The National Archives hosted this 90 minute event. Hello, everyone. [applause] how are you . Thank you for being here. We are going to have a rousing evening, i hope. Certainly an interesting one. I have to say, the whole topic of what the first lady wears, we know, is a frequent topic of discussion. We have lisa here, who wrote the book on the first ladies collection. Lisa, i would speculate that you departmentt visited at the smithsonian. We are told it is the most visited exhibition at the smithsonian. We turn 100 years old this year. How fantastic. I want to ask all of our panel, why do we care so much about what the first lady wears . What is the impact . What is the legacy . What is the message . I think she is a symbolic figure. She is in a way, a little bit like the queen of america. People look at her to see what kind of a female image she is conveying. I think we also see her as i think that people definitely want time you late her. From how she is conducting herself to the world. Are going to have a question and answer session at the end of this. If you have questions about any of these things, write them down. The we have Dolly Madison who presided over the first inaugural ball in 18 own nine 1809. What do we think about Dolly Madison and the impact she had . [laughter] it is taking us back. Way back. People criticized her, didnt they . Fancy,ought she was too too much into fashion, too aristocratic. Dollyu could come to madisons parties as long as you were perfectly dressed. [indiscernible] Dolly Madison grew up as a quaker. When she married james madison, she broke from the quaker background. From a woman who was very demurely dressed, to really blazing out in amazing clothes. She is very fond of reds and yellows. She is able to fill this dazzling vision. You have to wonder if this is what she wanted to look like as a little girl. There is some of Dolly Madisons dazzling red. What did that mean at that time . A lot of controversy if you are properly shod and properly jacketed and can present a respectable appearance, you just need an introduction. Or you havesomebody a card of introduction, you can be admitted. Called squeezes, or crushes. Ebola crowd into her drawing room. To people would crowd in her drawing room. Is there anything significant about the construction of clothing from this era that contributed to the impact and the effect it has on us either emotionally or psychologically . Probably empire style. It is very high waisted and it is worn without a corset. Completely different from 18th century aristocratic dress, the cone shaped corset and the big hoops. It is very body conscious. At the time, a lot of people in america and france thought of it style, notrepublican an aristocratic style. It evoke the idea of ancient greece and rome. It was almost monastic in a manner of speaking. Not always, as you can see. They also had some pretty glamorous ones. Lowcut gown and a wonderful turban and jewelry, it looks pretty fantastic. [laughter] im amazed there was so much bosom exposed, especially for a quaker and a first lady. That is always in style. [laughter] gownis is an example of a that mrs. Madison would have worn in her youth. This goes back to what you were describing, valerie. The whole quaker look was gray and noncolored. It stood for trying to stand out from society. Goes through american history, not just with the quakers. The whole sense of fashion as unnecessary and elitist. To be a quaker was to make that point very clearly. Also becameison impoverished later in life. She wears clothes again and again, and this is one of the dresses we have in the collection. Made of her dresses were it was very popular to where great grandmas clothing. Close, the skirt will have been styled to a slightly different cello at. We like recycling. Have julia tyler, and she was indeed a great beauty. Held the role of first the eightight months, months of john tylers presidency. She was often seen wearing white set in. White satin. Aboutre our thoughts julia tyler and what significance could she have had with such a short rain . At eight months, not much. The older first lady . At that point, she was the youngest first lady. She was younger than some of the children. There was a world wind romance. She is very conscious of herself. She had to be taken off to europe by her family because she posed for an advertisement, which was scandalous at the time. She came back with a taste for european. Part of this look, this white satin, is that she wanted to sit on a dais and have people presented to her. She had a reasonable impact on white house entertaining in a short amount of time. It might not have been the impact she wanted. [laughter] way that changes from more gala terry into a more high styled she was exclusive. You, howd love to ask do you verify these legends and tales . Is it difficult . Some of them are difficult. If there is a diary Dolly Madisons dress, the story is that it was made out of the red velvet drapes that she saved from the burning white house. That is a wonderful story but it is not true. [laughter] it is a great story. The Historical Museum owns the dress. There is a piece of the curtain, and for an exhibit at the natural portrait gallery, the pieces met. We had just gotten a really wonderful new microscope in the conservation lab. Ify came to our lab to see we could prove this was the same fabric. It is not the same fabric. We know that if this was the curtain, the dress was not made of the curtain. What we dont know is if that was really the curtain. Now we have a second mystery to solve with that piece. There is another letter to be found somewhere. Back to julia tyler. Onto sarah polk. 184549. W up to dressing in this time different . Asthis is what you think of Early Victorian style. It is very much more conventionally feminine. You are back to corsets, full skirt over petticoats. Although she is wearing a dark dress, you do see more distinction between men in black suits and women in lighter and more delicate colors of fabric. You get real gender distinction, part of the idea of, women should have their domestic role at home and be different creatures than men. Relationship the between fashion in america and europe . Were we a nation of borrowers then . Yes, absolutely. Center ofalready the womens fashion. Magazines hadon images which were based on those from french fashion magazines. At the same time, we have complaints that, how can the daughters of puritan ancestors Wear Clothing designed in the wicked city of paris . You have a american magazines saying they are going to americanize the fashion. That means making them a little more simple or modest. Clothesmost of these made here . They were not brought over from europe . If you are wealthy, you could get things, but most things were made here. You might have fabric shift over. I didnt realize too that would makeashion women look smaller. A lot of the proportions were larger to make women look more petite. Your waist and extremity should be little, but the hips should be full and the bosom should be full. Your shoulders should be full. You wanted to have really voluptuous shoulders. Big, big butt. [laughter] by the 1880s, one English Writer said, no man would stay long with a woman whose skinny buttocks he could hold in the palm of one hand. [laughter] sounds like nicki minaj. [laughter] and this brocade gown says all that. It really does. Can you imagine Kim Kardashian in that . I prefer not to. [laughter] with the first wonder bra pushing it up and up. And what about accessories . What are these . [laughter] thats really cool. That says tunisian silk, right . I think thats so amazing. The striped one . It is. Yes. With a tassel. I love that. I want that. Sarah polk purchased these in paris. And did this become popular . Were people suddenly wearing turbins everywhere . They went in and out. They came back in the 1840s. Was this before hairdressers were popular . [laughter] i ask with some sincerity. Its supposed to be a glamorous exotic look. It is exotic. And here we have harriet lane. She was the niece of james buchanan. Is that correct . The niece. She was considered to be an absolute beauty, elegant member