Transcripts For CSPAN3 First Ladies Jane Pierce And Harriet Lane 20240621

The train ride was very devastating for the family. An axelrod broke on the train and benny did not survive the crash. She concluded that this was gods judgment. That the loss of percent was gods punishment. The house was too much for her to take care of. I dont think she was interested in housekeeping particularly. She wasnt capable of taking care of a house. Most would regard pierce himself as a failure in the office. She was glad to leave the place. It was probably the unhappiest of all presidencies. Evening and welcome to cspans first lady influence and image. We learn about the final first ladies of the antebellum era. First up, we meet jane pierce whose tenure in the white house was defined by overwhelming loss. By the time she and her husband arrive at executive mansion, they have lost all three of their young sons and she finds herself crippled by grief. For the next 45 minutes, well delve into jane pierce and to help us understand more about this first lady, meet our guest who is the author of a new biography of jane pierce called jane means appleton pierce. good evening and welcome. Set the stage for this conversation, 1852. What are the issues that bring Franklin Pierce to the white house . The situation was dire at that time. Everything was in turmoil. There were problems between the north and the south and the slavery issues and the Democratic Party to which he belonged was split. And there was a situation where they were having to find a nominee for the president ial election but they didnt want anybody from the south obviously because of the slavery situation. Franklin pierce appeared to them to be the best bet as a nominee at that time. And merely because of his reputation as a marvelous racketeer but he had remained popular with the south and it was thought there was a good chance that he would be able to win that nomination. There was a great deal of politicking, i have to say around about that time. But eventually he was nominated at the 48 ballot. That was the situation that he found himself in. Despite the 48 ballots to get him the nomination, he won the white house in an overwhelming landslide. He did, yes. So the pierces came in popular. But tell us about this woman we would describe as a reluctant first lady. Yeah, she was very reluctant. What were her greatest influences . I dont well, if she had any influences, they were negative, i have to say. She came into the white house, she was a 47yearold lady who it is well known hated politics. She was obviously deeply depressed at the death of her last surviving son. Especially under the terrible circumstances in which he died. Her influence within the white house at the time she didnt come to the white house for at least a fortnight after the inauguration. She didnt even attend the inauguration. But when she came she immediately said, i will have mourning bunting around the house. And such was her influence with her husband, that he agreed to it. He accepted that it would only last for a year. In fact, the mourning period lasted for over two years. As far as influencing is concerned, she did manage to influence the powers that be that she needed a new bathroom a new luxurious bathroom on the second floor, where the family lived. So, yes, she influenced that. But as far as any other influencing is concerned, they were all negative. They made the white house a morbid place. A morbid white house at a time when the country is deeply divided. Absolutely. How did this woman who hated politics, with a strong father who was the president of bowden college, a wellknown preacher in his time, she was deeply fundamentalist herself. How did she get matched up with a politician . I dont really know. I think she just fell for each other. My research does tell me that they really did think a lot about each other, opposites attract, i suppose. They were opposite completely and utterly. My theory about her not liking politics is something that happened in her childhood, when she was 17 years old, and she just finished her education. At the school for girls. And she came home much more confident than shed ever been. And shed gone visiting her uncle and aunt in boston at the lawrences with her mother and she was showing a different jane to them. And she was talking to them about a man who should have been made mayor in their town and hadnt been and she just didnt like it. And then she said to her uncle amos, who was very, very important to her, why dont you stand for mayor . I think youd make a very good mayor. Why dont you stand . And the whole family laughed at her and said, how ridiculous. And even her uncle amos laughed at her. And i think, my personal opinion is, that a 17yearold girl is stepping out into the world and using her newfound confidence, was suddenly put down by all these people she loved best in the world, laughing at her, im sure, im not a psychologist obviously, but im sure that that could have had a lasting impression on her and maybe she thought to herself, im never going to talk politics again. Well, before we get to our first video, i want to ask about your own interests in jane pierce. Youre british. How did this most reluctant and shy of first ladies who spent her first two years essentially hibernating in the top floors of the white house, attract your attention . She attracted me because i felt when i first heard about this lady that she was a very selfish person. That she didnt help her husband in any way, shape or form and i thought, there must be a reason behind all this. What on earth is it . I also felt for her because shed lost three of her sons. She was someone i found during my research who was extremely fond of Young Children and she was made to be a mother. And here she was, a mother without a child to love. And that got to me. I decided that id like to know more about this lady, there must be more to her, i thought, than this apparent selfishness that she displayed. Toward her husband and his work. So in the end did you conclude that she was or was not selfish . She was to an extent but they were extenuating circumstances i believe. Well, to learn more about the story of jane pierce, were going to learn more about this tragic death of their third son. The first two died early in life. And then he benny she diluted doted upon. And were going to travel to her sisters home in andover, massachusetts, where we find out about the summer white house and more importantly the death of their beloved son, benny, which takes place as they travel to washington for the inauguration and just a few miles outside of town. This is andover, massachusetts. It was home to john and mary akin. Mary was jane pierces sister. They were very Close Friends throughout life. And mary was there for jane at all of her most important times in her life. Jane and franklin came to andover to visit the family. They came here with their son, benny, to visit the cousins, mary and john had children and franklin and jane became very close and attached to those children after their son passed away. The family stayed at 48 Central Street which is referred to as the summer white house. Its called that because Franklin Pierce would come visit his wife in andover. Jane would stay with her sister, mary, at 48 Central Street, and he would come visit them in the summers in particular. It was believed that the administrative staff stayed just across the road from them. Jane and franklin were staying in andover because there had been a death in the family. Janes uncle, Amos Lawrence had died. So they went to boston to attend that funeral. They returned to andover so they could pack their things and head where they could get ready to move to the white house. Unfortunately, the train ride was very devastating for the family. They were about a mile outside of andover, an axelrod broke on the train and it slipped on an embankment. As i understand it, benny was a child, he was moving about, this was within five minutes of the trade ride beginning, and when the train rolled down he was hit in the back of his head. Very severely. And benny did not survive the crash. The services for benny took place at mary akins house. They went to concord to bury benny but jane did not attend. She was very griefstricken and could not make it to the final procession of the funeral. Jane was very sick most