they would drop the bomb in two months. When is the First Successful test of an atomic bomb . July of 1945. When is okinawa . April. So, remember, history has lived forward even though its written backward. In april of 1945 nobody knows for sure if this thing is going to work. And also as well discuss in a little more detail further on, its not really certain what the japanese response to the atomic bomb or atomic bombs is going to be. Is this going a war winner by itself . Most American Leadership doesnt think so. Its a useful tool in that direction but its not necessarily going to win the war by itself. So the american planners, the American Military, Political Leadership are proceeding under the assumption that japan has to be defeated through conventional means and that includes capturing okinawa as an advanced air and Anchorage Air base for the bombing of japan and for the support of the invasion fleet that most americans believe is inevitable. Does that answer your question yes, sir. Very good. Anybody else. You mentioned there were 180,000 civilians perished between the two atomic bombs almost immediately. Do you have numbers of, you know, postwar how many people actually perished from those bombs and what was the actual, total casualty count from those experiences . Im shooting off the top of my head. My best guess or my best recollection is that it more or less doubles when you take into account the people who die of their wounds or that suffer Long Term Disability or injury. Part of the problem of figuring it out exactly is the risk of cancer. The risk of cancer definitely goes up in hiroshima and nagasaki, for that matter in new mexico in nevada where Nuclear Test Sites took place in the United States. But its not a one to one relationship i. E. You go this place, get cancer and die somewhere down the road. Its hard to nail those down exactly but roughly double. Yes. I have a question. Ahha. The fire in tokyo produced massive destruction, 100,000 deaths in tokyo. When truman issued the declaration or the warning on july 26th to the japanese that, you know, massive destruction is forthcoming why dont they take heed of this . Well, great lead into the rest of the class. But the japanese are kind of in an endurance mode, i. E. We can keep taking this until we have the opportunity for the final decisive battle that will inflict enough casualties on the americans that the americans will give up and if not go home they will at least give up and negotiate on terms they find agreeable. They suffered enormous casualties from a Western Point of view they clearly passed the point of no return where they should have long ago surrendered and accepted whatever the americans had to deal out as a better alternative to continuing to suffer the war but the japanese leadership doesnt see it that way yet. Whats the governments approach to arming civilians for the last home defense of japan . I know you say historical but how serious, how convincing was it done by the government . The government was very involved. They deeply believed in this. This program, this idea of civilians fighting to the last, sacrificing their lives. As a way of inflicting enough damage on the americans that the americans would somehow negotiate. How seriously did the japanese civilian population take it . Thats a much more difficult question to answer because, indeed, the war does end before the invasion. So at the time nearly every japanese civilian took it seriously and publicly at least said absolutely were all in for this, this is a great idea. Because to say otherwise would have been disadvantageous if not suicidal. After the war ends many japanese say that was a bad idea i dont think i would have charged an american with a bamboo spear or thrown myself under a tank. At that point the war is over. Its very difficult for us to go back and try to understand what might have really happened if the United States is invaded. Would civilians have fought or not. I think the best answer is some would, some wouldnt but as to whether the some would would have been bigger or smaller than the some wouldnt, its hard to say. Both the japanese high command and the United States did believe, though, that the civilian population would resist and resist violently. Was that a key factor in deciding to drop the nuclear bomb . Its a key factor in all american and ally planning for the invasion and for the defeat of japan. I have a question about if anybodying talked about the surrender of the japanese and it was accepted with no terms or Unconditional Surrender. It mentioned the part about the civilians and how there were gun shots heard all across the country, kind of colorful language. Was that actually really the case like there were mass suicides not mass suicides but several instance of suicides across the country in japan. Many instance insurance of suicide mostly on far of the Japanese Military feeling the emperor coming forward saying we throats war and failed as a nation reflected on them personally and that the only way they could assuage their personal honor was to kill themselves. The reason why it ripples out there, one of the things the bombings have done, severely damaged the japanese communication network. Plus, as were talking about the high level japanese discussions, up until the point where the emperor intervenes the