Transcripts For CSPAN3 Cold War Jazz Diplomacy In Africa 201

Transcripts For CSPAN3 Cold War Jazz Diplomacy In Africa 20170225

For influence. So in that context jazz really comes to the forefront. We are thinking about why that guy is running around in the congo and why they are traveling to far flown places of the world like pakistan and south asia. What are they doing there . Well talk about big ideas. I want to talk about this. Who is that . Armstrong. Yes. You were probably hesitant to say. You know who it is. There he is. You cant miss that smile and that gaze. You know, he gaives people that gaze when he is talking. Probably americas most prominent jazz musician during this whole period. Certainly when it starts and also before that. He already toured europe commercially and he was prominent figure but just American Culture generally. And so before we get into unpacking this image the reading was from a different book than this. It is kind of extract this part that deal with africa. You got jazz and the cold war in africa. The rest of this book blows up the world. Fabulous book. I recommend it. It is going to talk about what they were doing everywhere in the world and how they fit in in Foreign Policy agenda and how they perceive their role in the whole thing. So we can turn to this image here. We can probably spend 30 minutes talking about whats going on in this picture here. You probably already noticed the kind of beached lawn share he is riding in. It is improvised litter. He is riding on the shoulders of some native or traditionally dressed men. You see, he had been in tour in 1955 excuse me, 1960. He came to the french portion of the congo and played for foreign dignitaries and when he crossed over the river and former belgium congo he was treated like a king. This is how they perceived him to be. They said hey, we are going to carry you on as though you are a king. You can see he enjoyed it thoroughly. It was sponsored by pepsi and pepsi is saying things like hey, you like sachimo. You like pepsi. It was a kind of sponsored tour just not by the state department, but still, his role as jazz ambassador was already well cemented in 1960. So why is he in the congo in the first place . Certainly the state department wanted him there. Why is congo important . I dont know if you got a sense of this but congo is were rich in minerals and in particular the uranium. After 1945 it becomes kind of important to National Security interests for both the United States and soviet union. Right away it becomes the center of attention for the u. S. And soviet union. And more than just that it was in 1959 where belgium said we are giving you that independe e independence. Youre going to get your independence next year. As what happened in other parts in africa, when they leave it leaves a power vacuum or at least kind of the availability for other influences orlando beganic leaders to rise up. People sort of organizing Political Parties and guy who came to the forefront it was just a couple years ago which kind of tells you he met with sefl war. It is a section of the belgium congo. They wanted to be independent separate from the new state of the congo. And so he is confronted with having to deal with this because they were rich if congo was generally. And so it looks to the United States and says hey, i need your help to kind of bring these guys back to kind of crush this re l rebellion and bring it into the new state of the congo. The United States for their part is like i dont know if i really want we dont know if we want you to have complete control over that. Those are the kinds of ideas that are circulating in terms of the congo. They would have much rather instead of out with his drive to unite the congo. He said it was probably his most fatal flaw. He said you arent going to help me. Lets see if the soviets will help me. The United States says, oh, threat. Its a threat if this new government is going to sort of align with the soviet union then thats a problem that needs to be rectified when they assassinated him, so i dont really need to know for you to see that kind of conflict into which these African American ambassadors were stepping as kind of the face of the United States in africa, kind of putting the best foot forward even while the United States Foreign Policy was doing something praps a little bit less than savory talking about the cold war context. You cannot think about these traveling throughout the world let alone africa without situating that firmly within the cold war. There is other con tooek cont. There is no surprise that you have African American musicians in africa trying to best face ton United States. There is also context of vietnam which is going rather badly for the United States. The mood has soured about u. S. Foreign policy generally. It put some of these on rather awkward position to feel like they are defending u. S. Foreign policy so thats the paradox of this whole thing and context of these jazz ambassadors. It is important to think why are we looking at africa . Why not say the middle east . They were doing it too. I think we can look back again and retrace a couple of steps to think about why africa was so important to this cold war. Why jazz . Why not say an american composer, why not put that face of America Forward . Why jazz . And so theres issues there that are really important to the story that well unpack. Think about how the tours began and why. Looking through the lens of a couple of these musicians we can start to understand how not only how the state department saw their role in the whole thing but how they perceived their role in this mission of spreading kind of the american image and garnering good will for Foreign Policy. I it adds a strong layer of complexity congress was ticked. Many times over these 20 years of having to fund or at least these requests to fund is really complex tours. What did it all amount to . To think about the end of