of the white house. She actually entertained the prince of wales and rather scandalously had gentlemen giving her presents and her uncle had to she used to hide things because she knew her uncle wouldnt let her accept some of the jewelry and other things that gentlemen were trying to give her. And as the niece of the president , was she considered a first lady in standing . She was the first lady, served as first lady and is one of the first ladies to be called first lady. Thats interesting. By the press, in magazines. Dolley madison is referred to as the first lady of our land in a eulogy but this is the first lady in media, really. And she did. He was unmarried his entire life, she lived with him most of their life and served as hostess and therefore became first lady. Do you think they called upon the term first lady, the press, because it was awkward and shes not a wife and shes not a consort . I like consort. She would have enjoyed that. [laughter] i think partly its to its to have something to call you, since you dont have a title. Martha washington was lady washington, but Lady Buchanan sounds odd. Its also to promote the idea that this is the first lady in the land, the one setting fashion and who you are following, the consort, really, of the president. So in diplomatic visits, for instance, this is the woman entertaining the prince of wales. You need something to give her a little more stature than miss buchanan. And seems to have had incredible style. I love this dress. It drove the photographers crazy. This is a worth gown. It is the deepest Midnight Blue ive ever seen velvet, the white satin and then the silver. And it did make our photographers insane to try and light and shoot. It is one of my favorite pieces in the collection. I would try it on if you secretly try them on. This would be the piece. Not allowed. No. Would you ever permit that . [laughter] we fantasize but we dont carry it out. Were moving on to mary todd lincoln. This is quite a staggering looking gown. This is not painted from life. This is painted by her niece, i believe, after death. When you advance the slide, youll notice its modeled on a Matthew Brady photograph. Its romanticized. Highly romanticized. It seems like shes wearing that dress with that head dress. Thats a good point. Could be. Yeah. What do you think . I think its modeled on that photograph. Interesting. She famously had a dressmaker, Elizabeth Keckley, a wellknown African American dressmaker. She was criticized, wasnt she, for being so interested in fashion . Mary lincoln wanted to be dolley madison. Had war not broken out she probably would have been an incredibly successful white house hostess. But a civil war happened. So on the one hand marys doing the right thing, showing stature and stability of the presidency by entertaining, dressing well, playing this part. On the other hand, theres a war going on and youre going to be criticized for fashion. Shes in an uncomfortable situation. She doesnt have as much of her husbands time as she would normally have. Elizabeth keckley was also a southerner, someone she can relate to and becomes her confidant. So fashion is a way they can talk together and work together. It became her downfall in the end. She was taken out by something called the old clothes scandal where mary tried to sell her old clothes, which is hardly a disreputable thing to do. She was so afraid after the president s death of being impoverished that she employed Elizabeth Keckley to go with her to new york, where they were trying to be discrete. But people knew who mrs. Lincoln was. They stayed in a hotel where mary lincoln refused to stay in a room that mrs. Keckley couldnt stay in. So they slept in the attics because the hotel wouldnt serve mrs. Keckley, the restaurant wouldnt serve mrs. Keckley. So mary wouldnt eat in the restaurant. They would have food in their room. But two fine dealers who would sell marys clothes, it became a nineday wonder as all of new york came to look at marys clothes but would not bid. And the press was scathing. Its the reason mrs. Keckley wrote her memoir, was to try and save marys reputation. And then mary severed their relationship. She was so disconcerted by Elizabeth Keckley who was trying to tell good things about her, revealing secrets of the white house, that this woman who she called her best and dearest friend, they never spoke again. Mrs. Lincoln was really manic depressant. Wasnt she . I think today we would say mary could have benefited from a little prozac. [laughter] to be fair. Now, to be fair. She went through a bit. Had two children die. Had three children die and her husband die in front of her. So i can understand if she was a little depressed. When youre talking about the decolletage, mary lincoln is fond of her shoulders. Her husband thought she was beautiful but infamously had one dress, in mrs. Keckleys memoir, with a long train, a low bodice, and he remarked that the cat had a fine tale tonight, maybe if a little more of the tale were up by the neck it would be a finer dress. [laughter] and this is an Elizabeth Keckley dress . It is. As is this. Thats the back of it. Actually, its the bodice. Two bodices, right . Mmhmm. Is that normal . Absolutely. Many, many dresses had two bodices, one for evening and one for day. Because by this time theres a real distinction. For evening, short, plunging, but for daytime youre all covered up. That wouldnt have been true in dolley madisons day. But here its clear distinctions. In the evening you were with your social equals, theoretically. And it was all aesthetic display. It wasnt considered overtly sexual. But in the daytime youre out, all covered up. I have a sincere question. How much did the first ladys wardrobe impact the reputation of the president and his administration . Was it just a sidebar . I think its a very easy thing to trivialize. Its certainly not the first thing youre thinking about in the president ial administration. Mrs. Robb said something earlier about dressing, showing your value, dressing to your value. Show for what youre worth. Selling for what youre worth. Thank you. Thats the first ladys job. She is representing the administration, the style of the administration, how formal the administration is and the stability and value of the administration. If this is a well put together, stately, expensively dressed woman, then you can reckon that the administration is stable, has style, can entertain european dignitaries and can stand equal with the crowned heads of europe which when youre trying to get somebody to come in on your side of the civil war when you need england to come in on your side, thats what you want to present. Precisely. Lets move on to mrs. Cleveland, francis cleveland. Lets see some of her style. Was that painting in the style of sergeant or by sergeant . I think its in the style. This is a worth gown also. It is silk, indian, embroidered with orange blossoms, draped with a silk tulle with a circlet on her hands. This would have been the height of fashion. To be his client, would almost always travel over to paris. He would put together a look for you. He was the first one who took couture from smallscaled artisans, dressmakers sewing at your hem, to being someone all about big business and high art. And very often hed tell his clients, you know, i see you in yellow. He was sort of a dictator and much mocked in the press. But he was the first hugely successful, established couturier. This was the height of fashion. When we think of fashion designers, his name pops up at the very beginning. This is also her wedding dress. There is her wedding, which happened in, when did it happen . In the white house. In the blue room, if i remember correctly. That is an absolutely fictitious drawing. [laughter] it was hidden from reporters. An announcement went out that the president was going to be married. People were literally trying to peer into the windows, which were blocked. And the artists had to come up with their rendition of what the wedding must have looked like. She was amazingly, they called her yum yum. And speculation had been that he would marry her mother. When asked, are you getting married, he said he was waiting for his bride to grow up. And he wasnt kidding. She was very young. 