Transcripts For CSPAN3 Holly 20240706

I am a id like to say veteran journalist as opposed to an old journalist. I spent many years in nashville, daily media, the now defunct nashville banner where Michael Mccall toiled at one time and later with the tennessean. You can boo in his if you want, but cannot wont hear you. So i ran off entertainment sections at both newspapers that had a full page of books every week. Those were the days, right . And now thank thankfully for chapter 16 and other we at Washington Post and and so on we can we can so you can you can get a bunch of book reviews lots of places, but they actually have a curated by folks with with a brand you trust is harder to come by a brand thats that much trusted. Is Holly Gleason. To my left whos author of said book. Whats the whats the full prime prime item . Prime preying on prime interviews and encounters and it it dropped just recently, correct . September the september 12th. So thats recent in my world. And well talk all about the genesis of the book and and a lot about john prine because theres nothing more fun than talking about john prine, who has as many prine stories as anyone is my really good friend Dave Hoekstra on my far left. Who came down from chicago and promptly got lost. John from downtown is used to the honky tonks. He didnt have me along to guide him and did not know they had moved the southern festival. Dave and davis. He went to the old library. This is my third library. Library here knew we had so many. Yeah, it is. It is. Missed a couple. Ill get him. Maybe well stop by Lipscomb Library later on near the house. Dave has written a number of spectacular books and still has a vibrant blog space. Whats your whats your blog address . David i know you know Dave Hoekstra dot com easy enough and innovative. Yeah. And i urge you to go particularly there, david. One of his jobs through the years was covering about whatever. If he felt like it at the chicago suntimes and hidden and all the americana. Jimmy buffett of of late john prine of late folks who are household to us were buddies of his both when he was writing about him and when he wasnt so. Lots of stories and we got to get him while we were he can still remember. So i will start out with hal. Tell me the when did you start thinking about writing a prime book . Was it before john passed . When john died . Just figure out i have a long history with john. My. One of my exfiance is comanaged. John and did a lot of the work of building a boy records. So when john passed, i went to sweet 16th make room for anyone from nashville and i said to dan who i called booboo theres the series of books its tracking an artist through their appearances in the media and other places. What do you think . And he said, hell, yeah, im in. Ill help. So you we had had a lot of conversations as john ascended and became this americana elder that he turned into saint prime and is everybody on this panel can tell you john was zesty and funny and work with pranks and not wholly, although he certainly was a brilliant social conscience. So when dan said he was in, i said, well, okay, lets do this now. Thats where the bookstore wrote it. Thank you for. That well touch on on on that in a in a quickly. I neglected to go into Michael Mccall checkered past. He did manage to have me as an editor and survived. Michael for the last many years has been one of the leading lights at the Country Music hall of fame and museum. Hes the guy he interviews. Homeless as well as he can write. And he is a spectacular writer. But michael, im im youve probably told me your origin story on prime but i cant remember if that was on my watch or when did you when you first first time over to a john was either probably german afternoons or maybe a miss love one of the videos oh boy record and 24 started out and i remember talking about starting the label with him because he he used to always say that i just realized one day i go walk out into a field and put my hand on a rock and say, i am a record label. So and he was any any sort of show like for many people on how to be independent and sell your own records. He really thought he would just be a mail order place. It was mainly about live music. He made his money through life. He had never made money selling records. So he thought, well, you know, i got my fans are not a huge number, but theyre very loyal. I think theyre do the mail order thing that always sold stuff well through that. So so that was the original idea. And of course, it grew into much, much more than he expected and became a, i think, a guide for, you know, dozens of other artists as to how to do this and how to do it ethically and how to do it in a way that represents yourself because he would make the funniest, you know, t shirts or hats or anything. Youd come up with all kinds of that that you want to do if youre on a major labels flyswatter. Flyswatter. I do have a flyswatter. Yeah. Now, did did our benita did he contact al or was it vice versa . And how did you manage to get started with thats i mean, john was managed as was Steve Goodman by our oh so ours the manager from the start and when john left asylum he didnt want to go back to the major label grind he had been out shopping and it was considered basically death. You were no longer viable as an artist if you couldnt get a major label deal. And because Steve Goodman had leukemia, he he no label would invest in him and john saw it working for stevie and went, well, its working for him. Why not me . And they went, well, well try it. And johns fans were so loyal they would actually send in checks and say, we dont know when