of her life. Shes been referred to as tubercular. She probably died extenuating circumstance, you describe her beloved only surviving child dying right in front of her eyes. Anyone can appreciate how devastating that would be. Yes, indeed. So, how did she take this grief to the white house . How did she approach her responsibilities there . She cast aside her responsibilities, really. But fortunately, franklin had a good secretary and she also had a mentor that was her aunt abigail kent, who took over her duties. The white house was in mourning. We learned how incredibly social washington is. And how politics gets done in social interactions. Yes. So here we have a critical time in the country and a white house in mourning. Does that have a political impact . It would be difficult for Franklin Pierce to romance members of congress, for example, with yes. I was just going to make that point. He had appeared to have great difficulty informing his cabinets, at that time. Perhaps they the attitude within the white house at that time, the fact that he didnt have jane around him to comfort him, as he had done, as she had done in previous problems theyd had together, and also he was mourning deeply, grieving deeply for benny himself. And the feeling is that he didnt get he could not put his whole heart and soul into the job of being president of the United States. And that a lot of people do feel that that delayed the establishment of his cabinet. It happened when he did establish the cabinet, it ran for the whole term which was the first time that a cabinet had run for the whole of the four years. So he did work well in the end by getting the best team together. But its that sort of situation that did upset his way of working. To a large extent. When you read about her religious views, she believed, as i understand it, in a punitive god. Theres retributions for actions. How did she process the death of their child . What do you mean . She did she blame herself or Franklin Pierce for it . How did she put that into perspective . She thought that it was god sort of punishing them for some misdemeanor. I think she did tend to blame franklin in some instance because he had not kept her aware of the circumstances of his nomination. When he did eventually inform her of the nomination, he reassured her that he wouldnt get elected, you know, i wont get elected. And i think she felt that he was being punished through the death of benny and she drew away from him and that made things completely worse. I think that if they had come together during that time and talked it through, they would have saved themselves a lot of unhappiness. And we should tell people that pierce had walked away from politics because of his concerns for jane. He resigned his senate seat. He went back to the family home. And essentially turned down appointments for things. So she felt that he left politics for good. Yes. Except the local politics. She accepted that he needed to continue with his politics and so he did when he went back to New Hampshire. She didnt mind that because she saw him every night. Now, one interesting aspect of this is that she was on the second floor of the family quarters of the white house, but she was trying to seek some understanding of this. I understand that there was a Spiritualist Movement in the United States at the time and she in fact really sought out spiritualists along the way. What can you tell us about that . My understanding is that she did not seek them out, they sought her out. And i am aware from research that the letters shah she wrote the letters that she wrote to benny were not in any way mystical or spiritual. Under the influence of these spiritualists, they were really a way for her to express her great grief and she wrote the letters and i think psychologists would agree with that because they do say if youre grieving or youve got some terrible loss, write it down, you know, and it helps. And it does. Its a proven fact nowadays. I dont know who suggested it to her, if anybody did, that she should write out these thoughts about her sorrow and his passing, but even if she started that herself, it was good because it must have helped her. This is an interactive program. If youve been watching us along the way on the series, you know theres several ways to get involved. You can send us a tweet, make sure you use the firstladies. You can also post a question or comment on our facebook page. We have a conversation already started there. Or you can phone us here are our phone lines. If you live in the eastern or central time zones 2025853880, or out west, 2025853881. Well get for your comments and questions in a minute. Our guests referred to letters written to jane pierces son. Were going to learn about that next. Were going to travel to the New Hampshire Historical Society which holds the papers of the pierce family and see two important letters in understanding of the will the story of jane pierce. This letter was written by benny pierce who was 11 years old. From andover, massachusetts, where he was visiting with his cousins in june of 1852. At the time, Franklin Pierce was nominated for president at Democratic National convention in baltimore. Franklin and his mother had been in boston waiting for news of the nomination. And benny was staying with relatives in andover. Benny, knowing how much his mother disliked politics, wrote in the letter that i hope he wont be elected for i should not like to live in washington and i know you would not like to either. So this is an indication of the problems that Franklin Pierce is going to have with his wife and child as he ran for president in 1852. This is the most famous letter jane pierce wrote. It was written to her dead son. He died in january of 1853 in a train wreck in andover massachusetts. And some time after that she was in her great grief, she sat down and penciled this letter. To her dead son. In which she calls him my precious child. I must write to you although you are never to see it or know it. It wasnt sent anywhere obviously and it survives today. A very poignant letter written by a grieving mother who had lost all of her children. So, you agree with that analysis. That because of the use of pencil in writing the letter, it was really not meant to be published. No, or seen by anybody else. She was just expressing her grief. In general, as you did your research, was she much of a letterwriter . Did you did she write a lot to relatives . She did. But increasingly her writing became worse and worse. And they were hardly legible in the end. But, yes, she was a letter writer, particularly to her mother. And what portrait can you help us understand in reading her letters and doing your research, tell us about her. I thought she was very selfish. She seemed hooked on being ill. And they were never serious illnesses. They were usually colds. And she would have a cold at the drop of a hat, actually. If she didnt want to do anything she would say, im sorry, ive got a cold coming on or i have a cold or im going to have a cold. She didnt like to mix with people and she used her supposed ill health when she didnt want to go and visit them or do anything. She was very fond of her mother and of her sister, mary. But she didnt seem to write very much to her sister, frances, for some reason. Neither did frances write to her. They used to mainly get in touch with her through letters to their mother. Will you tell frances this or dont forget to tell jane that. For some reason there wasnt a Good Relationship as far as letter writing was concerned. But jane why she had this peculiar need to control her family, which is what she was doing, by referring to her decreasing health, i cant fathom. Nobody has been able to fathom that out. Unless it was just a prop that she had, not to do things she didnt want to do. And she simply controlled her family. In every family letter and indeed in letters to friends there was always a concern about jane, how is dear jane, is her cold any better . And but there was never any although she had treatment like blood letting, which was a favorite treatment in those days, there was never any diagnosis made. She lived to quite a good age in her 60s, which was a good age in the 19th century. And it was at that stage where she was diagnosed as a consumptive, but prior to that no diagnosis had been made at all. So the impression