the story we can look back at how some of these jazz musicians were remembering their role. Okay. So the context, the cold war, you cannot extricate these. You have goodman. He was one of those big band jazz leaders before world war ii and very popular then. Here he is in moscow, red square, 1962. An american in red square in 1962. It should start sending off bells saying oh, why is that happening . Why is an american in the heart of the soviet union at whats perceived to be the peak . Whats going on on either side . You have cuban missile crisis. Yes. The cold war almost becomes hot. Absolutely. It is one of those things. Go ahead. [ inaudible question ] yes. This is happening because they agreed to have cultural exchange. You have soviet symphonies to show us what each other was about is what that was intended to do. Go ahead. You have kind of tieing into the cuban missile crisis this idea of an arms race and Nuclear Proliferation . It is not just arms race but also a space race going on. And sent americans reeling like how can they possibly do that . Then of course not just the space race but the race to the moon was on just as much as the arms race and kind of positioning missiles and other things. Absolutely. One thing that may not be as close at hand as some of these other high profile items, you know the fallout of this, you knew about the berlin wall. It is because of this tensions have mounted. U. S. Tanks pointed at soviet tanks in east and west berlin. They said okay. Well build a wall and keep you guys separate. Tensions have gotten high. Thats in 1961. So literally in the middle of those big events in the cold war you have goodman trying to play his jazz for russians who frankly love the music. This is you know, jait is a good example its fine. It is a little bit suppressed. Thats whats going on in terms of cold war. Also theres sefl rights con civil rights context. Its no surprise the montgomery bus boycott is followed immediately by armstrong trying to go out there and say hey, look how cool america is. Look how cool jazz is. Look how, you know, how purely american this art form is. You should come along with us, right . There is no surprise you an African American musician. It is something of a mess and at the same time you have guys like this 68 traveling in Northern African fielding questions about how can you be supporting the United States when this is going on across the world . Thats the context of all of these jazz musicians. You cant separate them from why the state department was sending them out there. Okay. To backtrack a couple of steps, think about why africa . You know why in terms of Natural Resources and especially the movement throughout the continent. Descending on all of the countries and saying hey, yes, align with us. Well send you cool stuff. You can be our friend. Thats a really simple way of thinking about it. We know why africa and we remember that africa was the contested cold war spaces. It is all of the conflicts throughout the world onward. It includes a lot of civil wars in the 90s and 200s. You have lots of conflict that were immerging in the cold war. I think this bottom one may be more telling about what the u. S. Was doing. This is involvement from 1945 to 1989. These countries shaded in black are places where the cia was operating from 95 to 100 of those years. You can see congo and ethiopia and middle east earn countries, big big big presence for the cia trying to work against this soviet influence. There are these other kind of countries where the cia was operating for a period of time. And so not only did they want to win the war of influence in africa, the u. S. Was also worried about losing principally because of civil rights problems they had at home. They were worried they could cause the u. S. To lose that cultural traction and to kind of lose the good will for america entirely. So into that the soviet union sends jazz musicians. Why not american composers . Why jazz . It is what americans thought about the new way of thinking. They mastered the art you know this song, of course. Zblo so the soviet union, for as stingy as the United States has been the soviet union was kind of very loose with funding the arts. They have funneled lots of money into supporting orchestras and supporting the arts. The soviet union the theand so its very clear th difference between classical and jazz. The state department saw Something Special in jazz and something they could really use. What is uniquely american . What is so american about jazz music that the state department would say yes, you go out there instead of rock bands . What makes jazz american . [ inaudible ] okay. So it had roots in african cultures. It is something musicians knowledged. The state department was kind of like, yeah. You know everybody. This is american music. I think the musicians knew a little different like youre suggesting. The official line was jazz in the world because its america. [ inaudible ]. Say it again. [ inaudible ]. I would say that. Go ahead. [ inaudible question ] you see this . It is very interesting to the freeness of the United States. You should prefer our model to theirs. What is freeing about jazz especially for African American playing in africa no less, huh . Like how does it represent freedom tok a jazz musician playing in pakistan or any where else . It is going to because of whats going on in america. Also they are traveling the world playing fun music while their brothers and sisters are getting impressed at home. It is such a great point. He was playing together this band. They are experiencing freedom many of their counter parts at home never get to experience. It wasnt lost on then, the novelty of what they were doing just as much as they were saying this whole experience is freedom in its essence. So kind of to tie your two thoughts together, but the actual musicians, you know, they felt the freedom, you know, to deviate or not to deviate but to