youre going to make a record, but when you do, send it to me. Between the four of us, we probably know at least a thousand artists that have had major record label deals or multiple record label deals and never made a nickel of them. And so that was. And did michael does not underestimate how groundbreaking a business decision this was back in the day. You know so, he went to Ahmet Ertegun office in new york at atlantic and he was pleading his case, you know, because because when ahmed signed him, it kind of promised to a certain amount of stuff and and and then he realized as he was standing there, mick jagger called us in his office and talked about as Rolling Stone record. They had just signed Rolling Stone records. And at some point, ahmed said, you want to go to lunch . I have a rollsroyce outside. Led zeppelin bought me so was so so so john realized okay, this guys not really going to give me a whole lot of money to buy records anymore. So now, david, you go back with the before the first album was after the first album with with john its in the book. I think the first time i talk to those guys was at Chicago First in 1981, as before the suntimes, omar entertainer. I think we did a cover story for the entertainer. Its like a monthly music magazine. As you pointed out, it still exists. Its still fighting the good fight. It goes throughout the state. But anyway, they had me do a story on the 20th anniversary of the town where all those guys kind of started. So yeah, everybodys young back then and we all just sit around and, you know, we talked about how they all met a paul anka stories of kristofferson stuff, and then what was interesting about john, when i got out of the suntimes in 84, that was always the family newspaper for the prine family in chicago. There was the suntimes, which was the working class paper, the blue collar paper, the union, and and tribune was the other paper. Paper, the paper, the republican paper. And and johns father, bill. And they always read the suntimes. So it was like, i remember when johns mother died, called and asked, can we get my moms obit in the chicago suntimes . So that kind of just created this kind of created our our history. And he was always i always found time for me when i want to talk to him, whether he was not real popular or when he became real popular. So he became a good friend, know. And you got to know all the family and all the brothers. And to that point, didnt know doug i knew day. Dave just passed them Days Services his oldest brother who took him to the army took him to the Old Town School folk music on guitar. He just passed away a couple weeks ago. Todays his services and he like 8586 years old, you know. So i got to know dave. I did some interviews with him for a music project. I was involved with up in chicago with the lincoln museum. And then of course i know. Billy yeah, and billys now, if you all have seen john and in person, either on stage or around about either before or after, kind of altering surgery, when he had the cancer, billy doesnt look at all like i wouldnt know he was related. Yeah, hes billys, what, 65 now . Billys big guy, because, you know, billy, he lives here. Yeah, hes long Time Nashville and its kind of how it works now, how i know i dont know if i remember you first from from as a writer, as a publicist, because youve been on both both ends of that. And i was always on the back. And just your kitchen some way, shape or form, was it was it was trying to type of artist it needed to be pitched or did people get what the prime is all about. Theres this again with the ascendancy americana ascendance everyone thinks oh rock star john prine, grammy hall of fame, Austin City Limits hall of fame. But. I first interviewed him when i was 20. I and i was playing a show at a Movie Theater in palm beach county, florida. I was at the miami herald. And the fact that i wanted to interview him was a really big deal because those tickets sales were how he funded his life. They had people like dave, like michael, like Robert Hilburn at the l. A. Times, who were big fans and were for the most part, always are. If you if you get the book, youll see the dedication is to cupid and boo boo, who opened all the window eyes and most of the doors and john was cupid and Diana Einstein was was bobo. I was sitting in the office on wilshire boulevard when bob hilburn heard german afternoons and completely sloughed it off like one of their aces in the holes like no new ground traveled. Yeah. And that was that a battle for him for many, many years when he did the to how he epstein records. Yeah they hired georgetown singer who had been the elektra publicist in new york for about ten years. He had really good success. But it was Howie Epstein with bruce springsteen. Tom petty and bonnie raitt on the record when john had cancer and he did the duets record with the girls. The first one down on stan showed up at my door and said, you know, we want to hire you to do the record and. I can tell you, people did not get it, didnt really care in and it was a certain amount of deal understand and everybody on this panel has been pitched by me you see the trauma on their faces because its a ptsd all wear off eventually like this. I dont think in this lifetime because you have to be a righteous warrior for people and as john proved, it also catches up to you like if youre genuinely great and youre great over and over and over and you stay on the game and you dont give up, you do get your flowers. But we knew him as as youve mentioned, its a big deal. The book that hes a neighborhood guy. A Community Guy that if you wanted to see john