official line is japan is fighting this out to the end. So, the emperors announcement comes as a shock to many people. To had kind of planned out their lives, literally. This is what im going do with the rest of my life. Im going to fight the americans until i die and to have that taken away at that moment was a deep shock , and so a lot of military people respond through suicide. They were accepting Unconditional Surrender why did they leave hirohito in power. The idea of Unconditional Surrender is not that the japanese not that the americans are going to destroy japan or any more than they destroyed germany but japan will not get to negotiate terms. Because the United States, the top leadership had already to some degree decided that keeping hirohito around might be a good idea the occupation planners are saying okay how do we control this country, how do we occupy this country, how do we pacify this country of complete fanatics. Many said we need to keep hirohito around because if he tells the japanese to cooperate with the occupation they will. One condition japanese are putting forward the United States is more than willing to accept, and you will recall looking at the language they are using they are talk past each other in some ways. The japanese dont get an absolute guarantee that hirohito will remain on the throne. The United States isnt willing to say that in so many word but willing to hint at it if thats what it takes to get the japanese to agree to surrender and then hirohitos cooperation is an important part of the occupation. Anybody else . I was reading about the planned invasion, they also mention that some people thought it would be better to use economic strangulation and fire bombing. Was that still under consideration when they were discussing the use of the bomb . Yes. Thats one of the options on table. Ill put a pin in that one because were going discuss that in some detail. But, yes, its still on the table. Good. Anybody else . Okay. Lets go ahead then and press ahead. Weve talked about this all semester what has the japanese strategy been all along for this war . Break the will of the americans. How . Inflicting casualties. The idea is japan is not japan would certainly accept but japan does not realistically expect to win a straight up military victory. Instead by resisting american pressure, by causing american casualties, they will get the United States to the point where the u. S. Will agree to negotiate on terms favorable to the japanese. Specifically the japanese would love to keep some of the conquered territory to keep the resources that they went to war to get in the first place. That strategy is unchanged. But, again, as we saw before and were still seeing, the execution of that strategy is changing. So how did the japanese attempt to execute that strategy at iwo jima . Okay. They dig in how . Massive tunnel system. Yeah. This is a switch from previous island campaigns. The japanese essentially become subterranean on iwo jima. Also they get away with the bomb attacks and gave instructions to resist like down the last man fight until they die type doctrine. Exactly. The idea is to endure, to hold out as long as important, to cause casualties, the specific order is every soldier needs to kill ten americans before he dies. And note that before he dies thats a built in assumption. The defenders of the iwo jima assume they will die. Their job is just to cause as many casualties as possible on the way. Good. How about okinawa . Whats different at okinawa in the execution of this strategy . Okinawa they have a counter attack in a sense pickoff the americans. Yeah. Absolutely. They allow the landing to proceed pretty much unopposed which is completely different than the doctrine that the japanese have been following in the rest of the pacific war. They allow the americans to land, to get well ensconced on okinawa but then they have multiple lines of resistance and use the terrain to great advantage because theres an additional element to the strategy. Not only are the japanese trying to hold out on okinawa and cause as many casualties as to the allied soldiers and marines they incorporated how so using te ing thing the kamik. They will attack the fleet. The longer they hold out the longer the American Fleet has to remain in the waters around okinawa where its an identifiable target. How effective go ahead. Why didnt they have a naval component . Distance. Iwo jima is further away. The japanese dont have much of an effective surface force. They are also suffering from the submarine blockade which has reduced their access to fuel oil. In fact, what is the rest of the Japanese Navy, the remnants of the Japanese Navy do at okinawa . The japanese have one asset left. Anybody remember it . The battleship imato. One of two largest battleships completed. They send it off with only enough fuel to make to it okinawa. It doesnt make it that far. American air cover is far too strong for it but its their lastgasp. They have to have the American Fleet in a place where they knw they can fine it. They dont have enough fuel to sail around the ocean. Also right here that sunk 7 damaged 17, which is obviously pretty significant. Im not sure we can make up for that. Although we did some back and sink the yamato and escort ships as well. Absolutely. The American Navy suffers more deaths at okinawa than they did in their whole previous rest of the pacific war. Now how does that play into the japanese strategy . Got to cause the pain, right . Thats the whole idea. Wear down the american will by causing casualties. Okinawa is almost ideal from the Japanese Point of view. They cause horrific casualties to the American Land forces, the length of the battle forces, American Navy to stay off okinawan waters, especially the kamikazes. But okinawa does fall. And the japanese high command very quickly realizes whats most likely next on the agenda. The invasion of the home islands. So how do they prepare . For this possibility . The japanese are going to provide 1. 