i have got of jane is that she used the illness to get her own way. And she was going to have her own way, whatever happened. We have a question from phillip who is watching us in long beach, california. Hi, you are on the air. Welcome. Hi. Good evening, everybody. Thank you very much for putting me on the air. You guys are talking about how gloomy things were in the white house, right . And didnt pierces Vice President die during his administration as well . Yes, rufus king. He died within three months of being elected as Vice President and they didnt have another Vice President appointed after that. So, yes, youre quite right. Which added, may i say, to janes depression. She thought that doom and gloom and death was all around them. She was very unhappy about that. What was she doing on the second floor of the white house all of this time . Could we know . Was she reading . How did she occupy her time . She was very fortunate in that her whole family rallied and much to her husbands pleasure, they did come and see her, they did come and see jane and spend time with her, particularly her sister, marys children, of whom they were both very fond. But franklin hardly went to see her, so he was grateful that the family visited so he didnt have that chore, dare may i say, of having to go and to go into a morbid environment. He had enough to think about. So yes, she wrote letters. She didnt have many friends, unfortunately. But she did have this wonderful family who kept her going and there always seemed to be somebody there. As far as reading, i dont think she did very much which was a shame because she was a very intellectual woman, highly educated. That intellect and that wonderful education seemed wasted in some ways. Next question comes from bonnie who is watching us in cincinnati. Hi, bonnie, youre on the air. Hi. Thank you for taking my call. This is a most intriguing subject. I do collect albums from the 1840s and 1850s of the central United States. And i do own a journal that was written by a Family Member of William Henry harrison. The Harrison Family coming from cincinnati. After his death, frequently the letters that do i have, im not a member of that family, however i do have several of the letters and albums hand written, journals, and frequently similar to mrs. Pierce, in the older women, elders of the family, there is the serious concern and doom and gloom of just in general attitude toward who has deceased, who has succumbed to that. Of course, consumption or tuberculosis as we know was a very common ailment in cincinnati, quite that. And i find that the prompting that she may have had to write about her deceased child may have come on her own. I have seen a new one but do see a letter from mrs. Harrison, the daughterinlaw who went to the white house with William Henry one of her sons did die upon coming home after being shortly in the white house, and she had written a small letter, it is in the papers here in the Historical Society. Thanks. Im going to jump in because we understand that your comment here, which is writing to the deceased relative would have been somewhat common at the time. Yes. Shes made a very good point. A related question from john on facebook, he wants to know, was jane pierce criticized for her connections with spiritualism, even if they may not have been of her own choosing . Not to my knowledge. So, the public was kind of intrigued by spiritualism at this time . She was in the fashion in that regard. I suppose so. But i havent seen any criticism except the only criticism i did find out about was the spiritualists making themselves known to her. She could have done without that. Danville, virginia, hi, c. B. Hi. Just thank you for taking my call. And i had a comment. I was i have a friend that fits in the same mold as jane pierce. We call her a convenient invalid. But i also wanted to comment on the fact that i do arrange for rentals at a local museum and we have a Hospice Group that is going to be having a workshop for walking people through the process of keeping a journal writing to their deceased ones or their Family Members that are in hospice care. So i thought it was kind of interesting, that thats something that was done 150 years ago and people are still doing it today. Thank you so much. Would you agree, the convenient invalid . Yes, that was a very good description. Before we go to our next video, you mentioned that abbey kent means helped out as the official hostess. Who was she . She was, well, she had been a friend of jane. She was of the same generation. Janes uncle married her, so she became her aunt. Thats who she was and they were very close. Host for our next video, well take you to concord, New Hampshire, this time to the pierce map, to see some of her artifacts and learn about her life there and the loss of another one of her sons, franklin robert. Franklin pierce had just finished serving in the congress. He had served two terms in the house and a full term in the senate. He resigned from his seat in the senate a year earlier than his term was up to move back to concord to be with jane and to raise their two children here. This is the only house in concord that they ever owned and they bought that, moved in in late may, 1842. Were in the dining room at the pierce manse. Typically the family would have their main meal at noon time. Jane pierce was a shy, reclusive person. She didnt entertain a lot in her private home. This couch belonged to jane pierce. This is one piece they took to the white house. They had eight rooms that they had to furnish with their personal furniture, and so this was one of the pieces that they took to the white house with them. This table was known in janes sisters family as the white house table. They had to borrow some furniture to take to the white house with them and this was one piece they borrowed from janes sister, mary. They also took the little writing desk and chair that belonged to Franklin Pierce. This room would have been used as the guest room. However, the bed thats in this room is a small bed, and we think this belonged to benny pierce. Its been refinished and lengthened so it fits an adult. This is the master bedroom of the pierce manse and the room franklin and jane would have used. This is the room where their second son frankie died of typhus when he was 4 years old. This was a blow to jane and franklin. He was the apple of their eye, quite an interesting little character, according to her letters. And they were devastated by his death and jane was in mourning quite a long time over frankies death. I think a big house especially with only one child now was too much for jane to take care of. I dont think she was interested in housekeeping particularly. I think she just wasnt capable of taking care of a house. Pierce went off to fight in the mexican war in 1847 and they sold the house when he came back in 1848 and then they lived in a boarding house again in concord and lived in a boarding situation for the rest of their lives. Host we return to washington and the story of the white house because a fairly amazing thing at least to my ears, seemed to happen which is two years into this darkness and mourning and reclusive life on the second floor of the white house, she comes out of it. How did that happen and what was this new jane pierce like . Ann it happened because that was the end of the mourning period. Normally, as i said earlier, it would have been just 12 months mourning but jane being jane she took two years to get over the problem that she had over bennys death. And she wasnt exactly a new jane because she had, in spite of what people had said, she had participated in some of the events within the white house during the first two years. For instance the meetings that the first ladies had every friday, and afternoon tea, i think it was, when people could come in and see her and speak with her, anybody could go, she did attend most of them. And this is evidenced by a man called h. Hoover was the marshall of the District Of Columbia during that time, and he wrote to a mary witten who wrote about the first ladies and lived during the time of jane pierce. And it is evident that she did in fact attend these friday meetings, as much as she could. And sometimes she attended some important dinners that Franklin Pierce had to have. But when the mourning period finished, perhaps it was a relief