anti-library on these people. >> you what? i told them and i warned them beforehand that i hate libraries, and so, but, one of the striking things that i have been talking to people for weeks about, and preparing for this, and it is that people have childhood memories in particular of the libraries and when they first got, and they are the favorite moments and curious if they can start, and i have to introduce you, my goodness, and to my left, susan hild rhett is the former director of the museum and library service, and senate appointed service, and treasurer of the american library association, and to her left is the director of the director of the future of the center for libraries and initiative of the american library association examining library innovation and the communities they serve and finally susan packer who is the deputy university librarian at ucla where she builds university design and serves at the the library's chief financial officer. susan parker, let me start with you. favorite library moment or, and/or, and what do you like about libraries? aren't you sick of them, and if you have been working in a fast food joint and you stop eating it. and do you still like libraries? >> i like libraries. they are a place that obviously i feel very comfortable. and i -- that is one of the things that attracted me to the libraries and kept me coming back is that it is a place where i was always welcome even as a small child and so you will develop after ffection for the e who treat you kindly and even more so, they lure you in with bigger and better books and you will be excited about reading and thinking and looking things up. >> is there a moment in your childhood where you said, this is the coolest place? >> well, probably the first time that i ever went in, too, it was cincinnati, ohio, and the west side, and the public library over there, and the first time they i went in there i said, this is thele coolest thing. i had seen books before but not that many books. >> ah, very good. and miguel, what is your fondest library memory and why do you like libraries? >> well, a lot of people have fond memories of libraries, because they are welcoming and a first degree of responsibility as a a child. i remember that you got the phoenix public library used to be a yellow card, but it is laminated and it felt so adult, and so you could do so many thing, and a tangible expression of the sign of the growth and the opportunity, and responsibility that, you know, it is -- it opens up things to, you and it is a predriver's license of sorts. >> oh, my goodness, the state hath deputized you. oh, my goodness. susan hildrich, your favorite moment in a childhood library? >> i was and only child and moved a lot as a child. so i would usually move after school got out, and i would hit a new community and have no friends and what would i be do manage the summer? i would go to that library. so it was my second home, and very special to me, and welcoming to me, and really the libraries and the books were my friends, and i think that they helped me early on the become a librarian, because i found many years ago a pap er from junior high where i said that i wanted to do this. so it e made me feel good when i was very young. >> do you recall the reason that you wanted to do that in the paper? >> well, i think it is because frankly,le al e though it does not work today, i did not want to be a teacher. and librarians have to want to teach today and i d did not wid to be a nurse and i am old enough that there weren't many choices and i knew that i could find a job anywhere in the u.s. >> and did you want to leave your hometown, pat of the -- >> well, ugh -- >> curious, you could get a job anywhere. >> i wanted to be mobile and not so much that i wanted to run away, but i was growing up in the time when people got out of college and they left home. they didn't go back home. that is what i wanted to do. >> that is a dig. and so we have dispensed with the warm and fuzzy part, and i did, again, talking to the people about the bad things about libraries and the first thing and no disrespect to anybody was homeless and porn. second thing was what is it for? my father who is a library freak and he lives in burbank and he said that last week, they advertised that it was so hot that everybody could go to the library. is that library as a cooling center. library as, you know, the porn -- i don't know, porn distribution, and library as a place to sleep in the day. and that irks a lot of people. and people don't understand it, and the people don't -- and can you just, and one of you had spoken to it earlier and said, hit it head-on and talk about the homelessness and the porn at the library and maybe it is or isn't a problem? >> well, so having worked in many urban libraries in my career, and dealing with all kinds of customers and population populations is challenging, and we are one of the only free opportunities for people to come out of the cold and the heat and whatever, and in terms of dealing with people who are homeless, we want to make sure that we are tri tying to help t in their struggle, and so for instance, the san francisco public library and many others have social workers on duty to do intervention with folk, and libraries have many well thought out rules of conduct, because we expect everyone to behave so we have a safe and comfortable environment. that is how we deal with the people of all different kinds of vagaries and also that has to do with the issue of pornography and whoing at ip appropriate information and our co codes of conduct deal with that. and i have said in previous interviews with regard to the porn, sorry, folks, but people have been looking at porn and masturbating this in public library s fies for a long time e have been having to deal with itt for a long time, and hoppestly, it is a different containers they say in a way. >> different visual, and you grimace at that, susan parker, and you can go next. >> well, i can tell you that you may think that a person is homeless by the way they look, but you don't know that. e think that the libraries are trying to be places where they are not judgment on those levels. and when you have had a crisis so many years back, you will see that we had to roll back the library at the undergraduate library and we heard right away that we had homeless students at ucla and news to me, and opened my eyes that they were depending on the library as part of the support system at night. so since a lot of us were surprised to learn this, because you don't know necessarily by looking at this what the situation is dealinging with this, and so the libraries tra traditionally are about el helping people in the private way. you know, i dont n't know the identity of everybody, and privacy in the library is a key element. >> and so, suzy, you mentioned that the introduction of a social worker in san francisco and before we get to that, what year is that? do you recall? >> we began working with the department of social services when i started to work there which i believe is 2004 and now they have a full time