21. She graduated from college, went to europe, came home, and married the president of the united states. Shes sort of had a old head on young shoulders; very stately, very grave, very mature. And here she is wearing what we would call choker today around her neck. At the time they were calling it a dog collar. I dont think it was a compliment. It was following alexander prince of wales so it helped establish that. Hers were often encrusted with diamonds. So again, very stylish. Im sure the wctu took comfort in it. Of course, the young first lady supposed to be a role model so they announced that mrs. Cleveland was going to stop wearing this very lowcut bodices which they thought was wonderful. They hadnt checked with mrs. Cleveland. Mrs. Cleveland, thank you very much, she would continue to wear what she was going to wear. So they had to take comfort in the gloves and the sleeves. We see another example where the bodice is switched out. That would be a dinner bodice. I like it. Does it also mean it expands . [laughter] you can see thats a corseted waist. Notice the dress is made with a separate bodice and skirt. Thats typical. You dont have many onepiece dresses then. Actually, the piece on that is three bodices. The one it came with, which is actually the peach bodice made in paris. And then when they got back to america, that green bodice was made by lottie barton, a baltimore dressmaker. Some width was taken out of the skirt and remodeled as yet another bodice. I love the petticoat peeking out. Beautiful. That is wonderful. Back up again. Yes. All right. Now we have mrs. Woodrow wilson. She was in the white house from 1913 until 1921, which was a very interesting period of time for a lot of reasons. She looks in that first picture like the whole transition of fashion happened between the first picture and the second. Yes. Thats true. When you look at this. This is i guess the flapper era. Looks like early 1920s. Probably about. Well, if its from the white house, its the very late teens. And she was very fond of black so most of her clothes, aside from being a widow who married the president , most of her clothing is in black and white. Was she forwardthinking in her taste . I find it hard to believe its the late teens. To me it looks like its the early 1920s. But its hard to tell from the whole picture. Id like to see it in person. I wonder if its a post white house dress. It could be. Here is another. This is another very pretty one. Its very pretty. That could be teens. That could be late teens. That style reminds me of it does. I doubt it is a poures, but it has that kind of sort of ethnic, romantic feel. Exactly. According to our notes, the label inside the jacket identifies this as a piece by worth. Yes, poure had worked for worth for a little while. Thats true. Or the sons of worth. When they hired him they said even a great restaurant needs a potato fryer so youre in charge of the french fries. We do the grand ball gowns. You can do the day dresses. He didnt last long there. This is also attributed to worth. Was worn at a private dinner party at the white house in 1915. Thats kind of retrograde for 1915. Its not at all fashionable. Thats more like a 1912looking dress. Sorry. The way the bosom yes. Its really oldfashioned with that mono bosom, the new high waist, the neo empire style. I have to say almost every dress, when we were trying to mount this is a dress on exhibit right now. When we have a good amount of the clothes, some came from the National Trust and some that came from mrs. Wilson herself, really as they were cleaning out the house in d. C. After her husbands death. But every dress we took down to the conservator, wed choose a new one. I would get a call who would say, you have to come look at this. She did something to it. Mrs. Wilson had a sewing machine and apparently liked to fiddle with her clothes because almost every one of these pieces has been cut up or remade. And the struggle of finding a dress that was mostly intact that we could mount didnt look weird. It was timeconsuming. And this is the dress we finally came up with that she had done the least damage to. You keep them as historical items. For the fashion museum, theyre like, sorry, its not working. Why was she compelled to do all of this tweaking . Weve been very curious. Were still trying to find if we can find a note that says, well, today i was bored and i remade my dinner dress from 19 i could speculate that she spent a lot of time alone, a lot of time with her ailing husband. Maybe she just so needed to amuse herself. She did make her own red cross hat. Maybe its just a strange hobby she had. Maybe she fancied herself as a designer and wanted to see its what we were speculating; she had an interest in fashion and wanted to see what she could do. If valeries correct, she would have been the first one out on project runway. [laughter] make it work. She was having difficulty making it work. Were moving on to grace coolidge, mrs. Calvin coolidge, in the white house from 1923 to 1929. This is a gorgeous beautiful. Amazing. Very beautiful. The president wanted her to wear a white dress. The artist said that he wanted, wanted the composition to be red and white. Apparently the president who liked the odd joke said, paint the dog red. [laughter] you said that dress was originally slit higher, right, with some leg showing . Apparently. This is part of the White House Historical association collection, not ours. This is a very interesting photograph. President coolidge prevents grace from wearing pants and bobbing her hair as short as she would have preferred. He often bought her luxurious hats and things to wear to public events. Whats interesting about this photograph, we were looking at it earlier, it is in the white house. Its a staircase that no longer exists. Its been removed. I hope not because of what she was wearing. [laughter] and this is quite beautiful. This is a flapper dress from 1925 or 1926. Thats the Perfect Little flapper dress. Heavily beaded. Its interesting how much of that cami sticks out. Normally an arm would be there. I think it helped. He was a notorious cheapskate. This was his one extravagance to buy his wife clothes or to say i saw this and you must have it. He thought she was beautiful, doted on her and didnt want her to wear the same thing twice. Wow. And did she like the president s taste . She seems to have. She was very subservient isnt the right word. She knew what he liked. These were not the battles she was going to choose. She also had a sewing machine and quietly also ran up some of her own clothes. Oh, dear. We have to banish those home machines. Everybody sewed. My grandmother did. She did have an interest in appearing she liked casual clothes, the sportswear that was coming out at the time. So if you see a lot of candid pictures of her, you can see a much more casual look. And she was an avid animal lover. So it begs the question, what is she doing with that raccoon . Thats rebecca the raccoon. Did it become a collar . [laughter] the temptation to say, yes, Eleanor Roosevelt. Thats true. That fox. Here we have Eleanor Roosevelt who was in the white house for a very long time, 1933 until 1945. And this is her crepe, silk, evening gown for the 1933 inaugural ball. I read that the sleeves were removable. Oh, i see. We have it on display now with the sleeves off because thats the way she wore it. Oh, it is. There are wonderful moonstone clasps at the shoulders. My favorite part because its not an Eleanor Roosevelt you dont think Eleanor Roosevelt and think slinky, but the back fastens with a small clasp. And if you take the sleeves off, you can open up the back and have it come down. So you get a nice draped, low back. And its wonderful, very movie star to me, very 1930s. Such a wonderful, sexy stylish decade. You dont think of Eleanor Roosevelt as sexy. No. Its true. You dont. She was a bit of a minx. [laughter] and christmas readings from the president and mrs. Roosevelt. Its hard to tell what either one of them is wearing. [laughter] and this is a lawn party for a white house guards. That was very