to her, i dont know, but she did attend more and more and she even attended the president s meetings that he had on a thursday afternoon. So it wasnt a sudden new jane that appeared, it was she just appeared more than she did. Host next is a question from tony in shaker heights, ohio. Hi, tony. Caller yes, hi. Thank you for taking my call. Im curious, i know Franklin Pierce was a good friend of Nathaniel Hawthorne, the writer, and i think hawthorne wrote his campaign biography. Im curious, what was hawthornes relationship with jane pierce . Hawthorne himself could be kind of moody and reclusive as well. Host thanks for the question and timely because certain biographies suggest it was Nathaniel Hawthorne and irena davis well learn about who were two of the very well known characters who helped with her reintroduction to society in washington. Ann yes, yes. She didnt have a fairly Good Relationship with hawthorne really because he didnt like her and he felt that she was holding jane back and he wrote the biography for franklins election and he remarked more than once, i wish we could change his wife. It wasnt a very Good Relationship back. A very Good Relationship that but he never was rude to her. He helped her as much as he could. He took her out on outings during the twoyear mourning period. But he did his best to maintain the relationship simply because he was the wife of one of his best friends. Host as we said earlier, the country was coming apart at the seams, the Republican Party was beginning to emerge in reaction to the politics. We have some of the key events of the Pierce Administration to show you some of the issues the president was grappling with while he had these family issues at home. And they include in 1853, the gadsden purchase, the treaty of kanagawa in 1854 and the canada reciprocity treaty. And the first republican meeting happened in response to the national politics. Its interesting that jane pierce became very involved in the slavery issue and in fact got one of the discussions over the kansasnebraska act became very vocal in advising the president , her husband, the president. Ann what youre referring to is the situation where nancy mason, her aunt, whose husband was dead by then, but he had a relative ive forgotten his name now but she had a relative, he was the leader of the Antislavery Movement in the kansas area. And he had been held in a court and found guilty of a misdemeanor because that was every proslavery area at that time and he was threatening to take this man, robinson, thats his name. Dr. Robinson. And he was threatening to take robinson to court, and if found guilty, which was likely, in that state at that time, he would be hanged. And so nancy had written to jane to make a plea to try and save dr. Robinson from this fate. By then she was beginning to see franklin a little bit more. They met twothree times a day by then and she had an opportunity to speak to him about it. He listened very carefully and then he telegraphed to the appropriate person, and dr. Robinson was freed. That is the incident i know about. I dont know of any other incident where she might have been useful and persuasive with regard to this situation. Host do we know her husband and she had differing views on slavery and abolition. Slavery and abolition . Ann they both were antislavery but he saw the sense of them having slaves in the south. And that was the difference between them. Host let me take a call next from karl in san diego. Hi, karl, youre on. Caller thank you. I read that Franklin Pierce had a drinking problem. I dont know whether it was during his presidency or after or what . But if so, how much of an influence did the loss of his children and his wifes supposed frequent illnesses contribute to the drinking problem, if thats true . Host thank you. Ann well, we cant answer that truly, can we . After he left the senate and came back to live in concord, he gave up alcohol. When he went down to the mexican war, we hear that he probably took to alcohol again. It wasnt a new thing. And franklin always drank and his father had been a tavern keeper. And he spent a lot of time with his father, so thats probably where he took up the drinking habit. After the mexican war, he didnt let jane see him drink but i think he kept on drinking. So i think it got heavier at his most unhappy times. But i dont think that it was as a result particularly of those circumstances. I think hed been drinking anyway. Host this unhappy white house was doomed to be a oneterm pregnancy. One term presidency. Can you tell us any more about why Franklin Pierce left the white house . Ann it was hed signed the kansasnebraska act and that was a very unpopular thing to do. It was he didnt write it douglas drew it up. Host steven a. Douglas. Ann yes steven a. Douglas. , but franklin signed it. If he hadnt have signed it, i dont think he would have lost his popularity because he was still deemed to be a very good politician. But he did that. He shouldnt have done that perhaps. We see that with James Buchanan and steven a. Douglas put their names forward as nominees for the presidency. Which meant that franklin wouldnt have had the 2 3 majority he needed to be renominated, and he knew with the three nominees like that. And on the 17th ballot, James Buchanan won the nomination and election for president. Host next up is mary in louisville, kentucky. Hi, mary. Your question . Caller my question is, my name is mary means, and i believe that jane pierces mothers maiden name was means. And she was born, jane was, in hampton, new jersey. Can tell me if thats where the meanses were from . Ann no, they werent. The means family, to which jane belonged, originated from ireland, i believe, when means i think it was frederick means immigrated to america and alongside him came his son robert means. And robert was a weaver and became quite famous for making very good quality irish cloth. As a result of that, he made a little bit of money and decided that he would set up a business in New Hampshire and just by sheer luck chose earnest and went to New Hampshire and became very rich, very famous as a very good entrepreneur, and thats how thats where that means family came from. Host well, with the loss of the white house for the pierces, how did they spend their post white house years . Ann the First Six Months they stayed with the former secretary of state, and then James Buchanan who liked Franklin Pierce, although he didnt like his politics but he liked him very much, respected him, also felt very sorry for the situation of janes deteriorating illness, so he said would you like to move over to medira, if you do, you can go for six months and you can go. So jane wasnt going to go but her aunt mary decided that she must go. So they got her to go, so off they went to medira and unknown to her and together with sydney webster, they also organized a european trip which happened to take two years. But they first went to medira and left it and jane improved dramatically and even went horse riding and hardly ever had a cold and she for being 85 pounds in weight, rose to 100 pounds in weight, she loved every minute of it and wrote a letter to her sister during that time to say, i cant believe who i was when i was in the white house. Im a completely different person. So thats where they went for the First Six Months. And jane improved tremendously as did franklin because he didnt have the worries of the state. Then they set off on their wonderful european tour. Towards the end of that tour, he started being ill again and she was disappointed. She said it is disappointing after such a long time of being well. When they eventually got back to concord in New Hampshire franklin bought a farm but she became so ill she went to live i with her sister in andover mary, where benny had been taken after the accident, and she died there. Host where was she buried . Shes buried in shes in the i forgot of the cemetery. Host in New Hampshire. We have a video of it right now. The whole family is all together. Ann yes, the whole family is all together. Hoasst well, that ends our story of jane pierce, but as we hear the incoming president buchanan was fond of them, and in our next segment of first ladies, influence and image, were going to learn more about the Buchanan Administration. Were going to introduce you to harriet lane who just at the age of 27 