agree on the basic structure and have freedom on how to express themselves through their music. Okay. And then so we understand between early jazz and modern jazz and what each represented for the state department and for the people who were hearing these forms throughout the world. Here is an example of early jazz. I guess this is before world war ii. It is kind of a characteristic that are preworld war ii forms of jazz. You envision it being played in the 1920s or 1930s. These big orchestras and that was very characteristic with these early forms of jazz. Into the 60s jazz kind of changed a little bit. Guys who ahere is a little bit. It made modern jazz to so appealing to so many people. So just thinking about music structure you have a time signature but dave, he is working and has all sorts of crazy time signatures seeing this new form of jazz in the places where they were going just as much as africa. So what then is the ability or what if youre, you know, an iraqi and youre hearing that kind of music, whats the message that the state department wants you to hear or might be conveyed by that new kind of jazz music . It certainly sounds different. Theres a different sound to it. Usually it has a lot of pep to it or at least a lot of movement. Thats true. I think it communicates the idea that we were talking about, this new free form we were talking about, kind of words we were talking about. It is something people are drawn to. Okay. Yeah, the kind of freedom that represents. If there is still other kinds of forms of expressions, but, you know, if this is to contrast the Classical Music to or to jazz generally to think about early jazz to modern jazz this especially had a lot of relevance and potential lets agree on kind of a basic melody. We are all doing pretty awesome stuff and it is really really really a big key factor too, the freedom jazz is supposed to represent. It wasnt lost on the state department. It certainly wasnt lost on the people hearing it throughout the world and particularly africa. So we are talking about the state department. The big question is why did it start to begin with . In 1954 president eisenhower discovered he had something of a race problem on his hands. It was no secret america had tarnished the image of america in the world. A lot of people saying you guys have got problems domestidomest. Really its no coincidence gillespies tour of all of those places, south europe, middle east and south asia got approved the same month. Civil rights is tipped off at the same time saying yes, we need those guys to go to africa to kind of put a good face on the United States because our image has been tarnished at home. It tipped off two decades of state department sponsored jazz tours. And then right away you can see kind of the integrated nature of the band. You have basses, drummers, saxophonis saxophonists, you know, traveling together and living together. Thats the kind of image the state department wanted to put forward. They wanted to say hey, look, this is what we are. Not the stuff you hear about back at home. This is the image of america they wanted to portray, a positive image of everyone getting along together. Lots of state department motivation. We are see that they had rather Different Reasons for going along with this thing. They knew that they were being sent by the state didnt to garner good will, but you can tell what they wanted first and foremost was a chance to play. Thats what they wanted to do. These guys, they knew very clearly that this was something that would have been literally impossible as a commercial tour. Even with the state department sponsorship and money it was almost impossible to get a decent piano let alone one that was in tune. The tale on this whole thing is enormous. They knew that this was something they were never ever ever going to get to do. So first of all a chance to play they saw this as validation of not only their art form but americans. Africanamericans for whom jazz had been sidelined as lowbrow kind of culture and then suddenly the state Department Says we want you to go and be our ambassadors in the world. And they go finally someone gets it, someone appreciates jazz for being great music and a great art form and they appreciate me, an africanamerican, for being, you know, capable of being that face for the United States in the world. And on top of all that as these cured develop and these guys spend some time in africa they Start Connecting the dots between the jazz they had grown up knowing in the United States and the roots of jazz in African Music and in african cultures. So already as soon as these tours start you start seeing these kind of diverge iing motivations for both the state department and the musicians they were sponsoring. So looking through the lens of a couple of these musicians we can kind of get a more a better sense of the complexity that they brought to the table. The state department would have been happy with these guys going out there saying jazz is awesome, america is great, but the musicians werent willing to rest on that alone and the state department didnt foresee the connections they would make with their roots. Louis armstrong. His first trip to ghana in 1956. First time in africa. He had traveled on a commercial tour in europe a decade before but in 1956 Louis Armstrong goes to africa for the first time. And hes playing for the ghanaian people, with his band. And in the crowd he sees a wornlgs woman, a ghanaian woman who looks just like his mom. His mom had died 20 years before and he sees this woman and in the middle of a song Louis Armstrong stops playing and he goes over it to her and with this ghanaian woman that looks just like his mom in front of him he says to the crowd, i came here or i came from here way back, at least my people did. Now i know that this is my country too. From that very first interaction of Louis Armstro

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