prine, youve either went to melrose billiards because they had the only Snooker Table in town and he played snooker, which is pockets and and also one of the many folks who went to browns diner for for burger and at the bar at the rich, the og browns diner, not the patio and not the not the mushy bar and all that sort of stuff. They have high end buns now, which completely changes the thing. It used to be that they used to just walk across the street right to kroger and get get the bonds. But theyre theyre much better that way. And you should about the next time youre there, because i do. And then lastly, any meat and three in town, if it was meatloaf day, which i play arnold here so yeah arnolds for sure but but he but he went Wendell Smith is another and theres theres not all that much left in over meatloaf day was it. Every one of them there is. Yeah. Yeah. And thats, thats where he went because and fionas probably like my wife and theyve theyd know each other is that theyre not going to cook meatloaf at home and particularly not for me right so i want to get actually home cooking what i grew up with im from the midwest and you know as as as a as are the bryans and Dave Michaels in arkansas. Boy, originally. So you dont count gary, indiana, too, before gary any more, though i had forgotten that. Yeah, because thats not john. Because john knew what gary, indiana meant. Because he was chicago. Yeah. So youre youre like youre like your mate in three in home cooking. Yeah, it is a reminder that john is it was. One of the many connections that midwest and the south east have. All the memories are from kentucky and and youd see that with Dan Fogelberg was was quite a bit older than than i but he was a legend on champaign campus where i went to college and as dad really was a leader of the band at a high school in peoria, illinois, where hes from so dave, talk about that on on how how the the Chicago Movement affected. Not just american pop rock music but National Asheville in particular of the connections. Well, chicago was a strong i kind of grew up at the tail end of that. It was a strong the folk singer songwriter thing was a very strong thing. And i graduated high school in 73 and it was just there was a slew of live music clubs on lincoln avenue. Goodman campus went their own club called somebody elses troubles. And there was orphans. There was austins the holston brothers. Songwriters had their own places and stuff. It was a very, very, very, very a peg, peg that might be a little bit for me. There was a really, really tight community. I remember going in high school. They had every summer they had a folk festival at ravinia. All those guys would play at be prime goodman clock, bill quitman. I dont want bill still around and hes making music anymore. There was a band called wilderness road anyway. They all supported each other and they were all, you know, they were the two club owners, earl from the earl of old town, earl pocket a total character, you know, just and then Richard Harding for the quiet night. You know, buffett comes into play a little bit because buffett, i think, always kind of looked at what was going on. That earl, he kind of wanted to be part of that scene. You never could quite you know, like crack. He was a quiet, nice guy. That was the first place to play in chicago. But but, you know, goodman always held court at the earl on them on new years eve. Im on youre bette midler came down and sang with him. So it was it was a really supportive and tight community. I think about that coming down here it doesnt really exist anymore. You know, theres not really a strong i mean, theres a alt country scene like places, like the hideout and things like that. But the singer songwriter thing was really tight. There were people who came to chicago because of prime goodman. And that scene. Did you know Michael Mcdermott grew up in the suburbs, but he was part of it. Mike jordan, who passed away but played brians backup bands. He played guy. Yeah, yeah. He came up. So it was a it was a really strong scene. You know, i think john might have been one of the first ones to come down to nashville. I remember when he left chicago for nashvilles like, oh, you know, whats whats going on . You know . Yeah, well, its the same goodman went to l. A. Yeah, yeah so this all predated. I made amy kurland of the renowned owner of the bluebird and start that whole until the early eighties so that not that we didnt have songwriters here for forever. I mean i Hank Williams being senior being among them but it was hard to see him play, but it was hard to see him play. And particularly the once, once amy used to be band, you would they would have more bands a bluebird than the end the round started with a no block and im skyler and Overstreet Overstreet and a forget the fourth may have been schlitz mama i cant remember nothin i can think it was named jelly roll after that jelly roll johnson now so. Was our guy though. Tom schuyler yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Skyler so, but there was kind of a scene in bishops pub. There was a scene, a bishops club, and that was, that was more. Roseanne i think, guys were running first. They were not bluebird if i if that was pretty pub predates all of the rodney stuff. Yeah it was when he first got before he was even writing for jerry reed. Yeah. They would, he probably would have gone to bishops pub or there was a, theres long defunct bar and greenhills. Again, ive only been here since 79 so i cant, i cant speak intelligently about that stuff. I do tell every, i actually give tourists my, my, my Business Card and say text me, dont call but dont go any place but roberts unless you call. And go in the back door because thats where the townees go in the back door between the ryman and. So my my little and i still went for a check from the cbc, not, not reach me yet. You guys i got a question. You guys better than i do, but thats a couple of times i went over to cowboy jacks and, you know, i would talk to john about jack clement and the home and ben keith, that whole thing. I think, you know, john really bought into that. You played no more about that than i do. But that really that was a real big door for him. Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, cowboy jack command had a studio at home and it was a congregation place. So people on belmont boulevard, not just down from where you join us. Yeah. You want to go see it . Had its a private home his sister still lives there and he kind of ran it. Not quite as a commune but if you came to town, you could record there. And when john started coming down here, he was friends with the everly brothers. He fell into cowboy jacks clutches. Jim rooney, and they ended up making the german both the german afternoons and the endless records. And these guys are crazy and the best. In a gaslight. Yeah, yeah. I just rooneys regulars and yeah they are indeed a regular and brian was a rooneys a regular they played third and lindsley every often so please go i cant pass the who has retired a gazillion times and i cant this going to be the last time rooney is a regular play, but eclectic doesnt even do it justice. These are these are unique voices and when you see them together as unique voices and cowboy for ben. Oh really . Under, i think an underrated songwriter self and musician oh really had an ear. I mean it was yeah hes the guy in the booth with in in memphis when when jerry lee walked in. Yeah i forget where on records. Yeah. Where was the where was the big man at the time. Well i was, i was, i was cowboy in church, his, he was running this the store that day. Yeah. Yeah. Phillips it was also when. Phillips he was gone. Yeah. Phillips has gone there. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, danny, you could walk in the cowboys and johnny cash might be there or might be townes van zandt, or it might be pat mcloughlin. You know, who was ives. And he welcomed them all equally. And in the book, we have two scripts from mike leonard, whos an Emmy Award Winning today show producer. The day they follow john around, they walked in and the carter was upstairs singing. And, you know, youre with this. Oh, that would have been 85. So, you know, just the carter family, no problem. And and jack kind of ran it like a clubhouse. Yeah. So it was a creative space. And he also, i think, found a lot of the pickers and the musicians. Hes from kentucky. The family is really from muhlenberg. So he got his soul food on, if you will. He was a big. They say that when he was in school. And you may know the story, they asked everyone to say what nationality im my parents were from france from and john goes im 100 kentuckian. Yeah. So, you know, i think that also felt really. Jack was also known to have the drink before known have been told that if you get a call from jack at 10 00 in the morning, you were buckle up buttercup, because it was going to be a going to be a they with with cowboy. But i spectacular things happened we mentioned that mcglothlin david i know youre youre tied with pat and i try to see him every time is and he was really the last he cowrote yeah last couple albums tell me about well you guys all know him too, but hes just so humble, you know . But you can really in those last couple of albums, you can really he had such a knack as such an act for melody. You just hear melody lines in there. I think they made a it made a great team, you know, he also liked meatloaf. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But he would pop up. The last time i saw ryan was at the mclaughlin, his Christmas Show at third, just right before the pandemic. Sort of been tonight. Yeah, yeah. Oh, i can show it to you on my phone, see a little bit of it. But yeah, classic guy holly is it was was there pressure on you . I know youve written this is your third book and youve written count i dont know you count your stories. Many stories. Have you written in your lifetime . No earthly idea. No earthly idea any more than these two . No now, nor nor would i. Was there more pressure on you to to come through with the goods here, given the familiarity . I think every bryan fan and feels for them and is death was so well documented been one of the first to to go to go with with the band and theyre just so many stories so many stories. Was there an added pressure on this episode really . I think when dan and i had the conversation, are we going to do this . And he said, yes, hed been with johns. 