joined her uncle, James Buchanan, who is our only bachelor president , in the white house, to serve as official hostess. She was welleducated and welltraveled and she became a popular figure in an otherwise tenuous time in a country on the brink of civil war and well tell you more about her in this video. Harriet lane is a unique figure. She was 27 years old and the niece of our only bachelor president , James Buchanan. We have a small doll that was not a play thing owned by miss lane but rather created to look like her when she was a first lady. She had been welltrained and learned discretion from her diplomat uncle and one of harriets great admirers was Queen Victoria. This was a gift the queen gave harriet, a beautiful gold bracelet and inside it has her name, harriet lane, and the date of 1857 when she received the gift. The japanese delegation came to the white house in 1860 and they came bearing all types of gifts, beautiful little shoes, paper folded objects, origami, little dictionary. Ms. Lane and her friend found all these things very intriguing. The great social triumph would be the first visit by the prince of wales and future edward vii and harriet presided over that. Shed wear gowns with many ruffles and white berthas at the neck and was known for her low neckline and it wasnt in fashion yet and people copied her. Some of her garments created a bit of a scandal because she was showing a lot of skin. She was young and style issue and stylish and became a celebrity. She was a precursor to the modern first lady. Host to tell us more about harriet lane. We have two women at our table who both have been students of the american first ladies. Meet Heather Schwartz foster. One of her book is called the first ladies, an intimate portrait of the women who shaped america. And ann covella is with us remembering the ladies, a century of u. S. First ladies. we just had a doom and gloom white house and in come the buchanans. What was the atmosphere in the buchanan white house . Feather the atmosphere, the political atmosphere was just terrible. It really was. Buchanan got to be president personally, i think, he had been a contender for about 12 years. He was very well known and had been in politics like 40 years. He was an old man by the time he got to be president. Host careful, how old was he . Feather about 65. So he is definitely an older man. And i think that he got elected president because he had been out of the country for four years during the Pierce Administration, so he didnt get tainted with a lot of the politicking and the ugliness and the divisiveness that had been going on. Host were they looking again for a compromise candidate . Feather they were looking for someone they used the word available a lot. That does not mean he had Nothing Better to do. It meant that he would be acceptable all the way around. Host and what was the spirit of his white house . Even with al feather i think the best way to put it is that politically he was a dud. He ranked as the bottom of the barrel. But socially, he was millions. He was brilliant. But the whole white house, the atmosphere in the white house was brilliant. I dont think there had been anything like it since Dolly Madison. He had a flurry with julia tyler but she was only around for eight months and past that, the white house didnt really sparkle, but under buchanan, it sparkled. Host the woman responsible for coordinating life in the white house was harriet lane. Who was harriet lane . Ann she was the niece of James Buchanan. Shed been orphaned at an early age and he took her under his wing. When her father died, i think he was made it her guardian. Host buchanan was her guardian. Feather both her parents died when she was about 9 or 10 and he was her guardian. Feather he took care of a bunch of nieces and nephews. He was a bachelor. Host for the pennsylvanians out there, we should mention he was pennsylvanias only president. We will be visiting the home he built in lancaster pennsylvania, as the segment continues. As a reminder, wed like you to be involved. Its more fun when you ask questions. You can do that by calling us, 202, 585 3881. And you can tweet us using the firstlady or postit on facebook and well take your questions. There was a reading about a pygmalion between the uncle and niece and he was determined to shape her into a proper woman. Feather he took very good care he had a very affectionate relationship with her. He loved her dearly. She loved him dearly. He was like a father figure to her. And he sent her to the best schools. She had the best of really everything. Buchanan did very well for himself. He made a lot of money. So money was not an object. He could have just about anything that he wanted. And he saw to it she was trained to be exactly what she was, a brilliant social success. That she was trained to be exactly what she was, a brilliant social success. Host one of the influences on her education was when her uncle was appointed ambassador to great britain, her home country and she in fact met the queen. Tell us what you know about her experiences there and why she so charmed Queen Victoria. Ann well, its unusual somebody should charm Queen Victoria in such a way, but she certainly did. I think it was her youth and her effervescence. And she was such a change in this rather stiff royal court. And having read about her, she was a very happy girl, wasnt she . Feather she was delightful. Ann and you know, even the prince of wales, and he was only 18 years old, fell under her spell. Host they were somewhat contemporaries. Feather she was about 10 years older. Ann she was, she was about 28 by then but certainly Queen Victoria thought she was wonderful and gave her the official title of an official title, which wouldnt normally be given to a niece. It would only be given to the wife of an ambassador. Host and is it true that Queen Victoria was so taken she tried to make a match with her british subjects, so she would stay in the country . Feather im not sure that is true. But Queen Victoria and prince albert, both of them, thought very highly of harriet and harriet enjoyed her time on the continent a lot. She learned a lot. She really grew over there. Well, the home that James Buchanan built in lancaster, pennsylvania, he was quite a successful lawyer and made a lot of money. We are going to explore her life there and some of the items from the white house that were brought there as we learn more about her style and approach to be the white house official. Here we are in harriet lanes bedroom in wheatland. It is furnished similar to when she would have been living here. The furnishings you see today are pieces she owned after her marriage in 1866. Behind me, you will see her original wardrobe and this is a piece where she would have stored her beautiful European Council she purchased from paris. She was well known throughout the country for fabulous clothing. She had a penchant for european fashions. Most of her clothes were handmade for her. In paris. And the dress here was actually designed by the fashion house worth of paris and worn later in life. Her signature style as first lady differed fairly radically from this dress here. Shed wear full gown with many layers of ruffles and white berthas at the neck and known for her low neckline, which wasnt in fashion in america yet but she brought it to the forefront of fashion and people started copying her. Some of her garments created a bit of a scandal because she was showing quite a bit of skin but it caught on and all the ladies adopted this fashion. She copied her hair, her jewelry they copied her hair, her jewelry and general fashion sense. Now, over to the right here we have a small doll that was not a play thing owned by ms. Lane but rather created to look just like her when she was the first lady and the doll is wearing her signature style of gown with a white bertha with lots of tulle and lace. In front of me is a beautiful rosewood mahogany bed she had especially made to accommodate her uncle James Buchanan. Now, this bed is rather long for the time. He was a very tall man and she wanted to make sure he was comfortable so this is something she commissioned specifically with her beloved uncle in mind. We also have many pieces in the room which are American Made and european made reflecting not only her pride of country but also her interest in european pieces