social worker on staff, for several years, and it is helping our population. >> and at some point, does that possibly dilute to the possibility of in some way making librarians and libraries responsible for the social ills that all of us should be at the ending to. and you guys are so generous that you will el hehelp. and is there a limit to what you can do with the library. >> we unfortunately exist in a lot of the for mall services that would support mental health issues and poverty issues have been stripped away and whether it is because of the economy or other political decision, and because the libraries is among the few civic assets that is open to other people, it is inevitably what happens, and the real libraries can be a part of the solutions, and they engage with the commune e ti partners and whether it is a public health worker, and tucson public library has a nurse on staff, and social workers and relationships with the public showers and food banks and other types of things. and the library can be a fundamental platform for lots of players in the community to come together for a wonderful distribution channel not only for the information and book format or the database format or the eformat, but general civic information. >> and so for all of you at no point tending to the social ills make your primary jobs which is to presuming to distribute and archiving general information to the public, does it come into conflict with the aspects of the job? >> we are responsible to provide the information and where you can go to get a mealer or where a shelter is, and we are responsible for the information. the one thing about the pornography though, it is always coming back to that. if you have available access to free information, it is going to be used towards some of the more negative end, and case in point, new york city introduced the link nyc kiosks in place of the telephone booths and they will be disabling the internet on them, and individuals were using them for pornography. >> and they could have asked the librarians about it. >> and yes, it is tip formation of the nation, and it is the nature of the free public place. >> and so, this pew research center survey, and 2016 most recently on libraries and 69% of the respondents say that the local libraries contribute a hot to the safe place for people to spend time. what i have found, and it is interesting and not surprising, but what did surprise me is that 58% think they contribute a lot towards creating educational opportunities for people of all ages. and so that the notion of safe space actually had more respondents saying yes than the notion of creating educational opportunities. does it surprise you. and it doesn't. and it is -- >> i cannot read your face very well. and it is slightly surprised. >> oh, well, no. >> and it does not surprise me, because i think that people do, and safe spaces especially in the contemporary societies is more and morel valuable. neutral space. and so people are seeking that, as much as the numbers are very close, and as much as they are seeking educational opportunity, and you won't say that come the 69 and the 58 are close, but not close numbers. >> and 11%. >> and so when did libraries become just starting to play that role of safe space, does anybody know? >> well, we have always played the role of safe space in the communities, and that is a very consistent role and valued by our communities on our behalf, and just in terms of the educational statistic. there are are many people who i think that many people who may not use libraries or not be as aware of the libraries, and they don't understand the role that libraries play in educating all of ages, and all levels in the community. libraries brand as books and many folks still think of folks as book warehouses, and we have gone far beyond that and depending who pew was surveying, i don't believe that everyone understands that we are part of the educational eco system in our communities. all filling in the gaps after school, weekends, so that educational role is critical, but i don't believe it is as recognized as i would like it to be. i a talk about it constantly that important role. >> and the societyt is shifting and the idea of common education is front of the room to the audience, but increasingly we are looking at how important peer-to-peer learning is and facilitated learning and those are things that have always happened in the library and maybe a delay of recognizing that what we do is of educational value, but it has helped people grow as individuals. >> i find it odd that you say that the link has not caught, because to me that is the number one link, and that is where you find the books that are for education, and anyways, that is odd that, none of you think that it is odd that safe space comes before learning? >> no. >> i find it a branding issue, and it is still part of the what is the library for that you are all saying that it is for all of these thing, but it is a hard thing in america when you can't in this day and age that you can't say that something is principle reason for being is. i don't get it for me, so far what the principle reason for being is, and so far it is everything. what don't you do, susan parker. >> there is some things that i won't do, yes. and this thing about the safe space is maybe more important today. if you have asked that question to an audience ten years ago it may not have resonated the same way, and another important library moment for me as a child is to be able to have the privacy in the library to go and look up information that is maybe kept from me at home. and if you have, you know, young people who are gay or trans or any number of situations that db >> that is interesting -- >> it is a safe place for people to find out about themselves. >> and so it is a safe place intellectually. >> yes, and maybe that is the library's best brand, because people want to contest what is contained in the library, because they care what message people have access to. >> and the value for intellectual freedom is still fundamental to the work that we do. >> and what are some of the classic arguments for the necessaity of libraries has bee that they exist to nurture and enlighten an electorate. and again, i will let that lie [ laughter ] i am obsessed. i am sorry. is that true? is that that still true? i mean, you are all going to say yes, it s but i am not going to the library to look up prognostications and polls today, i am going on the web. >> and one of the challenges that we are facing is that there are multiple spaces where people are segmenting themselves into, and we have private clubs and starbucks and other coffee houses, and we don't have the opportunity to mix anymore, and the public library are remains one of the civic spaces where you encounter people from different perspectives and on the level playing field and it is not necessarily a programmed space where you have to do certain thing, and you are allowed to engage in thing, and our society is tending to move to spaces that we are spending less time together, and so i worry if we