1980 as the young pop and, you know, there were things about john that were important, that they didnt get lost and they were being lost or paved over. So the, the the the bread of the pressure is because of the internet. Right. And its so easy to Google Search what you land on may or may not be true may or may not be the essence of what the story is. Its whatever somebody is researching and if researching off google, which isnt very thick, most of the stuff ive written, you cant find on google like i dont exist. Im a very minor writer and you guys remember, in the eighties i was everywhere. So that compounds the problem a little bit. And then wanting to get right and when your exfiancee both those labels, i wont say hes a taskmaster or maybe like dude really . I think so. And he was he was great at leading to things. Theres was a letter from the editor of hot rod magazine, and dan was like, you have to have that. You have to ill help you hunt the guy down. And in the end, he he had to get the guy to also sign the release country song round up. I was lucky wrote for them rick balsam and hes like, you serious are going to make me go down to the basement. And im like, i seriously going to make you go down to the basement. You know you very well. Yeah, well, i only wrote from four till the magazine out of business, but then he would know that would. Yeah. So you would go down and it was, it was that kind of stuff but it was getting things like country song round up that were important to him. He was so proud. He was in the oldest Country Music that there was. He, he was the first songwriter to read it. The library of congress, the us poet laureate asked him to do that. Hunting down John Mellencamp for his lyrical achievement award. All of those things might not have, you know, a traditional well, were going to do a compendium of interview there you go. But the smart thing you did was through time, john interviews. So john talking people are people writing about time. John a particular time. So as opposed to going back to doing it. But i got biography and so researching and finding those places heres heres a whole story an article on john from this era heres another on this heres now this era. So you get his words, his reflections or somebody elses writing about him at that particular time in his life. So its a good way to kind of trace how john evolved and then some, you know, some of the best things that robert crosby, Robert Hilburn, chris gal, you know, some of the bigger writers thats turtles in there, right . Thats true. Yeah. So on the first two pieces are studs terkels with him as his first album is coming out and, the roger ebert review that basically launched his career in chicago. Thats how we start and i learned a lot about negotiating with big corporations and its even worse than we think. So if you go well i know Rolling Stone wrote about him, why are they in there . Its because at a point its me versus your lawyers and the one lawyer rabbit hole. I think we ended up with seven lawyers involved. All told, there is a chunk of the script daddy in them, which Billy Bob Thornton wrote shortly after john had had his throat cancer and. He created this is character based his uncle, but also based on johns heart and he said, of course you can have it, holly. No problem. And then the doing my legal clearances said, lets just be. And then it went to one lawyer and to another lawyer. Then it got hung up in a Harvey Weinstein settlement, sell off and literally we got the permission. And i think a day before they started running the book. Wow. So david, you were a colleague of of eberts and knew him well. Did you ever talk to . And at the end, we never really talked about that. But again, roger was just walking by that club. You know . Yeah, he went in for a drink. And i hear this guy, the music, you know, john was john was a mailman. And westchester, which is where ironically, where i live now, westchester was about 12 miles outside of the city and just south of maywood, where the family you know, dave, i think im dave prine a lot. I mean, dave prine stayed maywood his entire. Yeah and maywood changed you know maybe went from a white thing a predominately black muni fred hampton from may when last time i saw dave just a couple months ago. And they were very so loyal to maywood. But so yeah, brian was just a mailman who had a few songs hes in that i think was peggy just playing these songs and he would walked in and then he went back and wrote review and he wasnt even a music critic then he just a feature writer. Maybe he started dabbling movies and stuff. Yeah, that was his first break. David has an excellent which was prose an actor now part of the the the this year that just came out about the remaining family owned newspaper was in the country Tennessee Tribune is one of them if you can while rosetta still going but its suntimes as an example we when we worked even though that was our was our Business Partner michael we get to kind of do what we wanted to do. But, you know, thanks again in the book we yeah well but you mention the book please i helped out the thing for free. And so so at least you can make some money off this. But to stay on topic, i remember talking to john about that. I mean, i commend john. You have you have the i you have the eye and the heart and soul of a newspaper reporter. You know, he really he would go for detail he was a champion of the underdog and stuff. And he would always and i think its one of the essays you pick where he one time he talked about doing a playoff the first record, you know with all the characters and that sam stone and all the rest of it. He really did remind me of a newspaper guy, but i think he knew what i was talking about, that they were loyal newspaper rating, family. Yeah, they were. And theres not. Thats i hope not a dying breed. People been writing about the death of newspapers since long before i was started as a journalist 45 years ago. But that tennis the Tennessee Tribune thing i saw at the airport last night gave me goosebumps. And then i said, yeah, yeah. She walks it like she talks to her. But name your book now, not now. Its the beacons in the darkness. Beacons of the darkness. Yeah, yeah. Again, there was not cable, not bad journalism at books. So if you see his name, its worth reading. Yeah. And thats why. Weve got three pieces in here. There. Yeah. And theyre amazing. Michael, whats