as well. We have her prayer bench which is hand embroidered and holds her mothers book of common prayer which ms. Lane used throughout her life and also a small writing desk she would use to sit and write letters to friends and luckily its a portable writing desk as she spent most her time traveling to friend and family throughout the country. Host on facebook, rachel asks was harriet lane truly more fashionable than previous first ladies or was it merely the development of photography that made her a fashion trendsetter . Feather oh, no. I think well, photography, of course, helped because it was able to be reproduced rather than just a portrait, but she was a fashion trendsetter, absolutely. She looked good in clothes. She had a nice figure. She was buxum but wasnt fat. She made a lovely appearance. I think the only detrimental thing i ever read about harriet lane, some people thought she was a little stiff, maybe a little too formal. But with the political situation, being what it was during those times, i think she needed to be. Host im going to explore this topic a little bit more, because in the first ladies weve learned about to date they were either enormously popular in washington or not. This locus was washington, d. C. Harriet lane, as i understand it, was popular across the country. So this suggests the rise of Media Coverage of the white house. Is that in fact what was going on . Ann yes, i think so. Previously first ladies were never mentioned in the press because it wasnt protocol to talk about and give ladies names and so many first ladies remain unknown to this day really, simply because nobody knew who they were in those days and the press certainly didnt feature them in any way. Host so, now they began featuring them. Feather she liked to dance, she was supposedly a good dancer. She gave a lot of parties. She was an elegant hostess and she dressed well. Hoast did harriet lane play an instrument, if so, which . Feather i believe she played the piano or pianoforte. Host i understand the decanting, because of wealth they got an appropriation from congress but they had supplemented this because they liked to entertain so much. Fed there i dont even know if he got an appropriation. I know there was not a budget for entertainment. Post but it was from their salary . Feather they used to from their salary. Host but did he use this for politicking . Did he try to bring together the north and the south . Was that successful . Feather i dont think anything was successful in those days. It was very, very difficult, but he used it as effectively and as efficiently as just about anybody else could. It really was the white house really glittered. Host marjorie in vancouver. Welcome to the conversation. Marjorie thank you. Last september, my daughter and a family friend and i visited the James Buchanan house and among the things we learned was about harriet lane and her endowments for a handbook for pediatrics could use and my pharmacist said, oh, my gosh this book was from the first lady. It was obvious why harriet lane was interested in so many things but it was not clear why she had such an interesting advocacy for native americans. I wonder if your guests might shed light on that. Feather it is kind of unusual i dont think i think there was some indian chief who came to the white house to visit and i think they made a great impression on her. She became interested in being wealthy and she was interested in their education and she was interested in their medical wellbeing and health, which was it was a proper thing for her to be interested in. No one would be objecting to educating children are taken care of people who were sick. It was certainly a good thing for her. They thought of her past their great white mother. Host you responded when a visitor said visiting Buchanan House and saw a manual as being the first lady is that something you know about . Ann with respect to the john hopkins hospital and pediatric unit that she set up. Host that happened after she got out of the white house. The ship was named after her. A question from jennie weber harriet lane had a u. S. Navy ship named after her. Feather it was a revenue cutter. Host how did she get this honor event only two other side anything naval named after them and i heard she got in trouble for throwing a party on the ship in question . Is that true . Said theyre calling how they named the ship after her i do not know but her uncle was president of the United States and he may both he may have been able to swing it. She invited some friends of hers to have a party on the ship and her uncle got wind of this and he hollered at her. Not for having a party, he was perfectly happy she had a party but that the ship was public property and he felt that she was she should not abuse public property and very straightlaced about her not expressing gifts other than flowers or a box of candy or something, but he did not want her to accept any kind of its. Host this is a nice segue to a video of traveling to wheat land and here we will learn more about the parlor and about harriet and her entertaining style. Here we are at wheatland in pennsylvania. This is the home of president james the can and his niece harriet lane. The spring of 1840 81 month before the first day, they moved here. This was the place they would call home until the age of 36 when she married and moved to baltimore. We are entering the parlor and this room is special because this is the social hub of the home. This is the place or harriet lane as hostess for James Buchanan, might serve tea to friends and guess, write letters to her friends, the room where the family lived and the would spend time together, play games sing, enjoy each others company. Very much like we would do in the family room today. Here we have harriet lanes piano, a gift from James Buchanan. It is manufactured by the taker and company of boston and this is probably purchased sometime in the mid to late 1860s. As you see, we have her music book here and this is embossed with her name on the front and this book contains a number of her favorite pieces including italian classics and some patriotic songs in here. One of her uncles favorite things to do was sit in this parlor on a sunday afternoon and listen to his niece played the religious hymns. He was very devout presbyterian and he listened to those hymns and it brought a great amount of joy to him. Harriet lane was very enthusiastic about all things european and when her uncle was selected as minister in the court of st. James, she was simply over the moon about the idea that she might get to accompany him as his companion. Upon presentation to Queen Victoria in the court of st. James, this lane made a great impression. She had manners, poise, dignity and the claim is very impressed with her. As a result, the two of them formed an interesting friendship that would continue throughout both of their lives. I have this race slip and this is actually a gift that the queen gave harriet. Its a beautiful gold race late and dashed gold bracelet and it has her name and the date of when she received a gift. Behind me here, we have a lithograph of Queen Victoria and also her husband prince albert. These were a diplomatic gift presented to president James Buchanan and his niece harriet lane as first lady during their time in the white house. Whats special about these is they hung in the white house and they were brought back here to their home at wheatland. Harriet lane spent quite a bit of time traveling with James Buchanan. They also entertained International Visitors during their time in the white house as well. One of the most interesting groups had visit them was the japanese delegation. The japanese delegation came to the white house in 1860 and they came bearing all kinds of gifts. What we see here are some of the Little Things they brought. Beautiful little shoes, paper folded objects origami. This is a little dictionary in japanese. Miscellaneous her friends found all of these things very intriguing. Ms. Lane and her friends found all of this things very intriguing. Host is it true that she hosted prince of wales, the future king edward the seventh at the white house . Fthis visit was described as one of the great successes. Feather huge success. Host why . Feather he was the prince of wales i guess, he was the highest ranking foreign person that had ever