continue to play that role, and if city support libraries and community libraries can and should, then we can move towards that. >> and miguel, you mentioned starbucks, and it plays a, and they seek to be a place where people convene and read even. all sorts of the a cafe culture, and does that in any way din nish the popularity or compete with the libraries at all for that role? >> i think that it is funny that even as i look at the coffee houses and the restaurants of different types, they are trying to become more neutral spaces where the sole transaction is not the menu item and they want you to to come in and work and socialize with friends and do lots of different things, but i worry that always comes at a cost. it is funny they are stealing a lot of the elements that make libraries what they are. we have always allowed you the to do any number of things that you want and you could self-direct how you could function within a library and you don't have to give anything to the loyaltyp app or order off of the menu or anything else, and you can come in here and be who you are, and you get the be a little worried and i don't know if you are intentionally doing it, but they are taking something away from the libraries. >> this is interesting, because i think that when you said that there is more corporation to create civic space and third places. >> at a cost. >> yes. >> and you have to pay for the latte, right? >> you think that it might be, and you see it as a threat. and potential threat. i think that it could be a potential threat. it is also should be taken as a compliment to a certain extent to say that we are doing it the right way for a long time and e we hope that people become aware that you are paying for the are freedom in the spaces with your user data, and by signing into the wi-fi networks and by any one of a fnumber of things. >> are there efforts afoot in libraries across the country to createt new ways to convene people, and to -- >> yes, i definitely think that there are many ways. we have had a convening role in our history, but for instance, many public libraries have embarked on maker spaces which are great opportunities to allow kids and families to be krcreate together, and there are many ways to be engaging the people, and teen spaces and all kinds of things, but in terms of the question about the dem kocracy d u how are we supporting democracy, i think that libraries have a great opportunity to really take on the significant role as a community facilitator, and there is so much, i think dissension in some of the communities as we have segmented groups, and the library can play the role of bringing those controversial groups together. and now, when we do that, and i think that we will see it in some areas, it could be clashing somewhat with our very much are respected role of neutrality. and so, neutrality is a huge l value for libraries, and if we do get into the space of bringing different differing points of view together, it is a huge service to the community, and we can support informational resources to understand the discussions, but we have to make sure that we are traped to do that effectively, and so we don't want to lose that concept of being a neutral place. >> and so the -- the function of enlighteninging the electorate is something like this, a convening more than simply providing information? >> right, yes. >> and suzy, any thoughts on that? >> yes, i do. because in ucla for example, we provide a lot of the public programming this the open not just for anyone, but to the university and on a range of topics. sometimes it is designed to highlight the check shuns that we have, and -- collections th have, and especially if they relate to los angeles. and depending on the library and the the focus, they may convene even cure yat the audiences that are defined in ways like hearing are from art from this one art expert and then look at the paintings on display next door. so there is a different combinations to do that. libraries are definitely very forward in looking at the programming and trying to convene different kinds of interactions. >> and so, more on the third spaces. miguel, do you envision evolution of this? is there any as this competition occurs as you see it, how are the libraries and will this be a convening be a larger function in 20 years than it is now in libraries. >> i think that we see the libraries rearranging the spaces to make available for flexible seating and go in to rearrange the furniture. >> not anymore. >> and so they were designed in a lot of ways like that, and a opportunities for the multi functional spaces, and a maker space one day and auditorium seating the next day and those types of things. we wanted flexibility to accommodate the range of opportunities that communities want to the take the on, and so it is no longer to take on the space of the work and the home, but we are third space between what we wanted to do today and tomorrow. >> and are you like the most are responsive arm of government in some levels? >> absolutely. [ laughter ] i have to say -- >> that is a soft pause. >> and i nknow that people love the fire department, but you don't want them to come, because then you would have fire. but, you know, i think that libraries are so beloved and respected by their communities and one of the challenges is that sometimes folks don't understand, well, in a way, it is good if we are seen as not part of the government, and sometimes it is not that positive and on the other hand, people jgenerally don't have a very clear understanding in particular of how public libraries are funded. they see it on the corner, and expect it to be there and it is going to be there and they are funded in different way s as an is complicated and it can be difficult, but i are really do think that in terms of the ability to help our communities, and also to be a gateway to other government functions that people have a hard time understanding the libraries are the place to do that. >> i want to get to the reading for a second. i find myself which is depressing and a little late adopter to all thing, so i have youngle employees who teach me how to use computers and so it is depressing that i was using the philip book on rwandan genocide and i found myself reading it on the phone. it seemed wrong. there is a kendal app on my phone, but i was away from the kendal and i was waiting for my wife, and what is great and i can still read, right? there is something disrespectful and unfill filling, and slig slightly, and it was not sort of the relaxing sensual experience of the nice dreaming of the leather chair that i never bought. but you know what we i mean? it seemed like a diminishing reading experience and is there something to that or should i just get the hell over it? >> well, there is something to it. i'm not a digital native and there is something about that that is not comfortable for me, but more convenient and when we ask the students would you rather have the print books or the ebooks and they say, well, print books, because they help us to learn better and we have extensive -- >> why? >> why? because they can focus. sometimes the students have many devices on at the same time the, and many apps open which is a distraction, and there is nothing about the book except for you in the book. >> is there any research to that effect? >> u i am citing a research study that one of the librarians did with the ucla students last year. >> when i write a book on kend l, i often don't know who the title is or the author, and i read a great book. who was it? i don't know, because you are not picking it up and looking. >> and there is are e search about that. >> and from the retention perspective, we can argue many thing, and the common enemy is not reading, and that is the thing that i am more concerned about that my boss is offer iin >> and in a serious way, the jen of my phone? >> well, it is not either/or and it is both/and. >> should i stop judging myself. >> yes. >> and i think that you need a deeper introspection about this. >> and you are starting to think that the librarians are the saints or something. >> and when you are thinkingf that, and we are in such a busy culture and say that you are reading a particular book, and we will call it a book, but it is really, the format can be a variety of thing, and you are home reading and you can have an experience of a leather chair and you can look at the kendal and you still want to read it and hear it and you want the audio book. so we are often too focused on the format and libraries have adapted to a wide variety of formats over the years, and it is really all about getting you the reading content is what we want to do. >> and to all of you, how is this tension between digital and print media playing out vis-a-vis the design function, and how do you space for one purpose over another? >> well, a lot of what we are doing right now is finding ways to store the printed books or the to collaborate within regions so that we are all collectively going to have a storage facility where they are all available, and that is going the free up space. >> fewer stacks available on site? >> yes. >> and some people make that choice. >> and yes, it is a choice. >> and so if i want ad printed book in a library, it is a day or two to get it from the warehouse. >> or maybe this afternoon. >> i didn't want to come back. >> yes. >> and so in 20 years, we will have a way to get it to you so you won't have to come to the physical library. >> we will use the drones to do it then. so we will be all set. >> everyone else is, why not us? >> and so people say something lost that you cannot browse it on the shelf or touch it, but no library big enough to hold all of them anyway. >> and unfortunately, you answered one of the questions that i wanted to ask. one of the beauties to libraries or the bookstores is serendipity, because you go in thinking that you will buy a book on cats, but it is a coming out buying a book on birds, and that is the beauty and it is go going the go away. so it is the self-subscribing narrative of "the new york times" only sending you subjects on sports. >> i didn't say it would go away, but it is a smaller footprint. >> and the stacks of the serendipity of using this book and not that book and disappearing. >> there is collections of print materials. and it is fascinating that when you are talking to people who use the public libraries they will often say that they love the book mobile because the cheollection is one that i can manage and i like a small branch. i am not saying they don't want a large variety, but we will have collections and the browsing experience is about having some of the material to choose from. you don't need to have miles and miles of stack, because it won't give you the nice browsing experience. we won't let it go, because we care about that, and people still care about it. we mow that ebook reading is leveling off. we knew it would, and it is. and people still want to read the books and browse. again, not either/or, but both/and. >> and are the ebooks going to be a fad? >> no. >> they are just not going to take over? >> they won't take over. >> and when she says another container. >> it is another container. >> and so it is not zero sum? >> no, it is not zero sum or either/or. >> and this morning looking at facebook, and something that popped up that i showed them earlier, destroy the myth that libraries are no longer relevant, and if you use the library, please share. is it that dire? there is something going around, and that is why we did this panel tonight. is there any threat to libraries? why would a librarian put this on facebook? >> we are a passionate people. [ laughter ] >> we started to talk about the library, and it a has a fundamental brand which is books. it works to the positive and unfortunately to the negative, because people start to say, well, we don't need to have these warehouses of books because everything is on line. we are starting to see that because as we discussed the stacks, but the fact is that information is changing at a p rapid rate and libraries and certainly libraries and professionals will better e equip the individuals to navigate the complexity of the information and so yes, we can get rid of the storehouse full of book, and that is true, but we should not get rid of the space that allows us to do different things with the different formats of information. that is fundamental to the economy and the democracy and learning and everything. >> and susan, no threat at all to the libraries and the willingness to fund them by the public. it is all good, and we are all copasetic? >> if the libraries are good to speak over them. >> and why are we having this vent? >> well, u i think that it is a very good question, because as i mentioned earlier on, the librariy funding is something that public doesn't understand, and when they have to make choices, they need to be informed and also it is difficult. i think that, you know, it is really going to be library funding at the particularly the local level and the public libraries are funded probably 90% locality and it is what we are doing locally to make the argument at the local level and retain good funding. >> how is public surveys showing public support for libraries. is it constant or a steady overtime? >> it is, i think steadier. and we had a difficult time in the recession, but everybody had a difficult time, and we have kol back to more stable funding since the recession. i also think that in many public libraries around the country as well in other types of the libraries, too, local funding both private, friends, groups, foundations and libraries have begun to be more engaged in fund-raising and private fund-raising to help to augment the public funding, but we have really a achieved a steady state after the recession. that is hard for everybody. >> and susan parker, is there not a, you know that there is a worry out tlshgs, there and a s worry that the libraries have the purpose they once did in the digital age. >> there is a trope that people find easy to put in a tweet. >> anybody ever said that to you? >> yes, the guy who checks me out at the same drugstore