democratic in its own way. The suit, lets see. On the right, its a dress. Always looks like a suit to me. Its a dress. This is what she wore to the first inaugural ceremony. So its a beautiful they called it eleanor blue. Its sort of lavender color. How interesting. It was eleanor blue. And oddly, we have the hat thats supposed to go with it in the collection made out of the same fabric. But she didnt wear it. Id love to know why. What was the fabric . Its sort of a velvet. So its a beautiful sort of shimmery lavender with little flowers toward the back. I think she looks better with the contrast. So it wasnt uncommon at all for first ladies to recycle looks and wear things numerous times. Yes. You wore your clothes again, especially during a depression, during the war, but you also its something you can say to show that you are not as extravagant as people might think that you might be. And the press will note if youre wearing something again. Depending upon the event of the press and how popular you are, youre either going to get credit for that or its going to be a detriment and people are going to remark that youre not supporting the fashion industry enough, that youre not buying enough new clothing, that youre not giving a good impression of the united states. You cant win. You cannot win being the first lady with your clothes. These were serious warriors. It was especially difficult. Didnt want to step up and out. Now we have mrs. Dwight d. Eisenhower in the white house from 1953 until 1961. And what did we think about mrs. Eisenhowers style . Quintessentially 1950s. Pretty in pink, big, poofy skirts. One of the most popular with little girls who visit the collection. You cant beat the fairy tale Pink Princess dress. You see that right here, most definitely. Certainly is bedazzled. Valerie, do you think mrs. Eisenhower was able to retain the style because she could purchase it or because it was embedded in her . Lisa kathleen, im asking you the same. Its of the period. So in that sense its fashionable. But its by no means cutting edge fashion. Its sort of anne fogerty if not dior. She loves clothes, but Mamie Eisenhower will tell you herself this is by nettie rosenstein. So she will go to a designer or she will buy it from a mail order catalog. Whatever she thinks is pretty is what interests her and also that doesnt look old. Mamie eisenhower was very concerned she not look old ladyish. So she wanted things and this dress to me is a good example as something that made her feel young in which she appeared young. And another. Which comes with matching shoes, matching purse, and frightening opera length gloves. That is more magenta than you have ever seen in your life. Oh, dear. The 1950s could be sublime or it could be just frightening. When they said you had the mamie look, was that a putdown or a compliment . At the time its always a compliment, i think, that youre dressing like the first lady. Mamie pink. If the first lady seems to have a color, youre wearing mamie pink or something that would be very popular in the white house. You catch the first ladys eye if youre dressed like her. So if youre going to an event at the white house, it cant hurt to be wearing something that Mamie Eisenhower is going to like. And everybody, pink was a really popular color then. Sort of a think pink again. Sort of femininity, the feminine mystique. That was a period a lot of people could identify with her and her clothes that would make it popular. Most definitely. I love the caption of this photo. Mamie enjoyed a good bargain. [laughter] ragged on her mail order. And this is interesting. Lisa kathleen, can you tell us about this textile . This is not a piece of our collection. Oh, sorry. It is a toile. It shows scenes in life. So the house of gettysburg and other places that they visited and had been. Its like a quilt would be the story of your life this fabric in a little ways. Do we know where this dress is . I do not know where this dress is. Im going to assume it is in the president ial library. All right. And the head of the president ial Library System just went, oh, maybe. Moving on to mrs. Kennedy. We all know, a style setter and someone people followed very, very, very carefully. What was it about mrs. Kennedys style . Seemed aristocratic. And i think it was very much an upper class style which went from eastern seaboard right across to europe. So it was a look for a lot of americans which was strike strikingly chic. People thought these were just nice clothes that one wore. But for the average american it was the first sight of a first lady wearing this sort of chic clothing. Was it a glimpse inside a very rarified universe . I think that would be fair to say. It always seemed to me its a style you can look at and think it might be achievable for you. You can imagine buying that dress. Everybody, womens wear daily covered her like a war. Everything she did they were covering. The general public was fascinated. I love this picture. Its jackie in a strapless dress. I remember we have in the collection we had a sleeveless dress. We have a one shoulder dress and a strapless dress. We have a cocktail dress with a jacket. I remember reading that there was concern over mrs. Kennedys shoulders and whether they could be seen. Cassini talked about having to convince the president that this was ok. So they moved from an inaugural dress that was sleeveless but with an overlay of chiffon to a one shoulder dress for her first state dinner gown designed by cassini to eventually be strapless dresses. They found the public liked mrs. Kennedys shoulders just fine. I was amazed when i read that, that he didnt want her wearing the strapless gown. Its always been part of a continual problem. What is the public going to say . You belong to us. Youre the first lady. Is what youre wearing appropriate . Lord knows we have opinions on peoples clothes. But now it continues. Can mrs. Obama wear a cardigan to meet the queen and shorts and sneakers in the grand canyon . What would you wear in the grand canyon . A ball gown. Its true. I just want to make one comment. This is the president and mrs. Kennedy with the cultural attache from france. Theyre at the National Gallery of art here. The mona lisa is visiting. What year is it . All i will say is as a kid, i remember standing in line to see the mona lisa and it was well worth it. This is a beautiful dress. This is oleg cassini 1961, yellow silk. So the black and white photograph is of the look that you see in color, but the bodice is switched out. Switching bodices. Still switching. Yes. The bodice in the black and white photograph is dark. It was dark green. The original bodice. It was switched out. Do we know why . Does it even matter . Matter of taste . She changed her mind. At least she didnt sew it up. [laughter] you can imagine jackie o. All right. Were moving on to mrs. Richard nixon, 1969 to 1974. It was maintained that mrs. Nixon represented the average woman. What do we think about that . Who put that forth . They just purposely, nixon, even winning he wasnt the most popular of individuals. When he campaigned, he actually said whatever you think of me, we all can agree that pat would be a wonderful first lady. [laughter] its an odd thing to say. But she was a lovely woman, a friendly woman who wasnt used nearly to the effect she could have been by the white house because they just didnt understand her charm and the value and the power that she had. So they trotted her out as a symbol of the average housewife. Sort of tried to mold her into this look or this image. Shes just like you. And you think of when nixon talked about her republican cloth coach, you know, that she was not the kind of person who was in a fancy fur coat. And then you compare that to all of the reports about mrs. Kennedy shopping and spending tens of thousands of dollars so that mrs. Kennedy said, i would have had to buy sable underwear to spend that much money. You have two very different images in the public of two first ladies. Which is again how you can use the first lady and her fashion to promote the presidency, candidacy and to create a particular image. These are images of mrs. Nixon in clothing