come here. Everybody knew Queen Victoria. They all know they all knew about the prince of wales and he came here. Actually, he came to canada and the tenant knew Queen Victoria and said, listen, as long as he is and the neighborhood, come on down. They invited him and he stayed at the white house. Host she beat him at what . Feather she beat him. Host is that protocol to have them be vanquished in a competitive game . Ann not really. Feather he probably did not play very well at all. Host probably the first time he lost at anything. [laughter] lets take a call from lancaster, pennsylvania. Caroline is watching us there. Hi, caroline. Caroline, you are on the air. Welcome. Caroline thank you. I would like to know how harriet lane is his niece . Is it his brothers wife . His sisters daughter . Ann sister. Host sisters daughter. He took care of a lot of children. Feather he did. He had one brother and 4 million sisters. He came from a very large family. He did very well in life and he managed to support in some way or other, i think may be about 15 or 16 different nieces and nephews. He had a lot of sisters. Host why we talk about his personal life, there is a story about why he was a bachelor. He did have a great Love Interest in his life . Feather a say that when he was a young man, he was engaged to a woman and it did not work out. It depends on what book you read , you know . The engagement was broken and she later not all that much later died and some suspect she committed suicide. The relationship between you buchanan and his former expected family did not let him go to the funeral. How much was embellished we probably will never know. Host do you have anything more to add . Ann not really. My understanding is that her father discovered he had apparently been thrown out of college for a misdemeanor and my understanding is that her father discovered the reason for his being thrown out of college. And heckled him about it then told his daughter, ann ann had a few words with him about it and we can only guess. What the secret was and he apparently and she apparently did commit suicide. Host he devoted himself to politics and raising his many nieces and nephews. Ann there was a rumor that he had a sure thing with julia tyler beforee she became mrs. Tyler. Feather when julia tyler was in washington before she married the president , she was very very popular. Ann was she . Feather yes, she was. She had flings whatever that means today with a lot of much older men. She seemed to attract a lot of older men, but whatever went on between julia and buchanan was negligible. Host and married 130 years her senior. The next call is from barbara and the cave and in brookhaven, pennsylvania. Barbara i, too, remember hearing the story about a brokenhearted buchanan whose e. On say who lived in philadelphia whose fiance who lived in philadelphia kilted him and it had something to do with her familys objection to him. So apparently, he was just so brokenhearted there was never anyone else for him. I remember hearing that story from a tour guide when i went through wheatland. Host thank you very much for that. Here is a question from wallace lee, please tell that president buchanan was originally from lancaster from pennsylvania and he moved to lancaster as an adult. [laughter] feather he was brought in mercersburg, pennsylvania. He chose it to be his adult home. Host is it true that as he was setting his face for the many runs for president that he would use that as entertaining spot for members of congress. Feather oh, sure it was a lovely home he invited people to come to wheatland and it was a nice piece of property, oh, sure. Host lancaster pennsylvania is the sight of our next caller. Linda, you are on. Linda thank you. I appreciate it. Could you elaborate on harriet lanes wedding, where that took place and any interesting details that may have been the result of that . Closed harriet lane did not get married until long after the white house. Feather she got married about 35 or 36 years old when she got married. Buchanan was very happy about it. She married a man named henry johnson, a banker and some people say he was a lawyer. He may have been a lawyer first and then a banker, but he was a banker. They always seemed to like each other and i guess maybe by that time it was time for her to get married and buchanan was very happy about it because he died a year and half later, so he probably knew he was getting on in life and this way, harriet would be settled. And then they moved to baltimore and they lived in baltimore. Host we will come back to that. I dont want to leave the white house because obviously the nation was about to split apart. South carolina was about to secede but heres a quick look at america and why the 1860s and the population was 31 million and 33 states, 35 growth since 1850 census. It were 3. 9 million slaves, about 13 of the population. The largest cities in the country at that time were new york city, philadelphia, brooklyn, new york, and baltimore, all in the northeast. Harriet lane was she also a political advisor to the president and if so, it did not turn out so well . Feather it depends on what you mean with advice. Wishing a political advisor in the sense of Abigail Adams . No. I think she was a little bit more in the Dolly Madison pain of socially helpful to him. She was subservient. He trained her to listen well. And to observe and to take note of what was going on and to form opinions. She was usually quite quiet about expressing her opinion which was one of the reasons that she was very popular. Host here is a question how have the duties and the volcker Martha Washington until this day . How have the duties evolved from Martha Washington until this day . Host it looks like it depends on the day. Feather i think the first three first ladies, martha, abigail and dolly were far harder working and more actively involved in their husbands lives and in their careers. My own opinion was when we stop being colonies and started being a country, maybe by the 1800s or so, that generation growing up it they were going to be they were more prominent. They were very prosperous and men wanted their wives to have all sorts of lovely things and cater to them a lot more. You didnt have to work quite as hard. The ladies at that time, they started i guess being trailer frailer until the civil war. Host here are some of the key events of the b cannon administration. At one time in the white house. 1857, the Dred Scott Supreme Court decision. 1858, the lecompton constitution. 1860, the pony express was established. The file of the first japanese the first japanese delegation visited the white house and in 1861 the Confederate States of america was created. This house was dealing with problems but not effectively. How did the Buchanan Administration try to approach negotiating and using the white house and bringing parties together . Ann i think i would have to defect to you. Feather they entertained a lot. They had two dinners awake for 40 people at each dinner. Host how do they keep fights from breaking out . Feather they were at a tremendous alltime high and harriet lane or another hat. She also was very actively involved in the protocol of it and she would spend hours working on the seating plans. I cant sit next to you and you cant sit over there and who is going to be over here because they are not talking to each other . She was very very hard and fortunately, she knew all of these different senators and cabinet members and congressmen. So she knew how to put them and where to put them and she was very smart at it. Post did she attend debates in congress . Feather occasionally. Host next, this is a curse on the line. Chris harriet lane was in the house at wheatland, can you tell us how many people how many Family Members were in the house as well as how many staff were in the house at wheatland . Feather i dont know. Ann really, subject i do know they had a steward because when they first went to that white house they wanted to take home and harriet did not want that. They brought over a steward from there. Feather they did have some staff. I dont know how many of their Family Members actually lived there. I know he had a couple of nephews that he had at the white house serving as his secretary yeah. That was very common to bring in relatives. Host and not to underscore the people in