>> the subcommittee on oversight investigations will come to order. the subcommittee is meeting today to hear testimony on lessons from the field. overcrowding in national parks. >> under committee rule for f, any oralopening statements at this hearing are limited to the chair or ranking minority member. this will allow us to hear from our witnesses sooner. we hope that members keep their schedules. therefore, i ask any other member opening statements be made is part of the hearing record. this is submitted to the clerk by 5 pm today or the close the hearing, whatever comes first. hearing no objection, order. i ask unanimous consent that the following members be permitted to ask questions of witnesses at today's hearing. the member from colorado, the member from american samoa, the member from montana. without objection, the chair may declare a recess subject to the call of the chair. as described in the notice statements and documents -- sorry, asn described in the notice, statements, documents, and motions, they must be submitted to the repository at mail dot house. gov. members present should provide a hard copy for staff to distribute. please note that staff are responsible for their own microphones. as with our in-person meetings, members commuted by staff only to avoid inverted background noise. finally, members experiencing technical problems should inform committee staff immediately. i will now recognize myself for five minutes to make an opening statement. welcome to the final oversight investigation subcommittee hearing of the 117th congress. it has been an honor to service chair and work with ranking member moore. national parks are the nation's treasures. our public lands belong to every american. every american should be able to enjoy the beauty of our parks and public lands. as chair, i made this issue a top priority. the first hearing that i chaired for this subcommittee focused on making our public lands more accessible for people with disabilities. i've fought to increase funding for the every kid outdoors program. it allows every fourth grader in their family to go to our national parks for one year for free. national parks matter a lot to me. i grew up on a farm. for vacation, we often went to national parks. not because they are beautiful and restoring, but because they were affordable. as a mother of three children, parks or a classroom, a playground, and once again a pleased to bond with family. last year, i wanted to go camping to zion with--. i managed to navigate the recreation app. we were lucky enough to reserve a campsite for one night. we found that alternative public land site for other nights. we had a great time camping in exploring in zion. as with many any major attraction, it was pretty crowded. we have lots of traffic. not everyone was able to get to see what they wanted to. i was fortunate there to meet with -- i am glad he is here with us today. monetizing my trips this year, i went to death valley national park, joshua tree, indiana dunes, and -- valley, it made me wonder how our national park system is protecting the resources while making them accessible to this many people as possible. i dove in. some parks are national attractions. for parks like that, overcrowding must be actively managed. there are two basic ways to deal with this. you can get more pie. or you can divide up the pie. to get more power, you developed land. either inside or outside the park. more people can have a place to stay to get around, to hide different trails. however, sometimes you have to divide the pie and allocate access. maybe there is not enough land. maybe the land needs to be preserved. public lands are limited resources. we cannot always just big more pie. there is no one size fits all solution to overcrowding. in some cases, technology is key. in others, acquiring, protecting, and responsibly developing land just outside of the parks as the answer. we had to be careful with the. expanding parks in this ways sometimes go to attract more visitors without relieving overcrowding. in many cases, parks have had success with managing overcrowding. they have done so by working hard to build consensus with friendly groups, local businesses, in gateway community members. one of the reasons i am grateful for this presence is that i saw the approach at work when i took my family to zion. i am also glad to have him here because i wanted to work with my colleagues from utah. i want to showcase the enervation in success that he has in his own backyard. we had a good conversation about this hearing found some common ground. we will not agree on everything. what i strongly believe that there is room for bipartisan solutions here. one thing that i think we can all agree on is that we need to make plans for how they are gonna handle overcrowding. parks have been required by law since 1978 to figure out how many visitors the park can handle. and to make a plan to manage visitation. in preparing for this hearing, i learned very few parks have made these plans. today i hope to learn about why and what barriers parks are facing to do the planning that they need. in preparing for the hearing, i came across a number of causes of -- overcrowding. they are deserving of further oversight. concessions are often overpriced due to local monopolies. the office of management and budget is holding up the budget needed to manage overcrowding. visitors are having difficulty with recreation. gov and the contractor who operates it. solving overcrowding in our national parks also means dealing with these concerns and making sure families are not priced out of our national treasures. there's still work to do today and in the following congress. -- i now turn it over to my colleague from utah, ranking member moore, for his opening statement. >> thank you. today's meetings highlight an important challenge on some of our most highlighted national parks. they are getting rapidly increasing visitation numbers. it is crucial that the national park service gives individual parks the flexibility to respond to the unique set of circumstances that each park is facing. overall, it is encouraging to see more americans in international travelers traveling to see our nations natural beauties. we protect these treasures so that the public can go and enjoy them. our party should resist the temptation to simply no limit the number of visitors who can enter. instead, we should pursue innovative and common sense illusions that address the challenges overcrowding. we should also maintain access to our parks for the greatest number of people. today i am particularly