your favorite brian store . And then well, ill ask each of you and then then well go to questions. Which one of your favorites you dont have to pick them. You know, george is always such a relaxed interview know and my favorite ones like you know when you if you ever made a mistake he had me an advance of a record so i didnt have the credits on it. And i just figured he wrote all the songs and. So so i said, man, that song is great. And he said, yeah, i thought so too. Thats where i recorded, you know, like, like who was the play pigeon . I pigeons. Yeah. Yeah. So its free internet. What the hell . What and he said. He said, he said and he laughed, you know, and got a kick out of it and i picked the one song he didnt write on the album. My favorite, but so. But he did say, you know i think he i think he had listened to a lot of my music because i had and its true, you know, it has a sort of observational very much like a john prine song, you know, which is why i thought it was one. And he said he also was let me off the hook by saying that. But what else . Thats it. Thats how john was. He was just he would yeah, he would hear that if you did something that might have similar thats stupid and you know he would, he would just laugh at it and kind of pull you in and let you off with it, you know, one, but he was also just you never knew where his mind was going to go. And that was the fun part. You know, you can ask him something. We didnt end up his long conversations and, you know, it wasnt like a normal interview. Usually enough. Did five of them with him. I think over the years some of us just nightmare, right holly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dave whats your watch . One of your favorite john stories . Well, i mean, we touched on it. I mean, the down to earth stuff. I mean, we were back there. I think other one at the time when i was at this festival, when it was back, yeah, i was wandering around earth. Yeah, i, i was down here for a book. I did an oral history book on soul food in, the civil rights movement. And we had that same weekend, i believe, and we had little book event at sweats over north national and theres i mean was really rainy and you came but you said you missed it missed him by but it wasnt this is a big crowd for me. You know wasnt really well attended. We had maybe like 15 people there, ten people there. And then here comes john pulling up. You know, it was like it was just really sweet. And he bought it five or six books, you know, he hung around, he ate, you know, billy came up. Yeah, yeah. And it was just the guy was, like, really real. It was just really, really down to earth, you know . He was a great driver and a late model cadillac. Yeah, right. Ill just always remember that he didnt have to do that. And totally surprise me. It was really, really nice. He didnt like the idea of promoting himself, but he like conversations. So yeah, usually when he did interviews it was because he had something he was promoting, but he would never talk about it in a way that most people that you interview do, you know, he didnt he didnt want to talk about the record, you know, might talk about songwriting too much. Hed go into some of the songs a little bit. But, you know, he wanted to shoot the , you know, and and it was always going to interesting. Have a go. So he had a great sense of humor. Yeah, he was very, just very. Yeah. Holly, whats your favorite story that didnt make the book. Oh, well, yeah. So so, john works over time to fix me up with his manager. And then one day, i realized was not an einsteins happily ever after. And im a big that if im not your forever person, i should get through dinner on my own. So you dont miss your boss am so important so dan and i broke up and it was a little bit, you know. What do you mean . Im like, i just. Just trust me. Just trust me. And his. His widow, dan, died as we were finishing the book. I read him the introduction and. But, you know, you become the exwife. Doesnt matter how ladylike you are thumbs down. So i was at College Media journals a big phantasmagoria in new york and john was opening for johnny cash and there were no tickets. And i have no shame. So i go down to soundcheck you dont have any i dog oh oh i have winter coat on but its so cold. Its november, new york and the teamster took pity and the one guy goes but if he doesnt know, you were throwing you out on your. And im like, super, i know. And john walks in and kind of, you know, stomp some stomp. And he goes, i am. I just, i because now im the exwife. And i said, and he goes and he takes me from everybody. He puts his hands on my shoulders and he goes, you know, there were more Holly Gleason and sightings during cma week. There were elvis sightings and. You know who you didnt call uncle johnny and i went, well. And he said, im going to tell you two things and im never going to tell you again. I met your first and it is my problem. He didnt know how to hold on to a girlfriend. So you never not call. And you never think that you are anything but welcome. And what a great starter cry, because thats what john does people. Well you for giving us that didnt make the book well its not that kind of a book. Oh okay well let me explain the book. So prior crime interviews and encounters is life told through various in the media . Gotcha. Its ronnie lundys cookbook. If anybody here likes pork roast single greatest pork roast recipe in the history of pork roast. I used to beg for recipe and i would say, you want a pork roast . Maybe you just come on over, ill cook it for you. And im like, he goes, oh, youre not going to be making