that were used to seeing her in a kind of uniform. How would we describe it . It kind of reminds me of the queen in a way. Sort of one monochromatic, one color so that you can pick her out in a crowd. You came to see this lady, so she wants you to be able to see her. Thats part of what shes doing, being visible. And its perfectly fine but its not fashionable. Its a kind of ceremonial uniform. I think thats a good idea. It has dignity. I was asked once if first ladies did first ladies aim to be sexy . And after i sort of choked for a minute, i said, no, i think they aim to be appropriate. Right. And mrs. Nixon embodies that look of an appropriate first lady for your age, for your station, for the activity in which youre involved. You aim to be appropriate. Unfortunately it was the coming of the 1970s. Even an appropriate dress looks a little odd. Its very easy for other people to look extremely. I love june carter cash. The chiffon is rolling in and out. The decade the tapes forgot. [laughter] and its on its way back. Oh, yes. Again. It fascinates me. I never think of an evening gown with a front zipper. But betty fords state dinner dress, there is no inaugural gown for her. Shes the only first lady that got to choose to send something to us. She chose a dress she had worn to several state dinners. Its her favorite shade of green. It has a zipper in the front. It still fascinates me. I dont think ive ever, ever any other time seen i would ask you. Is that really odd . What was the date of the gown . Im going to say 1974. In the 1940s i think there were front zippers. Zippers were used more. Its not unheard of for them. Its a lovely dress. Its beautiful. And here is a closeup of mrs. Nixons inaugural gown, one of them. Is that correct . This is her first inaugural gown. I have to say, this is one of the pieces we were surprised to find displayed so much better and so much better since weve redone the mannequins. The sparkle, its a very simple dress with the deepest jewel belt and bolero jacket. It has the most amazing shimmer to it. Any way she turned or moved it must have been this beautiful glitter. A series of dresses in this time period, its interesting, yellow. When we put them together, you were like yellow was very popular for a while. We have a series of dresses that are pastel, pastel yellow, blue, pastel green. Then you moved to the other side and suddenly we have the Nancy Reagan White and then vivid blue, purple, vivid red, and back to white again. It was an interesting rainbow going on. Interesting. Well, we are going to move on to mrs. Ronald reagan, in the white house from 1981 to 1989. This is my least favorite fashion decade, i have to say. One thing you have to notice is how mrs. Reagan, i would think almost singlehandedly transformed red of communist revolution to the color of republican. All of these men wearing red ties owe a debt to mrs. Reagan for transforming the symbol of this color. Thats a powerful operation to have succeeded. Very powerful. And a wonderful example of fashion really reshaping the image of the white house. You move from the carters who had this very the white house is never going to be casual, but a much more casual, even the inaugural balls were parties, not balls. But a more casual entertaining style. A purposefully more casual look. And then when the reagans were elected, all of the prespeculation is on the hollywood glamour that will come. Mrs. Reagans designer clothes, and what will the style of the white house be . And that was a white tie inaugural ball, the first since the eisenhowers. And just a much more formal white house. So we really do look to her clothes for indicators of what the administration will be like. That is a powerful role to have. And she wears a lot of adolfo. Yes. And galinos. In fact, this is galanos. Last two were adolfo. There was a scandal about her accepting designer clothes as gifts. Was there not . I forgot about that. Were they gifts . If they were, how were they declared and paid for . But she came from a world where this was normal. In hollywood you get swag all the time. All the time. And how to translate that into washington life, which is such a very different thing. A few bumps in the road. Fascinating closet. Everything with a tag. She reported when she wore this dress, to what function, the date in which she wore this dress. Everything is tagged so that you can tell. She does rewear clothes. You can tell when in rotation it had been. Thats a sign of a person really interested in clothes and in her wardrobe. And how she presents herself. Absolutely. Wouldnt greet the same person twice in the same dress. Very thoughtful, i think. [laughter] i think you had that tie on last time i saw you. [laughter] couldnt you get another tie . Exactly. I think he only owns one. And you might. That might be your perception. Absolutely. Im going to start labeling my clothes. On the sentimental side, took a lot of guff for wearing a dress that she had worn for the gubernatorial ball. It was a sentimental choice. Mrs. Reagan, who has this beautiful dress, was also a sentimental journey. He had made the gown for Ronald Reagans gubernatorial inaugural ball one shouldered, white wool. So i think mrs. Reagan was also making a little bit of a sentimental journey. But its a little bit different. If you hire one of americas greatest to make another masterpiece. True. If you pull it out of the closet and walk it out again. And here is another adolfo suit. You wonder why wasnt chanel suing at that point . Here we can copy everybody and its perfectly legal. No, its true. All of this inspiration from europe, i spent a lot of time tracy, you probably did, too, on capitol hill advocating for the design prohibition act. Fashion designers in this nation do not own their intellectual property. Its largely because we were a nation of copiers. There was no incentive to have such laws in place. So we could rip people off right and left. Its perfectly legal. It is. For as many people would like to have intellectual property rights, there are 10 times more who dont want to go down that road. Thats true. It would hurt their business. So were moving on to mrs. Clinton. And how would we describe mrs. Clintons style . The famous pantsuits and the hair problem. [laughter] i think at the heart of it, i just feel like its not important to her. You know what i mean . I think Public Service is very important to her. Yes. But her appearance is like down on the list. She has a lot of things to do today. Mrs. Clinton is looking very president ial these days. She is. Theres definitely an evolution thats been taking place. The bar has been raised. I think since she got to be friends with oscar and donna. At least shes taking notice. I think mrs. Clinton is also this is a problem Rosalynn Carter had. It comes as a surprise and a bit of a shock that people are this interested in your clothes and take such an intense interest in your clothes, or that part of your job was going to be to promote American Fashion. If i do good work, you should be looking at that. But it is a part of the first ladys job to promote American Fashion industry, to promote american looks, and to be a kind of billboard for a large part of our economy. No one tells you that when youre coming in until you start finding out that youre supposed to have these particular looks. Its a very valid thing for the first lady to be doing. Youre an emissary for other things. You should be for American Fashion. Im always talking about the semiotics clothes we wear send a message about how the world perceives us, whomever we happen to be. In the work that ive done on capitol hill, having elected individuals run from me saying, i dont want you to judge me, i didnt know you were going to be here. [laughter] and my response is im never going to judge you providing you accept responsibility for how youre presenting yourself to the world. So if you choose to run, run on your own account but not on mine. You have to think, mrs. Clinton was a lawyer. Lawyers are not the best dressed socioeconomic group in america. Theyre notoriously sort of very conservative, very frumpy. Thats where people think fashion is all about