the same time, and he asked me once what i did for the living and i said it is a librarian and i said, i am so sorry. i said, why do you think that and he said, because you won't have a job soon. i thought for a minute, and i thought, well, maybe you don't think that you need a library, but the fact is that if you are fortunate enough to be able to buy the book that you wanted to read today on al amazon and just vit shipped to your home and potch gnat enough to own your own laptop computer, and fortunate to subscribe to wireless internet in your home, and maybe the libraries are less obvious to you. if you are employed and you don't have to retool yourself for a new career, maybe you think that you don't need the libraries, and so these are the things that people don't necessarily associate with the libraries and librarians are not the best p.r. agents for ourselves. >> well, you guys are pretty good. is there a since, miguel, that libraries may be obsolete because of the digital age and a correct sense? >> i think that simplified understanding of what libraries do or the antiquated idea of what libraries do, and it is about to dismiss things, and when you have something happening between the k-12 or the academic library or the public library, you are much more aware of how vital they are to the libraries. >> and it is interesting on the bond issue. a gentleman who start ad wonderful organization of the digital library of america, john godfrey talks about the nostalgia and the antiquated view that is really in fact, that is the challenge, the antiquated view, and it is not what we do, but how do we are recreate a new nostalgia of the people understanding the amazing and enrichment, and impactful role s ths that we play and hav that as the mindset of the library as opposed to a book warehouse or heaven forbid somebody with the bun. we still have the bun thing going on and we have to get rid of that. and new nostalgia. >> and i like the new nostalgia, but again in the age, nostalgia is driven by texture, and intimacy and feelings, and i don't have a feeling with the kendal. it is, you know, the d digitization of space is minimalist, and it is not a lot of warmth and in a minimalist age, and i am wondering if you are having a tough time making the childhood cozy moments, and new nostalgia that you are talking about and the new digitized space with fewer books. >> by making the spaces that people want to be in, and making them in a comfortable space that you said that the leather chair that you never bought. >> it is a fantasy. >> and if we had one in a cozy space in the library, you would enjoy that, and libraries are creating eco systems within the building, and there are many things that you want to do when you come in, and today, you might want to do one thing, and later on today, you might want to do another thing and to today, be alone with your thoughts and study and some time you might want to meet with coffee and by the way, we decided to put the cafe inside of the library. >> you associate the wider part of it. >> yes, sushi and expresso and make it a place where people want to be, and then that does build on itself. so new library buildings whether they are public libraries or academic libraries or libraries in schools are definitely building these kinds of spaces that facilitate the different thing ths that you do in your d and the different kinds of things that you want to accomplish, and what do you want to create or share, and i think that that is the new genius of the libraries is looking at the space for what it is. i was looking at, and in calgary recently and they are building a new public library and it is a tremendous offering of optimism, i would say if nothing else, and civic optimism about the community, and all of the things that, and all of the people that they want to welcome into the space for all of the libraries that they provide. >> any thoughts on the design and the use of the space? >> i want to go back to the new nostalgia and the space. >> i have some themes and one of the themes is the book authors always have a very fond thoughts of libraries and librarians in particular, and part of it is that they have used the the space to create something new. and one of the things that is starting to happen with the democratization of resources and i see it in my own city of chicago library is that you are looking at the media center to use information resources to produce something new, and the video and whatever it s and they 3d print something else, and they walk out with the new sense of nostalgia to go through the process of creation fundamentally at the library, and so that process of creation is going to replace that sexual thing that we have tradition a ally thought of and we will have fond memories of where i became a e kree creator and the space awe all of the librarians have cu cure yated for me. >> and wow, i can't crack them. do you have a smartie pants answer for me? >> well, milg, no. and susan hildrich, what does a library look like in 2100, assuming that we are still here, we being the united states? >> well, it is going to be here, and you know, what will it look like? it is looking like a welcoming space for all ages, and all types of folks. >> and specifically, what does it look like, and you go in and is there sushi or some sort of thing ss about the use of space and the future? >> well, it is as we said, you will go, and no. it is not, you will have an area over here where the kids are creating. an area over here where the people are doing all kinds of things together. you will have stacks, and you will have some materials, and you will have some electronic materials, and have some movable flexibilities. >> and do the libraries need to be large mer the future, because of the multiplicity of the offerings. >> that is interest, because when you are look at the built future of the libraries, it is an asset that all communities have, and i don't know p h if they have to necessarily get larger, and that depends on the community and they have to be flexible. and p.s., we need to have some kind of cafe, and people love the cafes, and we also need the gift shop to be making pow er areas. >> and can you drink coffee at libraries? >> yes, most of them. if you put ap top on it. that is the important thing. >> well, we don't care about that anymore. >> you are really tough. >> and back in the day, there was a prohibition of it. >> and this is thing, and a culture change for the librarians as much as anyone else. >> and the librarians and you have made the librarians seem to be, appearing to be nimble. are you exceptions or, i mean, come on, talk shit about somebody. >> no, no we are not going to do that and i also am going to take this opportunity to say that we can celebrate the fact that we have an actual real live librarian as the librarian of congress, and carla hayes, first woman librarian and african-american woman librarian. awesome bunch. >> and we heard earlier that -- is there a threat of losing the librarians to new media, to silicon valley. is that, what you are considering to be the offer