7 Million People estimated to defend the islands. Along with whatever area enforcements they have left and pretty much bring everything back to the main land, and pretty much have an allout fight. Hopefully to repel the americans, which really is kind of hopeless at this point. Yeah. Militarily, its a challenge at best. What theyre going to do is, try to bring home as many troops as they can. Remember, throughout the majority of the Asian Pacific war, most japanese soldiers are in china, not on the islands defending against the americans. So theyre doing their best, despite the american submarine and air blockade, to bring troops home from china. To defend the home islands. And as we talked about earlier during the q a, theyre going to arm the civilian population. Or the official policy becomes known, the glorious death of 100 million. The idea that rather than surrender, the japanese are going to fight to the death, as a nation. And this is an illustration of Japanese School girls look to be in the 10 to 12 range, maybe early teens at the latest. Training to resist the american invasion, using bamboo spears. And youll note in the background, youll see a lot of army leadership. This was an official program. This is sponsored by the government. This is required by the government. All right. Is there a way out for japan at this point . As youve already pointed out, their chances of resisting the invasion to actually stop the invasion arent good. So what are the possibilities for getting out of this thing . Talk to the soviets . Talk to the soviets. See if they cant get soviet mediation. Now, the japanese do not understand at this point the agreements that have already been made between the american, british and soviet leaders. At a series of conferences that the soviet union is going to enter the pacific war. The japanese also severely underestimate stalins interest in regaining territory that the japanese took from russia during the rousso japanese war in 1904, 1905. Their thinking is, well, maybe we can come to some kind of balance of power arrangement. If the soviets will prop us up now, theyll help us negotiate our way out of this war with the americans. Then we can maybe help the soviets later on. At least thats what were going to tell them. So the japanese do launch a maybe diplomatic effort to get the soviets to mediate the war. Mediate an end to the war. So why doesnt this work out . [ inaudible ] the soviets see they have more to gain in terms of territory and geopolitical position through entering the war than they do from helping the japanese get out of it. Obviously, weve already had pearl harbor occur. And the death toll through the war thus far was i believe four times that of what it was in europe. From what the book said. So at this point, even if the soviets got involved, i believe that the American People wouldnt be satisfied with anything less than unofficial surrender from the japanese people. Even if you were able to enter those points, these options here, i dont think it was something that could be stopped or mediated peacefully. Yeah. What kind of terms are the americans willing to accept at this point . Nothing Unconditional Surrender. The americans have been saying this all along. The americans have issued clarifications. Essentially saying, when we say Unconditional Surrender, we dont mean were going to enslave the japanese people. Were not going to theres not going to be mass executions or anything like that. What theyre saying when they say Unconditional Surrender is, the japanese are not going to have a voice. The americans will decide whats to be done. The americans plan to be merciful, but this is not going to be a negotiation between equals. This is going to be a relationship between victor and vanquished. What kind of terms were the japanese looking for when they tried to get soviet mediation and push for a negotiated surrender or some sort of negotiation . What are the japanese asking for in their communications to moscow . Was it for [ inaudible ] yes. The personal survival of the emperor and his continuation in power is definitely one of the things on the japanese list. Is it keep keep french in power . Yeah. Theyre looking to keep some of the territory. Probably not all of it. They understand that. Theyre looking to keep at least some of the territory they conquered, because, i mean, that was what the war was all about, right . The ability to control those resources they needed. So looking for some territorial concessions. What else . How about war crimes trials . There will be war crimes trials, but the japanese will conduct them. So it will be the japanese sitting in judgment o