pleased to be joined by hannah downey from the property and environment research center. i look forward to learning more about the different approaches that virus can utilize to disperse visitors within parks and surrounding areas, to the -- pressure points associate with overcrowding. we are capitalizing on ecological developments in public and private partnerships. the parks are handling a rising number of visitors. they will maintain a positive visitor experience will also negating the impacts of overcrowding. additionally, i am interested in discussing the ways that park should engage with local gateway communities. open dialogue with these communities is necessary for implementing effective solutions. we also have the opportunity to lessen the consequences of overcrowding through legislative action. let's talk about the retaining in recruiting employees to work international parks. with appropriate staffing levels, parks are better able to handle an increased number of visitors. one of the issues impacting the ability to obtain and recruit staff. there is the rising cost of housing in the gateway communities. that is why i introduced the lodge act. this legislation would give the national park service the flexibility to enter into partnerships with non federal entities and other federal agencies to develop employee housing. with increased housing options, parks will be able to recruit more employees. that would help to lessen the consequences of overcrowding. we would have longer wait times and garbage accumulation. we could also negate the impact overcrowding by targeting the funding with increased visitors. we want to make sure that the great american outdoors act or funds are targeted again to places with increasing visitors. i look forward to discussing zion national park's maintenance backlog with the superintendent that is joining us today. despite having $58 million deferred maintenance, no project for the national park were included in the national park service fiscal year 2023. of that project list, two of them received legacy restoration funds. that is unfortunate. i am disappointed that national park service director declined -- invitation to attend the hearing. it is our job up here to invite government witnesses. it is their job to be here to testify. we are doing backlog projects in maintaining infrastructure. those are crucial components of combatting consequences of overcrowding. i have significant concerns about how the administrations allocating restoration funds in the process through which means projects are selected. it defied logic determination second most visited park would not receive funds to complete maintenance projects. today's hearings give us an opportunity to discuss innovative solutions to a serious issue. it is my hope that americans will continue to take advantage of the gems within our park system. we can equipped the national parks with the flexibility needed to handle visitors more effectively and efficiently. thank you. i yield back. >> thank you. i would like to turn to our panel -- jeff -- is the superintendent of zion national park for the national park service. let me remind all witnesses that under our committee rule they must limit their statements to five minutes. their entire statement will appear in the hearing record. when you began, the time where it will began. it will turn orange when you have one minute remaining. i recommend that members and witnesses join me remotely. panned the time are certainly visible. it is now the chair's pleasure to recognize mr. bradybaugh to testify. >> chairman porter and ranking member moore, thank you for the opportunity to represent the department's -- the past few years have reminded us how important national parks and public lands are to our overall well-being. we are ensuring the visitors have enjoyable experiences. that has become increasingly challenging. there were 423 units -- national park system. about half of all recreation -- that if the top 25 most visited parks. there is significant congestion seen in most popular destination parks. the national park service is employing a range of strategies to provide a welcoming environment for going and sharing protection for national resources. the national park service is long managed access to areas in the overnight permits. they are working with local partners to develop strategies for sustainable tourism. we have invested in shuttles. blocking is encouraged. as we test new ideas, whose public stakeholder engagement. they are committing to long term implementation. the time victory systems are now in place in a few areas. they proved that -- this is yosemite national park. they addressed specific park. again he insights into how the systems could contribute to the park's long term management ghouls. -- 5 million visitors for the first time in 2021. this is a part of a long range planning. we began issuing permits for one of our most popular trails. this pilot permit program has improved visitor experience playing creasing can congestion. we also tested our system during the height of the pandemic. this maximize visitor access. they accommodated covid limitations. we will use the data collected along with data collected from almost a decade of research to inform potential future management alternatives for zion national park. the national park service also working to improve visitor experience. that includes the mobile app. continued improvements to recreation. gov. in addition to the national park service, we have plan like a park ranger campaign. it supports visitors by devising them to have a backup plan in advance of a reservation and permit. we encourage people to explore lesser known parks. and at the national park service wants visitors to have a great park experience. given the iconic and finite nature these highly valued places, the national park service is collaborating with local communities, businesses, and non profit partners to find solutions for equality and inclusivity of visitor experiences. we want to address congestion and make a tremendous range of benefits that the national parks can provide. thank you again for the opportunity to appear today. i will be happy to answer any questions. >> thank you. i will now recognize members for any questions that they may wish to ask. i remind them that the community rule imposes a five minute limit on questions. i will start by recognizing myself. mr. bradybaugh, there is no one size fits all solution for overcrowding. but there are actions that parks can take. we met when i was visiting zion. you have talked about different kinds of strategies