now to sell out? >> no, not me. >> i am sure that younger ones, but i think that what miguel had said and he is going to comment on this, and the skills that we have had in libraries is really a marketable skill for all kinds of place, and in fact a lot of people who come out of the high school at the university of washington, and one of the challenges is that they could make more money in the private sector, and that could go back to the private fund iing. >> how is that enrollment for the library of sciences degrees? >> i i think it is lagging for a while. >> i don't know if you have the latest figures, but even now the silicon valley say has the expertise is the most masterful? >> yes. >> and silicon valley. >> and broadening of the profession, and a study of information rather than the specificity of the library perhaps. and there is masters of library sciences, but also masters of information, and also people who bring outside skills and blend them into the functions of the library. so we will see a lot of that, an unfortunately, we went through an economic downturn like the rest of everyone, and we saw a downturn in the available jobs and we are starting to see some of those come back, but it is a slow process. >> to the question of of the eve inning in, do you have a future, and all of you seem quite optimistic. >> we have been around for a long time. >> yes, that is true. >> and we are going to stay. >> and it is just about, if i may correct you if i am wrong, to be responsible po the public, and also, the demographic changes i have not talked about, but digital and technological change, and the social needs and the social ills and design will shift, format will shift, and i'm obsessed with you how you get rid of the stacks one day, and they will all be, and i guess i, i guess that there is no reason to worry about the libraries. >> well, there is a reason to worry about the libraries. thankfully, we have community involvement, a we cannot exist solely by ourself, and so, yes, we want the people to worry with us. >> you are not doing a good job the make us worry. >> and helpful to the process. >> no, it is a crisis. >> and i want -- >> we are nothing without all of you, and that is the wonderful way to think about it, because it is a dynamic, and it is not, you know, we don't just stand around on our own. we are of the public. >> and last question, because i think that you have answered all of the questions that i had, and this notion of the bun on the back of the head and the librarian, and, you guys are really savvy, and guys are really good and responsive and so, what is the public's, and is the public's perception broadly of librarians accurate, because you are going to deal with the difficult humans and myself included all of the time. >> well, i will go back to the nostalgia thing. i don't think that the perception is accurate. >> what is the perception first? >> the perception that, well, you know, we are very quiet and unassuming, and we just want to, you know, shelve the books and that kind of thing. who wants to do that. >> yeah, we want to get rid of those books so we don't have to shelve them anymore, but people who are engaged in the communities and for us to be actively engaged in the communities, and we have to be out there getting to know people. we do it all of the time. and to be effective and maintain and increase the critical funding, we must be extremely strategic and political. i think that most of the librarians that i know, they know the communities and know where they need to be and they are seen as key players in the community. and that is where we want to be and where we need to be. i would ask you to respond to that, but unless you have a word, that is a brilliant note and a wonderful panel and w wonderful fun and brilliant and thank you so much for coming. we thank you. [ applause ] >> you guys are good. >> perhaps they have been grilled enough, but now it is time to take questions from all of you. there are two of us going around with microphones, and please raise your hand, and we will come to you, and also, please say the first and last name with the question and it is being recorded by us, and it will be first thing up in the morning and so you can share it with your students, and everyone, and c-span is here so it is nationally broadcast and also up on the website at some point after the election. louis has a question on the right. >> i'm tye, and i'm a published author and done lots of research in the private like to get ti l -- getty libraries and also the university libraries and i have an admiration for the stacks going back to my days in new england and my question is regarding the stacks and the accessibility of space. after going back after a absence of a decade, i was shocked that no card catalog exists. i'm a dinosaur. i saw the cafe and the students in the weird space age hives and when i would go upstairs to the stacks and roaming and finding something by accident since most of the reser arch has led to accidental discoveries, i don't find anyone up there anymore, and so my question for you as the librarian of the university research library is what is happening socially to student life if students are not interacting in those stacks. >> well, the research library is one of 10 libraries at ucla and most of the time the undergraduates prefer to be in the undergraduate library which is the powell library and another thing that you are u talking about is the amount of funds that it takes to renovate a library space to make it less than 50 years old looking is a lot. and so our money ran out on the second floor. so there is -- [ laughter ] so there are three additional floors that we would love to renovate. the if we renovate it to have the right access and power and people can work comfortably, they will be there as they are this the library, and a lot of it is just trying to make it functional enough, and they will be there but as we said earlier, right about an hour from now, they will be more people up there, and it is a time of day thing. yeah, no question. when you are thinking about some of the, and i think about some of the libraries that i used as a student, and i have would really rather not see that ag n again. so it is a slow process unfortunately. >> next question on the left. >> my name is brandon barney and i have two questions. i read on the benjamin franklin wiki pages that he is the first lending library in america created. is that the true? and if your library was burning, which book would you bring out of it? >> well done. >> wow. well sh, the -- [ laughter ] >> well, the free library of philadelphia is the first, and there is going to be discussions of this, because boston has that claim, too. >> yes, boston does. >> and i am shure that benjamin franklin was doing the right thing there, and i think that -- man, that is a tough question. i would not take out a book, but i would go to get the fine drawer and take that out [ laughter ] >> so much for burnishing the image of the librarians. >> well, not for my personal e use. >> oh, my god. [ laughter ] >> that is