that for boys. Im like, oh, god, okay, dad so its that and in the idea was to sort of plump out his horror in a way that all the things that got lost get reanimated. So no, and thats why some of those delicious stories didnt make it. There you go. Questions youre supposed to come up here, but i you if you have a nice, loud voice voice, come up to the mic and. Hello, hey, how i. On the night, john prine died, i started went to bed. I heard the i started to go to bed and and started composing a column had and i would on paper to the tennessean they ran it the next day and one of the things i said is that id taken him on with me on my travels around the world, been in peace corps and i traveled quite a bit in africa, asia, europe wherever, and one thing i noticed is, there were two types of people in the world. One were the people who had never john prine. The others were the ones who loved him because everybody heard him, loved them and as proof of that, number one is, is fanbase. So im five times in concert twice he was the solo chairman of his guitar. He still got five or 6000 people and the other is last year when i was in italy, i was in rome, i was sitting out by the pool and having drinks and i met this irishman and i had my guitar me and he said, well, do you know any john prine . I said, do i know John Prine Prine as saying, im a played for him. A song that was written there in rome. Dear abby. So i think you can ive always wondered it is i mean, with so much love for this guy and such a great fan, why didnt go a little further the Country Music people or why they didnt him a little more. They could have given him a in 1988 they could have given him a song or cma award for best with George Strait took song like you work for country hall of fame that wine was born thank you for your question and and comments. Yeah i cant explain Country Music. I have to say that. But i will say that there are he has had a lot of cuts and they were he made was very influential on all songwriters at least the good ones and and he and john loved the hall of fame he can you donate a lot of stuff he just out and his family just donated his jukebox to his idol two weeks ago of course that 1946 wurlitzer that Steve Goodman gave him because john didnt take credit on. But you never even you never even called him on a name. And the way that couple he us a lot of his archive is a lot of notebooks and things like that that we have hes at least his familys openly saying that you know johns ambition is to be in the Country Music hall of fame. And i would think he deserves it but probably not supposed to say. But but i think hes you know, hes hes just he was so influential on things i think in someone like like clark or john prine that were that writers listen to and all writers are influenced by the you know, the best have recorded his songs you had a guy who was a guy who was one of them. So he you know, i would hope that hes seen as a Country Music. He thought of himself as a Country Music artist. He was pretty open about that and would talk about it just that sometimes what people perceive as Country Music is whats played on the radio. And thats not true. You know, Country Music is much broader than that, just like, you know, mcdonalds doesnt represent good hamburgers so and and the other thing about john in the Country Music establishment. He grew up listening to wsm am and the opry but he was signed by Atlantic Records in new york and all of his major label records were worked as rock records and his airplay. And i think you guys can talk about where youre from, but im from cleveland, ohio. I heard him. I remember that, which was the rock station like that was where it all came from. And i think some of what went on with Country Music at varying points in his career, i dont know that he wanted get tangled up in so and thats why americana was such a brilliant thing and i think it has emerged so powerfully is for those of us who are either to our Country Music or what a lot of us think of as Country Music, they can go do that. There was in the late or early nineties a major label that almost bought a boy, and john went to one event with them and they said, welcome to the family. And he called al bernarda and said, gilda, deal you several million dollar. Yeah. So its a, its a tricky thing and its comes down to semantics and is your Country Music rose country questions are the questions. Hey. Hey, hows it going . I discovered john prine. He passed away. I think a lot of people did. I think thats a great thing. Yeah. So through broken hearts, dirty windows and the tribute albums, i was wondering how you think he would have felt about it. A new age of alternative country singers writing those tributes to him after he passed and he was already know jason isbell and Sturgill Simpson and margo price had all become of his had all written songs with them. Hes kacey musgraves. Hes done tours was a he always was aware good writers and i think good writers are rare of him so i think he very was in touch with what is you know sort of the cutting edge of americana these days and the best parts of it. And he loved getting covered. So it may not all like to all the covers, but he liked other singing your songs, you know, some his son tommy prine is, up and coming artist and headlines, clubs now. So there was always there were music being played by somebody young younger than john certainly the house for a long time. So and you see that he was a like a lot of folks and nashville most most folks in nashville i know and the Country Music business you would never know that alison krauss, for instance, is a stone cold