money. If you think take a group of lawyers. Now take a group of hairdressers. Which ones better dressed . Its the hairdressers because theyre interested in fashion. And the lawyers mostly arent. Except when its important for your clients and then theyll say, ok, dress to impress the jury. Youre thinking that way a lot of careful thought. I think mrs. Clinton slowly started to learn that in a way the American Public was like a jury. They were looking. They were judging. Absolutely. So now we have mrs. Bush. Lets move to her style. Seen also with nancy reagan. What would we like to say about mrs. Bushs style, laura bush . Apparently not interested in fashion unlike barbara bush who was very interested. We think of barbara bush looking like a granny with her fake pearls but she was good friends with scoozi and had fancy dresses, whereas laura bush doesnt seem to have been, she wanted to look appropriate and everything, but it wasnt an interest of hers. I just always think of her as being so mild. You see photos of her wearing soft colors. Its relatively demure, nothing thats going to shout out. I think she just has a very gentle, mild presence. No fake cowboy looking like he sometimes would put on. There was an interesting color shift though that went on. She was very taupe, sort of beige when they were running. When she came in, this beautiful red dress. And michael tells a wonderful story about coming actually to see the first ladys exhibit that mrs. Bush asked him to look at the exhibition and see what color hadnt been used it recently, so they didnt repeat a color. He said he didnt see red and red was a favorite color of his and is a gorgeous color on her. So he designed this beautiful sparkly, crimson dress, ruby red dress. As time went on, you noticed mrs. Bush wearing more color and beautiful deep colors which are beautiful on her. I think when you see pictures of yourself that much, you start to see how everyone else is seeing you and you can start to look at yourself in these settings and maybe adjust a little bit. You do also see her turning away from him from regional designers to national designers. There seems to be a trend that your first designer is maybe somebody from home or somebody youve known. And the second designer, at least for the inaugural gown, the second designer is a name that everyone recognizes. I dont know what Lessons Learned are from that. But youve come to know a couple of them for clinton, bush, but i dont think for that many. I dont think we can draw a moral from it yet. I think maybe you just learn your first one might not have been as successful as you wanted. I think mrs. Obama is the only one maybe eisenhower who used the same twice, for both inaugural gowns. Here we have mrs. Obama. I have my biases, i have to say. Tracy, you have dressed our current first lady. An honor, yeah. A number of times. Whats your sense of mrs. Obamas style . You know, i feel like shes just purely an individual who wears what she likes and knows looks good on her. I think she isnt looking so much to the past to see how first ladies have dressed and should dress. Shes really a wome moment. I think its very pure and natural how she presents herself. When you meet her and speak with her, thats what you get. You get this realness. I think for the presidency and for their impact on the world and the country, i think they want to present this realness. Its sincere. Dont you believe . Yeah. Very much is. I think shes had a huge impact on the fashion industry not so much perhaps on the average american woman, though i think the right to bear arms struck a note with a lot of people, but i think that for the fashion industry its been super important. Jason wus career would be nowhere if she hadnt worn his inaugural gown. It was really good for all of those designers. She did kind of spread the wealth. She would have different designers doing dresses. I think it would, it helped a lot of them. She didnt just go to established designers. Exactly. She went to a lot of new, younger designers, slightly more obscure designers. She also wears a lot of Affordable Clothing. Yes. Accessible. Which is amazing. I think that people love to see her wearing something that they can afford to buy. And they do say if shes wearing something, they say its j. Crew, it will be sold out. Its true. The kate effect. It will be gone the next day. There are dresses of ours that shes worn that stores call and i have certain stores that are like, please let us know if you know what shes going to wear because then well order more. You cant predict because they dont call you up the day before or the month before and say shes going to wear this on this date, produce a few extra hundred or thousand dresses. Did you know, i have to say, i think the dress that you designed that she wore at the Democratic Convention is beautiful. Its one of my, i covet that dress. Thank you. For the collection. Did you know she was going to wear that . I did not. We got a phone call, you know, a few weeks in advance saying she had a special engagement and if we had some ideas of something that might be appropriate or that she might like to send them down. Im sure that they called several people the same but they did not say what it was for. I think its the next slide. We had no idea. Literally the dnc, the convention, was on an evening when we were working. We were at the office because it was fashion week. [laughter] a slow period for you. [laughter] and she came on like after 10 00 p. M. Our controller called. She was home. She was like, mrs. Obama is wearing our dress everybody, we had to stream it on the computers. We had no idea until she walked out on stage. And the funny thing with this dress is we had put sleeves on it. [laughter] because they literally said, you know, she doesnt want the emphasis to be on her arms, its an important engagement. So we were like, ok, this is the original style, sleeveless. We put sleeves on it because we thought she might need them. And they removed them because it just looks better without. In she was amazing. Like why cover those up . I know. I have to ask you, whats it like to have the first lady wear your own creations . I cant really define it. Shes someone that i admire greatly. Having met her and been able to speak with her, even more so. Its not just someone out there that youre wondering about. Its someone that youve had the pleasure of getting to know. I just respect her tremendously. And she wears clothes beautifully. I think shes someone people are always excited to see. Its funny, when mr. Obama was running for the presidency the first time, there was a fundraiser thrown in new york. Andwintour was one of the posts of this list of fashion luminaries. It was at a gallery. We get there and its this all white room. You have to shake Anna Wintours hand. Its like, ok. Mrs. Obama gave a speech. It was a very personal speech. And everyone was just getting more and more excited. She was looking at everyone in the crowd. She makes eye contact. She looked directly at me. And then she looked back. Shes speaking. Im looking behind me like, who is she looking at . At you. At the end of the speech, we had the opportunity to meet her. But all of these fancy designers bum rushed the stage. [laughter] it was hilarious. People were shouldering each other out, pushing and shoving. And i was like, where am i . Who are these people . Thats how everybody was jockeying for position and for some kind of favor to touch her arm. It was interesting to see the fashion flock kind of crazy. The fashion flock is a tough, tough crowd. She won everybody over immediately. So capable of that. Lets open the floor to questions. Do we have two mics . One on each side . And we would like very much for you to rise and go to the mic because we want everyone in the audience to hear your question. Hello. Hi there. Thank you so much for being here tonight. Obviously at the archives, weve been looking back at the history of first lady fashion, but were living in an age where we might actually see the first woman president. And so i was wondering if you all might like to speculate about what president ial lady fashion might look