Transcripts For CSPAN3 Federal Equipping Of Local Police For

Enforcement experts and others on whether the police responsible was correct, measured and appropriate. In thinking about these issues well be discussing today, i cant help but think about how in my own stair learning all over again the value of our Police Spending more time outside of their police cars, working, talking every day with people in the community, and engaging them in positive ways. As you might imagine, this helps build the bonds of trust and strengthen communities in the way that is armed personnel, vehicles and assault weapons never can. Weve convened in helping state and local police do their important work. Since 1997, federal agencies supplied over 5 billion in Surplus Department of defense supplied and equipment to Law Enforcement. In addition, both the departments of justice and Homeland Security Administration Grant programs that also can pay for militarystyle gear such as armored vests and vehicles. In light of the events in ferguson, our committee has reviewed through all the federal agencies in providing equipment, supplies and weapons to state and local Law Enforcement. Our staff has received briefings from the agencies and has reviewed key documents. This review by congress is long overdue. The federal witness with us today will describe the programs that can supply tactical and military style equipment, and weapons to Law Enforcement in the current oversight requirements and procedures. Well hear from a second panel of witnesses with Critical Knowledge and opinions of these programs, including some with Law Enforcement backgrounds. Well explore the proper roles and techniques for use this equipment. Well also examine whether congress should do more to hold accountable the Police Department who obtain phi indicated equipment. These programs were established with a very good intention, to provide equipment that would help Law Enforcement perform their duties. The question is whether what our police match what they truly need to uphold the law. We need to ago knowledge there have you been instances where police have been outgund by heavily armed criminals. In addition we all remember well how helpful some of these programs were to enable to police to perform extraordinarily well in the aftermath from the boston bombings. Without these programs of course the job of Law Enforcement it to protect the lives and wellbeing of the people of our nation. So well also hear from witnesses with expertise on the sift rights issues that arise 1ru89 of these programs. Its my hope that we in congress and other government leaders learn from what is discussed in todays hearing and from the ongoing developments in ferguson and in similar situations across the country. In closing, were here today because we have a responsible to ensure accountability of funds and equipment provided by the federal government to state and local police. It is our job to ensure that these programs provide value to police, to the community they serve, and to taxpayers. Dr. Coburn. Good morning. Thank you to our witnesses for appears, in both this panel and the second one. Thank you to the chairman for convening this hearing. As i look at my short time left remaining in congress and having traveled for two weeks in oklahoma in august, i am brought contingencies t constantly and frequently back to the position of our founders, and not only their vision, but their wisdom. Protect and serve. Our founders saw no role for the federal government in state and local Police Forces. None. And yet what we have seen is, on the basis of what we saw on 9 11, what seems to be an overreaction and a progress to where the federal government in Law Enforcement is doing the same thing its done in every other area whether it comes to the general welfare clause and the commerce clause. And were on dangerous ground. Of undermining the very principles that built the country. Its hard to see a difference between the militaryized and increasingly federalize d and te force that madison had in mind when he said a Standing Military force with an overgrown executive will not long be a safe companion to liberty. I have some real heartburn with not just the 1033 program, with the grants, with some of the Justice Department grants and with a lot of the Homeland Security grants in terms of how theyve been utilized, what theyve been utilized for, so i look forward to hearing from our witnesses. I have some significant questions. The 1033 program has been around a long time. It was not just in response to this, but i think we need to have a good airing. We need to recenter where we are. There is no role for the federal government in the local and state Police Forces in our country. I hope we can winnow that out today to see where weve stepped across the line and actually have created some problems that wouldnt have been there otherwise. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, dr. Coburn. Im going to ask once shes given her opening statement, im going to ask senator mccaskill to introduce our witnesses, and id lead off the questions, then well have to leave before 11 15 for a meeting in the capitol. But in the meantime youre chairing. Thank you. Thank you, chairman carper, i want to thank you and dr. Coburn for the interests you have shown in todays hearing. I know your decision to elevate this hearing to the full Committee Level is a sign of your commitment to oversight in these very important areas. Im appreciative of the fact it has elemented to the full committee. I first approached chairman carper to hold this hearing because of the shock and sadness i felt as i saw events unfolding in ferguson, missouri in the weeks following the death of michael brown. I heard reports and say firsthand about Aggressive Police actions being used against protesters under the umbrella of, quote, crowd control. Not in response to violence, like many of you, i saw Armored Vehicle with his a sniper pointing a rifle at an unarmed protester on a warm summer afternoon. I think most americans were uncomfortable watching a suburban street in st. Louis being transformed with vivid images, powerful images akros this country into a war zone, complete with camouflage, tear gas, rubber bullets, Armored Vehicles and laser sights on assault weapons. While this hearing may reveal many strong arguments why some of this equipment may be helpful for the safety of Police Officers in certain situation, i am confident that militaryized policing tactics are not consistent with the peaceful exercise of First Amendment rights of free speech and free assembly. Those lawful Peaceful Protesters on the wednesday day afternoon in ferguson, missouri, did not deserve to be treated lie enemy combatants. I am hoping that what happened in ferguson and what we learned at this hearing today will inform a better Public Policy that will protect our constitutional freedoms and also provide adequate Public Safety for the brave men and women who put on a uniform every day to protect the people of this great nation through our very admirable rule of law. The federal government has played a significant role in enabling Police Departments across the country to acquire the military weapons, vehicles and other types of equipment we saw used in ferguson. The department of defenses 1033 program, which was authorized in its current form in 1997, giving away dod surplus equipment for free to state and local Law Enforcement. Much of the equipment is as minute day and Office Furniture and microwaves, but the department of defense is also giving