ac dc fan, but shes a stone cold ac dc fan. If you ever get a chance to see her with robert plant, theyve been answered. She sings like was in zeppelin. I mean they didnt remember when john had that label i think he put on a joe tex tex thing on his. Yeah. Which doesnt seem unusual at all. Yeah. Once, once you say that, right. Yeah. But yeah, but we grew up with wls and the chicago area and they played motown, beatles, stones, followed by a handsome cargo ship a rope. There wasnt any there wasnt any delineation. But would it meant much, much in genres . And this was a huge Radio Station in. Your prime didnt get to play that much. Nwa starts here, which is the alternative station he did. It was like maybe on a sunday night or something. Fm t they had the midnight special, so all those guys would get played. That of all the singer songwriters, you know, i think about that i think about the way and tweedy have crossed over the rock world and in john of didnt you know and i think that your point about rock critics is really interesting you know not really paying attention to him. Yeah they couldnt put him on an easy hook. Yeah, right. Yeah. So and i think he sort of lays the way for jeff tweedy. Yeah, right. Yeah. Because in lucinda and and he loved all those artists. If you want to see something really sweet and tender theres a youtube, its john introduces lyle lovett. And when you see the way john talks about lyle, youll understand everything, his heart and how feels about young artists. Great question. Thanks. Weve got time for one one medium sized or two short ones. Well, questions, no questions. No question. Yes, youre good. No tape for cspan. So, yeah, i guess you do have to get it there. Im sorry. I get that. Thats the only time ive ever given bad instruction. Right, michael . Ive never, ever told you to do something that was stupid. And you could blame your editor after. You can always your editor. No complain that we dont have enough time. Im sorry. Okay. Well, i just wondered, you know, on the heels of the question about the newer artists, i wonder who thats, you know, making work today that didnt get a chance to sing. John, who would you have liked to see get a chance to collaborate with . Mr. Hoekstra . I dont know. We begin with you. Besides a dolly parton. The thing about dolly parton, did you think cyrus is obvious and yeah, thats a good one. Lady gaga. I mean, and i just roll down the roll down the list of usual suspects right from no though yeah but no well i consider them to be both. I mean its ageless so i hope we have anybody you maybe a man who would be. No, that would be, i think tyler childers, you know, kentucky thing. Yeah. That would have been somebody think he would have listened to and liked and wanted to write with. And he was good about meeting with young writers and knowing and hanging out with them and, you know, not necessarily to cowrite, but just to kind of hang and just shoot the ball and talk about words, you know, and and and crack. Funny jokes and eat hot dogs. I always loved his duets. If you cant do as with just interplay with with with females was always marvelous and somebody i mean serge rose or somebody was one of my or he loved iris the mans in our song was great she had kind of the oddball i would call irises vocal its an acquired yeah loved her vocals yeah oh yeah yeah but they were so funny those. They of thats so thats a really funny album. Yeah. Oh theres a young woman named morgan wade and if you look at her instagram its dont go by that because she hangs out with the real housewives. But she is an unbeliever affable straight raiser of songwriter and shes good. And her voice has got that very high kind of clear, quavering tone and i shudder to think what kind of trouble have gotten up to. Thats a good one. Yeah, i so too so. Well thank you all. Weve run out of time. Holly gleason. Please buy the book. Shes signing autographs later. I literally going right. Right across across the aisle. Lead Dave Hoekstra over there because hell be lost the second he leaves. Big city boy. And thanks for coming from chicago. Thank you, dave. And michaeland on your screen ir jacob hornberger, his most recent book and, encounter with evil the Abraham Zapruder story. Mr. Hornberger, just as a reminder for those who might not be old enough to remember who was Abraham Zapruder, Abraham Zapruder was a businessman in november of 1963. The month that john kennedy was. He has offices that were located right there in dealey, and he an amateur filmmaker, he took movie pictures of his kids since the time they were growing up. And by this time, they were they were grown. But he decides to go out on that day, november 22nd, 63, to film the motorcade, which the president was traveling down the elm street he deeply admired the president. And so he goes and finds himself a pedestal on whats called the grassy knoll or near the knoll, and he ends up film the assassination of president kennedy. Theres a prudent film weve all heard of this. How many times has that been shown . Tv in its entirety . Oh, boy, i wouldnt have any idea. The first time it was shown was in 1975, which created all kinds of controversy. 12 years after. Thats right. Because it had been kept secret, sequestered for some 12 years. And then heraldo rivera, the Television News reporter, decides he got a bootleg copy of the film and he says, im going to put on national television. He was threatened with a lawsuit. He went ahead anyway and thats what broke the. And since then, i mean, you can see the film on the internet. You can it in oliver stones movie im not sure youre going to see it much on