like. [laughter] [applause] well, theres certainly been a number of female leaders around the world now so weve seen a variety of different styles. I think its going to depend a lot on the particular person. If its hillary clinton, i think that what she evolved into over the course of the last years or last 20 years or so is probably going to be Something Like what youll see. Someone who was initially not particularly interested in fashion but who began to understand more about how it can work and got to be friends with some fashion designers and who accept that it has a role in how people view you because she is a supremely intelligent woman. So i would assume that it would have something of a role, but probably not as much as if it were someone like Michelle Obama who i feel has a more natural sort of love of fashion and a more experimental feeling. And there i think some of the same rules would apply, that the clothing would have to seem to be appropriate, powerful and yet womanly. Maybe not feminine in the Mamie Eisenhower sense, so you dont want to look like a imitation man. I also think that now is such a wonderful time for women in business. We have so much more choice. Theres so much less dictated to us. I think theres power in being sexy. You know, im not saying overtly sexy, but theres power in it. And women are starting to feel that. And use it more. So it would be interesting to see what could transpire. And im always saying there are profound differences in the two genders. And show them off. Work it. Yeah. If nothing else, it would be amazing to see color at a president ial press conference. [laughter] this is true. It would be a first. Hello. I think weve shown tonight that its fun to laugh at first ladies for their fashion mistakes and that critics have been doing it for a few hundred years, but i think it becomes sort of problematic when you think about the implications it has on gender equality. And i think its been interesting in the past few months, especially, to look at how people have been criticizing mr. Obamas fashion. His summer suit got a lot of press recently. And i was wondering if you thought that that indicated something about gender equality when it comes to fashion that everyones an equal target now. I think more and more thats becoming the case. If you look at Something Like womens wear daily, sort of the bible for the fashion industry, they regularly rate men. They dont do it with women. They only do it with men. They grade them. And theyre harsh graders. So its like cminus detailing everything from the haircut to the collar, to the pants being too long, to the shoes being wrong. So i think very much were becoming more and more of visually literate society. I think people are looking at mens clothes as well as womens clothes now more than they ever more than theyve been for a long time. I will add, men have escaped the criticism. Its high time that they come under the microscope as well. [applause] its true. When you think about it, these are not people, they didnt go into their business because they were interested in fashion. You have to feel sorry for people in a way who were thrust into theyve chosen to be in this limelight, but its like the lawyers. This wasnt what they were expecting. Again, its always a shock, i think, especially for the men, to find out that people are going to critique what theyre wearing. You know, the president s dad jeans or a badly cut suit. They should be criticized. [laughter] this is just not what they thought they were going to be graded on. But there will be no improvement without criticism. Thats true. And on that note, though, i was at a gala last weekend. There were so many senior gentlemen who were wearing tuxedos from 1980. [laughter] i think there should be a rule. Give it up. At least every 10 years update , your tux. If your shoulders are out to here and its sagging and your pants are very full and breaking, its time. [laughter] it is definitely time. Time for an incinerator. And women will appreciate it. Tracy, im a huge fan of your designs. Thank you. In the future will we see more designs where you switch out a bodice . Are your outfits convertible . I like the idea, actually. The twopiece dressing is trending. We call that having a top and skirt and in the same print or fabric. Its actually kind of trending. So we can switch out some bodices sooner than you might think. Look forward to it. Thank you. Can i ask you a question, tracy. Does it help with fit when you have two pieces as opposed to one . It does. Hardly any woman is the same size up and down. Im like two sizes larger on the bottom than on the top. I think a lot of people have that issue. Either theyre bigger on top or bigger on the bottom. Its incredible that anything fits. You know . We work really hard on it. You put stretch in it things you try different silhouettes that might be more flexible. But no two women are the same size. There are a few. My fit model is the same size up and down. Thats her job. She keeps it that way. I think most women are different sizes up and down. Do we have only two people with questions . Come up. I could just stand. Im loud. [laughter] e talked about you know why . This is being taped for the National Archives. We have to have your voice. Now im really nervous. Dont be. Hello, cspan. [laughter] i have a question, all 12 of you , about your remarks about us being a nation of copycats traditionally. Given that American Design is so resurgent right now, do you think first ladies should make a commitment to only wearing American Made clothes and American Designers . What do we think . I think that its good if first ladies can favor American Designers and a range of them, like mrs. Obama. Not just the famous ones who dont need her help. But i do think that having a kind of litmus test where you say if you wear any foreign design, thats not playing fair, i think thats infringing on her freedom as a woman and as an individual. If she wants to wear an Alexander Mcqueen dress or sweater, im opposed to anybody telling people what you can and cant wear. It was a litmus test in the past, though, interestingly. It was. First ladies would proudly proclaim that they only wore american clothes. Sometimes in support of tariffs. But sometimes it was a lie. Yes. [laughter] thank you. Hi. Hi. I heard comments about Affordable Clothing that was worn by mrs. Obama and also the red dress that was worn by nancy reagan. And the implications in terms of accessibility to Affordable Clothing and the impact of this power red with the republican party. And im interested if you can speak a little bit more about the role of the first lady and how her style can speak volumes to the climate of the nation through whether its the selections they make based on the economy, just like the Affordable Clothing, or the politics of style, so to speak. I know weve talked a lot tonight about individual styles, but its an interesting thing to think of how the first lady represents the nation and where we are at the time that they are in the white house. Well, i think that most first ladies want to create an image which is not just about expressing them as an individual but they understand that theyre also expressing something about their Husbands Administration and the politics of that. So whether its more or less egalitarian or more or less kind of an elite style, thats going to be played out in the clothing. Its not very often that theyre going to make a very overtly political or partisan statement in their clothing. Because most of the time none of us do that. And first ladies probably also not very much. I think that there is a role for emphasizing things that you believe in and that are going to express something about what you feel you and your husband and the administration are for. You know, so that if you want to express something about being a young, modern, dynamic, egalitarian regime that you would be trying to use clothing in one way to say that. And even, sorry with mrs. Obama and childhood obesity, trying to bring attention to that and the idea of being fit and having beautiful arms, being very fit herself and very active, i think that keeps it top of mind when you see