terrible. >> i think that most librarians would struggle between their own favorite book and the book they would find the most useful to their community of use ers or something, so it would be this impossible -- >> it isle really impossible, and we have a very significant special collections of the library that i when you ask that question, i just started to freak out and probably won't be able to sleep tonight. if i have to go to sleep there, and get out as many things as possible. it is like your children. >> next question is on the right. >> i am not sure that i have a question. i wanted to say thank you, and first of all, i, you know, came tonight thinking, wow, yeah, what is going to happy to the banks and the libraries and things like that. but the truth is that i'm a public schoolteacher and i can't tell you how many times a week i have to tell my students that you can go print that at the library, and you can type that up at the library, and they don't have the resources at home. and so we are talk about the kids k-12 and i teach high school, and so i wanted to say thank you for a place, and i don't know what i would say to the kids the if they say, i don't have a printer at e home. i don't have a computer at home. that is important thing, and i don't know what we'd do if we didn't have that. i don't know where i would tell them to go. and so thank you, and i don't know if we have comments on t t that. and i did not think of it until i got here tonight. >> that is a great comment, and we did not really talk this evening about the role that libraries play in providing access to the internet and other resource, and so many of us here have our mobile device, and the wireless at home, and so much that we don't think of it, and it is 20% if not more of the various population s ths that d have access to the internet. it is a critical role that we do and also in most of the libraries in california, they are lucky to have good access to very robust internet, and so that the people can do what they need to do and when they have the broadband access, and it is a critical role and one of the reasons that we are surviving is the broadband access. >> next question on the left. >> leslie farmer, and i know some of you folks. so i have a couple of comments and founded on what susan just said. i think of the libraries as civic safety nets, and not only do they consume information, but produce it. i teach school librarianship, and one of the things that our students do is to have the kids create the books, and those books they join the library collection. so that, it is, you know, become then parts of their contribution to the library that continues onwards. and also, just to mention that in cal state university long beach which is where i teach, we did renovate and the students are using all six floors and so thank you very much, and so there is tons of stacks, and we have compact storage and lit take you five minutes and not a whole afternoon and the starbucks is in the library [ laughter ] so, the question that i have, because they said, make shure that there is a question. is what do you think in terms of the library education and you are saying, wow, the librarians will go into industry, and have you considered that maybe they are bringing the librarianship and they are sort of like moles into the business and other areas where there is information professions? >> could i just jump on that quickly and i am shure that we have comments. but i began teaching graduate library students at the university of washington, and they just came for their orientation, and one of the things that was absolutely inspirational to me was that most of the kids were there, and the students were there and they wanted to make a difference in the community, and so whatever the community is be it public, academic, business, the fact that students were coming to make a difference in the comm e community inspired me to be a good instructor and mentor for them. >> i think that the value of the library education continues to be the shared value of the presentation, and it is where we develop it our freedom of equity and access that we had heard in the previous comment. but in school libraries or the private libraries or the industry and certainly, there is information that expands and becomes more available. hopefully the people will think about the importance of those things as we see things moving in very different directions. >> it is a kind of amusing to some of us who have been around for a long time when google thought that they invented met ta data and discovered searching. yeah, they were really excited about it, and we were like, well, you know, all of these geeked out kids were studying the stuff a long time ago. i think that, you know, now that more people understand it. i never knew what metadata was and probably everybody here has heard that word, so teaching information skills at the graduate level can lead to librarianship and kit lead to maybe making, i don't know, heaven forbid, google or the better search better. >> google search on the right. >> i'm noah smith, and so technology has been changing by leaps and bounds every year, every decade and two main examples are the digitization of the books and the coming advent of the virtual rele al ti. so with the changes of technology kept in mind, do you think that there is still a strong need for books in the physical form, or as the future moves on, and should libraries see more as safe spaces and community centers? >> well, a lot of us are cop nexted to the physical object still and the printed book is going survive, but it is a convenient format for the distribution of information. so i think that is going to continue to be important. one of the great things about the libraries and we talked about them as a space for providing fundamental technology service, and the access to the internet or any other thing, and people forget that libraries and whatever environment they are usually the first spaces to introduce new technology into the communitiesp. so 3d printers have been widely distributed through the libraries and we are starting to see more libraries distributing reality tools and other types of thing, and so we balance what is on the fringe ahead of it, and adoption of the consumers and also our traditional values in a printed book. we can do both. it does not have to be either/or. >> next question on the left. >> hi. i just want ted to thank you -- i'm e jody and i am a librarian from san diego county and i drove up for this, because my librarian is hovering in red right now on the librarian nerd meter is definitely is on red. and so i would like to know how fines and they address things like that stereotype that most of the public has about libraries, and also about it does impact funding in certain ways. i know that in our system, it does a little bit, and finally what the digitization of the materials that impact is going to the have on both the public perception as well as our funding, and i mean, i don't want to get too specific, but we have a cap on the fund in budgeting and so as long