that you have seen used at zion and other parks where you worked to manage the surge of visitors, the threat of overcrowding. in your written testimony, you shared lots of things. what lessons can you offer to this committee and to other park managers and other national parks with zion's experience with increased visitor capacity? >> one of the principal lessons learned was the key to all of our management actions. they want to develop partnerships and work with local communities. we know that visitors don't just come to national parks. they are welcome and into our gateway communities. they attend dismisses. they support an economy in our region. we have non profit partners that assist us in planning. they provide thing that help us. it is really important to engage with the local community. we have the state tourism organizations. >> we need to coordinate both when we are dealing with travel congestion in particular. there are some key things that we look at a developing -- how are people arriving? what are their routes? where the visitors tend to concentrate? we need to understand those visitor patterns. they may be very --, they may be seasonal. it may be affected by how utilize the park is at certain times of day. it is critical to manage the use of zion canyon and the adjacent communities. >> in terms of harnessing in connecting with those local communities, and those gateway communities, and the partners and businesses, we are making a plan to manage visitor use. that is a tool for doing that. can you tell the committee why -- first i want to ask you this, design and have a visitor management plan for the park? >> we are working on the plan as we speak. we have done after several years. the visitor use management plan as a means for us to identify the strategies for managing rigid or use and accidents. we have natural resources as well. we are providing high quality visitor experiences. >> what are the barriers? one of the things that we have learned in preparation for this hearing is that very few national parks have their plans for visitor use management plans completed and in place. what are the barriers to parks in doing this? how can this committee better support parks in getting visitor use management plans made? i think that the process -- i think we have seen this in your career. it can be very useful. there is not a one size fits all solution. this is not something that we can necessarily legislate. what makes it hard to get a visitor use management plan done? why isn't it working out? why don't the other -- they struggle to sometimes get started. >> -- we are trying to think about the process. we were engaged with cooperating agencies. that includes the county commissions. there is the state of utah through their offensive lands tourism in public lands policy. we have a gateway community. this manages a great deal of federal lands. these are important connections. these agencies bring specific expertise. and knowledge and experience to the questions that revolve around crowding parks. as we work on alternatives for the plan, we are considering education. this is how we make target specific investments. and how we need to adjust day-to-day operations. those are some basic elements in a plan. there is also a lot of information that needs to be collected. we have over a decade of research. we know what these patterns are -- i mentioned that earlier. we have to consider that visitors are coming to parks. they are not in a large environment or in a regional setting. there is technical expertise. >> thank you very much. i want to recognize mr. moore for questions. >> thank you. i represent utah. we are very proud of our national parks. we appreciate the work you do. particularly with zion. my questions are all geared towards productivity. i want to discuss a local connection to the local communities, fundings, several other items. our national parks have put our state on the map. i think back to my time as a young boy scout. one of the biggest growing periods for me. i went on a day trip down to zion -- my scoutmasters were terrified. it was pouring rain. it was one of the most memorable experiences of my childhood. i want members of my first district, i want members across the world to experience these great places. we cannot just limit a number of people who get there. we have to embrace how we go about doing this. to your knowledge, what has been your experience? can you expand a little bit on the potential of signage in a park opening up new trails? have you worked on anything on this regard? >> we have opened up some new trails and have some plans. i mentioned earlier that the infrastructure need to be targeted in the areas that are experiencing crowding. we can inadvertently increase crowding. legions are not carefully planned. we considered those small narratives part of our business planning. >> you are supportive of finding new options for expansion of new trails? >> as it relates to our visitor planning and how that interacts with the additions we may have crowding, we might have congestion's and most sorts of things. the trail head,, we can develop additional parking why the trail had. increased parking may exacerbate the issue. we have to think about these things in a broader operational perspective and how the things to fit together. >> i have been around the federal government long enough. it is always easy for the federal government to say that there is a process. there is some red tape and we are trying to cut through it. it frustrates me. local officials and state elected leaders, county commissioners, they are in some of these gateway communities. they have offered to help with parking trailers outside of the park. notably those in zion. these are areas that are often underutilized. adding in bathrooms in camping spaces adjacent to the park. they are often met with polite rejection. they say, there is this process we have to go through. are you engaging with these local leaders to come up with innovative solutions? they are pushing the envelope and thinking outside the box. not just relying on the way that things have always been done. post covid, people are loving the outdoors. we cannot just continue to do things the way that we have always done it. it is going to require folks from inside of the bureaucracy to push on it. are you advocating on behalf of this? >> we are working very closely with our elected officials locally. i'd like to point out, one of the things that we are involved in along with other land managers, we are working with local community leaders and business people and regional rec