her. This is a modern woman whos fit and active and is working to help the country be fit and active. And i will add, and largely on your behalf, tracy, the first lady today and in the past will wear the work of current designers. And designers across disciplines, particularly fashion designers, are a barometric gauge of our society and culture. They design a societal, cultural, historic, political and economic. By definition of what theyre wearing theyre reflecting the times in a manner of speaking. We have had a few first ladies who have used clothes, Eleanor Roosevelt is an excellent example. Readymade clothing, more and more people are buying. She does talk about how even busy women like her, a rich society woman, likes to buy off the rack but she makes a point of cautioning against buying from sweatshops. You should buy unionmade garments. Hoover, not the first person you think of when you think of fashion, but the first first lady to appear in vogue and someone who made best dressed lists in washington, d. C. During the depression makes a point of promoting cotton clothing to promote the southern cotton industry. Tried a cotton evening gown. It didnt catch on. [laughter] but gave it a shot. And proudly proclaimed this in the newspapers to try and use their clothes and influence to make a really political or economic statement. Thank you. That goes way back. Napoleon urged josephine to wear more silk because it helped the poor silk weavers who were all starving. Wear silk. Bring silk back in fashion. Yes. Hi. Hi. I was wondering if each of you had a favorite in terms of the different senses of style for each first lady, which would be your favorite for each of you . I have my favorite. [laughter] i think we share that favorite. Yeah. I really do like mrs. Obamas style. Its so eclectic. Because its been so meaningful for so many people that i know in the industry so exciting. You didnt know i remember Isabel Toledo saying she didnt know mrs. Obama was going to wear her dress and coat. It was just pandemonium at the house when they saw it. I always say its like asking a mother to choose between her children. They all come to me in the end. I loved helen tafts clothes. [laughter] after 15 minutes, its my dress anyway. I watch the inauguration and its beautiful and then i start thinking, dont step on my train. And then, of course, from a fashion perspective, its always the next one. Which might be the next first gentleman. [laughter] that will be interesting. I actually wanted to question on what the earlier person said. If we do have a madam president , will the smithsonian have the tux that the gentleman wears . [laughter] the first laddie. The smithsonians definition of first lady this sounds like a copout. Its not. The smithsonians definition of first lady is established 100 years ago. It was the mistress of the white house. And really its the person that fills the role of first lady. So harriet lane isnt necessarily a wife. Its the person who fills the particular role. So we will have to wait and see how the white house, that presidency deals with the role of first lady and who will be serving that function. Youre always going to be the host and hostesses in your own home, but who will be taking on the roles traditionally played by the first lady and will that person be the first lady . I am looking forward to putting that first inaugural womans suit in the presidency exhibit, though. Hi. Hello. Thank you so much for this. If we could talk more about how shoes and accessories factor into this being that its something we all care about and its a huge part of the fashion industry. And its that head to toe look. Its not just the apparel. True. There have only been a few occasions when the accessories have really come to the floor. Notoriously, of course, with mrs. Kennedys pillbox hat and conversely when jack kennedy did not wear a hat, which put one more nail on to the hat industry but it was going out anyway. And with shoes, nowadays shoes are so important to us and handbags. But historically theyve really had been seen as just accessories to the main dress. Whats changed so much, partly because i think weve become so much freer in terms of fashion, its now often the accessories are the main thing. A lot of people will dress now from the feet up. You probably have a lot of shoes and hats and accessories. We have a reasonable amount of shoes and hats. Shoes more than hats because well frequently get the entire ensemble because fewer people are wearing hats. Actually, my favorite shoes right now are the red shoes mrs. Obama wore with the second inaugural gown. We still have a picture of the white outfit, the first outfit up. When you look at that, its the beautiful train and some high heels. And the second dress has no train and kitten heels. So you sort of wonder, hmm. One night spent in that and what did you its amazing how many people comment. Thats one of the things they want to look at. Were trying to put more shoes out now. It is such an interest. I think shoes are becoming more and more interesting in design and in our focus on them. We dont see first lady handbags. Probably ever. A few evening bags. A few evening bags. No day bags. I think its in the car or someone is holding it. Yes, they almost all have an inaugural purses made by judith leiber. We have a run of her purses. I think it became a tradition at a certain point. The two individuals standing will be our last two questions. Well begin with you. Thank you. So d. C. Does not really have the reputation for being a very fashion forward city. So my question is, with the emphasis on first lady fashion and even to the extent members of congress that are women and their fashion choices, what impact do you think that emphasis has on d. C. Residents, lawyers and lobbyists included and being a little more savvy when it comes to their own style . Can i jump in and say i wish it had an impact . [laughter] truly. Were trying. Were trying. I think people need to break out of the box. I think its a very conservative town because of the politics, i guess. And everyone is aligned and everyone is in a certain camp. And that camp dresses the same. But i think being individual and kind of standing for self is equally important. It would be great to see people express themselves. Anything to add . Hi. Hi. My question goes back to Jackie Kennedy and just the impact she had on fashion. How much of that impact do you think was due to technology evolving and television becoming such a main impact . I think that was an important factor in it. She could be covered so extensively. There would be photographs and television. But celebrity is something that technology can elaborate celebrity but it doesnt cause celebrity. I think even had she lived earlier, she probably would have had a very powerful impact because she was so much into high style and into using the high style. I think quite selfconsciously and intelligently as a way of trying to promote the presidency as being very modern, very young, etc. I think the very chic clothes helped with that. There was nothing oldfashioned about it. Theres also, every few first ladies just take the public imagination. Jacqueline kennedy, francis cleveland, Jacqueline Kennedy of the th century. Of the 19th century. Its the same sort of just this is the person the public looks at and cant get enough of. That was first lady without that many cameras. She just becomes a fixture for america. No matter what shes doing, what shes wearing, you want to know more. Mrs. Cleveland, mrs. Kennedy, mrs. Obama is someone that just the public seized on them. Celebrity is a strange thing. Fashion celebrities in particular. Its an amazing, people will just identify whether or not in fact they look anything like the person. I remember when the wonderful Jackie Kennedy showed at the costume institute. There were lines and lines of adoring people wearing baggy shorts and fanny packs and flipflops. Going to worship wearing that . [laughter] very good question. Lisa kathleen graddy, valerie steele, tracy reese, thank you so very, very much. And thanks, thank all of you. Thank you. [applause]
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