wheatland they feather no. Host welcome to the conversation. Go ahead, please. I have a small real story for you. I taught first ladies for several years at our program here and went i got to james decanting, a friend came and said, i have something to show everybody. She showed everybody her ring and said, this belongs to my husbands family. This is the ring james decanting gave his fiancee. His family says this is the original ring. Host do you have any proof of that . Great story. Before you close the show, you i hope you discuss her losing her family and the legacy she left. She left a lovely estate and did a lot of good. Thank you very much. Host yes, indeed, we plan to. Next weeks program, we promise it will be interesting. A full two hours on the lincoln administration. We mentioned that South Carolina had seceded. What were the post years like for harriet lane . Feather she went back to wheatland for her with her uncle for about five years and then she married henry johnson. And they moved to baltimore where he was a banker and he was quite prominent and what to do. They had these two sons and unfortunately, harriet had about 15 decent years as mrs. Johnson. Both her sons died young. Ann within one year of each other. Feather yes, i think they were 12, 13 they were young boys. She is another one who lost both of them. And in about a year and a half after the boys died, her husband died. Harriet is now around 50ish and she is a widow, on her own. She moves back to washington, d. C. , and she gets to be a little bit like dolly. She gets invited to the white house every time they are going to be having a big deal. She gets invited and those party to party if she is there and she does a lot of good, she really does. Post we will take a call and then talk a little bit more. This is charles in wheatland pennsylvania. How about that . There is a town named after the estate. You are on the air, charles. Charles i dont know if your panel has heard of it, it is a cyber it is a suburb of and named after the estate. It was originally a canal town. The canal going to pittsburgh in two. There is the Wheatland Tube company which is a very large producer of tubes and iron, etc. The only question i have, i am wondering if there are any other named towns named after the estate of a president. I think this is rather unusual. Host now that is a detailed question. Do you know the answer . We are going to return to wheatland for the last video of this program and learn more about harriet lanes post white house years. Unfortunately, harriet lanes life was marked by tremendous loss. Or such a boy remarkable woman it tells us a lot by seeing the different tragedies that marked her life. The game with the loss of both of her parents several young siblings and when she reached adulthood, the loss of her three siblings who had also reached adulthood with her. Also followed by the death of her beloved uncle James Buchanan and shortly thereafter, the death of her two young sons and then her husband, ultimately. As you can see here, i have harriet lanes joy box which would have held many trinkets and beautiful jewels. Lots of them used in happy occasions and parties and galas but some of them used for those more intimate and very sad occasions when she was reading. I have some pieces of mourning jewelry that are very interesting. This first one is a morning locket that contains the hair of her mother, father and three of her siblings. It is very unique in that the locket closes and as the wheel turns, they are glass weights and under each plate is the hair of one of her Family Members and it is engraved lip their names and the date of their deaths. This piece here is a locket that is woven with a little pattern of hair from three of her young nieces and nephews. It is a very beautiful little locket. On the back we can see more hair and the engravings of their names and the dates of their deaths. On this piece is a very interesting locket in that it opens onto sides and in the first side, we can see a type of her sister Mary Wayne Baker who died very prematurely, just as harriet was returning from england. She came home to the news that her dear sister had died. On the other side, we see her brother, elliott lane. This is a very artsy photograph taken sometime near the end of his life, but he was also a young man who died unfortunately after president buchanans inauguration. He had been set to serve as the personal secretary to the president and then died of an unfortunate case of dysentery that affected many people who had stayed at the National Hotel in washington. This last piece is a mourning bracelet harriet created to commemorate her uncle James Buchanan. There is a cameo on the front but when you turn it around, a lock of his hair in the glass plate from the cut from his head in wheatland and his last words uttered on june 1 1868, and this is a very special piece because the last words and the name hidden within so it is something she would have kept close to her. From the outset, it appears to be an ordinary piece of jewelry. This painting is in the image of harriet lanes two young sons James Buchanan johnson and Henry Elliott johnson junior. Sadly, this is a memorial portrait because both boys died as an teenagers from what we now know to be rheumatic fever. Both voice became ill around the same time. One boy died in the United States and other died after harriet and her husband took them to france to hopefully seek a cure and Better Climate with mineral waters. As you can see, the boys are per trade against iraqi seascape to symbolize against a rocky seascape to symbolize their death. It shows them as they would have been in life as a memorial for the mother to remember them by. Host as we wrap up our program here, our caller asked us to make sure we talk about the white house years and the issue she got involved and there are many. She and her husband, together, created one of the first homes for invalid children which is called the harriet lane home for invalid children. It is now still part of Johns Hopkins and the current incarnation. She had quite an Art Collection and her Art Collection was donated to the smithsonian and it became the foundation for the National Rally of art in washington, d. C. She was involved with accretion of saint albans school, quite an influential school in washington and very involved in the preservation of her uncles memory to the James Buchanan memorial. We have a picture of that. You earlier called it a failed presidency, but it is quite a memorial he has in the Meridian Park area of washington, d. C. I have a question for both of you we are trying to understand what each of these ladies, their influence on the country and the role they had and how important it was, where would you put harriet lane in the pantheon of first ladies in terms of importance . Feather second. Host second . Feather if she was mrs. Buchanan instead of a niece of the canning, i think she would be second to dolly in the 19th century. Ann i think she should still be second even if she is mrs. Lane miss lane and not mrs. Buchanan. Host why . Ann the effect she had on people and she had a real tranquility to the role of first lady. She was just a great girl and everybody loved her. Host how does save thank you to the white house circle association. Our partners in the and to our two guests on this program. Both of our guests have books available that you can read about. The author of first ladies, an intimate portrait of the women who shaped america. Thank you both of you for being with us and thank you for being our audience. Like many of us first families take they take that take vacation time. A good read could be the perfect companion for summer journeys. First ladies, president ial historians on the lives of five iconic american women. A great summertime read, available from Public Affairs as a hardcover or ebook through your favorite bookstore or online bookseller. On june 9, 1772, a furnace that a british ship entered waters in Providence Rhode island. When the ship went aground local Rhode Islanders set higher and took the captain and crew prisoner. Up next, rhode island senator Sheldon Whitehouse talks about the role in the gas be a fair the american revolution. This is 13 minutes. Im here to celebrate a significant event. Every student of American History knows the story of the boston tea party