local Law Enforcement Million Dollar tactic vehicles, including the mraps. They are heavily Armored Vehicle built to with withstand roadside bombs. These are vehicles so heavy that they can tear up roads and the department of defense knows this, yet it continue toss provide these vehicle toss local Law Enforcement agencies across the nation. According to information provided by department of defense, in just the last three years, the department of defense has given 624 mraps to state and local Law Enforcement agents seemingly without regard to need or size of the agency that has received them. At least 13 Law Enforcement agencies with fewer than ten fulltime sworn officers received an mrap in the last three years. The number of mraps in the possession of local police and sheriffs is far higher than the mraps in possession of our countrys National Guard. In texas, for example, local Law Enforcement agencies have 73 mraps, the National Guard has only six. In florida local Law Enforcement agencies have 450 mraps, the National Guard has zero. I would like to ask for unanimous consequence sent the information provided to me from the Defense Department by included in the record today. Without objection. Also the department of Justice Information received about conextent decrees into the record. Without objection. I question whether state and local Law Enforcement agencies need this kind of equipment and certainly whether they need it more than our states National Guards. One of the key Lessons Learned through the wars is the idea we had to win the hearts and minds, and one of the ways the military try to do do that was by acting more like a police force, working with communities, helping to repair broken windows, damaged property, and trying to appear less militaristic with their presents in the communities. I find it ironic that at the same time we are embracing those tactics as strong evidence of progress against a counter insurgency, we are infact underlining a mill tarization of our domestic Police Departments. I also have questions about i why the Defense Department about why the Defense Department is giving away some of these material. According to the defense lo jestics agency, and well have a witness to testify momentarily, approximately 36 of the equipment that is given away to Law Enforcement is brand new. Let me say that again. 36 of the equipment that has been given away is brand new. Now, well give you a chance to counter that. That was the information we received from telephone la. Even if its not 36 , if any of it is brand new, then theres a real question about what are we doing . Why are we buying thing and the department of defense merely to turn around and give them away. All of it, weapons, tactical equipment, Office Supplies is still usable and identical or similar items will be needed or bought newby the Defense Department again. It doesnt appear that buying new equipment and spending money to replace is an an effective use of the defendant departments resources. Local Law Enforcement agencies are requires military time of from grants. If fy2014, department of Homeland Security made available over 400 million under its state Homeland Security program, and another 587 million under its urban Area Security Initiative Grant program. Though those these grants cant be used to buy weapons, they do fund vehicles, and non and the burn jag program which received 376 million proposes gives state and local Law Enforcement agencies for funding from everything from mobile data terminals, lethal and nonlethal to Office Supplies and uniforms, and to provide the maintenance funds to maintain the expensive vehicles that have been given them by the department of defense. These Grant Programs provide important assistance to state and local Law Enforcement agencies. However, it is impossible to tell how these federal funds are being spent, because department of Homeland Security and department of justice dont track the purchases or keep adequate data, so we just cant know. From asking they agencies how much military equipment or anything else that local Law Enforcement agencies are actually buying. In fact, it is possible that either or both of these prams are funding Police Department in fact to maintain and sustain the same equipment theyre getting for free from another federal agency. Im confident that many Police Departments are providing training to ensure that any use of force is necessary and appropriate. And we must do everything we can to make sure our Law Enforcement officers, the brave men and women have the equipment they need to maximize their own safety. But we also have to acknowledge that giving military grade vehicles and weapons to every Police Officers and police force first question and yield and we will be on our way. Thank you. Our first witness is ellen estavez, the Principal Deputy under self defense at the u. S. Department of defense. He has managed military logistics, acquisitions and supplies for department of defense since 2002 and have overseen military acquisitions worth more than 170 billion. He has worked with the offices of the secretary of defense since 1981. Brian kamoy the assistant administrator for Grant Programs to build, sustain and improve our National Capability to prepare for, protect against, respond to, recover from and mitigate hazards. He served on the White House National security staff and department of health and human services. Carol mason, assistant attorney general and oversees annual budget an array of juvenile Justice Programs, wide range of research, evaluation and statistical efforts and comprehensive services for crime victims and previously oversaw office of Grant Programs. We would like to thank you for appearing today and we look forward to your testimony. Mr. Estavez, you may begin. Mr. Chairman, because i have a conflict later this morning, can i submit a statement for the record, please . I want to associate myself with the remarks and thank her for her leadership. Feel free to summarize. You go much over five minutes i have to rein you in. Thank you members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before the committee and discuss the importance of transfer of excess military property to Law Enforcement agencies. I appreciate the Committee Supporting the department and continued interest in insuring success of our mission. Following events in ferguson, missouri, i think it is appropriate to address issues. As you know my written testimony has more detail and i will submit it to the record. The transfer of excess property is congressionally authorized program. The program has provided property that ranges from Office Equipment and supplies to equipment that augmentes local capabilities and enhances first responses. More than 8,000 local and federal Law Enforcement agencies actively participate in the program. More than 5. 1 billion of property has been provided since 1990. A key element in both the structure and execution of the program is the state coordinator who is appointed by the respective state governor. State coordinators review all properties submitted by the agencies along with the statement of intended use. Working with state coordinators Law Enforcement agencies determining need determine how it is used. Department of defense does not have police force functions and cannot assess how equipment is used in individual Law Enforcement agencies. Within the past 12 months Law Enforcement agencies received approximately 1. 9 million pieces of excess equipment. 1. 8 million pieces of noncontrolled office type equipment and 78,000 co