as we can do that. but we have a fine-free day, and a lot of libraries can't do that, and i wondered what your thoughts were. >> in terms of the fines, this is interesting, because i will have a discussion with my students about the library fines. we no that he the fines, fees, whatever, they are serving as a barrier for a number of users, particularly youth. we see it particularly when we are working with thele school district -- the school district and trying to create different barriers and these fines are one of them. and when you talk about the responsibility, it is a laminated card and do you want to take that away from the particularly our young people? the monetary implication depending upon the jurisdictional setup, sometimes the fines are going into the general fund and the city may like it, but it is no loss to you. and so i this they it is not about the monetary loss, but it is much more about the policy discussion about the fines, but i think that it is a hot topic in libraries today and a number of libraries are starting to look at the fine structures and possibly e lliminate them. we really do want to create and open up access. i was not sure about your question about the digitization and how it are related to the fines. >> sorry. in our system the books will automatically clear off of so that if more digital items are checked out that will affect the bottom line at the end of the fiscal year, but i understand how those funds can get broken up, but hopefully maybe the public's perception for needs for fines and why that's such a punitive part of their library experiences and how that would help that perhaps? >> you were talking about the laminated card of responsibility. perhaps you could talk about that. fines might be the whole notion to responsibility, right? >> well, my mother -- one of my earliest library memories are losing "where the wild things are" and my mother losing her mind about where it was. but it opens a dialogue with other administrators who start to understand that libraries are about access and can restrict that access and we're about equity and it can disenfranchise from public libraries, i think they are best served by being an open dialogue with voters and any number of people and balancing the need for responsibility and the need for community assets that what is owned by the library is owned by the community and we have to have a contract among us about the responsibility for all of that so it's a complicated discussion. >> it's not just library lines, fines in our kmuncommunities ar also under discussion, we are discussing eliminating fines for students and faculty as well because it can be a barrier and i think that shining a light on mechanism for libraries if people understood that the fines that you collect actually contribute to your bottom line that that's a source of your funding, that's crazy because then you kind of think okay that might have made sense at one time but that has to be revisited, so the way that you fund your library is more people forget where they left the book and that's kind of a reverse kind of logic that doesn't work anymore, so that's really important. >> but practically speaking what's the incentive of turning the book back on time? >> you would have some kind of a fee or responsible for the cost of the book. >> to replace it. >> that's worse than a fine. >> well, you have that any way, if you don't bring back a piece of material you have a replacement cost. the fines also can lead to difficult customer service experience and. to have some ideas to address some of those events that libraries have like in a classroom let's say where they will show a wonderful film and there's also the bathroom issue and then there will be some people that smell very strongly and they have the right to be there, what solutions do you have so that people don't not go to those events because the rules of conduct or the help you can get doesn't address that kind of issue? well, you know, it's interesting that -- >> finally. >> -- that you bring that up in the setting of a program. that's challenging but often an issue that we have to deal with particularly in urban public libraries and what my philosophy has always been is that if an individual, another customer or patron comes in then often we will counsel the individual to try to get a shower, so that's more of a one-on-one type of thing and when you're in a public program, i don't know seating change, i don't know, seating change, but it's challenging when you're in a group setting. >> this gentleman -- i know. >> next question on your left. >> i'm david kippen. >> oh, yeah. >> boyle migheights, thank you. how are you with the best funded library systems and best friends organizations contend to concentrate in the neighborhoods that need them least and what can better funded libraries and districts do for libraries often not so far away that aren't quite so lucky? >> so, i keep -- one of the things that i keep worrying about is income equality, and as a growing divide between rich and poor and it becomes interesting that we're starting to see that similar divide in cities and city services and so we have this sort of divide across things so i don't know if there's an easy solution for it. with talking from outside advocates that look at our system and share their little advice, they are hard pressed to understand as to why as a network of libraries we are not more -- if your funding tru structure -- i want to thank the city of west hollywood and congratulations on five years. this program wouldn't have happened without them. thank you to our pan lists traveling near and far to be with us tonight. they will continue to be at our reception. everyone is invited you can ask them for questions and thank you for c-span for repocording tonight's events, have a fabulous night and thank you. [ applause ] this afternoon on c-span 2 the senate returns for votes on two, president-elect's cab nat nominations, retired general james mattis and john kelly for homeland security. on saturday it's the women's march on washington include gloria steinem, among others, our live coverage picks up saturday at 10:00 a.m. on c-span. this weekend c-span's city's tour along with our comcast cable partners will study the history of harrisburg, pennsylvania. paul -- offer of lincoln scandalous secretary of war talks about one of the most prompt figures of the 19th century. >> in many ways they should talk about the age of simon cameron. this is a man who's political skills were undeniable -- > what makes this convention so special, it was the first time that there was more than one candidate being put forward for the nomination for the presidency of the united states. >> and pennsylvania capital preservation wilson jason takes us on a tour of the state's capitol. >> there's only about a 15-20 year period. this probably would have been built in the commonwealth of pennsylvania 1890-1910. we were at the height of industry, height of capitolism. everything was being made in pennsylvania. c-span city tour

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